#i think hen likes to bully tommy for fun

[half-oz-eddie]

lol that “shovel talk” conversation was so on brand as a Hen and Tommy interaction. Karen being part of it made it even more enjoyable.

Hen has been giving Tommy shit for years. Remember when he tried to make a bet (on credit) and she told him she was gonna eat his lunch and she was the one who pushed his face into his cake?

That’s her old friend and that’s clearly how they get along. If she didn’t trust him or something, she could just tell him to stay the hell away from Buck.

[outrunningthedark]

I would understand the outrage against tommy had the the last time we saw him, he left in a way still framed as a bully and bigot and on bad terms with hen and chim. But that’s not what happened. When he left, it was clear they were all friends and fairly close too. Then we continue to get a couple random mentions of him between season 3-7 from chim. Then he comes back in season 7 and why does he come? because CHIM calls him up. and did y’all see Hen’s reaction to seeing Tommy? She most definitely was pleased to see him. If he wants Buck’s love interest they would not be so obsessed with his behaviour from 15-20 years ago

All of this. Ofc. I'm ngl, sometimes when I see a Buddie stan bringing up how he mistreated Hen and Chim I have to wonder whether they actually sat through non-Buddie episodes pre-season 4 or if they just skip to the parts where things got "good". Because Tommy's "redemption" was very much established before he ever came back this season. Does that mean people have to like it? Nope. But characters getting redemption arcs with little to no build up, and even if they don't "deserve it", is what this show does. If that's such a problem...why are those people even watching? Why are they still here? And if the answer is for Buddie...fandom isn't dictating canon. People need to separate what they ship from what they see on screen when they're not the ones writing the scripts. Also, gonna say something that might come as a shock, but as much fun as BuckTommy fans are having with the invisible string theory (that they are not taking as seriously as others think, lol), Tim could not have predicted that he would actually get approval for Bi Buck nor that Lou would be willing to take on the role as the LI. Would Tommy have been an asshole if Tim thought "We might be able to bring him back for Buck in 5 years?" Obviously not. But Tim wanted to introduce a LI with a connection to the 118, with a connection to Buck's co-workers and friends so that it wasn't just some guy showing up with no last name and no backstory. (And this is what REALLY has the fandom so angry, right? He's not getting the same treatment as Marisol.) It just so happens that THAT guy was Tommy.

[usercelestial]

okay putting my real and comprehensive opinion on bvddie here even though no asked just because i feel like i dont make it very clear

i ship bvddie but i do not think its happening, i lost hope for it around season 5 when i dropped the show because i felt like we were constantly being baited and tbh i couldn't stand what the fandom was. thats mostly why i dont post bvddie a lot because ultimately i don't want to interact with the loudest portion of that fandom. after buck came out as bisexual, i stopped caring about it even more even though i still enjoy the idea of it because instead of just thinking about buck being queer, he actually was. first and foremost, i like canon queer representation so bucktommy obviously takes precedent because eddie isn't canonically queer (yet, idk, maybe tim minear will pull a fast one on us). i care way more about hen and karen than i do about taylor/lucy, even though i like both ships. i'm okay with criticism of it, especially of the fandom because to be honest, i do think it's fair to call bvddie theories ridiculous and out there because they kind of are, BUT i don't think it hurts anyone to think that or hold out hope, and it's nice to see speculation and theories bc thats what fandom is all about. that couch theory still has a hold on me even though i dont think it's intentional lol. i don't think it's okay to directly make fun of any bvddie for having crazy theories because we've all had ships that make us crazy and thats okay. the exception here is if that particular bvddie is making fun of bvcktommys for their theories n stuff because at that point its hypocrisy. this goes both ways. if you're gonna come up with a crazy theory, you can't look at other people's crazy theories and claim any high ground there, which is unfortunately something i see a lot in both fandoms.

although one thing i will not do is say "well both sides are equally bad" because objectively bvddies have been around a lot longer and done much worse things. that doesn't mean bts are all innocent either however, one ship clearly has dominance over this fandom and has a large, extensive track record of harassing actresses/generally being aggressive about their ship before bt ever even happened. so there are many, many more cases of those shippers feeling threatened and lashing out unfairly while the others are often just acting out of defense. if there's a bully on the playground picking on someone else, and that person kicks them in the shin, i'm obviously going to hold the bully much more accountable for their behavior than i am for the kid defending themself. while that's obviously not always the case, (i've blocked my fair share of bvcktommy girlies for being weird about female love interests) when it comes to the "both sides" argument, we literally just know that's not true. also most of the shit said about tommy by antis is deeply homophobic so jot that down.

tbh i think being anti bt is much more egregious than being anti bvddie because that's actual queer rep that you're bashing and hoping dies. but there's a difference between being "anti" anything and just not liking it and thinking its annoying.

at first i think i understood it because i think bvddie kind of was the underdog when it first started bc it's was non canon queer ship between two canonically straight characters but thats obviously not true anymore and hasn't been for a while. bvddie has the attention of the actors, has the positive acknowledgement of journalists that get to directly interview those actors, and has the popularity within the fandom. so it's kind of just punching down at other ships at this point, especially ones including female characters who already don't get a lot of development.

that being said, again, I STILL LIKE BVDDIE, and have plenty of bvddie mutuals that i love so i try to avoid the generalization of "ALL bvddie shippers are like this 🙄" because obviously thats not true and there's nothing wrong with shipping bvddie obviously lol it's just a ship and a cute one at that. i think its ridiculous to care that much about hating a ship you just don't like that much, which is fine but like i think many ppl in this fandom need to take several steps back and realize it's not that fucking deep, just like the things you like and leave everyone else alone.

tldr: i like bvddie but im not gonna avoid criticizing a big part of that fandom. ultimately i think ship wars are silly and i don't really understand them. i like queer representation and i like queer headcanons but im not gonna hold out hope for anything. im very ship and let ship until you start to be a dick about other people shipping and then i think you deserve to be called out, especially if you're actively being homophobic/misogynistic/racist. also i think bvddietommy should be endgame lol, let chris has THREE dads and then everyone's happy :D

edit: oh and obviously i like bvcktommy if that wasn't abundantly clear lol

[wearethecyclones]

I'm in the school of thought where Tommy WAS aware that he was gay/bi back then. He had such a shitty captain who just targeted anyone who stuck out to him, specifically an Asian man and a black lesbian woman. I'm sure he didn't just wake up on Chim's first day like let me hate someone today, so you can see that's the environment he really developed at the 118. No way in hell Tommy was gonna be out in that space.

I think his moral failings (aka his inability to stand up for Chim and Hen) were absolutely related to that too. If you stand up for the lesbian coworker too vocally, you're now getting looked at and made fun of and bullied too. It's yellow-bellied but so honest.

So I think he knew he liked men already but the growth was actually that he's out and comfortable in his own skin and has grown tf up into a better man on top of that.

what was tommy's journey like. from the last time we saw him to now, what made him realize yeah he likes guys. Was it as little as "you must be a team jacob kind of guy" like i want to know what got him standing in that kitchen, tilting buck by the chin in kissing him.

[lesbianrobin]

Im asking this based on your previous ask where you mentioned which season did you like steve the most - why do you think he was happier in S3? Hes still at the same point he was in the end of the season as he was in the beginning...if anything i guess he'd actually be worse given that hes now gonna carry even more trauma with the whole 'tortured by Russians' incident. (Not that the duffers would actually address that trauma...)

fair question! i have a few reasons.

the simplest of course is that steve essentially says it himself. in "the bite," steve tells robin that he's laughed more that summer than he has in a long time. while steve is still undeniably in a rough place in s3, he's been enjoying himself and having fun with robin in a way that he hasn't up until this point.

beyond that, steve is also far more free, more himself in s3, and he has personal connections that he never had before. in s1, he's constantly making excuses for tommy and carol, concerned about upholding his image. even though he wasn't classically miserable, it was clear that he was essentially resigned to a life of cleaning up after friends who didn't care about him and trying to please his father until nancy entered the picture. we seem to leave him in a good spot in s1, until s2 rolls around and shows us the truth of it.

steve's being bullied by his former best friend and the new kid in town, he's incredibly paranoid following the events of s1, he's insecure about his academic capabilities and preparing to follow a career path he doesn't want (working for his father) because he thinks it's all he's capable of. s2 makes things worse for steve by yanking the rug out from under him, leaving him heartbroken and without friends. he does find a new sense of fulfillment in mentoring dustin by the end, but when we leave him he's clearly still heartbroken over nancy.

in s3, however, we see that steve and dustin have become incredibly close. steve goofs around with dustin unashamedly (the handshake!!! the fucking handshake!!!!!) and it's clear that he isn't just hanging out with dustin out of any guilt, pity, or obligation. he genuinely enjoys dustin's company! i won't act like steve is in a great place in life in s3. he's upset and insecure about his academic and romantic failures, mourning the loss of the prestige he enjoyed back in high school. s3, though, is the first time that steve's fully honest about these issues, the first time that his instinct isn't aggressive defensiveness, the first time that he's able to just be frank about how he feels and what he wants.

in s1, he owns up to being an asshole and apologizes, but none of the issues raised (his problems with his father, tommy accusing him of running away "like he always does") are really explored or acknowledged in any way by steve. he's desperate not to get in trouble with his dad, but once it happens he plays it cool and acts like it's no big deal. he likes nancy a lot, and tries to play it cool, but when he believes that she's cheated on him, he gets incredibly upset and lashes out at her and jonathan. in s2, we see some of that same prickly defensiveness return after nancy tells him he's bullshit. he makes a snarky comment about jonathan being her other boyfriend, all venom, but once he's cooled off a little he goes to her house with flowers to apologize, even though he knows that nancy's the one who hurt him and he isn't sure what he's apologizing for. steve can't bring himself to outright say that nancy really hurt his feelings and ask her for an honest conversation about what's going on. all he can manage is either lashing out in anger or ignoring his own pain to try and preserve the relationship.

which brings me to s3. near the very beginning of the season, we see steve trying to bullshit to some girls about how he isn't going to college by choice, and robin asks why he doesn't just tell the truth. steve says that the truth is that he's a loser, he couldn't even get into tech, and his dad is making him work a shitty minimum wage job to teach him a lesson. yeah, he's unhappy. i'm not going to try and say that steve's jumping for joy in that moment. i do think, however, that the simple act of him laying out his problems so cleanly to a friend is a good thing, and i think he's genuinely a happier person, even for all the trauma and misfortunes. steve's unhappiness in s1 and s2 was a type of quiet stress and misery in which he was playing a role, a constant charade with no end in sight, desperate not to lose his friends or his reputation or his girlfriend. in s3, though he has lost all of these things, he gains something else: freedom.

he finds freedom in robin. he does favors for the kids and goofy handshakes with dustin right in front of her without care for how it makes him look. she makes him laugh. there's an argument to be made that steve might have intentionally been bombing with girls to make robin laugh in return. he tells her how he's feeling, the truth of it, admitting his feelings for her in a way he never quite did with nancy, discussing his feelings about his high school persona with her in a way he's never done before, admitting his insecurities as well as being a little vain about his hair without fear of rejection or disproportionate ridicule. he finds freedom in dustin, too, as well as a sort of confidence. dustin likes him and looks up to him for the person that he truly is. he lets himself be a little goofy with dustin, lets himself be neurotic and a mother hen and a big brother and a best friend.

more than freedom he also just finds joy and love with them!! hell, robin loves steve and wants him around enough to give keith a whole sales pitch so that they can work together! dustin fuckin killed a guy for him!

i just think that, for all that steve has his issues during and after s3, he also finally has a little support network, he's finally processing his emotions and communicating in a healthy way, and he's genuinely enjoying himself in his daily life than he ever did in s1-s2! thanks for asking :)