#i still dont know how to feel about edogai

[jojotier]

may we hear your thots about edogai in the form of that character ask? ❤️

Well Usami would be the biggest thot by design if not function if he’s by Edogai- 

ihvfuovfhj in all seriousness, Edogai… is an interesting case. Because on the one hand, I have no fucking clue what to feel about him. Am I terrified? Disgusted? Protective? Respectful? Fuck man I don’t even know

Favorite Thing: His passion for his craft is something wonderful to behold. Like, if you just look Beyond the fact that its Human Skin Robbed From Corpses being made into clothes, if you just mentally replace it with fabric or focus on his taxidermy, the care and dedication he has to what he does is incredible. Not only is he precise in his methods, but he has obvious skill in what he does that speaks volumes about how much he’s honed it. And honestly, I’d even take it one step further- even with the skin clothes, the fact that he’s so willing to experiment with different designs and forms for his hobby shows a massively creative, adventurous spirit. In a lot of ways, I love that Edogai is a character that an artist like myself can see some like qualities in- though of course, my art is the simple act of writing, and not. Skin. I also just think that his personality is a lot of fun, when paired with other characters, and love how sweet he can be!

Least Favorite Thing: That he died so early, tbh. As much as I’m wishy washy over like. How I feel about him personally. There’s no denying that Edogai himself had a massive amount of potential as an antagonist, and with some character development, might have one day surpassed the likes of Tsurumi and Kiroranke. Or if not become an antagonist, becoming an unlikely ally along with Ienaga would have been fun as well. That being said, his personality was kind of annoying in big, big doses… 

Favorite Line: To be honest, nothing really stands out to me as much as Edogai being like “Well how about YOU let me skin you and tattoo that, huh Tsukishima?!” when Tsukishima is trying to be motivational. It was both pretty fuckin’ funny and gave me an inkling of a sadistic idea that will now forever be woven into future aus I get in contact with- when will the point come when Edogai decides to take matters into his own hands and get fresh skin for himself?

brOTP: Outside the confines of canon, where he presumably lives? Edogai and Ienaga, all the goddamn way. Think about it- Ienaga likely has nice skin already, so she doesn’t really need to eat much of it. And I mean, Ienaga would probably be absolutely charmed by all of Edogai’s creations, what with being kind of a freak herself, so she’d likely hand the skin of her victims off to him. Thesis statement: let Edogai have a cannibal granny who shows him the true meaning of family. Also I guess Tsukishima and Edogai would be a good brOTP, in the confines of canon

OTP: EdoSami. I know they haven’t interacted in canon, but listen dude. I’m a goddamn Sucker for that photoset where the guy is holding a rose and trying to decide which of two girls to get with, so the girls just take the rose and go out with each other. That’s EdoSami, except the rose is a freshly severed hand and the guy is Tsurumi. Some other runners up include EdoKaidou, EdoTsuki, and EdoKoi- basically, I ship him with anyone in the 7th Except Tsurumi

nOTP: TsuruGai. 

Random Headcanon: Edogai became interested in working with human bodies after his father was killed. After his father’s body was sent to the mortician, Edogai followed, grieving over the corpse. The mortician, taking pity on the youth and knowing his hobby, offers to give him a space to “do what he has to do”. Edogai didn’t understand what he meant, at first. But the mortician and the mortician’s wife let him stay with them for a few days, and the mortician showed him how to work on human corpses, pulling up the intestines with vigor and keeping the faces covered until Edogai was ready. The mortician’s wife advised him in proper sterilization and embalming. 

He soon came to understand that they were willing to let him stuff his father like one of his taxidermies and, at first repulsed but wanting desperately to have some remnant of his only confidant and friend, he does it. 

Unpopular opinion: TW: Descriptions of medical cadavers and general corpses

Despite Edogai’s hobby being grisly and highly disrespectful, I can… understand how it might have started. I think Edogai’s hobby evolved and mutated from a very sane place. In some respects, this comes from my own experience visitng a cadaver lab when I was 17 as well as the simple fact of human nature: to some people, the macabre and uncanny is fascinating, rather than frightening. For myself and my interest in psychology, seeing a human corpse like that, highly dissected to the point where it was easy for me to lift the intestines or poke around the ribcage to feel the heart, it put into perspective how strange and precious consciousness is, that the brain full of holes that I held in my hands once belonged to a mind and body. For Edogai, perhaps his fascination began there as well- understanding that the skin he used belonged to a person. Someone who was using it, who filled it with scars and callouses. 

Edogai is terrifying not just because of what he does with skin- but because what he does with skin is the result of something deeply disturbed. A morbid fascination, twisted in the wrong way, egged on by years of abuse and isolation. And in surrounding himself with mounts and skins and bodies, cutting himself off from others, he began to become more terrifying, perhaps not even remembering that all the graves he robbed- all the skins he took- used to belong to humans. Living, breathing, humans. With lives. With loves. With families and dreams. And in that dehumanization of the dead, his descent into madness began.

Song I Associate with Him: Death by Glamour, at .666 speed. You’ll understand why if you listen lmao

Favorite Picture: Is it bad to say I kinda like this design Edogai made? ;;

[goldenkamuyhunting]

I sorta feel... lost? In GK rn? Sorry for a quick ramble, but I had a good grip on what was all going on and all the ties every character had, but the past few chapters or so, discovering the location of the gold (more of less), has me now feeling really lost in the story. Nothing much makes sense, even after I read your summaries/other things on the subreddit and twitter threads. IDK if you're able to explain, but it feels like some of the journey was pointless if only so many skins were needed in order to solve the gold's location? It feels like the story is a bit flat to me atm, but, sorry for rambling here- I dont mean to come off as rude or anything lol

No,

don't worry, you weren't being rude!

Now, a bit on why not all the skins are needed was discussed in chap 257.

But let's dig into this deeper.

Wilk's code was meant to cause people to get the shape of the place in which the gold is, which is Fort Goryokaku in Hakodate.

In order to get the full image you need 12 skins.

My speculation is you could still manage to figure out, although with a bit of effort, if you were to miss 1 or 2 skins.

So although the number needed to get the full figure is 12 maybe you could solve it with 10.

This means Wilk could have tattoed just 12 convicts and be done with it.

Why does he, instead, tattoes 24 people, which is twice this number?

Well, from a Doylist point of view, just because in this way we get a longer story than if we only had to hunt 12 convicts.

But there's also a logical Watsonian explanation.

Wilk knows that skins could get lost or end up in Tsurumi's hands so he wanted for the code to have a chance to be solvable even if Asirpa couldn't get her hands on all the skins. Basically, instead than making just one set of skins, he made 2 and by increasing the number of skins he increased Asirpa's chances to get more of them.

In fact in chap 222 we see that the situation is as follow.

Tsurumi has managed to collect 15 skins, 5 of them being copies though.

Hijikata has 11 skins, 6 of them being copies, plus 5 fake skins (3 from Ariko, 1 from Edogai's home, one from the Oil seller shop).

Sugimoto's group had, at that point only 2 skins (Shiraishi and Heita) and will aquire Boutarou's short later.

When they'll join Hijikata and get also Ostrog's skin this will mean that Hijikata's group will have 14 skins at which they can add Kadokura's partial skin so they would have 15, same as Tsurumi.

There's to say Kadokura loses some of the skins he was carrying. We know one was fake and one was real, we don't know if he lost more than 2.

So Hijikata is at disadvantage in terms of numbers but, out of sheer luck, he still has all the skins he need to solve the code. And mind you, it's really sheer luck.

These are the skins Hijikata have.

It means Tsurumi has a matching set with 12 skins forming the same shape.

However this wasn't a given.

Let's assume, for simplicity sake that they both have 12 skins (Tsurumi has more but whatever).

Nothing ensure them they would have the 12 skins that were needed to form this exact shape. Hijikata could have had skins from 1 to 6 and then 6 skins that actually go placed in the EXACT SAME POSITION AS SKIN FROM 1 TO 6.

This would have left him with just half of the shape needed to figure out the location.

Tsurumi, having more than 12 skins, definitely would came out with more than half but it could still be incomplete if many of the skins he had were to reveal to be doubles.

So yes, Hijikata's group is lucky and that's why they could solve the code.

Overall though, I don't think the code is Noda's strongest suit or the main focus of his interest.

Noda said:

"I don’t intend to write Golden Kamuy as a manga that’s mainly about solving the gold mystery. I write it thinking of it as a story of each person searching for their role in life. Because I write it like a drama with multi-protagonists, I feel that I have to write each character with some depth, or else the work would end up half-baked." [Noda Satoru from Yukimura Makoto x Noda Satoru Interview: Part 2]

I think this ties in with how once he lost count of the fake skins, Noda isn't so much as interested to the whole code solving, he had already planned both Asirpa and Tsurumi would solve it and have a faceoff at Hakodate.

The number of skins, who get what, wasn't what really interested him, his interest lied in telling the story of the people involved.

In short it was never a mystery in which we raced with the characters to figure out the solution, just a tale in which we were supposed to follow the (dis)adventures of the characters.

And, if we view GK as just this, Noda really creates amazing characters with compelling stories and a solid psychological background. I love almost all his characters, they're amazing.

Which is why I feel a little unsatisfied by the last chapter as it was more an 'esposition chapter' to explain things up than something that really dug into the characters' story. Oh, mind you, it was needed, because we needed to have such explanations but... I would prefer if they were better incorporated in the story. In this way they felt a bit rushed... but well, as I said they were needed and Noda is probably running out of time with his story.

We're approaching the endgame so it's not like he can take his sweet time with the narration. So, yes, I get his reasons... and also I picture his next chapter might have plenty of action so really, I shouldn't complain.

Thank you for your ask and I hope my reply might help you a little!

[jojotier]

What do you think of tsurumi and his general appeal? I really like him as a villain and I admit that he's a charming character but the people who worship him and say he did nothing wrong (even as a joke), honestly make me very uncomfortable.. I mean he's so awful and manipulative and abusive, and seeing people completely dismiss this behavior really irks me

This is gonna be split into two sections: What I find appealing about Tsurumi as a fic writer, and why canon both appeals and sickens me, since it’s being misinterpretted so heavily

1. In Fanfiction and AUs

I like him better in aus, to be honest. He’s really goddamn fun to write and read. I think me and fizzyspines are the only ones writing him as a villain in fics, but by God is it fun to slowly build up the tension and the plans, slipping that little niggling feeling of, “what if he’s telling the truth? Should we as an audience trust him and doubt the main heroes?” It’s an exercise in persuasion- through Tsurumi, can I as an author persuade the audience that these fucked up means are justifiable, or hell, even morally correct, to the ends? (They never are.)

And of course, because I am stupidly fond of this bastard, despite how much I hate him, there are a few aus I have where he isn’t a villain at all- he’s just a wacky extra, going through intense therapy and occasionally popping in to say hi. Aus like the modern au with Tsukishima having a dog sees him as settled down and working through shit, slowly working his way back to being somewhat like he was when he took on the name Hasegawa, and in the two theatre aus I have/share, he’s a Shakespearean method actor who uses his experiences and brain trauma to breathe new life into his performances.

He does have a certain versatility to him if you take the time to work out his backstory in different aus and provide support systems which keep him from becoming violent or mad with power. The best way to differentiate a villain Tsurumi and a normal-dude-going-through-some-shit Tsurumi is the true power that they hold- if he’s in any military position or guard post, he’s likely to become powerhungry, because he has the taste of holding power over soldiers/civilians/prisoners/etc. If he’s, say, just some actor who is dedicated to his craft and rose solely on his merits, he doesn’t really have a need for that power, and can thus be somewhat tamer.

2. Overall and In Canon: the Problem with Trying To Excuse Tsurumi’s Behavior

Honestly, Tsurumi is… an interesting case for me- mostly because, in most other respects, I positively love the 7th Division and the characters within. Everyone knows my stance on Koito and Tsukishima already (namely, I love them), but people tend to be a bit surprised when I say I love Nikaidou and Usami too, and Edogai (I’ve made peace with it) as well. Even Maeyama, as short-lived as he was, lives on as the extra of my heart. I even like Tsurumi as a character on his own, because he’s a Damn Good Villain.

But by God do I hate Tsurumi-and-the-7th. Especially in canon.

You’re absolutely right about that abusive, manipulative behavior, and not only does it irk me when people completely gloss over that fact- it irks me when people act as if Tsurumi is Only That Way because of his brain injury. Newsflash, that’s not how brain damage works! Especially not frontal lobe damage! I’ve been studying this stuff for a while in school, and while it is possible for emotionality to change drastically as a result of damage, so many parts of the brain deal in emotionality that damaging just the frontal lobes isn’t usually enough.

Tsurumi shows far too much capacity for differentiating between right and wrong, is what I’m saying. It’s fairly obvious that he has a sense of what different outcomes will yield, and indeed, still has a goal that he wants to work towards. It’s important to recognize that the brain damage didn’t change his goals, and the reason why he acts the way that he acts is because he still has a lot of the personality that he had before the brain injury- he just has far, far less inhibition and more impulsiveness. 

It’s also the reason why, despite Sugimoto going into psychotic breaks, he still generally comes back to his sweet, fun self. And as much as I love Tsukishima, I know that his warning to not become like Tsurumi isn’t the reason Sugimoto is restraining himself. The reason is that, in the end, Sugimoto’s original personality remains. Likewise with Tsurumi- it’s just that Tsurumi’s base personality is that of a piece of shit. The way Tsurumi treats his men, like dogs he’s trained, pisses me off so so much, you have no idea.

And we know damn well that Tsurumi has always been up to this manipulative shit- after all, he took Tsukishima off of death row and likely still holds that little fact over his head. He lied about Igogusa being alive for 9 years- and instead of, say, finding anyone else to work with him as translators (as I’m sure there were MANY available in the army) and setting Tsukishima free with perhaps the offer of helping him fake his death to give him a new shot at life (unsure of whether Tsukishima would take the deal, but if Tsurumi ever offered it, it would have been shown by now) he more or less traps Tsukishima with him. 

And then, right as he’s about to be confronted and found out, he uses the fact that they’re caught in an explosion to his advantage as an “aha, have you now” moment- “I’ve saved you, you need me,”, that sort of message. And that proves that he’s been premeditating his colonizing of Hokkaido for a long, long time.

As for his appeal, I have to give credit where credit’s due- the guy is a master planner and a damn fun villain, and the way he plays off of other characters is great. He’s a fascinating character, because in a lot of ways, when he’s shown alone, he isn’t nearly as interesting- like when he’s standing over the floor of skins before Karafuto arc. It really does speak to how much of his behavior around others is calculated to be just so. However, to dismiss all of these parts, or worse- to say that he’s actively helping all the men he comes across- is to deny him a great part of his character, and glorify him into being something he’s not. Then, all that does is suck the life out of any character that’s even standing next to him, and ignoring all the wrong shit he does. 

Moreover than all of that… it’s incredibly dangerous thinking. It both demonizes those with brain trauma and strips them of their responsibility in equal measure- by saying that Tsurumi is just the way he is “”because of his injury!!! dont be so ableist and mean >:(” is to say that all people who have parts of their frontal lobes removed are going to become violent, genocidal sociopaths manipulating any person that may even vaguely constitute a loved one. 

To say that it’s because of his injury also denies that Tsurumi is a cold, calculating individual, and excuses all his shitty behavior as “oh, well, he just doesn’t know how to function properly!! It’s Alright, he Cares, In His Own Way”. No he does not. And the idea that “oh, he doesn’t know how to function properly” is a piss poor argument in the first place- just because someone doesn’t know how to act (or “make friends” or whatever- I’ve seen this argument used with Ogata too) does not excuse NOR EXPLAIN FULLY the behavior that they exhibit. If these characters do not have the capacity to act and function in ways that don’t hurt people, and if they are not reaching out for help in some way and are not trying to actively better themselves, then they have NO BUSINESS being around anyone.

And let’s face it- Tsurumi loves being the way he is. He’s not changing for shit.

tl;dr: Interesting character, too bad people use his brain trauma as an excuse for the atrocities he commits when the trauma isn’t what ultimately causes him to do abusive, manipulative shit. Tsurumi’s a piece of shit, but he’s a fun piece of shit