#i see this when talking about arcs and character archtypes and relationships between characters
Explore tagged Tumblr posts
Text
I am NOT starting problems but I think sometimes people take nuanced and complex topics and then, once those have been discussed into the ground, refer to them in not nuanced and oversimplified terms as shorthand. assuming people who see the shorthand will have the context of the broader discussion. but then people see that completely oversimplified shorthand and think that's just what people think and that that's the entirety of the conversation and get (understandably) irritated but like. Nobody is saying that we just got tired of typing a whole paragraph to refer to a concept when we could say a few words
#i see this when talking about arcs and character archtypes and relationships between characters#we are saying ''abcxyz'' but that's too long for a shorter post so that gets shortened to ''abyz'' and then people get mad#which i understand. it maybe is a flawed system#you end up with a lot of ''nobody is ACTUALLY saying abyz'' even tho there are posts explicitly saying that#it's just all the nuance is implied#does that make sense#sorry this is vague I can't think of any examples that wouldn't start Problems#ok here is one. a lot of people will say ''jack is just a baby he's a toddler!!!''#and not actually mean he is exactly the same as a human 3 year old at the exact same development#however that IS what they're saying so people are justifiably uncomfortable with that concept#but the people calling him a toddler are using it as shorthand for a much more nuanced view of jack as a character#and would quickly clarify they don't see him as an actual literal 3 year old if asked#and so get irritated when they're vagued because That's Not What They're Saying#but like. it is? superficially? so i cant get upset at either side#just a flaw in our communication#this particular example also runs into tumblr's habit of exaggerating things when describing characters lol
10 notes
·
View notes
Text
Vinland Saga “Prologue”
A Review!
So, yesterday I watched “End of the Prologue”. It was a fantastic season finale. It really completed the story arc of most of the characters and while there are some lose ends left to tie up in the Manga or a 2nd season and while surely Thorfinn’s and Knut’s story can go much longer, it would have also been a very satisfying end to the show as a whole, I felt.
Within just this Prologue everything seemed to go full circle. And I think, that is why this is a ‘Prologue’. Looking back at it the season seems like a very complete story by itself that can easily set up another possibly even bigger story but is not necessarily part of that story but instead stands alone. Of course, I could be very wrong as I haven’t read the manga but that is how I interpret the revelation that all these 24 episodes had just been the ‘Prologue’.
When I finished watching, I didn’t get around to writing down my thoughts as I did for most of the rest of the season. I didn’t write something about every episode of this season, but the more I progressed the more I had to say about it. And just like that, I had a lot to say about the finale… BUT! I didn’t feel ready to write anything coherent down. The events of the finale really had to sink in. It’s now 24 hours past, and I still might need some time.
But… I think I’m ready to make my first season review where I talk about what I thought about this show, what I liked (a lot) and disliked (not so much) et cetera et cetera…
Now, keep in mind, I have only watched the show once. I also watched the whole show within a week, so many events might be very fresh in my mind, but I didn’t necessarily give it enough time between episodes to process everything that had happened. Also, while this will be very long… I can’t talk about everything!
When I frist writing this review, I wrote down about six pages just on characters... I reallized I had to tone it down. So, this review will be more story and plot focused, and I may try to write something else about the characters (or maybe some few special characters) later on, in a second post some time later on.
Some technical stuff first: I watched the show with German Subs, so some of the names are a bit different to the names in the English Subs. I now know that “Knut” is “Canute” in the English Subs, and “Björn” might be known as “Bjorn” by the English audience. That said, I’m used to the German names and I really can’t be bothered to check every single character for their English spelling. So, for the sake of consistency… I’m just going to use the German spellings.
The Plot:
Thorfinn, son of the former warrior Thors, sneaks onto the ship, when his father is forced to join the war between England and Denmark. However, Thors is betrayed by his old comrade Floki who pays a pirate/viking/mercenary called Askeladd to kill him. After Askeladd through some trickery and underhanded tactics manages to kill Thors – who is the much more powerful fighter – in front of Thorfinn’s eyes, the young six-year-old swears vengeance. In the following years he follows Askeladd and his crew around always looking for a fair duel in which he can finally kill Askeladd to get his revenge.
About ten years later Askeladd gets his hand on the Danish prince Knut and thus they are dragged into the plot for succession on the Danish throne.
Overall, this story to me seems very character-driven. It’s the characters that keep me hooked, not so much the plot. Actually, I think the plot is nothing too special. For the most part it’s rather predictable. To me at least, it seemed, like nobody really tried to surprise me until the very end. Only around episode 21/22 did the plot really go into high gear and then there were a few surprising turns of evens.
Before that for the most part it was even somewhat difficult to actually understand, what this plot was about, if there even was much of a plot, beyond just Thorfinn’s pursuit of revenge. So up until around episode 10 when Prince Knut was introduced most of the story was just focused on establishing Thofinn’s family and the relationship between him and Askeladd. Something that I got the feeling doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things. Neither the crew nor the rest of the world and to be honest not even Askeladd himself seemed to care for Thorfinn’s revenge. It’s something that Thorfinn is utterly obsessed about, but the rest of the world doesn’t care. And that is very apparent pretty much from the start.
I at least felt like some bigger plot was missing for the first ten episodes. While Thorfinn grows up the war between England and Denmark rages on, but we don’t see much of it. There is no story here. Even later on, when we finally see some actual battles, it’s not really the war against the English anymore, but just Danes fighting Danes (although some of these Danes allied with the English for a while).
Thus, for most of the story, as a viewer I also felt like we were short an ‘Antagonist’. Of course, there was Askeladd, but the show from his introduction made it pretty clear that while Thorfinn might see him as his enemy, in the grand scheme of an overarching plot, he would not be the antagonist. But that Antagonist was still out there… and remained out there and unknown for a long time.
It’s really only in the later stages of the season that we find out what this story is really about: And it’s about Knut more than Thorfinn. It’s about the succession on the throne of Denmark. Thorfinn growing up in this mess I think mostly serves to set him up and establish his character as the protagonist for the next arc(s). But unlike most other characers in this show, Thorfinn on the question of the throne of Denmark which everybody else is focused on, has no own agenda. He just follows Askeladd round. That’s also why midway through the season Askeladd feels a lot more like the main character than Thorfinn.
So at this point I have written a lot more about the Plot than I had originally intended. Overall I just want to end with this: There’s not a point in this Anime where I felt that I didn’t know where it was going. Still I felt like the story was very character-driven, while the plot was rather weak. That changes around the midway point of the season. Once Thorfinn has finished growing up (for this season) the plot really thickens… and somewhat comes out of nowhere. Still, every step on the way up until the last four episodes seemed very predictable to me. The show makes no effort hiding that, when and how Thors would die, or Ragnar or how Knut would grow up, or even Thorkell joining Knut. There was no surprise here. And that might have been the reason why halfway through this show, I thought somewhat arrogantly: “Oh, I always know what’s going to happen, I could write this show.”
But looking back on it now, I realize that although I saw most of the tiny steps on the way a mile in advance, I still had no idea where it was going, and if somebody had asked me, what this story was about around episode 5 … I would have had no idea. I would have probably said: “Askeladd and Thorfinn finding some weird Mentor-murderer-surrogate father-relationship”, “Thorfinn getting revenge”, “the war between England and Denmark” or maybe even “Thorfinn looking for the fabled Vinland” (which I think will ultimately be what later arcs will be about). None of those assumptions would have been wrong, but none of them would be right either. I would have never in my life guessed that it’s about “Askeladd deciding the succession of the Danish Throne to protect his homeland.” Because all of that is only reavealed in the last few episodes of this show.
Characters:
Now this is where this show really excels. Knut really impressed me, Thorkell is utterly hilarious, Thors is “larger than life”, Thorfinn is a dichotomy growing up in the image of two great men, I really grew to like Björn, Ragnar was bittersweet, King Swen did not disappoint as an Antagonist with the limited screentime he had and Askeladd… probably makes my top ten list of favorite characters of all time… And I don’t even have such a list. And that’s just scratching the surface.
Most of the characters in the show, as soon as they get just a little bit of screentime to shine… boy, do they shine. They are interesting and layered, and nobody is quite like the other. They don’t always defy character-archtypes that we already well know from other stories, but sometimes they do and when they do, it’s glorious.
Even some side-characters who are only introduced for one episode seem to be very well-done that we can understand who they are, why they are who they are, and what they do or what their purpose in the story is. Such as the old lady who saves Thorfinn in episode 5, the girl who witnesses her village being massacred by Askeladd or Master Asser in Wales.
Some characters like Atli and Torgrim or even Björn took a while to grow on me, other’s like Askeladd or Thorkell or Thorfinn’s sister Ylva were love on first sight. But overall I would say in this show there remain few (if any) characters who I can’t understand where they come from or why they do what they do. And WHAT they do is often disgusting, vile and evil stuff. But still, it feels like I’m not watching senseless violence but character-driven actions that make perfect sense in the environment they are and grew up in, even if it’s sometimes difficult to watch.
Overall, I think Floki was the weakest and most disappointing character with the screen time he got. And that’s saying something... However, I do have some hope, that we might get a bit more about him in a later arc. Especially in regard to him ordering the hit on Thors there are still some lose ends here.
This is everything I want to say about characters. As I said, I could fawn over Akeladd or Knut or Thors for hours, but... let’s move on.
Animation, Music etc.
Going to keep this short: It was great. Sometimes the animation goes completely crazy, like when in my otherwise least favorite episode 7 we suddenly get a first perspetive view on the battle. I have to be honest, I don’t like Thorfinn’s angry face, but it absolutely does it’s job. I loved some of the picturesque nature images. For example when kid Thorfinn learned how to hunt in a forest in autumn that was just beautiful. Snowstorms are... oh wow Very well animated.
I liked the Soundtrack though I have to admit, it didn’t stand out to me. One reason is that I have just a bad ear for music.
I loved the second opening more than the first. But the first was good too (although I think it spoiled much of the story for me).
The japanese synchronisation was amazing. Thorfinn’s voice actor in particular was really impressive whenever he got angry.
So much about that, I said this would be very short!
Other thoughts / Themes:
So again... this is one of those parts that could get very long, so I might make a seperate post sometime later on to talk more in depth about some of these ideas.
Ultimately I felt this arc was a lot about boys growing up. This is something that both Knut and Thorfinn have in comon. The story very centers and focuses around them growing up and turning into their respective adult selves. Especially Knut’s developement in the second half of the season was very entertaining to watch. The developement of both of these characters is vey much tied to the conept of “leaving the nest” and “the father’s death”. It’s something they both share with Askeladd himself - who did the deed of killing both their father(figure)s. While I don’t want to go too deep into it, I think this is (although in a more symbolic meaning of the word) is a critical point of growing up and maturing. Finding your own way, taking responsibility, not being held back by the expactations put on you. In this show this concept is used in the most twisted way possible. Askeladd brutally murders Knut’s fatherfigure for Knut’s character developement. And he is successfull in doing that. With Thorfinn however his father’s death leaves him shackled to the man he blames and hates for it - not so much because he is actually shackled to him, but because he is so obsessed with revenge. Both of them then learn and grow up under Askeladd (Thorfinn more so than Knut - although I find the relationship between Askeladd and Knut almost as fascinating if not more so) and ultimately lose Askeladd too which could almost be seen as losing their father a second time (in Knut’s case maybe even third or fourth time; Ragnar, God, Sven, Askeladd). And although Thorfinn always wanted to kill Askeladd it is ultimately Knut who fully steps into his role as king by killing Askeladd.
Another concept that is explored mostly with characers like Thors, the priest Willybald and Knut is the concept of “love”. What the show means with love is not so much a specific love for somebody in particular, but a more broader love for all beings / all humans. It’s something we see with Thors early on in the series when he give eight sheep to free a already dying slave and doesn’t regret it even when the man dies shortly after. Or when he refuses to kill Askeladd even if that could save himself, his son and his men. “You have no enemies, nobody is your enemy” is what he tells his son, and of course Thorfinn for the longest time doesn’t quite understand it - or if he does, he doesn’t follow this mantra. Instead it seems Knut - although never knowing Thors is most like him. They are often compared and they seem to share this Love that is undiscriminatory. Even if Knut is a bit more willing to kill than Thors being a more realistic character in this world.
This also goes hand in hand with how the show explores leadership or kinship. Askeladd is a leader whose men follow him because he is ‘lucky’. But he is also very much a king with no following or crown, even if he does not call himself such. On the other end of the spectrum is Sven whose crown gets too heavy and even controls him. Then there are the two people askeladd chooses to be his leaders: Thors whom he offers leadership of his band and later Knut whom he grooms into being a king and who coincidentally both share the “Love” as possibly the only two characters in the show.
The last thing I wanted to talk about was Religion. The season started with dreams of Vinland - this fabled place in the west (which I guess is America) where there is no slavery or war or cruelty, where the fields are rich with fruit and corn and... really a paradise on earth. It’s somewhat similar to how Askeladd’s mother described the country Artorius resides in in the west across the water. An of course it also is very similar to how christianity imagines “Paradise” to be. Halfway through the season we not only start dreaming about “Paradise” but there’s talks about Ragnarök, Last Judgement... People are waiting for these things to happen. Askeladd is waiting for Artorius’ return. Knut is trying to reach Paradise through prayer... All of these things however never happen and are doomed to fail. I loved this episode when Knut shortly after Askeladd said something similar in the episode before, realized he had to create Paradise himself, it was impossible to reach it just by waiting. Askeladd later says that it’s absurd believing Artorius would leave this fabled country in the west just to get back to this wartorn brittain... Both reached the same epiphany: I’m sick of waiting, I will do it myself. I loved this concept that is in a way criticising all kinds of religions while not really forcing this critical view onto anybody. Many people throughout the show find inspiration and shelter in religion - even Knut and Askeladd for some time. But ultimately you can’t spend our life waiting for things that will never happen.
There’s so much more to talk about like Thorfinn’s and Askeladd’s hatred and rage. The cruelty of war and slavery.... Or the overall morality of the characters and world. But I think I will leave it at that and just write another post once I’m done with it.
Conclusion
Overall I enjoyed this very much. Episode 7 was probably my least favorite episode and overall I think the second half and especially the last five or so episodes where much better than everything before that. The arc got better and better consistently.
I’m very glad how it ended. I still think the finale was fantastic. Now I still need some time to mourn and process everythig. This was overall a great season.
Watching it was sometimes a bit difficult.The show makes no effort to hide how brutal this world is. Characters - even characters I root for - ended up doing vile things on-screen. Murder, Rape and Slavery are everywhere, even if at least the latter two aren’t shown graphicly. So I would’t recomend it to anybody who is a bit squeamish in that regard.
But in general I myself loved this show!
4 notes
·
View notes