#i need to contextualize this kind of information and duolingo says No Context Ever

[whetstonefires]

duolingo teaches me such batshit things and because they've removed all the tips and grammar fact pages and like, actual information from their app over the years i just have to sit with having been trained like a dog to understand that the mandarin for for japan (日本) is 'reuben.'

like. the sandwich.

[maltedmilkchocolate]

How to learn a new language? I sure wish I knew. I got lucky with Japanese. But I’ve never had that luck with anything else.

Does Duolingo actually work as a learning tool for you? What about other apps? I try and use them but... I just??? I don’t feel like I learn anything beyond how to order the words correctly to not get the obnoxious sound telling u u suck. I don’t feel like i’m taking in any information, and the word selections seem so random, and often skips a word out entirely from the group. 

Why am I learning miscellanious vocab straight away, instead of things that actually matter?? “The boy buys the bread”? Why not start with “I buy the bread/I bought the bread”, or “My mother buys the bread.” The weird cluster style of random nouns and random verbs with no real contextual use is how language classes were always structured during highschool. And I never learnt a damned thing. Even at a language school my family saved for me to go to because they didn’t want me to only know English... a school *designed* to teach european languages.... couldn’t teach me Spanish.

It seems to also be how every single language app I’ve found structures themselves too. I’ve been learning Japanese for like five years now, and the way in which we’re taught is entirely different. You get a themed group of nouns and verbs. The easy start is the alphabet and writing system, then next stage is introductions, and then it follows into everyday useable questions.  “I’m a student.” “[Name] works for company.” “Who is that person?” “Who’s bag is this?” “Where is the Place/Object/Person?” How to tell the time. Action verbs like buy, go, do, say. Important nouns like places and objects that fit the context of the particular grammar being taught for that lesson.

Every new noun, verb, adjective had relevance to a specific lesson theme centred around a specific set of grammar structures. They didn’t use the standardised testing which uses abstract sentences that no way actually reflects what’s said in real life.

Why did I just learn man, woman, girl, boy? And then immediately learn Apple, Water, Bread, Juice? With no further context.

Why does “The Girl drink the juice?” When will I say this? “Is this juice?” “No, it’s alcohol” - would be better. “What drink is this?” “It’s orange juice.” - Also good. “Who is that man?” “It’s Mr. Sanches.” - Awesome. That’d be helpful to learn from the immediate get go. Give me the ability to create a useable sentence, and gain information from the answer.

Not an abstract observation. The girl drinks juice. She sure does. Now how does that help me navigate el supermercado????

Being able to learn something that has immediate value, is so much more beneficial than an abstract introductory sentence that... only really serves to learn vocabularly. And I can do that with flash cards. I’m sure this structure servers an actual tried and true purpose... I mean millions of people have learnt via this method, so it logically has to have some value. But it doesn’t for me. I am literally incapable of learning in that unhelpful manner, but I can never find anywhere that offers something different like my Japanese course does.

I learnt spanish for.... almost 10 years as a child. You know, that age range where your brain is meant to be a language sponge, the ‘best time’ to learn??? I barely remember a sentence. I couldn’t tell you how to conjugate a verb at all. But I can tell you my birthday. Mi cumpleaños es el treinta y uno de mayo. I learnt french for three years in highschool, and I can’t even remember how to ask ‘How much is the bus to X?’, let alone say “Can I buy one ice cream, please?”

I’ve been to these countries more than I have ever been to Japan, and I needed to know these things, and I just... didn’t. And not for lack of trying. It’s really embarrassing to have your family pressure you to be the one asking all the questions when you don’t know how to ask them, just because you’re the one learning. It’s really depressing when you’re a kid, and you make a friend, and you can’t talk to her because you don’t know anything beyond como se llama? I’m will die mad about that. Her family was really kind though, bought us time on a trampoline thing, so I got her flowers to say thank you cause my tiny child brain was like ‘this is the correct way to show you’re grateful.’ It’s frustrating that so many language courses are structured to pass tests, and aren’t structured to be functional.

I learnt japanese for five+ years as an adult, and I can hold a conversation. It’s not a great conversation, but I can hold one. I can write essays, and terrible fictional stories too. I can write blog journals and cringe at my bad grammar, but there IS grammar.  The only reason I got that far is because the method of teaching valued context and immediate real life useability, over generic word acquisition. The text books had an entirely different structure and focus on how they introduced grammar, and vocabulary within the context of that grammar. And that wasn’t even the mark of five years studying. That was Lessons 1 through to 10. Not even half way through the beginners text book, and it gave me enough to talk about my hobbies, gave me enough to request to do something, gave me enough to ask where to go, what to buy, and whether or not I was able to do something. A childs level conversation. “Let’s get lunch together.” 一緒に昼ご飯を食べましょう。(Lesson 6 - Elementary 1)

Nearly 10 years of Spanish and I never knew how to make that suggestion. 5 days of Japanese and I could. The way in which language courses are taught MATTERS. Structure matters. Context, and usability matters.

I love learning languages. I really do. I keep trying to find a text book that functions the same way as Minna no Nihongo does, and I haven’t found one yet, or maybe i just really suck at googling... If you actually read this rant, and know a good text book/course for learning Spanish, let me know.

But for so, so long, I vehemently hated spanish. I hated it because I spent years learning, and never learnt a damned thing despite trying so hard. To the point I quit because I couldn’t handle failing again and again, and I felt so bad about my family flushing money we didn’t actually have to waste down the drain. But I’d like to try again. If i can find somewhere or something that doesn’t use the standard methods, I want to try again. Why should a failed decade worth of education amount to nothing? I’ll learn it out of spite if I have to for the sake of my childhood self. I’d like to learn a few other languages too. But I don’t want to waste money on courses that churn out the same old shitty methods that don’t work. “Why don’t you teach yourself, and make your own method?” You might ask. Because i’m ADHD and i need the accountability of a teacher, or deadline, or expense to keep me moving forward.

I need a structure that actually works.