#i really was hoping we would have a season 2 of jatp where flynn and carlos could see the ghosts

[debushit]

it’s missing julie e os fantasmas hours

[unsaidjulie]

jatp as a fairytale

okay so this was entirely inspired by this post. i talked a bit in the tags of my reblog and @metaorigin asked me to expand on my thoughts, so, here it is: 

why julie and the phantoms should be looked at as a fairy tale rather than your regular kids/young adult concept

let’s first discuss the differences between the two concepts. fairy tales are most kids’ first introduction to stories – think cinderella, snow white and the seven dwarves, beauty and the beast, as the universal ones. these stories serve to teach kids the abstract concepts of bad and good. 

let’s do this on the example of tangled, or rapunzel. there’s a clear villain aka bad guy (stepmother), a clear good guy 1 (rapunzel), and a clear problem (stepmother doesn’t let her out of the tower). there’s also the clear good guy 2, aka the saviour (flynn/eugene). the fairy tale gets a little bit more complex in tangled rather than the disney version, but the premise is the same, and the ending is the same: against all odds, rapunzel is reunited with her family, has eugene by her side, and the villain—mother gothel—is clearly defeated.

it’s simple. it’s showing that good defeats evil; that there is always hope, even when things seem bleak. tangled even follows the traditional narrative style where there is a twist, or low point where we are scared for the heroes (rapunzel going back to mother gothel) but it still doesn’t last. we are scared, but we have hope. 

the payoff for this is happiness with the outcome. it’s the best possible outcome, but it isn’t unrealistic – the bad guys are defeated, put behind bars/fallen out of the tower, and the heroes are safe. we have the feeling that nothing bad could happen to them, because they are happy. it gives the little kids hope. it teaches them a lesson that there is evil, but there is good that can defeat it. 

that’s a fairy tale. kids and young adult storylines, especially in the last few decades, take this and twist it. darken it. make it more like real life. 

for this example, let’s take harry potter, because everybody knows harry potter. once again, there’s a clear good guy (harry), bad guy (voldemort), and a clear problem (voldemort wants to kill harry so harry has to defeat him). the premise is simple enough. however, this is where things get complicated – this is not all harry potter is. 

there are characters like snape, dumbledore, malfoy, to name a few – characters who aren’t clearly good or bad, because good or bad isn’t black and white the way fairy tale show us. in real life, these two are intertwined, and it can sometimes be difficult to say which is which. people die in the end, good people, because even when good wins, it doesn’t win 100%. it teaches the viewer than you can’t have everything – that everything good comes with a bad. the concept of the ying and the yang, almost. there has to be a balance. 

stories about real life tend to be bittersweet, because real life is bittersweet. we don’t defeat the dragon and get the girl, we don’t escape our tower without feeling the repercussions of our isolation for the rest of our lives. the good doesn’t come without the bad. 

and now that we know the basic difference between the two concepts, let’s apply this to julie and the phantoms. (under the cut because this is getting a little long)

jatp is a tv show originally targeted at young kids, which is one big important thing that sometimes gets overlooked in posts theorising/discussing the show. most of the viewers, especially on tumblr (aka the ones who analyse the show the most) aren’t kids. some of us don’t even usually watch kids’ shows, so we’re coming from backgrounds of ya, of where things aren’t black and white, where bad things happen to good people because that’s how it works in the real world. 

if that’s the approach to julie and the phantoms, there is no way the boys become real. there is no way that something like this—something so inherently good—happens. even if it does, then it comes with a hefty toll. there has to be payback. there has to be a balance. 

it’s still a wholesome, family show, so the expectation could be that the boys cross over, find happiness that way. it’s nice enough, but it’s sad for julie – it’s her losing even more people she loves. jatp is about julie’s grief, to an extent, and it’s a vital part to julie – her grieving her mother and learning how to live with the hole in her heart. it’s only natural to show that grief doesn’t need to be the end of things, that you can grieve in a healthy way where it doesn’t put a pause on the things you love, right?

no. i mean, yes, but no. 

it’s a story they’re doing with julie’s mother. julie getting over grief is julie getting over her mother’s death, and we’re already being shown how much she has improved on dealing with that. this is the lesson that everything bad comes to an end, that you can move on even if your heart has been broken. life goes on. you heal. things get better. 

isn’t that a fairy tale lesson? that the good outweighs the bad, defeats it, until everything is well again?

if we’re taking the concept of rapunzel, julie would actually be eugene – the hero saving the good guys (luke, alex, reggie) from the bad guy (caleb). this has already, to an extent, happened – with nothing other than the power of love. whether it was their love for music, their love for one another, it was love. it was devotion. 

good defeated the bad. 

there’s also willie, who may not have saved the boys by giving them the hug of love, but he risked his own life and freedom to rectify what he’d done (which was an accident, by the way, because all he’s ever wanted was to help and caleb failed him. caleb made him a traitor. but willie fixed it, even if it wasn’t necessarily his fault. i’ll say it was love, too, for alex, aside from just the pure goodness of his heart.)

we don’t know what happened with willie at the end of the first season, but we assume it can’t have been good. there’s the balance, but is it really? we know willie will be fine. we know that the boys will be fine. we know that we can rely on the story to take us to a good place, to make us feel good, to give us an escape into the world where being good actually pays off and we can trust the world. 

i don’t know about you, but i don’t find myself trusting other fictional worlds like this. i always expect that it will hurt me in one way or another, that i will lose someone i love, that someone i love will get hurt and things won’t be the same. i don’t expect this from jatp. i expect happiness, and nothing short of it. 

this trust is the trust kids have in fairy tales. before you’re exposed to the fact that real life doesn’t work like that, it’s comforting to think that good will defeat the bad and things will be okay. it’s comforting. 

jatp is comforting. it doesn’t throw reality at you. it gives you an escape, just like fairy tales did. it convinces you that good defeats the bad. 

fairy tales are meant to show you that if you’re good, you’re going to get a happy ending. that everything can be defeated, even death (snow white? goldilocks?) – they’re teaching kids that things are going to be okay – to have hope – to not give up when things get tough, because they’re going to beat it. 

this is why the boys crossing over isn’t a good message for kids. it shows that even if you do everything in your power, it won’t be enough to keep someone. the boys will never get their chance at normal lives, at fixing things they didn’t have time to. that they will always have died young, with no real future. even if they’re playing with julie, it’s still limited, it’s still not the real thing. 

they’re still dead. they still don’t have a future. the reality is still there, and if they cross over, they will never have that little thing that means everything. 

it’s not right. it feels like they deserve more. it feels like alex deserves having a future with willie, luke deserves having a future with julie, and reggie deserves to be able to communicate with ray, have the positive father figure he’s always wanted (because you can’t tell me this isn’t reggie’s story.) they deserve more than just leaving things without a chance to live. 

a story that talks about how bittersweet life is won’t give this. a fairy tale will. and it will teach that everything and everyone is important, that being loving and caring and kind is enough in the world. that there’s hope. that even if things get tough, that everybody gets what they deserve and nothing less. that life is fair. 

netflix is a kids show. the story of julie and the phantoms is being told to kids. it’s showing kids what life is like, and it’s teaching kids that life isn’t all that bad. it gives hope more than a show that deals with actual reality does – and this is exactly why jatp has become a comfort show so quickly for so many people. 

and especially, brown girls. black girls. gay guys. jatp has got the representation and it would let these kids show that it’s okay to be what they are. that they have a future. that they deserve love just as much as the next person. that they can get their happy ending. that everything is going to be okay. 

tlrd; jatp is better seen as a fairy tale because it gives hope not just to young kids but to everybody, and that’s more important than teaching the lesson that life isn’t black and white. 

[julies-butterflies]

I must admit, sometimes I do feel like a ye olden solider, sending letters to my beloved across the waves during wartime. Oh my dearest Lydia, I hope the kudos and comments crops have been plentiful this season. Your last letter left me weeping. Why must you put poor Reginald through such pain?

(I gotta admit, I still can't believe that I'm talking to you. I've been looking up to your work for so long...it just feels a bit surreal, even now! Glad you like hearing my ramblings! And that you liked my vampire prompt! Did not realize you'd write back when I sent that in. Look at us now, huh?)

(Speaking of prompts, I sent those jukebox and willex ones too. And I loved them both so so much, I shall scream about them more when it is not 2 am because I need sleep)

(Oh and the update of If I Was You!!! Amazing, Stellar, Incredible, Reggie, Carrie, Julie shenanigans is my new favorite thing, DID YOU JUST DOUBLE THE CHAPTER COUNT, and I'm like 90% sure Trevor is in deep trouble with a certain angry jazz ghost. Seriously loving it)

I actually do not remember what it was like to send in 1/5 asks, because I did not get a Tumblr until very reccently! I've always been a nerdy person, but Jatp is my first time being really in a fandom. You gotta do something new in quarantine, right?

Ah yes. Luke and Emily. To me, it just seems obvious that there's so much love between them. Even with all the pain. You get it. You put it down so eloquently.

As for what kind of stories I like to read...it seriously depends on my mood.

I like niche aus, passion projects. Stories where you can just feel the author's love for the world they're inventing. But I tend to lean towards cannonverse. I like ghost stories, it's what drew me to this show in the first place. And I love exploring that concept. (Being forever gone, and always the same...it's just fascinating to me)

Platonic goodness is just WONDERFUL for this show. I will read anything with cuddles. I am touched starved and these kiddos are too, and I will cry about them puppy piling every damn day. Plus there's just some much POTENTIAL for future friendships! I love ones where Flynn and Carrie get to interact with the boys as well. And 90s content, from before and after the orpheum, just hits hard.

I really wasn't expecting to get invested in the couples on this show, but something about them is moving to me. So I do love to read about them. Watching two queer kids who lived during incredibly important areas of queer history find love together after death really hit hard for me, and there's just something so bittersweet about a girl and ghost deciding to love each other for the little time they're given.

I love family dynamics too. Anything with Ray and his seven disaster children, the band and Trevor.... I think Julie and Emily is one of my favorite dynamics to explore. A girl who lost her mother and a mother who lost her son, both grieving but with one able to speak to the dead...it's just very powerful to me.

(And of course, Luke and Emily, but I figured you already knew that)

Mostly...I like seeing the messy stuff. The unexpected consequences, the baggage. I want to see the messy emotions, the grief and anger, the jealously, the disorientation. I look for those glass shards, that might be too sharp to ever be addressed on the show. Not even the big, monumental plot lines just... the harder pieces of life, the little moments that don't fit neatly into a nine episode arc.

I just want to see them live you know? Love, laughter and loss all mixed together.

(One of my all time favorite tropes is "found family gets broken apart by trauma, only to find each other again and come back stronger than ever." I feel like this explains a lot of my taste in fiction)

Thank you for the writing advice. Your words were very motivating. I am trying to begin! I got up the nerve to start working on a little piece. Who knows if it will go anywhere. But it's been nice, to finally put some words on the page.

The POTC au is so freaking good man. The character dynamics are just on FIRE. Everything is broken and messy and the relationships genuinely tug at my heartstrings. It's such a fascinating story. Highly recommend, even with the cliff hangers.

OH HOW COULD I FORGET PAWPRINTER? Man oh man I love all her work. The wheelies art and steals universe is freaking amazing, not an avacado had me in tears (of laughter, till things got surprisingly sad). And All that Remains...slow burn Willex perfection. Jedi Alex and Pilot Willie have my HEART.

I don't think I've read firefall and weneedglitter (or if I have, I'm just not connecting the names to their pieces. I don't always remember author names. it's a problem). I will go look for them though! Cannot wait!

For more recs, I recently binge read We Found Wonderland. I was not mentally prepared for the sheer amount of feelings that gave me. Highly recommend, if you ever want an emotional rollercoaster with an incredibly satisfying end.

Going on to more serious subjects...I'm sorry your family doesn't see your grief for what it is: honest. Better to feel everything quietly, than make it an easily understadnable performance. Fake grief is so easy to spot.

I think of that scene from "Forever," when Buffy breaks down and tells Dawn that she has to keep busy, because if she stops, it means Joyce is really gone. There's a lot of truth there.

On a tangent here but.. there was a very long period in my life when I was told the ways I expressed my emotions were "incorrect". And I found that sometimes, no matter how you show your emotions, you'll always be criticized. Numbness can be called disinterest, but sobbing can be called attention-seeking too. Too big, too small: that jury was impossible to please This may not apply in your situation but...it's okay to feel however you can. It's the only think you can do, really.

As I've said before, Grief is such an odd trickster.

Don't you ever get tired of missing people... This past year, I've been so weary of grief. Sometimes it can be so sharp, but it's that dull ache. That ball and chain, no longer cutting through your skin, but rubbing it raw, weighing you down.

And people don't like to talk about that part, because it's long and tiresome, but oh, is it there. I find it hard to talk about my grief, because sometimes there's just so much of it. I could drown in it, and that fear keeps me from looking to close. To incorrectly quote Jane Austin: "If I missed you a little less, I might be able to talk about it more."

(Sometimes it's faceable. But sometimes you just can't bear it. And that's okay.)

But what you wrote in that eulogy...the love is there. It's in every word you write. I cried reading that section. I feel honored once again to see some of your jagged pieces. You're sharing your heart, and there's just so much love.

In the wise words of an author I know, "Love is like the snow Reggie. It never goes away."

And don't worry, I'm always with you.

Sending Love,

-LydiaStan7845 (aka Vampire Anon)

So...that Reggie and Nicky prompt

my god

my GOD

OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD

I think it's safe to say congrats, you've officially destroyed me! I was not prepared for that at ALL. I should know better by now I guess.

I can't get over that even though they all take place in very different universe, all your stories just feel so connected! The way this talked about those headphones, which you mentioned in the first chapter of Kill Your Heroes...it's just so cool. All the characterization and backstory is just so well thought out, and it genuinely blows my mind.

I didn't think I could love Nicky Peters more. I was wrong. The way you write about him...even though you never go into exactly what happened to him after Reggie's death, you can just feel how much it's shapped him as a person. And the trauma around his father, and how he fears becoming like that, was just so beautifully written. He's just so lovable and flawed and trying so damn hard and you made my heart ache for him. Again.

You always take these genuinely crazy situations and...you just make them feel so real. I love you explore the strains such a revelation would put on Nicky's own life, it just makes everything so compellingly messy. It seriously feel like I was watching a real-life account of a family trying to deal with such a massive complication.

That porch scene had me in tears both times I read it. Reggie's just always a big brother, even though Nicky is more than twice his age now. My heart was shattered, and then you slowly mended it, piece by piece. And for absolutely no reason at all, you wouldn't happen to have a reference for the porch, would you?

Just wow. Hope you're doing well. Sending love and applause

-Vampire Anon

i’m not even gonna reply, but i want these documented... on my blog... for posterity.  ( for any curious onlookers, i’m dating this anon now!! )

[pivoineecarlate]

I fell asleep last night and forgot to post the rest my answers to THIS post about my hopes and « headcanons » for each JATP character in season 2, so here we go :

- Flynn : my girl deserves more screentime ! I believe there is way more to her that the comedic, loyal best friend role. I would like her to be able to see or communicate in a way with the ghosts outside of just when they’re performing. Same for the end of S1 i believe she will continue to be the voice of reason and encourage Julie to make the right choices. She deserve a solo of some kind, dancing, singing and all for sure ! I would also really like to see her family.

- Carrie : Definately on the path of redemption, but i think she won’t be outright « nice » from the beginning. I want her to found out about the band being ghosts, and at first she might go back to her old ways and try to expose them and bring down the whole hologram act, but later she discovers the boys’ history with her father and realize that by exposing them, everyone will know Bobby/Trevor stole Luke’s songs and built his legacy on a lie. And i think this will be the point where she actively loses the mean girl demeanor and try to help Julie with whatever the hell is happening with Nick and Caleb. She’s probably going to be the first to notice something wrong with Nick, and maybe « meet » Caleb as she tries to get back with him now that he isn’t all supportive of Julie all of a sudden. And maybe Caleb is the one who will make her want to expose the band. I want her fully on the good side by the end though ! Also maybe a ballad song for her ? I want her to do something outside of dirty candi for once.

- Nick : to be very honest, i have no idea where the show is gonna go with the whole possession plot. He’s probably going to be obviously out of character sometimes, either suddenly dancing super smoothly, or talking weird, or dressing so differently ; raising the doubts in the other characters’ minds. I also really want him to still have little moments of lucidity and take back the control of his body, maybe right before Caleb is about to do or say something and « save the day » until he loses control again. Like i said for Caleb, i think the main plan is going to be maybe making Julie lose her confidence and maybe trust for the band, weakening the bond and magic that brings them together. So Nick needs to lose his super supportive side and maybe act colder with Julie as time goes. I’m not a fan of love triangles so i hope Caleb won’t use Nick as a jalousy thing between Luke and Julie.

- Carlos : he definately knows about the band now so more interactions between him and the boys !! I believe he will try his best to help when the big drama happens, willing to put himself at risk for his sister and her ghost friends. I think him being actively trying to help might result in Ray finding out about the ghost stuff, and i like to see him try to cover for the band at first and ultimately failing because he just can’t lie to his dad.

- Ray : finishing up with the best dad ! First he’s still going to be in the dark about everything at first. I think he might be dating someone (the only explaination has to why he was at the bar in Finally Free) and maybe this will come into play? Somehow? Maybe Julie founds out and feels betrayed because she promised to share (almost) everything with her dad and he’s the one hiding things from her. I need him to be aware of the ghost shenanigans before the end of S2 though, because i need him to aknowledge Reggie and be like a true father figure to this cute ghost boy. Also please let him stay unhurt by Caleb !

Voilà, that’s it !! My thoughts are a mess, most of this probably didn’t make sense but Anon did ask about every characters so i couldn’t let them down !

What are your hopes for season 2 and plot points you wish to see ?

[peachpitmp3]

so true on all accounts!!

i- yeah,, there really isn't a way to make all of the post s1e9 fics canon :/ but that's okay!! (unless they do something really bad and in that case we'll all reject canon and destroy netflix for ruining our comfort show :D)

carrie is an interesting character, because i love her a lot. but that's not the same exact carrie as in canon, and yeah, they definitely need to address the things she did. my favorite kind of flarrie fics are the ones where she apologizes and they actually work towards repairing their relationship, otherwise it feels a little fake or not super realistic.

and yeah!!!! new music and soundtrack would be awesome!! and yep, i know what you mean with expectations. obviously they have some limits in terms of travel and time, but still !! would be very cool to hear more studio recordings, or really any original music

wishes for season 2: flarrie flarrie flarrie- and more attention to julie!! i love the boys, but it's kinda sad that white boys seem to be the face of the fandom a bit :// defeating caleb! ray adopting the himbos! willex content! there's. a lot shgslkdjf

biggest fears: the show getting cancelled, and it's hard to say specifically,, but i guess anything that would really derail what we all consider to be canon? flynn getting a love interest that isn't carrie, somehow confirming that she/they flynn and he/they willie aren't canon, tHE BOYS CROSSING OVER WAIT-

what are your biggest fears for season 2? oo and what's a somewhat specific headcanon that you really really want to be included in s2? - 🌵

okay first of all anon can i just say i absolutely adore you because you are so thoughtful about all your answers (this isn't just cause i agree with everything you said)

i completely agree with what you said about carrie. whenever i rewatch, i'm a little bit thrown off because of how mean she is. like, in jatp tumblr as thoughtful and as good at analysis as everyone is, i feel like people tend to just make carrie seem super sympathetic and relatable. and i get it!! she's easy to project on!! but you can't erase that she was legitimately awful and a bully to flynn and julie, and i just hope that gets actually addressed in season 2. i agree with what you said about flarrie fics!! fics that actually address and take time to repair the cracks in that relationship are so thoughtful and amazing to read, even if they do sometimes take a little bit more energy to get through.

flarrie in season 2 would be absolutely amazing, but right now i'm trying to come to terms with the fact that it's probably not gonna happen. and that's fine, we arleady have so many amazing ships, but after spending so much time talking about it, it's gonna be weird to see it not happening. and on that note, it is gonna be SO weird if flynn gets a datemate who isn't carrie, or honestly even just a boyfriend since i see her as a lesbian.

what you said about more attention to julie– yes. i couldn't agree more. the boys are adorable himbos and i love them, but it's julie and the phantoms, and she is such an amazing character that she deserves to be the center of the story and the center of attention. i adore her <3

i'm a bit worried for how long they'll extend the whole caleb possessing nick storyline- i don't want julie to get hurt or be sad, even though i know it's probably a bit inevitable lol. and yes yes yes, ray adopting the himbos!! i would adore that!! also, more carlos and the boys content would be so funny. and last but not least, if we don't get a willex kiss in season 2 i'm suing <3 also a willex duet mayhaps

oh my gosh if the boys crossed over... ugh. i don't know. i think it depends on how they get there, but also it would just be really soon, especially if season 2 is as short as season 1. julie deserves more time with her boys!!!

a somewhat specific headcanon i guess would be bi julie and bi reggie. both of them are SO bi-coded that i just need it to be confirmed, yknow?

what's a headcanon you have in mind? and also, where would you want caleb's character to go in season 2? would you want him to get a redemption arc or just be defeated? there are so many possibilities...

[lucifer--deckerstar]

Ok I've gone and written down my thoughts on JatP in extensive detail 😅 here they are!

Omgg that was AMAZING!!

I'm gonna go point by point as the thoughts come to mind lol

- Music was IMPECCIBLE!!! 😍😍 my favorites are Wake Up and Edge of Great. They all have such amazing voices!! Especially Julie and Luke (on that subject later lol). The lyrics were AMAZING! I believe I posted about it RIGHT AWAY as I listened to Wake Up, that song hit a chord for me! So beautiful, I have it on constant repeat, no shame! I liked all of the songs, but Wake Up and Edge of Great just HIT DIFFERENT

- I was conflicted until episode 7 on whether or not I shipped Julie with Nick or Luke. However, the moment episode 7 started, I was done for!! There was never any denying their incredible chemistry, how she pushed him with his parents, how she supported him and the band finding peace, even if that meant she'd lose him and the guys forever, and how they just sang so beautifully together 😍

- lmaoo I had some WACK theories on this show 🤣 lord, someone should've just told me to calm down, wouldn't have minded lol I think I'm just too used to watching shows with plot twists after plot twists. My stupidest prediction was thinking Julie's dad was going to end up being the 4th band member that survived, Bobby 🙈 after actually meeting older Bobby, I still didn't learn and came up with the theory that somehow Carrie and Julie were going to end up being half sisters through the mom (I mean maybe? Lol the show could go this route if they wanted to mend their friendship, though it was nice to see Carrie give Julie and the Phantoms a standing ovation in that last episode)

- WILLEX!!!! Holy wow 😍😍 first of all, I LOVE Booboo Stewart so the moment he came on screen with Alex, I dropped EVERYTHING and shipped them! I shipped Alex with Reggie at first, and even when seeing their interactions throughout; it would be so awesome if Reggie came out as bi or queer. But man, the angst with Willex and how they were sooo cute 😍😍 I love it! I hope they recover their friendship if we get a season 2 (uhh question here.. why hasn't it been renewed????) and hopefully explore Willie's feelings and have Alex declare his!

- THIS ENTIRE INTERACTION 🤣🤣🤣 one of my favorites scenes:

Luke sings "Edge of Great" with passion to Reggie to prove he has chemistry with everyone he sings with

Reggie: that was hot!

Luke: *kisses his fingers and places them on Reggie's lips*

Reggie: *shook* Girls! am I right?

Luke: Yeah!

Alex: No!

🤣😭 DEAD!!!!!!!!!

- I REALLY don't like Caleb and I REALLY don't like how he's so powerful and took over Nick's body! Scared but excited to to see where this goes! That being said, I wonder what it was that he had so against the band? I feel like he's somehow more connected than we know right now. Like he went through a lot of trouble just for 3 guys in a band 🤔 but that could really just be me overanalyzing!

- I LOVE JULIE'S BROTHER CARLOS!!! HE'S THE CUTEST 😍😍😍 the entire family, including the aunt, are just the best, I love it!

- The energy that Flynn brings to the show!!! Omgg I love it 😍 like who doesn't need the all supportive, amazing, funny af but serious when need be best friend that Julie has??

~

Ok lol I think I'm about done 😂 sorry! Would LOVE discussing this show with people! Some great opportunities already and lots of discussion!