#i think that mike is the character to look to for self-hatred and shame and it's clearly supported by the way that he
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he did sob, yes, but is that pertinent? don't we sometimes sob because we're overwhelmed, stressed, scared, or even happy? how do we know that was because of self-hatred? i think sobbing is a rather appropriate response when one decides to repackage their feelings for their best friend and the painting they've spent so much time on and care so much about as being wholly their sister's. i think it's also an appropriate response when someone you love happens to see you for who you really are despite all of your tireless hiding and tells you they love you unconditionally.
the duffers said that will wants to make himself understood, he wants to get this off his chest to those that he cares about. jonathan sees it and responds to it when they're alone, but mike doesn't because he doesn't understand. there is no one way to be or experience anything, but this is a character in a story and i personally just don't feel like those desires and his actions line up with someone who is experiencing shame. will is already a reserved character and we've seen him be ashamed or embarrassed of things before, like the mind flayer for instance, but he doesn't exhibit those behaviors now with this. he behaves more like someone that doesn't think his "crush" could ever return his feelings, which is in part why he pushes mike towards eleven. he doesn't tell mike, because he thinks he has no chance whatsoever. noah even says that himself, too, that his role this season was to essentially play someone in love with their best friend. if will is already such a sensitive and reserved character, would it really be like him to want to and unpromptedly divulge that which brings him shame or that which he hates?
i'm not saying that will is an out and proud lgbt icon strutting around in rainbow everything, not even in the safety of his mind. i also don't think that's realistic or accurate lol. i do, however, believe there's a difference between navigating a dangerous society and actually internalizing their hatred and turning it on yourself. given his actions throughout the show, i just don't feel like he holds that hate for himself or his sexuality. if he did, i struggle to understand then why he would lean into that part of himself more openly in an environment where he doesn't have to be the local fairy that got hate-crimed. i struggle to understand why he would want to tell mike, per the creators of this story, if that was something he was ashamed of. will has hidden things before. if he wanted to hide this, why hasn't he?
i guess i just feel like will being covert, aka being sensible and not suicidal, isn't a result of hatred that he's internalized in the I Hate Myself For Being Gay</3 way that this post was about. it's just survival instinct and wanting to live, no? that doesn't mean that he's ashamed of himself; it just means he has to play by society's rules if he wants to participate in it, just as everyone else does even if their rules are different. at the end of the day, he wants to love and be loved for who he is. he has never tried to tame that or snuff it out like some other characters (looking at you, mike) have. he lives as true to himself as he can in a society that can and would kill him for it if they had proof, seeing as how the people of hawkins thought his death/disappearance was a hatecrime. if he did actually hate that part of himself, then why would he honor it as much as he has even with all the pain it has and continues to cause him?
maybe we're just having a philosophical disagreement or i've misunderstood you, but i just have A Lot of feelings about how people mischaracterize (in my opinion) his bravery and strength as shame. the fact that he continues to be as he is without apology for it is an act of bravery that he commits every single day. just because he isn't throwing people around with his mind or shooting a gun doesn't mean that he isn't as brave and strong as some other characters. he fights every single day; it just looks different than everyone else's fight. and while shame is undoubtedly a social construct that obviously does not exist or arise in a vacuum, it feels unfair to say that people doing what they have to do to be safe and survive is a result of shame or hate turned inward In The Way That This Post Was Referencing. society needs shame, shame enforces the rules, and we need to abide by the rules if we want to live, but that doesn't mean that we have to believe in or accept that shame. people not endangering themselves and remaining covert isn't always due to shame, the same way that not everyone that's "in the closet" is in there because they're scared or not proud of their sexuality. everyone has their reasons and i just don't believe that will's are due to that. it isn't safe for him to be out as some people are today. that doesn't mean that he hates himself all the time for being gay. will's struggle has always been with how other people treat him: in season one he's bullied, in season two he's babied, in season three he's ignored, and in season four... well... he feels like his love is unrequited and reiterates that he's different as he has in past seasons, but at least he has his best friend that doesn't make him feel like a mistake at all and gives him the courage to fight on as well as his brother, so not all is lost. shame is a social construct, but i don't think he's the character to look to for internalized homophobia.
people who think will byers hates himself for being gay when will byers is one of the very few characters on the show that has refused to change himself to fit anyone else's idea of what he should be despite the fact that people, including his own father, have been harassing, bullying, and abusing him for it literally his entire fucking life are just...... so weird.
will's entire POINT is that he will survive and brave whatever you throw his way against all odds and come out on the other side of it still clutching on to his sense of self and hope that tomorrow will be a better day. the entire point of his character is that he loves what he loves without apology or shame.
he sings "that weird song he loves" in the middle of hell because it reminds him of his brother and offers him comfort in a place where there is none. he creates art because he loves it and doesn't care if it isn't something boys do, then he gifts it to his friends because he loves them and wants them to know it, too. he loves dnd and writes campaigns and dresses up for them because they bring him joy and he just wants to spend time with his friends even if they think they're "too cool" for it now.
he knows that sometimes it's harder than it should be to be gay in a homophobic society and has been harassed for that literally his entire fucking life it's LITERALLY how they introduce him to us not even twenty minutes into this fucking show and YET !!!!!!! he doesn't back away from that. ever.
he gets picked on for his clothes, but he doesn't change them. he gets called names, but he doesn't make any attempt to conform. his best friend, the boy that he's in love with and his very first friend ever, tells him it isn't his fault that he doesn't like girls and shamefully asks him if he really thought they were going to play games together in his basement for the rest of their lives and never get girlfriends, and what does will do?
he says yeah. i guess i did. i really did.
will faces all of that and goes to a new place where he has the golden opportunity of a clean slate, and what does he do? when assigned to do a presentation on his hero... he picks alan turing of all people. and when his brother later on tells him that he loves him no matter what, essentially giving him the It's Okay To Be Gay I Love You So Much And Always Will talk, still there is no denial on will's part here either.
will has NEVER, EVER denied being gay. he has NEVER tried to change that part of himself. he has ALWAYS stood tall and braved another day even when it was scary and hard. he has ALWAYS remained true to himself even though that has only ever made his life that much harder.
he said that sometimes he feels like a mistake for being so different from other people, but that being loved and accepted makes him feel like he isn't one at all and like he's better for being different and that gives him the courage to fight on.
literally what the fuck are you guys on about when you talk about will being self-hating for being gay. where is the canonical evidence for that? and more than that, why are you so keen on throwing away all of his acts of bravery and the sheer fucking strength of character that he's had since the very beginning? it would've been so much easier for him to conform, to be the "man" that everyone has always pushed him to be, but he doesn't ever do that. he stays true to himself no matter what. so, again, where the hell are these self-hating receipts?!
#i think that mike is the character to look to for self-hatred and shame and it's clearly supported by the way that he#talks about himself and his interests. he says to lucas in an argument that they don't want to be popular..#but then when he's talking about himself to will he reveals that he has an appallingly low and harsh view of himself.#meanwhile... yeah will said he sometimes feels like a mistake which is TRUE because when you're different you feel alienated and isolated#BUT he also said that mike (and likely others; given joyce's mention of the rainbow ship and how proud she was in s2 which DID literally#give him the courage to fight on) doesn't make him feel that way at all. therefore... doesn't that maybe mean that it's the alienation that#results from existing in a bigoted society that makes you feel like a mistake? because it goes away when you realize that you ARE loved?#and then he goes to say that that love and support makes him feel BETTER for being different.#so i just feel like shame is not the way to go personally.#but that's just speaking on his SEXUALITY. will's feelings for mike are a whole different animal.#he told mike that he DID want to spend the rest of his life with him and that he DID think THEY would never get girlfriends.#then he goes and rips their photo down the middle. i see the destruction of castle byers not as a 100% homophobia thing#but simply the embarrassment and heartache of thinking your feelings were requited. bc he's then hesitant when he says 'that is.. if you#still want to play...?' and how he then goes on to be how we saw in s4 which is him leaning more into that since he's in an environment#where he can relatively safely (compared to midwest hawkins) do that.#again im sorry if i totally misunderstood but that One Detail just breaks my heart and i disagree with it on a fundamental level#just because of the way that it frames those who adapt to survive in a way in a way where instead of that being due to survival instinct#it's framed as hiding almost? or like there's only one way to be. which you said you wrote that on break so it could be me misunderstanding#BUT YEAH. i just. yeah. i have a lot of feelings on the subject of shame and sexuality and survival.#and i don't think that he would be openly gay in s5. i just think he would learn that he IS loved and valued and is as important to his#loved ones as they are to him and that that would mean the world to him. like with robin!#i don't tell people i'm a dyke because i can't always ensure my safety afterward. that's me deciding to move past the bear instead of#sticking my hand directly into its mouth full of very sharp teeth that will surely rip my limb right off.#will doesn't tell people he's gay bc he lives in hawkins indiana and doesn't want to ACTUALLY get hate-crimed for real this time.#is that due to shame or is that just him doing what he has to do to live another day as himself?#& when ppl write him as self-hating it's always of the I Hate Being Gay</3 variety which is what this was in reference to originally.#tldr is he carrying that shame and internalizing it or is he traversing through it in a way where he can come out of it himself and alive?#will analysis
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i don’t think people realize that at this point it’s much more important for queer stories to be shown in a positive light than it is to portray them “realistically”.
(there’s also an issue in the idea that queer characters/couples not suffering 24/7 is inherently unrealistic, but that’s another can of worms.)
there are plenty of “realistic” queer love stories out there. we get it. most queer people lead miserable lives, never get happy endings, and are generally shunned from society, right? we know this. we see it all the time. we experience it. i’d like to think that we’ve come far enough to say that representation is no longer just about queer people being included—it’s also about depicting them in a way that’s somehow meaningful, fulfilling, and—dare i say—hopeful.
is will’s self-hatred, shame, and overall reluctance to come out to anyone a realistic portrayal of the experience of being a closeted gay kid in the 80s? yes, of course it is. nobody thinks it isn’t. the problem is that, ultimately, this is a TV show with a narrative. it’s supposed to tell a story, and a good one at that.
my question is this: what does will having unrequited feelings for his (supposedly) straight best friend do for the narrative? what does it do to develop any characters involved? the answer is nothing. it does absolutely nothing. it’s just another unnecessary tragic ending for a queer character who’s already suffered beyond belief. will’s arc could have easily been separate from mike’s; it could have been all about self-acceptance and gaining confidence in his identity, but this is very pointedly the route they didn’t choose, and that is why queer people are upset by the path vol 2 went down.
to watch a gay kid’s feelings be used as a prop to push the main heterosexual couple back together is humiliating. to see a lesbian watch as her crush kisses her shock-factor boyfriend is humiliating. it’s like it’s being rubbed in our faces—hey, look, people like you will never be happy! haha!
that’s not the representation we need anymore. it’s not impactful or satisfying or new, it’s just depressing. realism only matters so much in a sci-fi horror/drama, and i’ve honestly never seen so many people bitch and moan about realism until the conversation was about queer characters finding happiness.
so no, queer people are not just sad because their ship didn’t become canon. that is not what this is about. pay more attention, please.
#to any queer people who enjoy the storylines of these characters/feel seen by them: good! i’m glad something good has come from this#this is just the way i see it and an attempt to explain why so many people are unhappy with vol 2#i could say a lot more but unfortunately i am stupid#byler#will byers#robin buckley#mike wheeler#stranger things#st4 spoilers
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Stranger Things as a Metaphor
My theory is that Will had his first romantic inkling for Mike in the first episode outside of Mike’s house. That moment where he realizes he can’t lie to him about the dice roll. Or maybe it’s a mutual moment. Either way, the lights flicker as Will’s leaving and Mike notices—it’s a sign of the mindflayer (or maybe Vecna) watching, but also we’re told that love is palpable—it’s like electricity. So maybe that’s it—Mike and Will have a moment outside his house. Then Will gets dragged to the upside down, which hasn’t changed since that day.
The upside down is then a metaphor for the closet. A lot of people have theorized this. Even 16/17 year old me googled it after watching the show back when it first came out. I mean, we spend the entire first season being told over and over again that Will is bullied for being queer, that his father calls him homophobic slurs, and that he’s a sensitive kid, etc.
This also works when we consider that running and hiding isn’t always seen as a bad thing. Hiding in the upside down keeps Will safe on many occasions. Especially when he’s young and defenseless.
In this metaphor, Vecna represents shame, and, for Will, internalized homophobia. Henry is paralleled to Will in so many ways, but the biggest is that he’s a “sensitive boy”—the coded language that first told us Will was queer. Vecna reveals that he always saw himself as a monster. Will says that being different, makes him feel like a mistake. Henry and Will are opposite sides of a coin. (Hence the upside down.) Will, at his true core, represents the beauty of queerness, the love of it all. Vecna is self hatred manifested outwardly, set on destroying all that is good in the world, because he does not see good in himself.
As others have pointed out, Will says that Mike is the person who keeps him from feeling like he’s a mistake and, that’s why Mike is going to be such a big target for Vecna. If we’re going the route that Mike is queer. Mike also makes a good target, because while we see Will making steps towards standing in the light, Mike has regressed further into his heteronormativity. That is a good place for shame (Vecna) to take hold.
Because of this, I think Will and Mike both are going to be stuck in the upside down (maybe lost from one another)/Will might have to rescue Mike. There’s a few things that foreshadow this very heavily. The first is “crazy together”. Another is Mike saying “Looks like it's gonna be up to us again”. Then, at the end of S4, we have the visual of Will and Mike sat on an upside down couch.
At the end, Will is going to confront the bad guy, but this time he’ll be with others. He’ll be there with Mike. That will be the difference between S2’s “Go Away!!” that resulted in his possession. That will be the difference between Eddie not running and dying. The message is that you can’t fight this battle alone.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this storyline is going to take place at the same time as Will opening up to characters in the regular world about his queerness. That’s already started with his conversation with Jonathan and it seems poised to continue. By allowing those closest to him to really know him, by allowing them to love and accept him for who he is, he will relinquish the power shame has over him. He will defeat Vecna and, he will rid his connection to the Upside Down.
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Can I sign up for a Disney- Service where I pay them not to put out any type of new content or interviews? Bc wow I am tired of this show and I’m tired of Mike Waldron shooting his mouth off and spewing grossness. But here we go again. He’s given another interview and I am once again left wondering why Disney had to hire him and not...literally anyone else. Like if they just grabbed a rando off the street it couldn’t have been any worse and statistically it probably would’ve been a lot better.
"I knew that I wanted to position somebody opposite Tom, opposite Tom's Loki, who had the same energy in a way, but also a totally different energy, that female energy”
Female energy??? Can someone please tell Mike that "girl" isn't a personality trait. Remember when I talked about how Sylvie isn’t a good female character because she’s physically strong but not strongly written? Remember when I talked about how she’s an empty “strong female character TM” who is a woman first and a human second because she’s not a good character who happens to be female but rather a character whose defining and only personality trait is her gender? Yeah.
"But it's one thing, I guess, to be narcissistic and to think you're great and everything, it's another thing to really believe that, to project that outwardly. It's another thing to really believe that and to actually practice self-love and everything. So if the show is about Loki falling for Sylvie a little bit, the hope was always that maybe that it's also about him learning to forgive himself."
What. No really. WHAT. Mike’s pathetic attempts to justify his ridiculously bad romance and also pretend like he didn’t straight up lie to us about Loki learning self love are hilarious. this makes NO sense. huh???? This is just a really bad attempt at damage control. Loki doesn’t learn self love. He never says anything positive about himself. The show frames him internalizing other’s harmful messages about him like that he is a villain and a pathetic loser as something positive. What has he learned to love about himself? Mike has yet to be able to name one positive trait he has. His hatred for Loki is so obvious. And how is loving Sylvie him forgiving himself???? she didn't do any of the things he did???? This makes ZERO sense.
"He is just a character who doesn't like to self reflect, and would rather pontificate, and would rather scheme, because he's good at it, because he's very clever. "
Really? He would rather pontificate? Another comment that seems to indicate that Mike really didn’t watch Thor 2011. Remember how the opening scenes established how SILENT Loki is and how he is constantly spoken over? That’s a big part of his other and victim coding. The way Mike constantly shames Loki for speaking is very disturbing given the way Loki is Other coded. And also given the fact that he is now canonically queer. Why must the Other be silenced???
“And when faced with an actual mirror of himself, he sees things that are attractive and that he empathizes with. He also sees things that are broken and wounded, and it helps him understand those very things in his own psyche"
Wrong. But also? Where? Where is that in the show??? This never happened. He’s just lying here.
"I mean, he has done terrible things. That was part of the work that the first episode had to do, was hold him accountable for that, sort of lay him bare and everything. And the journey that he's been on has been one of reckoning with that. Is it possible to atone for that? I think Loki's still trying to figure that out."
Terrible things? Huh. Kinda like Thor. Remember when he slaughtered all those Jotnar while laughing (which was considered totally acceptable in his culture)? Remember when Odin slaughtered and enslaved thousands? Remember when Loki was motivated by trying to PREVENT a war? And. Remember when Loki was captured and TORTURED by Thanos? Also. The first episode didn't do that. The first episode was about things he hadn't done bc it was him seeing his future. AND FURTHERMORE the TVA can't hold him accountable bc if what Loki did was bad then the TVA has no moral high ground bc what they did was orders of magnitude worse. And if what the TVA did was ok then Loki didn't do anything wrong. Why does the TVA get a pass for their horrific acts of evil???
"I think, for me, that's one of the most important scenes in the show because this is a guy who has been driven by glorious purpose, by the feeling that everything he does is in the service of his grand destiny."
So Mike really just watched that glorious purpose clip and decided it was Loki’s whole motivation huh? What an idiot. So much for the Loki Lectures. Obviously this guy was asleep during them and didn’t bother to watch Thor 2011 either. You know, the movie all about Loki’s backstory and motivations. Guess he also missed the fact that Loki is LITERALLY KNEELING when he comes through the portal and looks awful bc he’s just been tortured is very obviously repeating the stuff Thanos told him while breaking him. Loki is not motivated by believing in a glorious purpose. He cries when Thor tells him to look at the destruction in Avengers.
And in Thor 2011 he is motivated by wanting to avert a war and also more deeply by his desire for love and validation. He never wanted the throne. He wanted to be Thor’s equal. He has a mental breakdown and tries to kill himself when he comes to believe that he is inherently monstrous and that he can never earn his family’s love. LOKI IS DEFINED BY HIS LACK OF SELF ESTEEM AND HIS SELF HATRED! That is. The opposite of what Mike has said. Also Mike contradicts himself. Is Loki someone who is arrogant and needs to learn his purpose isn’t glorious or is he someone who needs to learn self love? It can’t be both. What a disgusting, victim blaming, abuse apologist lying hack.
“In that moment, he sees that no, it was his destiny to get his neck snapped by the bad guy he was working for"
Excuse me? Working for??? Loki never went back to Thanos. He died sacrificing himself to save Thor. WTF!!!?!?
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Don't know how people are gonna feel about this but Loki should've been dealt with the way they dealt with Lucifer (from the Netflix show) I mean while the show straight up dismissed loki's feelings, lucifer netflix really showed us the natural and organic character growth with ups and downs while still maintaining the comic hilarity (WHICH WASNT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE MC). It's love interest and side characters are all original characters dealt as independent characters rather as brownie or plot points.
And the scenes that prompted me to think this?
1. Lucifer asking his Mazikeen to cut off his wings because he's moved past being a pawn in his father's 'Great Plan'. We could've had loki come to this conclusion and tell Mobius (who would've been an actual all out ally who was forced into doin lg what he did) that he no longer wanted any place in a land that hated him. (Once again like Lucifer calling the silver city hell)
2. Lucifer actually being the way he's supposed to be (angel of light, light bringer etc.) We could've had Loki act like the way he Actually Is. Not like how @iamnmbr3 so eloquently put it 'like larry the dumb lookalike'. We could've had Loki being stern yet having that air of sarcasm and wit that he had in his the films. His eloquence, his physical prowess (none of the falling flat on his face stuff, a lot of people talk about how he was trying not to hurt the people in ep 2 but srsly Loki would just immediately disarm them), and most of all his agency and refusal to cower or the pathetic attempts at lying.
3. Costumes. The lucifer netflix team had an extensive costume department that ironically pales in comparison to what disney is capable of but still we see Lucifer have a wide array of clothes and styles. Have Loki take the first chance to change his clothes. If he wants the 50s aesthetic have at it! he can wear the tuxedos and the nice leather. Or maybe change into some nice Viking-inspired leathers and battle armor. Have him as a pirate, or a knight or a cowboy. You're traveling through time good man! you can at least hit some of the cool spots.
4. In depth analysis of lucifer's mental health. the only episode of the Loki tv show I liked (loose term) is the first one cause it's the only one that gave a fraction of what we were promised: an insight into loki. That's it.
5. Lucifer's organic growth. This is self-explanatory. Loki watched one video and was good. Very good five stars. I understand that they only had six episodes but come-on. You could've had the subtle changes through out all the eps and lead to the big finish finally. With each episode focusing on certain aspects of Loki.
5. Lucifer's exploration of self-loathing. This deserves to be a separate point because Istg it was done so well. Basically lucifer messes up and he's faced with the hatred that's been conditioned into him (not unlike Loki) and then he learns what it is and actually tries to love himself. And not by kissing a female variant of himself (ew and also respect the gender fluid persons). He actually saw the good in him by reflecting and his actual good friends helping him.
6. Lucifer actually wanting to be good. Look Idc what shut mike waldron wrote, loki is not selfish when his whole arc has been doing things for asgard, thor, odin, frigga etc. We all know that New York was mind control, I do not know why it's being swept under the rug. But here's the thing, that self loathing I mentioned earlier is a huge part of Loki thinking he's some monster and intent on proving it.
7. Lucifer facing his 'devil-face'. Loki should've come to terms with his Jotun heritage. The TVA could've had a case in Jotunheim concerning the Royal Family and Loki could've seen the entirety of Jotunheim and it's people not just that most-likely war propaganda the Asgardians force-fed him. Maybe have him meet his siblings or better yet his mother. There's a very nice fic on A03 called Asgardian Galdr that deals with this beautifully.
8. Luicfer having a Breakdown and Crying: First off this happens gradually, his problems pile up etc etc. and he faces off his father and gets angry until he finally breaks down. And basically God says, "I'm sorry but i can't fix you," And Lucifer in all his grief and desperation asks, "But you're God,'. I know we talk a lot about Loki being made weak in the Show but that's specifically about him being made weak and helpless to make Sylvie seem like a stronger character (Don't get me started on the Sif and Narcissm scene istfg), But maybe seeing Loki try awkwardly to be good and near the finish of the show we see it blow up in some angsty way? only for some conversation like this to happen and have Loki understand that being good is something that is innate and something he already had the potential for all along. Maybe learn that he's not lawful good but as always the morally grey character we know him as. (Protector of misfits, god of outcasts i.e all the shit Marvel shat on) and rise as the God of Chaos and Stories against the rigid bonds of The TVA and essentially Kang.
9. Lucifer having a nice healthy romantic interest and relationship. Lucifer and Chloe's relationship is more often than not the main point of the show but no matter how much it is focused on it remains health, organic and not a weird allegory for something disgusting. Even if Sylvie weren't a Loki (once again ew) the whole dynamic was toxic. She constantly put him down, and invalidated his feelings (Sounds like Odin huh?) and guess what Loki fell in love with her after one day, one conversation of what love was and Mobius calling her his girlfriend (he also said that it was freakish and i agree). We could've had Sigyn sweet lord. (I'll make another post about this)
10. Lucifer's Sexuality. There is a whole episode in which Loki's paramours are getting murdered and they all vary from men to women to all that comes in between. And there's no shame, no offensive jokes. Have Loki flirt with dudes, i understand ms.karen that this is for children, don't worry the casual sex ;) was offscreen. Have Loki turn into a woman and flirt with woman cowards, maybe make some questionable remarks about horses (That make Sigyn laugh)
11. Lucifer's Powers: lemme sum up, Lucifer can, let's call it, use compulsion on people. He is known for his strength and prowess and abilites to grant favors. Have Loki shapeshift into animals, absolutely mauling people. Have him use his silver-tongue to coax people into making or changing history (Yes Brutus, Caesar is getting to be a bit much, say have you heard how sharp knives are?)
I'm pretty sure there's more that i can't remember rn. And here is one thing i would like to make very clear.
You are not bad for liking the show or hating it whatever. The problem is that the show framed a lot of bad things as good (Anything the TVA did, Mobius' torture session with Loki, the way Sylvie treated Loki only for them to become romantic partners, the Sylkie fiasco as it was offensive to genderfluid people and the bare fucking minimum of LGBTQ and POC rep). The show was also marketed specifically to make us think hey! Loki might actually be the main character only for it to blow up in our faces. We were also promised an actual plot rather than a constantly plot twisting concept that could've been worth something.
Also i'm still working on a Loki fic rn after which i will write a Loki(TV) Rewrite but unitil then ig.
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Eliot, Being Loved and Trauma in Season 1
The nature of The Magicians, as a show, is that it moves at an odd clip almost always; things are kind of haphazardly lingered over or they don’t have time to #unpackallofthat, which is somehow at the same time frustrating and wonderful until the implosion at the end of season four, but I digress from discussing my beloved ELIOT IN DETAIL:
In season one, Eliot meets a guy who he’s obviously distractedly into (Mike), has sex with him and decides at lightning speed that he is his boyfriend! Given Margo’s befuddlement, which is part classic best friend-being-sidelined jealousy and part “what the fuck,” I think we are justified to read this as a conscious character choice.
You could argue it’s a TV time thing where we just have this episode and then these many episodes to get through so much content. But it’s most interesting as a character choice. Because Eliot Waugh is presented as someone who would like, maybe, to be described as “ornamental.” He is hedonistic and paints a picture of himself as someone who takes few things seriously and cares about little except pleasure, which he straight-up tells Quentin and thus the audience. But in this same storyline, to say nothing of the season before it, you can also see he cares so much. About, like, everything. Quentin observes he clearly cares about Mike from the effort he’s putting into choosing a dang vest, so this apparently is illustrating to Quentin that Mike is a special exception to Eliot‘s, like, aloof cool or something? But instead it illustrates the level of care Eliot actually puts into cultivating his image, which he directly presents to Mike as something that is, in fact, cultivated. Another little offhanded illustration of this in the Mike storyline is the struggle that we see Eliot have to literally make a cocktail!
So we know Eliot is his own greatest creative project; the seriousness with which he imbues sharing this shows that it’s not just tenderly revealing, and thus vulnerable, but a subject of some shame. At the same time, I would argue him grandly revealing to a boy he ultimately barely knows his inner Indiana shame is in itself a performance. But then, Mike is playing the part that Eliot needs him to play, and is literally not real! That brings me to the fact that in season one, I was stricken by how much everyone falls for Eliot’s bullshit. Looking back from the vantage of later seasons, it’s especially easy to see where and how facade-y his facade is. But the person who does see through it is actually, uh, actually Martin Chatwin?
So the show never unpacks this fact to its fullest coherent extent, and why would it maybe, but Mike is Martin Chatwin, or at the very least some kind of magical version of a boyfriend bot script running in the shell of a Brakebills alum. But the things that Mike says and does are so, so tragically specific to Eliot, who wants to be seen and known and loved for who he is, not his facade. He wants a steady, kind-of-boring boyfriend and takes it when it’s offered, all at once. He hates himself so, so much, a hatred that goes messily surface-level in the wake of killing Mike.
Martin Chatwin, for me, is one of the weak points of early Magicians. It’s not smart enough as a story to be about the cycle of abuse. It’s also not smart enough to be coherently about him trying to regain power after being abused and losing himself to become untouchable. He has a twisted apparent obsession with childhood that we are supposed to find a little creepy in an offhand joke way, even though, not to belabor the point, he was abused as a child. So rarely do children who experience abuse turn their anger outwards in violence but it’s a story people want to tell, like, obsessively.
But the connection that the Magicians draws between Martin Chatwin and Eliot, while I’m not arguing that it’s intentional, is an interesting one. Eliot’s childhood abuse experience is not like Martin’s except in the way that all abuse can be a shared experience. This plus some implied omniscience, maybe, is probably why Martin Chatwin is able to so perfectly zero in on the fitting puzzle pieces to Eliot’s insecurities and present them in the form of a boyfriend.
That boyfriend is actually a self-proclaimed uncultured bitch from Texas, who actually worries he will bore Eliot, which seems anathema to how Eliot presents himself. But it’s actually that this lack of care about what Eliot pours himself into gives him one less rubric by which to be judged in both directions. He doesn’t offer affection to Eliot based on his entertainment value or lack thereof, but at the same time, he vocally appreciates and admires it. It means that Eliot’s style, all of Eliot’s fussing that he tries so hard at is a bonus, not a qualifier. This guileless lack of judgment is what leads Eliot to disclosing himself as a pretty half-hearted conman, even though he has no real endgame to the con other than like, people thinking he’s cool. And of course, he’s automatically the coolest person beer-drinking Mike knows by Mike’s admission. Eliot really, really wants to have this power in someone’s life; it’s a tailor-made illusion for him.
But most painfully of all, the crux of the story that Martin Chatwin sets up is that Mike sees Eliot. Mike sees both Eliot’s artifice, and the work it took to get to the artifice, and Mike vocally adores all of it. The part of their exchange that fully undoes Eliot visibly, emotionally, is:
Mike: Thank you.
Eliot: For what?
Mike: Just you.
Martin Chatwin, as another abused kid, zeroes in on validation to insert himself into Eliot’s life and the inner circle of, I don’t know, the grad students he’s obsessed with for some reason. We don’t have to think about that too much. But no one else at this point in the show sees through Eliot’s surface-level bullshit except the formerly-traumatized weirdo moth supervillain. And he sees through it so completely that it leaves Eliot destroyed to the point of needing to throw his life away, to the point of literally asking for something bigger than himself and his emotions in condemning himself to Fillory.
If the Magicians would let Eliot be happy, it would ultimately be about him finding this sense of validation in himself: strength in his presentation, in who he is as his most authentic self, but not relying on it as a crutch and shield to keep himself protected from love and the world at large. Able to see himself as not the worst person in the world, and not needing to be a martyring, self-sacrificing hero (specifically, just post-Mike, martyring himself on forced heterosexuality) to prove that he isn’t. It’s such a to-the-bones story about being gay and being okay with yourself, if the Magicians would just let it be.
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Wonder Woman is a Comic Book Character
“Wonder Woman Metal Vintage Comic Sign”, entertainmentearth.com, https://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VN75046
Famous celebrities and women of humble income are coming forth about their encounters with their harassers for the new movement dubbed “#MeToo”. It is for the most part for the better, in good intention, and long overdue. Women will no longer have to hold their silence in fear of backlash. But there are women who are still afraid to speak out about their professional superiors harassing them and who will deal with this fear far into the future of this cultural shift. They are still afraid of losing their jobs and no one believing them. And such a woman does not fit into this new picture being painted by the media and radical feminists of what a woman should be. I fear this movement might twist the minds of some to believe, yet again, that all women must be certain things and live up to specific standards. This case is most evident in a recent New York Times article published giving a harsh criticism on the incident and detailed article depicting the incident, revolving around famed comedian Aziz Ansari.
news.infoshop.org, infoshop staff, 17 Feb 2018, http://news.infoshop.org/feminism/rebecca-solnit-on-the-metoo-backlash/
In an article published by babe.net in early January 2018, a woman named ‘Grace’ depicts her uncomfortable experience with Aziz Ansari. The date wasn’t bad on an account of no chemistry or little compatibility, but because of Ansari’s inconsiderate persistence to have sexual relations with ‘Grace’ after both clear ‘non-verbal’ and verbal ques given. ‘Grace’ states that she attempted to physically distance herself from Ansari multiple times as well as verbally telling him “[they should] relax for a minute, [they should] chill,” only for him to ignore these actions and request, as he moved her hands to his genitals multiple times and “wouldn’t let her move away from him.” ‘Grace’ recalls “Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points,” she said. “I stopped moving my lips and turned cold.” Grace is confused and surprised at the rapid rate in which their intimacy is escalating. It should be common sense that these cues should never go ignored and should never be dismissed by both the harasser and those who learn of the account.
Coppola, Mike, New Republic, Omar Aziz, 19 Jan 2018, https://newrepublic.com/article/146663/aziz-ansari
To play down a person’s harassment account is just as disrespectful as not believing them. This detailed event recently went under fire, as one journalist of the New York Times criticized ‘Grace’ for not being clear enough with Ansari or leaving the situation altogether. The author claims the article telling ‘Grace’s’ story is “arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October.” The author, Bari Weiss, even goes as far to dismiss the incident as “bad sex”. This article provides a different perspective on the same account of Aziz Ansari and defends his actions and understanding of the incident. Weiss also criticizes the woman of taking part of some intercourse willingly, but then not wanting to anymore, believing Ansari to not understand how there was non-consent. The author is inconsiderate of ‘Grace’s’ feelings and the fact that she felt pressured and intimidated.
Ideally and objectively, yes, leaving would’ve solved a lot of problems. But the truth is, it’s not that simple for everyone and every situation. Yes, woman can, should, and do leave bad dates. Grace would’ve been better off leaving but not all women have the courage or the strength to verbally say ‘no’ to a wealthy, critically acclaimed, beloved, empowering celebrity while in their apartment. It’s wrong to judge the woman for not doing that. The author only puts themselves in Grace’s situation, blinding them from empathy. Bari Weiss is a totally different person from Grace. It’s not fair for Weiss, in a peaceful, logical, unbothered setting and environment, to degrade Grace for mishandling the situation and imply she (Weiss) would’ve done a better job at it. Weiss makes the action sound easier than it truly is for some. It’s blaming a rape victim for freezing up while being raped when they should’ve—or in this case this author would’ve–fought back.
To be clear I am not saying women are or need to be weak and submissive all the time. It’s inappropriate to look down on people in times of weakness and uncertainty, especially when put into an intense sexual situation. It’s important to acknowledge these weaknesses within ‘Grace’ and mistakes within Ansari. Human beings have flaws and will be vulnerable. I don’t believe Ansari meant to make this woman feel uncomfortable or uneasy, but I do believe he acted incredibly ignorant and selfish, and he attained sexual pleasure at the expense of Grace’s comfort. Hopefully he now understands the importance of checking in on his partner’s emotional state when being intimate. Fellow comedian and actress Amy Schumer commented on the situation stating “If you have a doctor that makes you uncomfortable, or you get a massage, or you have a date with someone and they coerce you into a situation like the Aziz [Ansari] one, I don’t think there’s any sort of criminal charge, but I think that it’s good for everybody to learn that that behavior’s not acceptable.” Schumer explains well that no matter the circumstance or status one holds there is never an excuse to ignore the other person’s feelings in sexual situation. Schumer makes the valuable point “it’s not a crime, but it’s not cool. And it can still really mess with a woman.”
Such an attitude is just as inconsiderate and ignorant as grouping all women to be submissive and weak. It ignores the women who have leadership in their hearts and want to speak every idea that comes into their head. In reversing the expectations, it ignores women who are more reserved and self-effacing. It’s crucial for us not to turn on people coming forth about their encounters and not judge them for not doing the most ideal action, when the bigger issue at hand is that someone has harassed them. It’s important to not judge this woman on not knowing what to do or how to act in this rare situation that she had. For all we know, this is her first time experiencing intense pressure and intimidation. Its not entirely her fault. She tried in her own ways to let Ansari know and he was semi-aware at one point but didn’t check on her emotional state before trying to coerce her again. Weiss viewed the article as though Grace did nothing, or next to little, to communicate and that she is playing a helpless victim archetype trying to take down a much larger stronger big-name villain. This woman has nothing to gain for coming forth about her story. The only intention behind the publishing was to continue to spread awareness of sexual harassment among professional and personal settings. That is what ‘Grace’ has done in sharing her story.
Samba, Chris, “Galaxy Drawing Girl”, 13 Feb 2016, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob2IZRaXxKM
The outdated view of women being damsels in distress in films, sluts in school, and alive only to have children and stay at home to cook and clean, is wonderfully coming to an end. The limitations and societal expectations of a gender, and for the longest time portrayed as the weaker gender, is radically being shunned, defied, and rejected by a new generation of women and men who a making things happen through their miraculous will. Not always being given the chance, but making a chance for themselves. Women are now given far better development and diverse character treatment/creation in films, ‘slut-shaming’ is now being called out and transforming into a social taboo, and the fight for equal pay is stronger and louder than ever before. It’s a great time to be a strong, empowering, outspoken woman of the ongoing movement. The movement that truly shows that women are not delicate, fragile, shy, timid, afraid, weak, introverted, emotional, motherly, pressured, able to make mistakes, or vulnerable. But they can be this way. It’s okay to be either and/or both strong and afraid. Weak but courageous. Such as Grace. It’s not about how Grace failed to act here. It’s how Ansari failed her. It’s about how Grace chose to come out about the incident, despite a guaranteed backlash of hatred by many. There’s no such thing as a woman who is always strong in the same way that there is no such woman who is always weak.
Bibliography
Way, Katie. “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life”. Babe.net. 13 Jan. 2018. Web. Jan. 28 2018. https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
• Weiss, Bari. “Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. For Not Being a Mind Reader.” nytimes.com. 15 Jan. 2018. Web. 2 Feb. 2018. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html
• Zachareck, Stephanie, Dockterman, Eliana, Sweetland Edwards, Haley. “The Silence Breakers”. Time.com. 6 Dec 2017. Web. 22 Jan 2018. http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2017-silence-breakers/
• Davison, Rebecca. “'I've been flat-out raped': Amy Schumer discusses horrific personal experience as she reveals she was sexually assaulted in a podcast with Katie Couric”. dailymail.com. 1 Feb 2018. Web. 2 Feb 2018. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5339421/Amy-Schumer-says-flat-raped.html
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