#i think the issue is that ashton's metaphor is ultimately incorrect bc the gods are not on a throne and don't act like mortal rulers

[utilitycaster]

I think another massive flaw in some Ludinus' arguments is ... he has been free to roam the world for how many centuries now enacting his plans and justifying his means? He has been preaching to people all over Exandria with his magic megaphone and swaying plenty of people to his cause, freely. Looks to me like the Divine Gate solution works pretty well, no?

TRULY like we know for a fact the gods can just. Cast a 9th level spell every turn when they are physically present even when bound partially by mortal form, and Ludinus knows this too. If the gods were actually controlling everyone's every move why didn't they kill him. Why didn't they destroy the Dwendalian throne for banning half the prime deities, or kill Delilah when she was off fucking around with trying to create a new Betrayer god. The story of Aeor being destroyed by the gods is on the historical record and has been for at least 7 years and they haven't shut it down. Why didn't Pelor just blast Abaddina to bits the second she started talking. Why does Lolth have to wait for a teenage girl to put a hat on before she can act through her. How come Keyleth is out there having been furious at the gods for 3 decades and none of them have taken her off the board. Ludinus keeps being like "we are FORCED to worship them" you literally aren't, Chetney's out here pushing 400 and he's like "I can barely keep the names of the gods straight and have not thought about them for more than 30 seconds at a time until joining Bells Hells", there's entire "godless lands" in parts of Issylra, countless people in Exandria simply aren't religious and truly, no one gives a shit on a large scale. Keyleth and Allura and Percy are all on good terms with Vasselheim; Bertrand was from the Quad Roads and I do not think he had the Lawbearer's blessing if you know what I mean. Ludinus is mad about the Calamity (valid) but he's ultimately just as mad that his mommy and daddy still worshiped the Arch Heart or the Moon Weaver or whoever instead of simmering in rage for the remainder of his life. He and frankly most of the Vanguard sound like that guy who became a violent men's rights activist because his mother made him take an anti-diarrheal when he was a kid.