#i want to do a whole arc that's just them robbing this bank

[bardnuts]

big fan of the vibe in here

[deadsetobsessions]

Snart Jr.

Lovely prompt by @stealingyourbones in her long prompts list, in which Danny Phantom meets the Rogues of Central City! This will have multiple parts, I just haven't written them yet.

Disclaimer: I know very little about Captain Cold and Mirror Master despite having watched some of the Flash. The general vibe I get from Flash is that Flash just really cares about his rogues as evidenced by how he talks to them and doesn't immediately one-shot them like I'm pretty sure he could do. And that Captain Cold is a snarky asshole that just wants to steal things and follow his plans as planned? Tbh, the whole mini-arc/episode with him just felt like Snart was trying to coordinate the world's riskiest group project. He was so done by the end lmao

"Huh. That's new."

Danny hovered an inch off of the ground, having just been spat out by swirling green portal. He was going to have to get back to the Zone later to hot potato Skulker through a couple of portals in revenge. He had a math exam he had to study for, dammit.

Danny sighed. Might as well see what's happening. The portals rarely lead somewhere boring, and Danny was bored. He floated further in, form going intangible and invisible as he passed through thick but insulated marble walls. See, Jazz? He could totally plan ahead. He's also learning that he could probably rob a bank easily, but Danny would never.

"Never been spat out in a bank before," he hummed, eyes flickering on the numerous forms of cowering people in the lobby. The goons scattered about don't see him, but it would take another ghost to even detect his presence so it was to be expected. He moved further in with little hindrance and soon touched down onto polished floor behind two incredibly suspicious individuals.

"What-cha do-ing?"

The two figures, currently and obviously robbing a bank, whirled around in surprise. Their respective weapons whirred to a start before they stopped, baffled by the meta teen standing there with his white hair waving about and innocent look pasted all over his face.

Leonard Snart knew instinctively that the kid was so full of shit. He'd bet his entire plan on the fact that the kid knew exactly what kind of shit he was stirring. Still, Snart was guilty of a lot of things but direct child-endangerment wasn't ever one of them.

"How'd you get in here, kid?" Mirror Master raised his laser pistol, ready to distract and divert the kid with threats of violence- which Snart glared at him for- or with his hall of mirrors that he'd run to.

Danny shrugged. "I walked. If you guys didn't want me here, you should have guarded the place better."

"They were supposed to," Snart drawled. He cased the kid. Teen. The kid had a weird halo effect, that seemed to draw the eyes to the stylized letter on his hazmat suit. The kid was young. Meta. Non-hostile. "You trying to stop us?"

Danny shook his head. "Nah. Came from the Ghost Zone so 's really non'a my business. I was just being nosy."

Snart gave a curt nod and nudged Mirror Master back into cracking the security measures.

Mirror Master scoffed. "What the hell is a ghost zone?"

"I mean, it's pretty self explanatory, right? It's a zone where ghosts live. Hence, you know, Ghost Zone." Danny did a little jazz hands (oh, yeah, he was definitely gonna get Jazz to make that joke sooner or later) for emphasis.

Snart paused for the slightest bit before continuing with his task. Did ghosts exist?

"...Did the Flash send you here, kid?"

"I'm not a kid," Danny scowled, walking right up to them. He got enough of that from his own Rogues, thank you. "And what's a Flash?"

"The Flash, kid." Mirror Master corrected, shoving monitors and PC's and expensive looking office chairs into... a mirror dimension? Danny shrugged and rolled with it.

"Who's that? Your boss?"

"Local superhero, not our boss. You're not from here," Snart quickly deduced as a small smile wormed onto his face from successfully cracking the security without setting off an alarm. They'd have ten minutes before the system cycles the access codes again and flags the fraudulent ones. That should be enough time.

"Superhero? Are they fast? Actually, where is here?" Danny glanced around at the now bare security office like the Flash would show up.

The guy in green and yellow took everything not nailed down to the ground. Danny respected that, even if he kind of wanted to stop the robbery. But he's not really supposed to interfere. That would be uber rude, since it looked like the guy in the fur jacket seemed like he had planned everything precisely.

"You're in Central City, kid. Did you take a wrong turn trying to get to Keystone or something?" Green-yellow guy snorted.

"Gonna be real honest with you, I've got no idea where that is. What state are we in?" Danny followed as the pair rushed to the safe doors. He could offer to phase them through but no matter how flexible Danny's morals have become over the years, he was going to draw a line at actively helping a person commit crime.

"Kansas. Do you teleport? Are you a teleporting meta?" Snart asked, eyes intense as he both glared at Danny and pressed an ear to the safe door.

"Nah, I wish I could teleport. Getting to school would be so much faster. Kansas? Huh, I've never been."

"How lost are you, kid?" Mirror Master incredulously paused from robbing the packages that were delivered to the bank.

Danny shrugged. "Oh, I'm Danny. Who are you guys?"

"Captain Cold. That's Mirror Master."

Danny shifted as the safe clicks open. "So, uh, are you guys the villains here?"

Captain Cold shot him a weird look. "We're actively robbing a bank, kid. That should be obvious."

"Also, you're acting real calm for a kid speaking to two of Fawcett's best super-villains." Mirror Master chimed in, laser-ing off locks on deposit boxes and shoving cash and stuff into his mirror dimension.

Danny padded in after them. "Eh, you haven't shot at me- not even on sight- yet, which is more than I can say for law enforcement, so you're pretty chill in my book."

Captain Cold snorted, pointedly taking his freeze gun and breaking off a large manual lock. "I believe it's my job to be the chill one. Plus, we don't kill. The Flash would be up our... business if we did. It's not worth the trouble."

"You can say ass. I've heard worse."

"Not from me, kid."

Danny hadn't had that kind of consideration from anyone in a long time. Even if it's a bit... mother-hennish, the halfa couldn't find it in him to be annoyed. "Ah, okay. Well, you also haven't kidnapped me or tried to stop me from following you, so..."

Mirror Master shoved a giant painting into his dimension. "You haven't tried to stop us; it'd be weird trying to stop you."

"Makes sense."

"Heh. You're alright, kid. Though... who's kidnapping you?"

"My fruit loop of a godfather. It's a thing," Danny avoided the searching gaze like a pro.

"Hold this." Captain Cold said suddenly, giving Danny a massive dufflebag.

"Wait, what?"

Captain Cold began stuffing the bag with cash and once the money in the vicinity (not that much) went in, he said "Go look around. Having another person in here is a risk so you might as well make up for it."

Danny's calling it. Captain Cold was full of shit. The guy's a big softie. Danny smiled sheepishly and agreed. Danny circled the place, pointing out expensive looking stuff- "for fun" and not because they were nice to him- when he felt the tell-tale zaps of an anomaly in Clockwork's domain.

"Move!" He shouted at the two villains, both of whom dove out of the way. Instinctively, Danny threw out his gloved hands and iced the floors, instincts bristling at the incoming danger. His jaw dropped as a blur encountered the ice and went ass over tea kettle onto the floor, unable to stop its own momentum.

"Oh shit!" Danny uttered, eyes wide as the blur slammed into the opposite- reinforced- wall with a pained shout. The stopped person was wearing red, with a lighting bolt motif all over their uniforms. That implied speed. Speed implied "The Flash." Danny knew a hero when he saw one and he just iced him. Shit.

"What-" The Flash groaned. Mirror Master and Captain Cold gaped.

"OhmyancientsI'msosorrygottagobye!" Danny shouted.

"Hey, wait, kid-!" Captain Cold shouted. Danny ignored him, going invisible in a panic and sank into the ground, mortified. After thirty seconds of self-hatred, he zoomed out and away. Danny held his head in his hands as he flew back to where Amity was...

Only to stare down at the empty plots of land where his city was supposed to be. Danny shoved a hand into his chest and pulled out his phone.

[No results for Amity Park. Did you mean "Amity Arkham"?]

"What."

Any research he did after that only turned up a Jasmine Fellona, a budding neurobiologist in her field, and other people that were adjacent to the people Danny knew. But nothing, nothing from Amity Park.

"Oh, yeah, we're definitely not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy."

---

As the Flash stood around to keep an eye on the hand-cuffed villains, he couldn't help but ask.

"So, uh, Snart. Did you... get a kid?"

"What." Snart asked, incredibly done with this shit.

"You know. Snart junior? With the ice and everything?" Flash gestured at the un-melting ice that covered the floor leading into the safe. "I mean, I'm not thrilled you're pulling your kid into a life of crime..."

"No."

"Wait, you had a kid and didn't tell me?" Mirror Master asked, mildly offended. "That was your kid? No wonder no one shot at him!"

"He's not my kid." Snart gave Flash the stink-eye. "And don't you have a couple of baby sidekicks running around?"

"C'mon dude, you're so obviously fond of him. It's okay, you don't have to hide it." Flash avoided the topic... in a flash.

"Can someone arrest me right now so these idiots can be removed from my vicinity?" Snart snarked to the approaching officer, jerking his head to point at the beaming Flash.

"You and me both, buddy," Officer West sighed.

---

One trip to the zone and a stressful conversation with Clockwork later, Danny was found in his keep, smacking his ghost head into the ghost wall of his ghost keep. Danny would unleash a Wail if it didn't have the nasty habit of bringing everything around him.

Apparently, he got "Amity'd," a process which meant Amity spat him out like an over chewed dog bone and refused to take him back.

"That doesn't even make sense! I left there a bunch of times! And came back!"

"The city has decided that it was your time to leave, Danny." Clockwork spared a wane smile for the curled up boy-king.

"I have people to protect there! My entire life! My haunt!" Danny yelled, breaths that he didn't technically need coming shorter and shorter. The neon green of the Zone whirled in and out of his vision in a dizzying shudder of anxiety and incoming panic.

"It wasn't your haunt, I'm afraid. The city nurtured you as a young spirit- thus shared her haunt- and has decided that it was time for you to... leave the nest, so to speak."

That stopped Danny's panic in its tracks. "Are you telling me she NightVale-d me? Some kind of involuntary coming-of-age bs?"

If he weren't on the edge of hysterical laughter, Danny would take a moment and proudly say to Mr. Lancer that he had paid attention in class.

"...Yes."

"Fuck." Danny dropped his head down in despair. His head made a loud thunk. The bag of cash he'd accidently made away with sat innocently at his feet. Further proof that it wasn't some nightmare he'd wake up from anytime soon.

---

Danny slumped over the desk, exhausted. Technus had lent him a ghostly hand and hacked into government data bases to re-establish his social security number and all the other dumb bits and bobs that he needed to establish his identity because Amity was an actual ghost town. Ghost to reality, ghost to real life. Ancients, Amity even had their own data network, which he couldn't access outside of Amity itself. This meant that Danny couldn't even call anyone. Ugh.

"I gotta find a place to live," he mumbled to himself. Danny, despite knowing that he needed to do things, did not move for another ten minutes.

Then, as his phone alarm went off, buzzing on the table. Like... Clockwork... Danny sat up straight and wiped all traces of wallowing self pity off his face. The people in the library- students- gave him solemn nods of solidarity. Danny nodded back and left the library.

He wandered around Fawcett City, somewhere Clockwork had recommended he stayed. With Clockwork, recommendations tended to be life-important (plot-important?) orders. Danny liked the place, really. It gave off the weird and settled "what-the-fuck,-Box-Ghost-did-you-have-to-destroy-the-mall?" vibes Amity constantly gave off after the ghosts started coming through. He thought he even saw a talking tiger! Awesome.

"Hey, are you new here?"

Danny looked down. His reflection stared back at him.

Did he have another kid? Did someone clone him again? Ancients curse you, Vlad!

"Uh- yeah."

"Oh. Do you need help getting around? I was born and raised here all my life, so I can totally do that!"

Oh thank the Ancients, this wasn't another Dani. Just a weirdly similar looking kid.

"You know I'm a stranger, right?"

"I don't think anyone helping Nanny Mae pick up her oranges would hurt kids," the kid said archly, but with a grin so like Dani, it made Danny miss his younger sister.

"Okay, you got me there. But still."

The kid sighed. "I know how to be safe, thanks. I'm Billy!"

"Danny. Nice to meet you."

"Okay, Danny, where you off to?"

"I'm actually trying to find a place that'll be cheap to rent." He's sixteen, but Danny could totally pass as eighteen. "I'm thinking about moving to Fawcett. It's nice here, with all the ambient magic and stuff."

This got him a wide-eyed look. "Do you use magic?"

"Something like that."

"Cool."

Danny took in the considering glint in Billy's eyes and decided that it was future!Danny's problem. Present!Danny was currently occupied with trying to stay off the streets. That giant bag of cash he'd accidently absconded with would be helpful and Danny felt kind of bad... but his growling stomach had chased that away quickly.

"This way!"

Danny shrugged his wavering morality off and followed the kid, shouldering his new and stolen duffle bag. If anything happened, he could just go ghost. It wouldn't be the weirdest thing that's happened in this city, Danny made sure to check.

"Have you been by the zoo?" Billy began to rattle off his favorite details about the Fawcett city zoo as he wove around the city.

Danny didn't think he'd actually have to go ghost.

"Not yet, actually. Is it true that there's a talking tiger there?"

"Yeah! Tawky Tawny! He's my friend!"

"Awesome."

[princess-of-the-corner]

ML Plot Points: Bengala

I said I might elaborate in another submission and immediately after that I thought of an entire plot, character arc, theme and conflict. Fuck it. 

The Tiger villain is a Spanish woman going by Bengala. Referencing both her animal (bengal tiger = tigre de bengala) and the flashy, bright nature of her powers (sparklers and flares are called “bengalas” in Spanish). She showed up two weeks after the S3 finale by robbing a bank. She knows how to power down her Clouts at will so she uses only the absolutely necessary amount of force and how to use the clout from any part of her body to propel herself. Judging by how she fights, she’s also an adult martial artist, both being able to use her powers more than once and knowing how to use them for maximum effect.

Personality-wise, Bengala is not just a lightning bruiser, she’s also smart. Whenever Ladybug uses Lucky Charm, Bengala figures out the plan she’s going to try and takes steps to ensure she cannot be taken down with it. The second she sees Viperion she makes sure to target him in unpredictable ways because with him she’s in trouble (she thinks the snake’s power is to see the future, but the point remains). She’s good at using psychological warfare to trip up the heroes to make them distracted and get in each other’s way to win a fight. 

Légalsatian and Pierre Pietrain both try to capture her and fail. The heroes try to capture her and fail. Shadowmoth throws akumas and sentimonsters at her and they fail. She seems unstoppable.

During her next episode, we learn more about her. She’s a second generation Spanish immigrant called Irene whose parents went to France for work. She has a job at the gym where Nora goes to as a personal trainer, but it doesn’t pay a whole lot. After their house burned down in an electrical fire last year, they’ve been having financial trouble because their insurance company screws them over. Then, because it wasn’t enough, her father got fired and scammed by some random prick who promised him to help sue his former workplace. Bengala and her parents are living in a crappy, tiny apartment with very few possessions. Her criminal activities are supposed to help with that.

Initially, her robberies are very quick and without spectacle. Go in, threaten the bank tellers, get a small but significant amount money, escape. The superpowers mean she doesn’t need to think very hard about it, only needing to make sure people cannot trace the money back to the banks, but she’s still careful and does as little damage as she can get away with. At least at first.

As time passes, as she defeats heroes and villains alike, she starts to get cocky and she starts to show off a lot more. It’s no longer about getting the money, but about proving she can do whatever she wants, whenever she wants. She starts attacking the heroes so she can get their miraculi, attacking the akumas to prove that she can, absolutely wipes the floor with the fighters the Order throw at her (I cannot bring myself to see the Order as competent or smart). It’s no longer about having enough, it’s about having more and beating the people who stand against her, both because of arrogance and because of the stress of having everyone. against her. In her civilian life, her parents notice the change and try to help her. At some point, she is handed an easy way out. A way to fix her financial problems and help her parents at very little cost, but she refuses because the solution isn’t one that she figured out. It isn’t enough. Her parents find out and are rightfully pissed.

In the mid-to-late season two parter, after she beats an akuma-sentimonster duo, the heroes decide to just throw every temporary holder at her, not at once, but spaced out. Every time she gets close to winning, another set of two to three heroes come in to fight her.  Beating them doesn’t work, distracting them doesn’t work, causing collateral damage on purpose to get them off her back doesn’t work. Eventually, she gets tired from fighting for so long and the transformation finally gives out. She is promptly arrested and even her parents think it’s the best outcome.

I originally picked the tiger miraculous for this because I wanted a miraculous that would be difficult to take from someone (a bracelet and four rings attached to each otters by chains are not easy to take from someone in the middle of a fight), but the more I thought about it the better it got.

Irene works as a foil to both Marinette and Gabriel.

To Marinette: 

Aesthetically, she contrasts in colour (red and black versus purple, gold and black), motifs (spots versus stripes) and size (small and lean vs big and bulky). Thematically, Marinette’s arc this season is about being a leader; knowing how and when to rely on people and knowing how to use their talents. Irene always works alone, breaks down her opponents to know how to beat them and is gradually pushing the few people who care about her aside.

To Gabriel:

Aesthetically, they are both large, imposing people who wear purple. Power-wise, Shadowmoth works from a distance relying on other people to do the dirty work whereas Bengala is a close range fighter who refuses to take help form other people. Backstory-wise, they are both trying to help their loved ones form a terrible situation and are willing to do whatever they have to. Bengala, however is more like canon S5 Gabriel in that her motives are not even remotely close to justyfing her actions. She’s a spiteful control freak who threw away a way to get what she wanted because she wanted to solve the problem herself. In the end, even the people she claimed to be doing this for think it’s better that she got taken down. Gabriel realises their similarities after the Sentibubbler incident (halfway through the season) and, seing where that path leads, refuses to sink that low again.

-

I LOVE HER.

[symphonic-scream]

So uh here's some Okujima slash Makoharu from my Chaos Arcana swap

They're were classmates back in middle school, not really friends but two quiet kids who'd spend time together. Little Makoto had the biggest baby gay crush on Haru, so she was hella awkward around her as well

In their first year both became very isolated due to Kamoshida's meddling. Haru wasn't getting close to people out of fear that he'd stay true to his word and use his info to destroy her dad's company, and everyone was avoiding Makoto to avoid similar rumours spreading about them

Makoto sees Haru as they pass in the halls over the years and. Just like with the other girls she knows Kamoshida is tricking, she wishes she could do something to put an end to it, to get rid of that hollow look in their eyes

And she does get her chance, when an odd, tall, thin boy comes to their school. People say he killed someone, that he robbed a bank, they say lots of things. But he wants to help, and is the first person to stand by her side

Now one thing about Makoto is she's smart. Very, very smart. However, all that goes down the drain when she gets all bullheaded towards what's right and makes the dumbest fucking decisions ever, throwing herself in the way of danger

Like when she hears a soft voice begging someone else to "stay away, no- no, please -" instinct takes over and she's sprinting down the halls, bursting into the PE faculty office and shoving Kamoshida into his own desk

For the first time, someone has come to Haru's aid, realized the hell she's been living in and come to smash a hole in the ceiling so she can crawl her way free. And sure, all three are going to be expelled over it, but- for the first time in years she doesn't feel like just a doll

Though. Neither Makoto or Yusuke want her to help them take him down. They're secretive about their methods, and is that a bird in Yusuke's bag?? Oh well. If they won't let her repay them then she'll follow them and force them to let her help

And so a Phantom Thief team is born. Haru- or Eros- is always super diligent about using healing spells on Makoto -Knight- just, walking up to her after a fight and laying a gentle hand on her arm or shoulder, giving her a soft little smile

And gay disaster Knight turns bright red, every time

They make a good team, even deciding to keep going after Kamoshida. There's more people they can save, more good they can bring into the world

(okay time to backtrack a little bit for a small intermission of Makoharu moments I have thought up that happen during the Kamoshida arc)

On rainy days, Makoto is often seen without her leather jacket, instead wearing a damp flannel shirt over her uniform shirt. At the same time, Haru can be found with said jacket draped over her shoulders or head, protecting her from the rain

Likewise, some days up on the roof, the two will be seen sharing a Bento. Some days Makoto would have neglected to bring lunch while avoiding her sister in the apartment, or Haru simply forgot while doing other tasks while her father was away

(anyways. Back on track. More under the break I worry about this one maybe getting too long)

Okay let's get Madarame up in this house! So this is when Futaba joins the group, and instead of being an artist, Madarame is like. A software developer or he claims to be one

Madarame Tech is unveiling a new ai help thing for their devices that they call "Wakaba". She is set to be unveiled at a local department store, and in the mean time they're showing off their new game console and PC line and shit. So like. Their mini E3 kinda

Futaba sees the gang on the subway and is caught taking photos of Haru- in reality she liked her aesthetic and was adding it to her folder of inspirations for like. Aesthetic lines for the tech shit I guess?? Idk. However she's a little shit and says she's interested in a. Different way.

This kick-starts that whole plot and starts making Makoto simmer. She doesn't want to see Haru get used again like before, so alarm bells are going off. Especially since she's accepted her feelings have resurfaced and has been trying (awkwardly) to make her move

Okay and then the "nude painting" scene. In exchange for not turning them in to the police right away for accusing Madarame, Futaba claims she wants to just. "touch some tits". Claims she wants to become a hero in her Discord server. I like to write Futaba as asexual so she's bluffing hard, thinking they won't say yes

She's mainly focused on Haru, who seems like she's going to agree in order to save the mission. And that's when Protective, Stupid Makoto steps in

Long story short Makoto and Futaba are playing "boob chicken" until Goro (bird boy) picks the lock and Madarame comes home and reveals yeah he's been using Futaba to finish her mom's programs that he killed her for haha whoops

Anyways they fall into the metaverse and they're about to see Futaba awaken as Python with her persona but first, gay

When Knight lands on the ground, Eros runs over to her. Shes been worrying the whole time, talking Yusuke's ear off about how she hopes Makoto is safe and doesn't have to actually do anything and shit- anyways she checks her over to make sure she's fine, calls her stupid for volunteering, Knight tries to defend her stupidity but oop-

Eros kisses her

...and kisses her again

Goro: are they seriously like, practically making out right now?

Yusuke: this is beautiful

Futaba: what the hell is happening

And bam they're gay from there. Makoto climbs through Haru's window some nights after sneaking out of her and Sae's apartment, ditches classes early to meet Haru at her class to go get lunch

Makoto is a little awkward always, but she's affectionate and making heart eyes always. Maybe a little handsy but she just. Shes feeling loved and loving so it can be excused. Haru also is not complaining so the only complaints are from Goro. And Futaba. And Hifumi. And Kasumi eventually.

When everyone goes to Hawaii, Makoto and Haru both volunteer to go on the trip as third years and are excited about sharing a room in Hawaii and spending time together

...yeah that doesn't happen. There's a room error and some teachers have to join student rooms and. Since Sae and Makoto are sisters. Sae joins her and Haru in their room.

So instead of a romantic getaway, Makoto has to share a hotel bed with her sister who steals the sheets and snores and keeps her up all night

But she and Haru do cuddle on the beach a bit. Throw a towel over an umbrella for a spell, allowing Makoto to catch up on her rest while holding her gf

And then of course the Sacrifice fake death bit. Emotions, angst, more kissing, classic stuff

Oh and for second semester Makoto has a whole crisis about realizing she wouldn't be able to get into college with Haru like she wanted to if she didn't clean up her act a little and starts wearing proper uniform. Her grades were still good so she has a chance

The day she gets her acceptance letter, the same day Haru gets hers, they open them together and they're so fucking excited cause they both got in, holy shit. They sign up to room together and man they're excited to share a dorm

Anyways yeah. Uhm. Them. Please ask me more about this I wanna talk more about this

[randomstupidchaos]

Mega List of Writing Asks #2

So. Almost 1 year ago, while procrastinating, I wrote up the first Mega List of Writing Asks, and I feel like it's time for more. Yes, this is 100% me procrastinating again (this time on editing; it's just not working out yet today) and also hoping to get some asks of my own.

I wrote these up with my 1st list open in a different tab and went through and tried to make sure I didn't do any duplicates but I am only human, haha. I've numbered these so if anyone chooses to reblog both lists they can get asks from both. :)

Note: this list is best reblogged with WIP titles and character names in the tags. If you reblog this, please send an ask to the person you reblogged it from! I will do my best to send asks to anyone who reblogs this.

Characters:

Pick a character. What is their biggest flaw? Does this cause problems for them in the story?

Pick a character. Assign them a new hobby, one that won't necessarily be mentioned in the story (and isn't one that has already been mentioned, if applicable). What draws them to this hobby?

Who is your favorite non-main character and why? If they had their own story, would it be the same genre, and what would their character arc be like?

(Character) has a terrible nightmare. What is it about? How do they react?

What was (character)'s favorite toy or game when they were a child? Do they still have it/a space for it in their life?

Character most likely to climb Mt Everest (or 'verse equivalent)

Character most likely to rob a bank

Character who would have conquered the world if not for The Horrors

Character who would take a bullet for a stranger

Character who is just, like, so so weird (and why)

Do you believe characters are tools or parts of yourself?

What is one character from any kind of media (not your own) that you wish you had created? Why?

Do you have face-claims or cast your characters before writing?

Do you have any drawings or art of your characters? Please share (if you're comfortable with that).

What is one aspect of (character)'s backstory that people should know but maybe doesn't get much/any screen time in your story?

Pick a story (author's choice). Tell me about your protagonist. Tell me about your antagonist.

Setting (For Original Fiction or AUs):

17. What is the scale of this story's setting? Can someone travel the whole place in a day or two or is it on a galactic/universe/multiverse scale?

18. How do your characters travel?

19. On a scale of 'you are currently walking through the same universe' to 'human brains go mad trying to comprehend the differences', where does your setting fall in terms of proximity to our reality?

20. Are there horses? Or horse equivalents? Do they have names? All horses are so good. I just want to learn about your horses, friend.

21. What is the weirdest/tiniest detail you have researched for your setting?

22. What have you spent the most time researching for your setting?

23. What is a plothole you have found in your 'verse logic? Have you resolved it?

24. Do you have a map of your setting?

25. Do you have any sections of your writing that describe your setting? Please share a snippet!

Plot:

26. What was the first plot point you thought of for (story)?

27. What scene was the hardest to write for (story)?

28. What scene was the easiest to write for (story)?

29. Do you have scenes that might be considered 'fluff'? Or can you find a reason for every scene in your story (character development, information, mood, theme, etc)?

30. Have you cut any scenes from (story)? Why?

31. Are there any scenes you want to/plan to add to (story)?

32. How do you develop plot? Is there a particular method you follow (snowflake, etc) or do you go with the flow?

33. If you write multiple drafts, does the plot change much between drafts?

Music:

34. What is (character)'s theme song?

35. What is (story)'s theme song?

36. Have you ever heard a song for the first time in a public space and KNOWN it was relevant to your writing? What song was it and what spoke to you about it? How did you react?

37. Are there any particular bands/musicians you gravitate toward with regard to your writing?

38. If your story's soundtrack had to stick with one musical genre, what would it be?

39. Do you have a writing playlist? What are some of the songs on it?

40. What is one scene you associate with a specific song and why? Did you write with that song playing? Is it mentioned in the scene?

Misc:

41. Do you title your chapters or just number them? If you use titles, how much do they reveal about the content of the chapter?

42. If you write multiple drafts, what are the things you usually change in new drafts? (Plot? Description? Character arcs? Etc.)

43. For (story): Find any or all of the following words and share the paragraph they're in: yellow, cold, pain, sky, wall, smile

44. For (story): share a section you are particularly proud of!

45. What is the theme of (story)?

46. What is the weirdest writing ask you've ever received?

[sirjuggles]

Worm Reading - Part 3, Arc 3 Agitation

This naming convention seems a little repetitive but I assume at some point I'm going to post an update that doesn't coincide with the same Arc number and then I'll be glad I did it this way to keep track.

Notes I took along the way while reading Arc 3 (this one got long sorry):

I forgot to mention last time, but Rachel's dogs are all Good Puppers who listen to their momma and I hope nothing bad happens to them! (something bad will almost assuredly happen to them and I'm gonna be unhappy about it when it does)

I keep forgetting the Undersiders are just high school kids. Gah reading YA fiction is weird beyond a certain point, because I remember when I felt like "yeah it makes sense for kids this age to be having adventures" but now I'm at the point of like "When I was five years older than you I still lived with my parents and borrowed the car when I needed to go somewhere, you are a child what are you doing robbing banks??" (that's more an issue of lived experience on my part but still)

Taylor keeps talking about "oh this is just an undercover operation I'm not really a member of this team of villains" girl you are PLANNING A HEIST ROBBERY. You spoke to one of the big superheroes once and he was a little skeptical on how you looked like a bad guy. The Good Guys do not think you are a Good Guy, and nothing you have done would convince them convince them otherwise!

Ooh ok we get some info on the Protectorate Youth League. Aegis seems basic, though tough to deal with in a hand-to-hand fight. Clockblocker is MUCH more interesting, because I firmly believe any time shenanigans can be broken with the right application. Vista is a reality warper, and even worse a YOUNG reality warper, so the potential for horrifying power is there. Kid Win is a nerd on a flying skateboard, I hope he has dumb 90's catchphrases. I'm actually really curious about Gallant, he's got a relationship with Glory Girl who we already saw is not to be trifled with, plus emotion-manipulating blasts are a great story mechanic for adding chaos. Shadow Stalker VS. Grue nemesis showdown I am totally here for it! I already kinda don't like Brian so I hope she's super catty and causes him a ton of trouble.

Worldbuilding tidbit! Manton Effect! So most powers aren't able to affect living beings, unless it's a power that specifically affects living beings? That seems... arbitrary. That does remind me of a question I had earlier about Alec's power, and how delicate his control over it is. So far he doesn't seem interested in things like practice, but I wonder if given practice he could, say, control people's fingers with enough precision to make them type out a message? Or, more to the point, if he could send a nerve signal to send someone's heart into a lethal rhythm or trigger a seizure?

Have I mentioned I don't like Brian? It was implied that he's abusive towards Rachel, and beyond that he's just got an all-too-familiar energy of "I know you want me to like you" and he is smart enough to use it to manipulate the people around him. When Alec was training with him, Alec pointed out that the example Brian was referencing didn't happen the way he said it did, and he just brushed it off. He seems to be in the habit of reinterpreting events the way he wants them to be, in a way that is often referred to as gaslighting (though isn't technically in line with the original usage of that term).

Oh Taylor talking to her dad before going out for the night was heartbreaking. God this is so hard for both of them, but that conversation was actually kind of a step in the right direction? Shame it had to be brought about because it's actually a cover story for this whole new bunch of dangerous trust-violating stuff that's probably about to blow up in her face.

OH SNAP SHE'S MEETING ARMSMASTER I DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING

#ArmsmasterWasRight

Hm who are the two murderers on the team? I seem to remember Rachel basically blew up her foster home when she bailed, so that wouldn't surprise me. It could honestly be any of the other three... I think Lisa has the bloodthirsty streak but I don't think she's physical enough. I don't like Brian and I could see him killing someone in the dark. Honestly though I suspect it's Alec! He's been noted to have a sadistic streak about using his power, and we haven't actually seen him in action.

God Taylor's gotta come up with a better cape name than Bug. It's so bad.

Holy jeez I cannot overstate how horrific what she just did to Clockblocker is. Bugs under eyelids and in nose arghhhhh no no no no no.

Whole fight scene is great, I will refrain from commenting on every bit.

Yeah I definitely still love Tattletale. Her work on the GG sisters was beautiful.

Interlude 3 - Wards: Hahaha after all that chaos nice to see that the corporate heroes don't just get to brush off all the property damage they caused.

Huh. Aegis actually seems cooler than I thought. His power basically makes him an invincible punching bag, but he seems to do a pretty reasonable job of making leadership calls for the team and also brushing off holes in his lungs and detached retinas.

Hm. There's some of the stuff around the weight of obligation on Panacea that I was expecting. Yeah. That sucks and there's not a good answer.

I keep going back and forth on Gallant. I see him as sort of a Bruce Wayne rich handsome playboy who's also a superhero. Except he's ALSO got awesome emotion-reading powers. He was a little awkward with Panacea, but I can't decide if he's trying to flirt with her or just trying to be kind. Feels like he's got a bigger role to play here, but I'm not yet sure in what capacity.

Side note, I do sorta love the implication that there's this big fancy high school where all these superpowered kids go on the other side of town from what we've seen so far. I bet there's fanfic out there of the social scene drama that goes on at that school that we just don't see in Worm. What would life have been like if Taylor had been able to transfer over there to get away from her bullies? Might she have fallen in with the Wards? This all could have gone so different....

[kurt-wagner-official]

Post #112: UXM 228-229

The framing story for this issue is a letter Ali wrote to her friend O.Z. (maybe he was in her solo series? idk maybe I'll read that someday) back when the X-Men were in San Francisco. She talks about how Logan pushes her and is never satisfied, which pisses her off because a) she never wanted to be a superhero and b) she already was a solo hero. She doesn't see that those are the two reasons Logan does push her so much; he needs to know that her heart's in it and she can work with the team. When she sees a newspaper article that O.Z. is apparently now a werewolf murderer who was arrested in Florida she hops on a plane, refusing any help from her team. Logan follows her anyway, and as soon as the flight lands he finds someone mysterious tailing them. They search for clues and find O.Z.'s dog Cerberus hiding in his impounded truck. They then go break O.Z. out of jail when some assassins show up to kill him. He explains that he was chasing some drug dealer (he's a bounty hunter) with his dog, but the guy had some mutant bodyguard who took him down. The police arrested him and all the bite marks on the drug people from the dog made everyone think O.Z. was a werewolf, which seems like a stretch. Anyway, Logan says he recognizes the description of this mutant bodyguard and he's a Soviet spy, just before Henry Peter Gyrich shows up. He offers to drop charges against all three of them if Logan finds the Russian, who was an undercover agent working for Gyrich until he went rogue. The trio tracks him down, but in the battle Cerberus kills him. Gyrich gets mad but doesn't do anything, and everyone just leaves. We flash to the present to learn that this whole story was actually O.Z.'s flashback as he read Ali's letter in a bar and watched the news report the X-Men's death. This was a weird issue. The timeline and framing were unnecessarily confusing; I think Claremont wanted to do this story earlier but was prevented by the event schedule for Fall of the Mutants. Ali's arc in the book has been about accepting the team as her family, so this story flashes back to the middle of her personal journey, which is a little jarring and makes it fall a little flat. Also, the emotional core of the story only works if you read her solo series, but to be fair I can't blame Claremont for me not having read it. And if he was gonna do this flashback, it shouldn't have been the first issue post Fall, especially with how rushed the ending of the last issue was. That was a lot of complaints; I did like parts of this issue, especially the dynamic between Logan and Ali. The push and pull between them highlights both Logan's strengths and weaknesses as a leader. He understands what Ali needs and what the team needs from her, but he can't get that point across to her without pissing her off. It's why he makes a much better lieutenant than leader.

Our next issue opens in Singapore with an introduction for the book's newest villains, the Reavers. They're a gang of cyborgs who rob a bank and murder a whole buncha people. Claremont has shifted focus a few times in the last few years from one enemy group to another, and it's been an interesting progression. For a while, our biggest villains were Freedom Force, then the Marauders, and now the Reavers. We went from a government run team to a gang of psychos that were still following specific orders with loftier goals in mind and now to the Reavers, who have no greater purpose and just run around hedonistically stealing and murdering. The X-Men's world has been getting darker and more chaotic and their enemies reflect that. The Reavers are based in the Australian outback, where they've enslaved an aboriginal mutant named Gateway who creates portals and never talks. He sends them wherever they want on the planet, and in return they don't destroy his homeland and attack his people. They have a big violent party to celebrate all their new money, and begin to convert a woman they kidnapped into a Reaver by wiping her memory and giving her cyborg parts. But just then, the X-Men show up out of nowhere and attack. Seeing another person having their memory wiped and body tampered with sends Longshot into a rage we've never seen from him, throwing knives into people's eyes. The team, with Ororo back in full power and Peter in a new costume, which is just a speedo, make quick work of the Reavers, although a few escape. Logan and Anna want to execute the rest, but Roma shows up again to give the X-Men another gift- the Siege Perilous, an object that can rewrite someone's life to make them a whole new person. They offer the Reavers a choice between a rebirth or death, and they all choose to enter the Siege Perilous. Roma also fulfills their next request, to send the Reavers' prisoner (I still haven't learned her name) home. Roma tells them that if they ever want a happy ending, the Siege will give them one, and for as long as they choose this life, they'll be undetectable by cameras or magic, to help them keep being ghosts. And then she's gone, leaving the X-Men to their new home. This issue was... okay. I love the outback era, although unlike a lot of people I don't think it's near the best part of the Claremont run, but I don't love the way it starts. After a flashback issue, I was hoping this one would dive into the characters' thoughts on their death and rebirth as phantoms, and on Ororo and Peter's recent reclamations of their powers, but there was a short time jump and almost no inner monologuing. I do like the Reavers, but not as much as the Marauders, so I wish we could have held them off till after Inferno. But it was a solid establishing of the new status quo from an enemy's perspective; the X-Men show up out of nowhere and vanish as quickly as they came, leaving only the whispers of the victims they saved as proof of anything happening. It's very cool and myth-like without losing the ragtag feel of the post-Massacre stories.

[whats-9plus10]

Here’s a top 10 list of my favorite Gary moments based on absolutely nothing but my personal opinions.

10. Gary’s haircut

Move over Zuko. Gary’s character development hasn’t finished yet. I feel like this signified a whole new chapter for him that we were supposed to see in season 8, but now will hopefully get to see in the movie. Also he looks so good with his little slut strands.

9. Grippy socks Gary

Gary helping Hank and Dermott was cute. That’s it. It was so damn cute. It was the trio I didn’t know I needed until it happened. Gary was creeping around the compound looking for an adventure, and unlike Al who got roped into Hank’s nonsense, Gary encouraged it. He provided the intel, made the plan, and probably drove them to the bank. Gary crafting was adorable and he looks so good in scrubs. This is an underrated Gary episode.

I also found it interesting that he continued to call himself Viceroy after cutting ties with the Monarch. I guess following a man dressed as a butterfly since in middle school does things to the developing adolescent brain. Gary was still seeing butterflies, literally (although to be fair, those ink blots do look like butterflies).

8. Hero with a number

The original Captain Sunshine has Gary pegged. I don’t know if I would go so far to call him a “hero”, but he is one of the most genuine characters on the show and the people around him respond to that. He made an impression on Shore Leave that later made way for him to join S.P.H.I.N.X. After his iconic fight with Brock, Brock didn’t walk away. He sat down next to him and waited at least long enough to light up a smoke until Gary woke up. Then they worked together to defeat a common enemy. Gary must’ve made a good enough impression on Hank so that he could later appeal to Enrico Matassa to save the Monarch from being shot in season 7. And after robbing Hatred blind for years, Hatred ended up bonding with Gary. Even if it was just for a moment. He’s the nice guy Dean wishes he was. Side note - Gary in only a loincloth and mask keeps me up at night. Why doesn’t this man have more bitches? How has RUSTY seen more action than Gary. I’ll volunteer guys don’t worry I’m on it.

7. Suiting up

Please see my meow meow edit.

But seriously how does Gary just know everything? He knew about Enzo’s, he knew about Teddy at Dunwitch, he made it his job to know what’s good and he’s good at it. What’s more impressive than his physical glow up is how loyal and competent he’s become. He’s a guy that will it handle it. How? He’ll just handle it don’t worry about it.

6. Kano

Amazing. Phenomenal. A masterpiece. Gary as Kano was setting boundaries. He was addressing his trauma. He was competent and cool and he looked so damn good. And most importantly, IT WAS HIS IDEA! The Monarch didn’t want to dress up as his dead dad. Monarch wanted to do the same old “I’ll get you Dr. Venture” schtick. Gary came up with the idea to be bad guys dressed as good guys so they can kill bad guys so they can arch a good guy. Are you following along? Because Gary sure is.

5. S.P.H.I.N.X

God I wanted this to work out for him. This phase highlighted Gary’s main motivation. It’s not to be a hero or a villain, he just wants to be a part of something. His conversation with Hatred at the end of season 5 touches on that. When he was 1/2 of a nameless duo that was good enough for him. Being a leader after 24 died didn’t seem to satisfy him. He pursued a relationship with Dr. Mrs. but was rejected. He tried to follow Brock to the OSI but wasn’t accepted. He tried rebuilding a new team but was betrayed. I don’t know if he knew going back to the Monarch was the right choice, but it ended up being what he needed. The Monarch needed a new number 2 and Gary needed a new best friend. This all led up to his speech in his last scene during the last episode of season 7, which makes me appreciate this arc even more. 

4. Gary breaks the 4th wall

21 and 24 aren’t “invulnerable” despite what the Monarch thought. There are many instances in the show that shows exactly how these two idiots survived. They know the game. Gary reads the comics and watches the movies and plays the video games. And unlike Henchman 1, he can see a cliché coming. He’s a henchman and he knows exactly what that means, and it’s not worth dying for. He’s not the main character, he knows the good guys always win, so he hauls his ass out of whatever situation he’s in and hides so he can live another day. He can practically see the plot unfolding before him. He was competent long before his transformation whether he wanted to admit it or not. That’s why he didn’t buckle his seatbelt.

3. Gary climbs the Rocky Steps

I think we all agree that Gary’s transformation was one of the best developments in the show. He loved and he lost. Then he took a hard look in the mirror and decided to change. Season 4 Gary was motivated by grief. But what I love about him is that it didn’t turn him into a mean, cruel, jaded guy. He got dieseled and went back to the cocoon to make it a better place for himself and for all the other henchman. This was the ultimate taking of responsibility. Something we hadn’t seen in most of the other characters at the time.

2. Gary drives Dr. Girlfriend back to the cocoon.

I know what you’re thinking. Why did op put this random ass scene in the top 3? Because this is when Gary became my favorite character. I don’t care that he fought Brock (I still think it was awesome). I don’t care that he became General 21. When he was babbling about spin art to someone who could not care less, but he was just exited and thought it was cool, and I know he thought going from talking about their failed attempt to paint the car to spin art made sense in his head. It made sense to me. I remember being a kid and seeing this scene and realizing that whoever made this cartoon really understood me. That’s why he was so distraught when 24 sided with Killinger and devastated when he died. When you’re like that, it feels like nobody understands you and everybody thinks you’re weird. It took me forever to realize that a lot of people react similarly to Dr. Girlfriend, annoyed. So you learn to turn that side of you off. Gary didn’t have to do that because he had 24. And even though he had his glow up, that side of him remained intact. It’s one of the best aspects of his character. 

Also because I would play with my Cra-Z-Art spin art toy for hours it’s such a strange specific memory that this scene unlocked for me.

And finally….

1. You already know

Gary in sweatpants sent me through a second puberty. That’s it.

There are so many other moments that deserve to be in my top 10. Gary’s fight with Brock, Gary suiting up after the Monarch’s jail break, that moment at 15 where he just decided to stay with a guy that kidnapped him and work for him for the rest of his life. I’m not exaggerating when I say that I think Gary has one of the best written character arcs ever. I hope we get to see more of him one day. Everyone please support the movie when it comes out.

[dalekofchaos]

It wasn’t all Micah’s fault, Dutch is as much to blame.

A lot of people seem to think that Micah being the rat is what led to the fall of the Van der Linde gang. While it’s true that Micah is partly to blame. But Micah would not have an opportunity if it were not for Dutch’s vanity and pride.

Dutch is the classic delusional leader seen in many stories, novels. His fantasies become more real with each day, battle and somehow they think fortune is right around the corner. Like a gambler chasing the eternal big pot. No amount of money would ever be enough. It wasn't about money. It's was about the chase, the illusion of victory that never comes.

In Chapter 6 is when this all becomes more apparent. A switch went off in Dutch's mind, in Ch6. This wasn't the way HIS story was supposed to happen. Not to HIM. He's freaking Don Quixote, madman fighting knights in his mind and being a hero. It's fucking beautiful character writing and story arc for him.

Dutch has a discarded speech draft in horseshoe overlook that shows he’s always been a self-obsessed politician in context of the gang. He crosses out every line of humility and replaces it with narcissistic martyrdom, and avoids ever giving his audience a moment to question him or the path they’re on. He wants control over people so he can use them to realize his ambitions, and every book he reads in camp has a similar motif that explains why he thinks that way.

There are conversations between Lenny and Dutch, too. Lenny is not a fan of Evelyn Miller and tells Dutch why. Dutch is blind to the criticism. This speaks volumes about the two characters. This conversation made me realize that Dutch is used to peddling his philosophy to people who are not as well read as him; the moment he has to defend his ideas to someone more intelligent he gets defensive and angry. Because he isn't searching for a debate; he's searching for affirmation.

Everyone loves to paint Dutch and Hosea as the perfect partners and even ship them in a gay way. But Dutch doesn’t respect Hosea? Also Hosea was a happily married man. They're supposed to be partners, but he certainly doesn't treat him like one. He doesn't listen to him, he yells at him when he's doubting, coughing or in pain, and he makes him sleep on the cold, hard, dirty ground. He even openly ignores him in Colter, in front of the other men, and rides off when he tries to stop him from robbing Cornwall's train. I'm not saying they don't have a rich history or good moments, but it's a toxic relationship at best. Not exactly something worth praising. If you don't believe me, you can find unique dialogues as the game progresses, verifying he’s lost all faith in Dutch. To the point that he even starts telling other members to leave. Abigail, John, Arthur, Lenny, Tilly, Sadie -- he tells all of them to leave. During a dominoes game we played together he even said, "Maybe it's just me, but Dutch seems to be getting more and more unhinged." And as early as chapter one he told Arthur, "Try to stop Dutch getting all of you killed, because I'm about beginning to think he's finally lost his mind." There are also other conversations where Hosea’s disappointment with Dutch is far more blatant. He basically tells Arthur he’s been disillusioned for a while and wishes the gang would change, but when Arthur asks what they’d do instead of thieving, Hosea says, “I don’t know. I never knew. Guess I could never figure that out, neither.” By this point he’s just so dejected and defeatist because he knows Dutch won’t listen to him. He also goes on a whole tirade about how they’ve become “nothing but a bunch of killers”, which breaks his heart, and during a random campfire encounter he bares his soul and flat out tells the gang he no longer believes in Dutch’s “we’re above the law” philosophy. I feel like Dutch is glad Hosea was killed because the biggest doubter and thorn in his side was taken care of.

I mean this is what Hosea feels about the majority of Dutch’s plans

The moment John put his family as a priority, Dutch saw this as a threat and has been paranoid about John ever since. 

He tried to play the Grays, Braithewaites and Bronte  the same way he’s used Arthur, Hosea, John, Bill, Javier, and even his women like Molly, Susan and Annabelle. To Dutch, people are just set pieces in his life. He cares for them and wants them to love him, but it’s only because he’s a narcissist that needs their support to make himself stronger.

He never snapped or went crazy or turned. The Dutch that drowned Bronte is the same Dutch that had always been there. He was frustrated that he did not have the upper hand on somebody, that someone had played him the same way he plays others, and it’s probably the same reason he shot a girl in cold blood on the ferry and the same reason he shot the girl in the bank in rdr1. In that scene in rdr1, he said something like “you’re the master now John” before Dutch did what he did.

When Dutch isn’t in control, he rages against the world around him. Because as far as he’s concerned, he’s the smartest and most virtuous man around and anyone who opposes him is wrong. And anytime he loses or isn’t completely in control, somebody’s out to get him and play him like a fool. That’s why he turns on Arthur and John, and why Micah manipulates him so easily

Blackwater, going up against Cornwall, playing the inbred families and Bronte is what sealed the gang's fate.

Blackwater. If Dutch had just ignored the ferry job and let Hosea and Arthur handle their Blackwater real estate/tax scam, then they would have made it big with no one dying

If Dutch had just ignored the O'Driscolls and their train heist plans, then Cornwall would have went after Colm O'Driscoll while Dutch and the gang could have either went to Horseshoe without incident or gotten lost out West. Don’t forget it was Hosea who was against robbing that train back in chapter 1 that belonged to Leviticus Cornwall. It was after that robbery when he started sponsoring Pinkertons to find Dutch. If they stayed away from that train, they could’ve shaken off the Pinkertons easily. Hosea was right from the very start. Even before that he was saying that Blackwater robbery was a bad idea.

If Dutch or Hosea put their foot down and requested Herr Straus to stop loansharking desperate people or risk being banished from the gang, then maybe Arthur would still be alive

If they requested the aid of Trelwany to see if the rumor of Confederate gold is legit or not, then they could've realized playing one or the other family was a complete waste of time and not worth the effort.

The moment they got Jack from Bronte, they should have just left Lemoyne and never looked back.

The moment Arthur began helping the Wapiti tribe, he should have never went back to Dutch. Arthur, Charles, Sadie and John should have helped them and never looked back. John would’ve gotten Abigail and Jack out alive, while from some convincing from Arthur, Uncle and Susan would have helped Mary-Beth, Tilly and Pearson leave the gang. 

Even if everything turned out the way it did but Hosea, Lenny and Sean were alive, the gang would be split. Hosea, Susan, Lenny and Sean would have sided with Arthur. There would have been a chance that Hosea and Arthur could have talked sense into Dutch, but Dutch would not want to see that he fucked up royally and costed EVERYTHING, he would stand by the choices he made, even if it meant fighting his own brother and sons.

But no, Dutch needs to feel like this big and important leader. He needs one last take. It wasn't about money, it was wanting to prove that he won and just wanting to be the big man, like Evelyn Miller or all the outlaws that are romanticized. Micah saw him for what he was and was playing him like a fiddle and milking him for all he's worth. It was so easy for Micah to play Dutch and so easy for Arthur Hosea, Sean, Lenny, Susan, Davey, Mac and Jenny to die for the sake of Dutch proving that he is a winner and that he is right. It was never about getting lost out west or even the money or even Tahiti, it was about Dutch wanting to prove he is right and all the doubters are wrong.

Dutch Van der Linde’s pride and ego is what destroyed the gang. Even if Milton did not kill Hosea, there was no stopping Dutch’s path of self-destruction.

[bamfdaddio]

X-Men Abridged: 1981 - the Body-Swap

The X-Men, those body-swapping mutants that have sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them, are a cultural juggernaut with a long, tangled history. We’ve been untangling that history for a while, but sometimes, you really want a more in-depth look. Interested? Then read the (un)Abridged X-Men!

(Uncanny X-Men 151 - 152) - by Chris Claremont and Josef Rubinstein

Emma Frost and her frenemy Ororo Munroe have not been getting along! One fateful evening, as the two quibble away, they mysteriously switch bodies and minds. Talk about your Freaky Friday! What lessons will they learn, walking a mile in one another’s shoes? And will they be able to switch back, or will they stay in each other’s bodies forever? Mutant Monday, coming soon to a cinema near you. Starring: Elizabeth Banks, Angela Bassett and Elliot Page. (PG-13)

For a moment, we’re in a proper period drama: a letter delivers ill tidings!

I love that Kitty’s parents are so self-involved that it took them A WHOLE YEAR to realize that it’s weird that Kitty is the only non-adult attending the Xavier Institute.

I can only assume the mailman interrupted a pool party of some kind? Or a communal shower? I get why Kurt would not swim a lot - all that fur - but did Scott wear that while they were splashing around? Was it a beach volleyball competition where one half got to wear swimsuits and the other half superhero costumes? Most importantly, was Scott’s costume always this tight?

Not that I’m complaining, mind you.

The awful thing is that Kitty’s parents are transferring her to the Massachusetts Academy, not realizing that headmistress Emma Frost is, in fact, a terrible human being. Charles, uncharacteristically, says that changing their minds telepathically is a line he does not cross (any more) and half the viewing audience bursts out in laughter. More importantly, last they saw Emma, she was kind of dead-by-Phoenix, so it might be better there this time? Kitty does a Classic Teenage Stomp-Off and Storm comes to comfort her. Kitty cries that life is unfair (“My parents are only doing this because they’re splitting up”) and Ororo tells her that yes, life is unfair. You just gotta roll with the punches as best you can.

To be fair, bald men are technically all cheek, so it doesn’t matter where you kiss them.

While I enjoy the relationship Kitty has with the other X-Men (Scott gave her a compliment! Logan told her his name!), especially the mother-daughter-bond she shares with Ororo, the whole Piotr-thing always gives me pause. Even if we’re being very generous with age, Kitty is, what? 14 going on 15? And Piotr is… 19? At best? I get why Kitty would have a crush on him: he’s a gentle hunky giant: at fifteen, my teenage ass would have felt the exact same viz-a-viz Colossus’ upper arms. The fact that Piotr reciprocates feels skeevy, though, especially because they’re always treated like star-crossed idiots these days.

Skee-vy.

Ororo drives Kitty to Massachusetts, where her young ward is greeted by someone named Muffy and whisked away for orientation. All seems well. Ororo stands in a parlour, surveying the grounds and considering that they should have fought harder for Kitty. Still, nothing seems too wrong just yet: this Academy just seems very preppy.

Not-at-all-dead Emma takes her cue and jumps out, saying (essentially): “Surprise motherfucker.”

There’s a flash of light, and then...

I’m willing to bet that Emma’s EVIL journal has the following to-do-list: - Steal Storm’s body. - Experiment with her powers. - See how good Storm looks in white. (Leather? Fur?! Both!??) - REWARD: Smoke break.

I wonder if Emma’s plan hinged on being able to body-swap with Storm, or whether any X-Man would have sufficed. Was her original target Xavier? Cyclops? What if one of Kitty’s parents had brought her to Massachusetts, would she have taken Kitty instead?

In a locked cell, Storm wakes up in Emma’s body and is horrified. I wonder why Emma didn’t take any more precautions. Couldn’t the guy who made the freaky friday-gizmo also make a power dampener to nullify not!Emma’s telepathic abilities? Or did Emma count on her victim being so utterly incapacitated by her mind-powers that they’d be driven mad? (This would actually tie in with some of Emma’s later-revealed history: when her powers first emerged, she also got locked away in a padded room because of her madness.)

Emma is not wrong, by the way: Storm can’t get a handle on Emma’s powers. What follows is possibly the sweetest moment in an arc filled with sweet moments:

This arc isn’t drawn by any of the regulars - not Byrne, not Cockrum - but Josef Rubinstein brings his own kind of panache to the pages. I love the way he draws women’s faces: in a story that’s all about women, their faces are actually distinguishable. Kudoz.

Emma, meanwhile, coordinates with Sebastian Shaw to execute the second part of their two-pronged attack on the X-Men. They both laugh evilly in their phones while the mansion is attacked by Sentinels! These androids take out Cyclops and Xavier with some sleeping gas and knock out Nightcrawler, but the rest of the X-Men manage to trounce these robots. Then ‘Storm’ appears! She zaps the rest of the X-Men (and Amanda Sefton), successfully finishing their master-plan.

It’s not entirely clear what the Hellfire Club wants with the X-Men this time, but I’m assuming it’s more experimentation to improve the sentinels? Eh, doesn’t matter! Nefarious Hellfire Club is nefarious.

The real Storm, meanwhile, comes to claim Kitty, forgetting that she looks like the one and only Emma Frost. Kitty spooks and Storm accidentally reaches out, knocking her out telepathically. Whoops! Storm takes Kitty and flees in a car, while Emma gives chase. (How dare Ororo run off with her body, which is absolutely the kind of hypocritical hilariousness we all love Emma for.)

Kitty awakens and jumps from the car, causing Storm to swerve and...

JETSTREAM!? Speaking of which, where are the Hellions in all of this?

Kitty sees that an unconscious ‘Emma’ is about to burn to a tender and moist little crisp and she is faced with the hero’s dilemma: would you save a villain that would never save you?

Emma, meanwhile, has realized the downside to body-swapping: somebody else gets to run around with your body too. Shaw, of all people, talks her down from her anger.

You can’t just introduce a persona exchange gun to the plot WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHERE THE FUCK YOU GOT IT FROM.

My favorite detail is that Emma keeps calling Kitty brat, like she’s some sort of Pokémon-villain.

Kitty, meanwhile, has saved ‘Emma’ and tied her up with a special knot. Storm tries to convince Kitty, going for the “ask me something only Storm would know”, but Kitty’s all: “Duh, you’re a telepath.” Ororo insists, but the thing that clinches it is when she breaks free of her ties without breaking a sweat. That knot was taught to Kitty by Ororo and she’d be the only one who knew how to break out of it.

Storm and Kitty recruit Stevie Hunter to come pick them up and during the ride, Storm-being-angry-mother!Storm convinces Kitty more than anything else:

After all, Storm was voted most likely to say: “If you don’t stop this nonsense immediately, I will turn this Blackbird around, so help me God!”

Ororo and Kitty sneak inside. Ororo even uses Emma’s telepathy to help her pick a lock after phasing through a door. (Kind of funny: Kitty’s still such a neophyte that she can’t even phase with anyone else yet.) Emma, meanwhile, taunts the captured X-Men, presenting herself as the new white queen:

Anybody feel the inclination to point out that the Hellfire Club did this exact same thing last year, except then they tried it with a redhead?

I secretly suspect that the Hellfire Club’s plots always revolve around seducing X-Men to their side and dressing them up in sexy lingerie. (Which: fair.) There’s also a subplot where the guys Wolverine cut apart last year want to exact revenge on him for being made bionic, but eh. We’ll start paying attention to them when they become actual Reavers.

Kitty phases through the locks of the X-Men, freeing them, and a kerfuffle ensues. Emma starts using Storm’s powers, but they grow out of control. Colossus tosses Shaw out of the window - which should just be company policy, really: all Shaws should be defenestrated - where he’s promptly hit by a rogue thunderbolt.

When he doesn’t get up, Emma starts to lose it. The weather goes wild. Storm intervenes, using her telepathic power to help calm down Emma (and the raging storm), but she also manages to get a hold of the swap-gun. There’s a zap, and with a satisfied sigh, the status-quo is restored again.

My favorite implication is that, apparently, Emma decides which school Kitty attends and not her parents.

While this little arc is neither the most iconic nor the most profound of 1981 -- those would be Days of Future Past and I, Magneto, respectively -- I still love this for a couple of reasons.

As a lover of Freaky Friday, 17 Again and the new Jumanji-film, I just have a soft spot for body swap plots. (Hi Psylocke!)

It focuses on the Xavier Institute as a school, planting seeds for the upcoming New Mutants.

It is very female-driven without beating you over the head with it. (Looking at you, Birds of Prey.)

It has three definitive main characters, who all get fleshed out in fun and interesting ways. It starts the trend of robbing Ororo of some of her powers and tossing her into against-the-odds circumstances, only for her to come out on top.

It solidifies the Storm/Kitty mother/daughter (or older/younger sibling) dynamic. Kitty is a believable teenager when it comes to Storm - clever and kind, but also looking for answers and prone to rash decisions - and I love how much they care for each other.

Jean/Storm-friendship-callback, yay!

Emma gets fleshed out as a villain. Resourceful and petty, powerful and vain. It’s no wonder she’s one of the break-out antagonists of the X-Men, because, like Magneto, Claremont is not afraid of giving her depth. Arguably, she is the most three-dimensional of the Hellfire Club at this point.

Yay! And fuck completely sensible plots, if you don’t know what to do with your plot, just introduce a random persona exchange gun. Let’s use it on Xavier and Legion in Way of X next!

[bitch-for-a-rainbow]

Problems with Kara’s Reveal Part 1: Supergirl = Symbol

To be honest, I think the thing that bothers me most about Kara revealing herself as Supergirl to the world (beyond the nightmare of having put everyone around her in constant physical danger. I would hate to be her neighbor. What if someone plants a kryptonite bomb in her apartment? You don’t just tell all of your enemies where you sleep.) is that being “just Kara” kind of derails a fundamental principle of what Supergirl is and what she does. She isn’t just an alien who flies around fighting crime. Supergirl is a symbol. She’s more than a person: she’s an idea. She is a ���beacon of hope”— the show’s own words. She’s steadfast in a way that a single person could never be. Supergirl always has to be more than the person wearing the cape, and Kara can’t always be that, nor does she want to be. 

Trust in Supergirl is very important— the show has had multiple arcs where public faith drops due to an imposter, red kryptonite, or some villain’s scheme. Every time that trust wavers, there are problems. For one, if the lack of trust is due to fear, it’s harder to help people who are more afraid of you than the gunman you’re trying to save them from. For another, if the lack of trust is due to doubts about Supergirl’s ability or a belief that she is vulnerable, THEY HAVE REPEATEDLY SHOWN IT CAUSES CRIME SPIKES. With Supergirl as an ever-present monolith, why bother trying to rob that bank, obviously she’s just going to catch you anyway. Think about the solar-flare episode in season 1, “Human for a day”. When Kara talked down those robbers she channeled her own ‘humanity’ for lack of a better word, but the whole reason she didn’t get shot and die is because the first words out of her mouth upon seeing the gun were “You know that won’t work on me!” and they did know that. They did know, from the moment she entered the building, that it was over. Supergirl was there. No point in resisting. 

Hearing about how Supergirl is just a person, Supergirl has all the same problems you do, and that she has people she’s dependent on removes some of that larger than life, monolithic status. It becomes easier to doubt in her ability. It’s much harder to trust a person with your life than it is to trust an idol. 

Besides, you’re more likely to rob the bank if you think Supergirl is busy with her day job. 

[seikyoko]

I am kinda baffled by the people who unironically say that Yullen is a ship between a 40+ yo and a 9 yo, and say that to people who don’t read/watch dgm and also not providing any context. And I am just like “erm what ?” and I even saw one being like “I don’t endorse pedophilia but yeah basically”

(below is me ranting about how hypocritical that claim is since every argument saying that “Allen” is that old can be applied to Kanda too I just don’t know where to put the read more thingy)

(Now, I ultimately don’t care, it is ultimately a fictional ship between two manga characters and even if that ship contains something immoral it doesn’t actually reflect on the person who ship it unless they attempt to justify it as something okay in real life in order to justify their ship for example  “not actually abuse they’re not hitting them with a whip/the abused one isn’t complaining” etc etc, it’s not like grand theft auto players actually think stealing cars and murdering people and robbing banks is morally okay and normal.)

Although Kanda being chronologically 9 yo and “Allen” existing 35 years ago should be by this logic be problematic in all their ships (except like Poker pair or Road/Allen), I only see it being brought up when people talk about Yullen, it is kinda frustrating

They’re literally, because of the whole confusing age regression/forced reincarnation thing the closest in age to each other.

"Allen” met Mana when he was a 7yo, he did exist as a child and worked at the circus before the meeting, but with how frequently he was beaten (and I don’t think they spared the resources to treat him and he was kept in unclean conditions so it was bound to get infected some day), was starved and overworked, given not warm enough clothes as a disabled really young child, I really don’t think he would have survived for long in these conditions, “Allen” ‘s earliest possible memories as himself had to be when he was 6 years old. 10 years ish before the current arc.

He literally start out as a blank slate (even more clear in ALFOS), he know how to speak and understand human speech just fine, probably didn’t had to relearn stuff like walking/moving/eating/performing other basic tasks all 6yo know how to do, he doesn’t know anything else, he thinks that his parents abandonned him and sold him to the circus, but has no memory of such a thing, it’s stated in ALFOS that it’s something the ringmaster told him.

You can even see how childish and kinda ignorant his thinking is in ALFOS, because when checking up on Allen the dog, he see Mana and the dog performing, and then at the end the audience cheer on them

(it’s Jeidafei’s translation of ALFOS, they have a tumblr of the same name)

Red describe that feeling the crowd feel toward the clown and the clown feel toward the audience as love, but it’s really too big of a word to apply on a crowd cheering on a clown who is doing his job, and certainly not what Red is refering to, it isn’t at all what Red and later “Allen” wants. Something Pasta and teen “Allen” would know, but because Red is a 7 yo with no experience outside of being scorned, he doesn’t have the tools to know.

He is ultimately a really responsible young child, but just that, a child, he has no memory or maturity outside of those 10 years he lived, in the manga it’s seen that his only memories as Pasta are him promising to remember his name (probably to Nea) and Nea asking his name, he also hallucinate a wheat field, but that’s about it.

Now about Kanda, he canonically “murdered” Alma 9 years ago, he is also a blank slate, he doesn’t have the emotional tools to bear/deal with his situation (honestly even an adult wouldn’t, life as a second exorcist was beyond terrible) and couldn’t even find in himself the will to live until that day he laughed with Alma, it’s pretty clear that he’s a child (ex : him asking Edgar how humans are made, him and Alma believing that a dude named Winter is what makes weather cold etc), none of that maturity he should have as someone who was a grown man before. He spend roughly one year at the lab (he destroyed Alma 192 days after that day they laughed together, and some time had passed between his birth and that) so he also has roughly 10 years of experience as a human being

(I wouldn’t exactly call him a newborn though, because honestly newborns aren’t on young!Kanda’s level either, they spend years and years learning how to properly talk and have a conversation, crawl then walk, eating properly, going to the toilets properly and so on, Kanda was already at the level of a 5 yo or so at the earliest.)

Kanda and “Allen” both start out as an amnesiac extremely young child who only know basic universal human things a human child would know (perhaps even less), and have basically 10~ ish years of lived experience.

even if you want to argue that pasta was adult, the whole second exorcist reveal was that Kanda was one too (one that remembers his past life better too).

“but Allen’s body existed before too ! he is actually a 40+ yo in the end !” Kanda’s did too, his brain anyway which is the only thing that matters as far as minds go (unless you believe that you have braincells or memories in stuff like your arm or something and honestly whatever I won’t try to change your mind), the scientists didn’t magically summon their souls from the ether, as seen with them recovering Marie’s body and Alma discovering their former bodies, it’s explicit that they implanted the brains of former exorcists in new bodies, which means that Kanda’s brain existed since past!Kanda was born, who was also an adult since long ago. Maybe even before 35 years ago, as theorized in that post I sadly can’t find where someone point out that past!Kanda died in a wheat field with weird coloured smoke around, which is something that was probably caused by Cyrus campbell, as seen in Nea’s flashback he showed to “Allen”).

Basically, no, Yullen isn’t a pedo ship

[nastyburger]

Is Freakshow/Circus Gothica/Control Freaks going to be a part of your reboot? And if that is the case, are there any differences compared to the series?

it is! i do want danny to have a sorta grim reaper type of vibe associated with him so i feel that episodes pretty integral to that lol.

i havent put too much thought into how i want the events to play out in that episode yet, but one change for sure is that freakshow doesnt know danny is a halfa. he just thinks danny is a ghost whose “gimmick” is appearing human/having a human disguise (so he has no qualms with actually kidnapping a human child to be in his circus lol he literally just doesnt know). he merely goes to amity because he heard rumors of an influx of ghost in the area and decides to go round up some extra performers, danny just so happens to be one of the ghosts that gets picked up.

(rest of post under cut because this ended up being long as hell lol)

freakshow is, however, manipulated into keeping danny’s secret identity after the fact despite not fully understanding it. ghosts in the nasty reboot abide by certain honor codes sorta preprogrammed into them from the moment they form. halfas are a little out of that jurisdiction and dont get that same preprogramming, but the ghosts generally agree that revealing danny’s secret is a no go.

a ghost’s death is a bit of a sore subject, you wouldnt talk about it in any way the ghost doesn’t want you to (which is usually not at all). danny’s secret identity technically falls under this umbrella, he doesnt want humans to know he’s (half) dead and still lives among them. therefore, don’t reveal to the humans that he’s dead and jeopardize his situation! its not quite the same as a ghost momentarily pretending to be human to fulfill something (like spectra or johnny), danny’s human identity is directly tied to his “death” and would be even more so if its revealed so its off limits. the situation is definitely a bit unfamiliar to the ghosts, and its something sorta more “learned” than the usual “i just know not to do this” instinct but they still do their best to up hold the honor code for danny!

freakshow doesnt have the same “ghost envy” as canon because i think thats dumb, but he does still want to play by ghost rules for one reason or another so danny telling him about this rule is more than enough to keep his mouth shut.

one last thing is how the control staff affects danny. danny in the nb boot has a lot of themes of “figuring himself out” in terms of both what it means to be a halfa (in that larger than life where his place is in the world if it isnt with either the living or the dead type thing) and who he is as a person (in the more down-to-earth he is literally an adolescent changing as a part of growing up type thing). one big recurring moral to this character arc is that NO ONE ELSE can tell danny what to be, he has to figure it out 100% on his own. he can have help, and he can have nudges, but it all has to come down to what he decides for himself and what he learns about it. he cant listen to his parent’s biases and what their theories for phantom and what he is, he cant listen to the ghost for what they think is best for his biology, hell he cant and shouldnt even listen to what vlad says about them being halfas most of the time because they have completely different experiences.

danny shouldnt be completely influenced by outside sources when figuring out who he wants or needs to be. the staff in this episode is basically just a very big obvious focus plot point in a very literal sense for this exact moral.

danny does sorta still have free will while being controlled by the staff, and i do mean a little beyond the usual “easier to break out of the spell” kind of thing. i believe monotype-on-phantom had an analysis similar to what im describing here, but basically danny is not a mindless zombie while controlled by the staff. he carries out orders and does freakshow’s bidding for sure, but he still has half a mind and probably carries out orders with more intelligence/thought than a ghost blindly following orders.

for example, freakshow could tell danny to rob a bank and he would do just that. but danny, without orders, would also try to hide his tracks, actually try to steal discreetly as to not get caught. something the other ghosts wouldnt think to do because they cant think! in canon, it seems that he even actually commands the other controlled ghosts in these robberies like a leader. its likely that he wasnt prompted to do this with a command, thats just his leftover free will allowing some of danny’s personality to shine through in the tasks. even though danny would obviously not rob a bank on his own accord, if he did, it would likely be exactly how he carried it out while controlled by the staff.

danny very much has leftover feelings after being controlled, he could vaguely remember making decisions and going through with them. some regrets, some satisfaction, its a whole mess of things intertwining with what he did want to do and what he didnt want but kinda did but also kinda didnt. its all about influence and how especially powerful it is when someone still impressionable is subjected to it like say, a fourteen year old child.

[schadenfredde]

Thinking about reboot Bushroot and wondering how he's potrayed as a character in the Darkwing show. I accidentally wrote an essay so I'm placing it under a read more. 

Both Drake and LP have clarified that he's "technically not a villain, per se" and we know his origin is similar to the original show. Frank has also mentioned being inspired by Twin Beaks and Swamp Thing for his design and personality. But I'm very curious about the decision to not give him a voice and his almost animalistic disposition.

Would he still have been bullied by Drs. Gary and Larson? And have had his funding cut because it was not profitable? I imagine the storyline played out similarly to the OG episode, but I doubt he'd have pulled the same thing he did with Dr. Rhoda Dendron, as Drake and LP likely would not have jumped to his defence that quickly. They've both drank their respect women juice.

Also interesting thought, perhaps Dr. Bushroot was mute from the start, and that unloads a whole bunch of feels when you realise he can finally communicate with nature, the very thing he's dedicated his whole life to.

It kind of makes you wonder what kind of crime he's willing to do if he's hanging out with the Fearsome Four, and why he was willing to help Taurus Bulba. Perhaps stealing resources for his plant friends? Finding ways to reverse his mutation? Liberating plants from being tested in labs? Or even helping nature take back St Canard by making it overgrown with plants. Maybe he's portrayed as an anti-hero instead of a villain in the series, as he was absent from the episode in Beware The B.U.D.D.Y. System when the villains were robbing a bank, but fully committed to swarming St Canard with vines and plants and attacking Gizmoduck when he tried to get rid of them. Would there have been a redemption arc planned for him, like Tad had originally wanted had DWD not been cancelled? I wish DW and LP had tried talking to him but perhaps there just wasn't enough time.

[9worldstales]

In reply to this post @woodelf68 said:

The jr. novel having Thor say that Loki stole the throne twice is ridiculous. He was lawfully given the throne when Odin was Sleeping and Thor banished, as he was next in line of the succession. And he offered the throne to Thor in TDW and Thor refused it! What was he going to do, abandon Asgard? Loki was the one who stepped up and took on the burden of rule, and yet got none of the credit. And Thor was the ‘savage, chaotic, lawless’ one when he stormed Jotunheim, breaking the peace treaty and gleefully slaughtering Frost Giants. The only time that description fit Loki was after he’d been tortured and was under the influence of the Mind Stone.

My apologies if I reply to you in a separate post but this got too long for the comments...

I’ll try to keep this as impartial and objective as I can, please, everyone, forgive me if I fail.

For start, oh yes, you’re absolutely right, as I said the whole bit of the junior novel contains canon mistakes in regard to both Thor and Loki.

Going in order:

Thor never demanded the throne, the throne was ALWAYS meant to be given to him by Odin, nor he refused it when Asgard needed him the most. He refused it when Asgard just won the war against the Dark Elves and, after Thor refused it, Asgard went through 4 years of peace. Things got worse only because Hela came back after 4 years, something no one had an idea would happen except Odin.

As for Loki yeah, the first time in “Thor” he ABSOLUTELY didn’t steal the throne. He was also a heir to it and with Thor banished for something Thor did (I’ve a long meta digging into how it was Thor who caused his own banishment if someone is in doubt about it) he was the next in line and rightful heir to it. There was ABSOLUTELY no stealing of the throne in a cut scene we see Frigga herself telling so to a surprised Loki.

Loki: What hope is there for Thor? Frigga: There's always a purpose to everything your father does. Thor may yet find a way home. Loki looks troubled by the revelation. He rises, heads for the exit, when they hear the clatter of ARMORED FOOTSTEPS hurriedly approaching. THE EINHERJAR GUARD Enter the room, block his way out. Loki tenses, prepared for the worst, but the guards just stand before them. Loki is baffled. Frigga: (cont’d) Thor is banished. The line of succession falls to you. Until he awakens, Asgard is yours.

And it’s worth to mention Thor accepted Loki as the one inheriting the throne. When Loki tells him the burden of the throne has fallen on him, Thor doesn’t say ‘no, nope, the throne is mine’. He just asks if, since his brother is now in charge HE CAN COME HOME. He doesn’t ask for the throne he just wants to come home. And when Loki tells him nope, Thor doesn’t accuse him of stealing the throne either, he accepts it.

It’s also worth to remember Loki had no idea they would pass the throne to him when Odin fell into Odinsleep. As it apparently happened before, likely Frigga took regency in those moments and Loki had no idea Odin would fall into Odinsleep back then anyway. There was no plotting whatsoever for Loki to take the throne. The movie and the side-material make clear Loki never expected the throne to pass to him, when he let the Frost Giants in Asgard, he merely aimed to stall the coronation for a bit longer.

“Thor: The Dark World” is actually a bit more controversial. Loki has been sentenced by Odin to lifelong imprisonment. This implies he has lost the rights to the throne so he’s no more a legitimate heir to it (in the comic “Thor: The Dark World Prelude” n° 2 written by Yost (scriptwriter for “Thor: The Dark World Prelude” and Kyle) which was likely written prior to Joss Whedon writing the scene for the meeting between Loki and Odin in “Thor: The Dark World” whcih was later added into the movie, Odin even rejects him as a son, telling him the boy he knew is dead and what remains is a creature he doesn’t recognize and calls him ‘Loki Laufeyson’).

The moment Loki takes Odin’s place, he technically steals the throne.

Yes, he offers it to Thor, which implies he didn’t plan to keep it, but it wasn’t his to offer in the first place and although Odin always meant to make Thor the next king (and in the first ending of the movie it’s implied that’s what he would do as soon as Thor was back in good shape) he had no idea if he meant to make him the next king right then.

What’s more he doesn’t return it to Odin when Thor refuses it. So, since Loki wasn’t anymore a legitimate heir and the throne wasn’t his to take yes, in this case he stole it from Odin, not from Thor because Thor refused it.

Now yeah, I know Feige left open the possibility that Thor refused due to what Loki said to him in the guise of Odin…

Feige: That last scene needed to work for people watching the movie for the first time, who believed that it’s Odin talking to Thor, and then the surprise, but it also needs to work a second and third time. Why is Odin saying those things? Why is Loki saying those things to Thor? They’re very nice things, they’re very caring things, that he says to him. Is it partly because he loves his brother? I like to think so. Is it also because that’s what his brother needs… to leave? Perhaps. [“Kevin Feige: It was always the plan to have Loki have a redemptive death. It was always planned that he wouldn’t really be gone.”]

But this is the first exchange Thor and ‘Odin’ had in the movie after Thor returns:

Odin: You once said there would never be a wiser king than me. You were wrong. The Alignment has brought all the realms together. Every one of them saw you offer your life to save them. What can Asgard offer its new king in return? Thor: My life. Father, I cannot be king of Asgard. I will protect Asgard and all the realms with my last and every breath, but I cannot do so from that chair. Loki, for all his grave imbalance, understood rule as I know I never will. The brutality, the sacrifice... It changes you. I'd rather be a good man than a great king. Odin: Is this my son I hear, or the woman he loves? Thor: When you speak, do I never hear Mother's voice'? This is not for Jane, Father. She does not know what I came here to say. Now, forbid me to see her, or say she can rule at my side. It changes nothing.

Thor went there specifically to tell his father he didn’t want to be king and that he wouldn’t change his mind not even if Odin were to forbid him to see Jane or allow him to marry her.

So no, Loki’s words weren’t what Thor needed to leave, Thor didn’t need to be persuaded to leave. So maybe Feige should re-read the script before talking.

So yeah, Thor refused it on his own. Loki didn’t manipulate him into doing it.

(The script of this part is messed up though, because it starts with a reference to what Thor said to Odin at the end of “Thor”… and Loki back then wasn’t around to hear it so really, Feige isn’t the only one who should re-read their script but whatever, this was a bit they rushed to put together when they decided to toss away the original ending of the movie for this new one.)

But there’s more that’s wrong with that bit.

Thor says: “My point is that our self-centered conflict over Asgard has ruined our kingdom. We have been so focused on fighting for the top we’ve forgotten there’s a middle and a bottom.”

There was no self-centered conflict over Asgard that has ruined the kingdom. The kingdom wasn’t ruined, it was perfectly fine until Hela attacked and Hela’s attack is due to Odin and how he raised her and handled her when he couldn’t control her any longer, not due to Loki and Thor.

Also the real problem wasn’t a ‘self-centered conflict for the top’… more like Odin’s screwed up parenting.

So yeah, if the Junior novel is based on the old script there’s a lot of questionable material and not just in this scene. But let’s talk a bit about Eric Pearson, the guy who wrote the script.

As I said in another post about how people came to think Loki is a serial betrayal this guy never worked on a script with Thor and Loki previously and the most he did was to be involved in the “Marvel’s The Avengers Prelude: Fury’s Big Week” in which Thor and Loki have some cameo appearances.

To continue that’s what he says about working on the script:

Fun sells, especially in the Marvel Comic Universe. Did you have a hard time balancing how hilarious the film had to be with the high stakes it has going on? Pearson: I did, yeah. It was tricky. First of all, it took a couple of interactions with Taika before we got on the same page. He’s such a different guy with a different sense of humor [he says fondly]. After I pitched the scene that happens first in the movie I got a sense of his sense of humor and going forward that was really helpful. The first draft was really about nailing the structure and the character arcs, and having our skeleton. That was when I started working more closely with Taika to get his little comedic flourishes in there. Plus, on the day during shooting, he’s bound to do anything. Suddenly there will be a weird prop in the scene and you have to be like “Ok, there it is! We’re gonna move right along!” He knew what he was doing from the beginning. He was going to rob the bank and get away with a ton of comedy, so I was just trying to keep the story together for the most part. And keep the characters honest and true to the world and their respective journeys. [“A Talk With THOR: RAGNAROK’s Eric Pearson”]

The Junior novel has basically no humour. I would say the script used is, if not the very first one, something like the second… which is also hinted by how there’s no mention of Hela being Odin’s daughter.

Let’s talk about Hela. There’s been a certain spoiler going around about her lineage, and we’d love to hear how that came about. Pearson: The decision to make Hela Odin's banished daughter came really late into writing my first draft. We had discussed her backstory as someone from Asgard's past, the Goddess of Death being a weapon of war that Odin used to conquer the Nine Realms and build his empire, but as I was writing and getting closer to the end, knowing that a Thor-Hela face-off was imminent, I felt like we needed more. More connection between the two, more depth to their ideological conflict. And it was one of those late nights, probably 11 pm working at Marvel, and I expressed this concern to Brad Winderbaum (producer). I basically told him that I'd been thinking about it, and I thought that making Hela Thor's sister made the most sense for the story and had the most impact to a shared history. He agreed and told me, "Don't pitch it to anyone because it'll be more likely to get shot down. Just write it into the script and let everyone discover the connection the same way that Thor will." Ultimately it was the right move because, after I wrote the ending and retconned the earlier scenes to reflect the family relation, everybody who read it was surprised, and pleasantly so. [“A Talk With THOR: RAGNAROK’s Eric Pearson”]

And this guy clearly has no idea what the relationship between Thor and Loki was previously and not only because he needed Chris Hemsworth to point out he wasn’t handing them correctly (how Hemsworth’s input helped or worsened the matter is up to debate)…

Pearson: For introductions, working on Thor’s voice was really great just because Hemsworth is great with the script. He actually pulled me aside one morning to talk to me about the Thor and Loki scenes. He pointed out, correctly so, that what I had was retreading a bit of what had already happened in Thor, Thor: The Dark World and The Avengers. We needed to have their relationship exhibit the amount of awareness that it should have after the audience spent so much time with them on screen. So, the Thor and Loki stuff is also some of my favorite. [“A Talk With THOR: RAGNAROK’s Eric Pearson”]

But that’s how, after Hemsworth’s tips, he describes Loki and Thor’s situation:

As the villains in the cinematic universe go, Loki is far and away considered the best by fans. Now you’ve got to bring forward his humor a little more with Hela acting as the main antagonist. What was it like reconciling all the history that Thor and Loki have while there’s another big bad threatening their world? Pearson: We find Loki in a different headspace at the beginning of the movie. Since Thor: The Dark World he’s been ruling Asgard as Odin as he’s always wanted. He’s on sort of a villainous vacation while in a role that plays to his narcissism. So, he’s mostly off his world conquering villain agenda already at the beginning of the film. Plus, Thor and Loki have had so many interactions, and alliances, and betrayals. They’ve been each others’ nemeses for so long that even they’re a little exhausted by themselves. It’s almost like the fatigue of dealing with each other allows this terminator like force of Hela to just walk in. They’re divided so she conquers. [“A Talk With THOR: RAGNAROK’s Eric Pearson”]

Thor and Loki has been each others’ nemeses for so long?

They started having an argument in “Thor” that’s placed in 2011 and that lasted basically 1 day before Loki fell into the void. They saw each other again the following year in “The Avengers” and argued for what? 2 days? Then Loki gets jailed for a year and in “Thor: The Dark World” they’re on the same page, allied against Malekith! Thor believes Loki dead and discover he’s not in 2017, when “Thor: Ragnarok” takes place!

(Now, whoever is about to say they actually have a story of Loki trying to kill Thor and tries to mention this scene to me:

Valkyrie: He did try to kill me. Thor: Yes, me too. On many, many occasions. There was one time when we were children, he transformed himself into a snake, and he knows that I love snakes. So, I went to pick up the snake to admire it and he transformed back into himself and he was like, "Yeah, it's me!" And he stabbed me. We were eight at the time.

...can either accept the short explanation that this scene is a retcon of Thor and Loki's relation or read the long explanation with all the official sources that explains how this is a retcon as prior to “Thor: Ragnarok” the canon was that Thor and Loki were loving brothers until “Thor” happened. That movie is meant to be the start of their fighting, for crying out loud.)

They have a total of 3 days of actively being on each others’ throats. This exhausted them? Even if we consider the full year in which Thor was aware Loki was alive and jailed, we’re talking of people that lives for centuries and a jailed Loki can’t really be considered at Thor’s throat.

So no, if “Thor: Ragnarok” had followed the original script, it wouldn’t have been canon compliant all the same… but Marvel wasn’t interested in protecting canon from the get-go and let Waititi free to create ‘his own thing’…

Waititi: I was lucky enough they didn’t force me to acknowledge things- there were certain things in the film, like the play, which makes fun of the scene in The Dark World where Loki dies, but there’s a point to that play, sort of to recap what happened, but also to tell the audience, “This is not what you think it’s going to be, this film is not going to be a continuation of that. It’s its own thing, and what you think you expect from this film ends at this play. [“Empire Podcast Spoiler Special: Thor: Ragnarok with Taika Waititi”]

…so really, I doubt the pressured Pearson into keeping the old scripts into consideration when writing his own.

As for Thor… the guy in the first part of “Thor” was presented as someone who absolutely loved fighting for the sake of fighting, which, I think, would have made him thrilled to fight in Sakaar, hadn’t it been for the fact they wouldn’t have paid him proper respect.

However, credits when it’s due, the second part of “Thor” is all about him abandoning this mindset. There were cut scenes in Thor which even showed how Thor refused to start a fight over being called ‘princess’ by an earthling just to show he had grown up and wasn’t anymore someone who would jump at the first chance to have a fight. “Thor: The Dark World” is also about him trying to avoid involving Asgard in a fight. So in theory Thor has stopped being someone chaotic and savage by… 6 years.

(I’m trying to preted “Thor: Ragnarok - A New Story” which is a tale included in the Junior Novel at the hands of Steve Behling and that, among other things, depicted Thor as a warmongrel again, is not part of the canon.)

On the opposite side Loki has never been savage or chaotic, he’s elegant, well organized, plans forward and, unless he’s in a deep emotional storm, remains calm and controlled.

I would argue also he’s not lawless either as, although he has broken some laws, he doesn’t wish for a world with no rules. Even when in charge of Asgard he didn’t let it turn into nobody’s land but still organized and ruled it. So really, that improvisation was mostly out of nowhere.

“Thor: Ragnarok” merely decided to retcon Loki and Marvel allowed it because they wanted to kill him in “Avengers: Infinity war” without fans to make the same fuss they did in “Thor: The Dark World” that forced them to change the ending.

Not that they succeeded as fans rejected the “Avengers: Infinity war” death too, but whatever, that’s Marvel for you.

[iron--spider]

you’re as good as it gets

“Whoever would have thought Peter would replace me?” Tony asks, peering over at Pepper as they set the table. “I guess I should have. I guess I should have seen it coming. I’m not as cool as I once was.”

 “I am going to record you,” Pepper says, glancing up as she sets the silverware down. “And then I am going to send the videos to Peter, whenever you do this.”

 “Good,” Tony says. “Then maybe he’ll see how much he’s hurting his old man—” Pepper starts coming at him with the dish towel, and Tony laughs, holding his hands up in surrender. “I’m kidding, I’m kidding. Sort of.”

 “This is what you wanted him to do, right?” she asks, bracing her hand on the chair and looking at him. “This Octavius guy, doing this with him gets Peter college credit?”

 “The class does,” Tony says, chewing on a toothpick. “The working with him thing is a whole different...thing.”

 “He’s just living his life,” Pepper says, and she’s looking at him sadly now, like she might get it. “Getting better after everything he’s gone through. You know he’s not actually replacing you, he’s just—”

 “No, I know,” Tony says, laughing a little bit. “I know. I’m just being dramatic. To irritate you.”

 “Mhm. Easily done.”

 Tony doesn’t know much about Otto Octavius. Well, he knows everything he learned after he heavily, heavily researched him when Peter started working with him in his lab on the weekends. But, he doesn’t know Octavius as a person, and he doesn’t hardly trust anybody with Peter, even people he trusts. Logically, this is a good thing. Peter’s preparing for college. He’s getting back into the groove of things after...all the bullshit. He was having a hard time with it, for a while. Being gone for five years. His life upended. Tony nearly dying in front of him and losing an arm as a result of the near death. So Tony knows this is good. The kid’s moving on.

 He’s moving on?

He’s moving...on. 

 Tony’s had a lot of people move on from him. He expects it. He expects every day for Pepper to up and leave, for Morgan to pack up her little pink Hello Kitty suitcase and disappear in the wind. Rhodey never picking up his calls again. Happy slamming the door in his face. All of them would probably beat the shit out of him if they knew he still thought that way, but it’s so ingrained in him that it’s hard to push it back.

 He knows it would piss Peter off too. So Tony never says anything to him about his own dumb shit or his worries or his occasional loneliness, despite his firecracker of a daughter who’s been dressing up in Spider-Man costumes lately. But Tony misses Peter. And feels a dumb tinge of jealousy knowing he’s learning and growing with some other asshole scientist mentor guy. Tony is supposed to be the only asshole scientist mentor guy in his life.

 His phone buzzes in his pocket.

 “Speak of the devil,” Tony says, opening up Peter’s message. 

 “See, there you go,” Pepper says, laying out napkins. “He wouldn’t be messaging you if he’d replaced you. He’s too polite for that.”

 The message is a photo—a billboard of Tony himself, the kind of shit that started cropping up everywhere after everyone found out what he did. Suited up, sans helmet, staring upwards with a look of determination and grit on his face, like some kind of stained glass church art. Peter is in the foreground, both eyebrows raised, and it’s captioned “TONY ARE YOU STALKING ME?”

 “What a nerd,” Tony says, full of fondness. 

 “Make sure he knows he’s coming for movie night tomorrow or Morgan will never forgive him,” Pepper says. 

 “Noted,” Tony says, crafting a reply.

 ~

 A couple days later Tony is falling asleep sitting up in the workshop, still analyzing the layout for the new bot he’s creating to accompany DUM-E and U. He’s seen Peter a couple times in the past week, but the kid looks more worn out than normal with every new day that passes. Tony had texted a bit with May, trying not to worry, but that’s practically his every day state of mind, especially when it comes to his kids. 

 His kids. Plural. Two. How long has he been thinking about Peter like that? One of his own. Since before the end of the world? During, while he was gone, when there were things Tony couldn’t change, when the world was so heavy that he had to remove himself from it? When his failure loomed in front of him like a crumbling shadow, the darkness drawing all the light away from him?

 Was it then? Or was it when he saw the kid on their newfound battlefield, like a memory of a lifetime past, an impossible miracle? Talking and talking and talking like he used to?

 Tony leans forward and braces his elbows on the table, digging his thumbs into his eyes, nearly poking his own fucking eye out with his new titanium alloy thumb. It’s been a while and he’s still not used to the new arm. How it looks, how it feels, what other people think. An eternal reminder, just like the arc reactor was. Once again, he’s marked.

 He’s about to call it a night when his phone starts ringing.

 Peter.

 It’s after midnight, and yeah, he’s gotten calls from Peter at all hours of the night, but usually, it’s when he’s in trouble. 

 Tony answers fast. “Hey buddy,” he says. “You okay?”

 Peter’s breath is coming fast, and he doesn’t say anything for a moment. 

 Tony sits up straighter, eyes intent. “Peter, what’s going on?” he asks. “Talk to me.”

 “I—I, I—I made a bad decision. I didn’t know. I didn’t—I didn’t know. Help me.”

 Tony nearly leaps to his feet. Help me. Not I need help. Just help me. “Where are you?” he asks. “What happened? Who did this, what’s going on?”

 “I’m in—I’m in the suit,” Peter says, and Tony doesn’t know if he’s ever heard him sound like this. Only in the moment he knew he was dying. Or when he thought Tony was.

 “I’ll track you, are you safe?” Tony asks, getting up and sweeping towards the exit, a tension headache spreading across his forehead. “Can you stay where you are?”

 “I’ll—I’ll stay close to where I am, it should be—should be okay, but I don’t know, I don’t know.” His voice breaks and he sucks in a few gasping breaths. “I can’t think. I can’t—help me, please, I messed up, I don’t know what to do.”

 “I’m coming, I’m on my way,” Tony says, trembling now, himself, trying to summon the kind of strength that whatever this is needs. “Stay on the line with me, Pete. I’ve got you, just stay there.” He grabs his earpiece on the way out, activating it.

 “Friday, track Peter and give me the fastest possible routes to get to him,” Tony says, starting up the stairs. 

 He hasn’t had a suit on in almost a year. He hasn’t felt strong enough, safe enough, and the others have been covering it. It, the royal It, everything that needed to be done. Tony did what he could and it wound up well, and after that, nobody’s needed Iron Man. 

 But Peter needs him now.

 ~

 Tony can barely get him to talk while he’s on his way over, and that terrifies Tony even more—just short, clipped answers, wavering breathing, and it sounds like a panic attack. But Peter doesn’t seem to hear him, when Tony tries to talk him through it. He’s faraway in his head, too. 

 Tony finally finds him in an unused tunnel in Harlem, and getting over there without drawing a crowd is more difficult than Tony would have liked. But Friday finds him the way in that Peter must have found, and it’s like dropping directly into a horror movie. Quiet, echoes, dripping. 

 Peter crying.

 He’s sitting there, against the wall, his mask balled up beside him. This place is dirty and abandoned, and he looks too bright and vibrant to be here. Even in the state he’s in.

 Tony lets the nanos crawl back into the housing unit and he rushes over to him, kneeling by his side. He glances up, briefly, to make sure no one is keeping him here, that this isn’t a trap, but he doesn’t see anything anywhere. He hopes Friday would alert him to anything like that.

 “Hey, hey, okay,” Tony says, one hand on Peter’s shoulder, the other tipping his chin up. “Here I am, okay? What happened? What’d you do? I’m sure whatever it is, not your fault, we can fix it. We can fix it, together, no problem, kid. You know how much shit I’ve messed up and thought was beyond repair? Plenty. I always fix it, and we’re gonna fix this too.”

 Peter’s eyes finally focus on him, red-rimmed, and he shakes his head. He shudders to his feet, bracing his hand on the wall behind him, and he nearly falls before Tony grabs him and steadies him.

 “Otto,” Peter says, sniffling. “Doctor Octavius. He, he, he—he’s a bad guy, Tony, he’s—I’ve been helping him invent things and working on his specs and I’ve been helping him with all this stuff for months and months and he’s using it to hurt people, to commit crimes. He’s got—an entire team of guys, and I didn’t even mean to find them but I found them, tonight, they’re all these costumed villains, they were—they were working with the Rhino, that big guy I put away last month—”

 “Yeah, I remember,” Tony says, still holding onto him.

 “The police thought he had people behind him, more—more powerful people, but tonight I went after these guys that had robbed a bank on 4th street and I webbed up one of them but the other got away and I followed him—but I realized he was leading me somewhere bigger, and there were—Tony, he was there, Otto, he was in charge—he’s using these—these arms, they look like octopus arms, and I, I—I’m the one that helped—I helped him, I helped him with those—with those specs—”

 He covers his mouth, shaking his head, and before Tony can think about hugging him he steps forward and buries his face in Tony’s shoulder. 

 Peter keeps talking, muffled. “He’s responsible—his group, these people, they’re responsible for so, so much—shit—countless robberies, kidnappings, that—that explosion, at that office building, that happened—that happened in July, that was them, Tony, and people died, and I—and I’ve been—working with him since June—”

 “Stop, stop, stop,” Tony whispers, holding onto him.

 Peter gasps, sounds like he’s gonna start choking, and he claws at Tony’s shoulders. “I should have—realized, I should have known, some—somehow, figured it out, realized, but he—he acted so, so normal, with me, and I thought he was—I thought he was doing something—good, but he’s—he’s not—”

 “And you’re sure—”

 “I’m sure,” Peter whispers, wounded. “Positive. And I—they were picking up and moving their—base and I was—freaking out too much to even—follow—keep track—”

 “Shh, relax,” Tony whispers, ruffling Peter’s hair. “Relax, breathe.”

 Peter stops talking, but his breathing is labored, and he’s holding on tight.

 “The guy that got away, that led you to all this, did he know you were following him? Did he know what you saw?”

 “Don’t think so,” Peter says. He shakes his head. “I should never have—even taken that course, with Otto, let alone started—working with him. I made a bad decision, a—a stupid decision. May is gonna be so disappointed in me. And I know...I know you don’t like him.”

 Tony scoffs, still rocking them back and forth, gently. “I didn’t not—listen, one, May can never be disappointed in you. Please. And me, I’m just—I’m just jealous. I wanna work with you, I wanna hoard you, and that’s selfish of me, whatever. That’s all. But fuck that guy, now I have a reason to hate him. We’re gonna take him down, yeah?” He pulls back, holding Peter by the shoulders. “Yeah?”

 Peter looks positively fucking miserable, but thankfully, uninjured. “I’ve been helping him, Tony,” he says, dejected. “With...God knows what. The arms, they’re—they were supposed to be for limb replacement, but he’s altered them, and they’re—they look dangerous. He was in charge, he was—with all these criminals, some I’ve seen before, some that have gotten away from me and he was—he was in charge.”

 “Listen,” Tony says, stepping a little closer. “I’ve been betrayed before. More than one time. Used for what I know, what I can do. That’s what happened here. Nothing else. You have not and will not ever hurt anybody or anything. You’re a fucking angel, kid, and this does not change that. We’re gonna take care of this. You could do it without me, because you can do anything, but I’m gonna help you every step of the way.”

 Peter heaves a sigh, the kind of motion that shows he’s still horrified and put-upon by all this, but relieved that he’s not handling it alone. Tony knows how that is. It’s always easier to have backup, especially when things are personal. They both take things to heart.

 Peter moves in and hugs him again. “I’m sorry,” he whispers. 

 “Nope,” Tony says, automatically, hugging him back. “No reason to be sorry. My least favorite phrase from you.”

 “I’m just sorry for everything,” Peter says, voice breaking again. There’s a lot more behind that one, and Tony sighs, rubbing his back.

 “Don’t be,” he says. “You’re doing everything right. The world just sucks and good people get taken advantage of. And you’re as good as it gets.”

 “But we’re gonna fix it,” Peter says, tentatively, like he’s hoping to believe it.

 “Yes,” Tony says, firmly. “We’re gonna fix it.”