#i may not agree with green fans and find many to be lowkey abhorrent but im not a barbarian

[elliemuze]

I do agree and completely understand you're not actually defending him. (I despise him, too.)

The ugly truth is that, yes, upbringing plays a huge part in shaping the person we become. And your post by no means excuses his behavior (because there is no excuse), but rather ponders potential explanations. And I do feel like what you've mentioned is a completely valid explanation.

Before Alicent completely poisoned him, Aegon II seemed to be your average douchebag teenager, which is a stage that most people tend to grow out of. But because of that poisoning, because of neglect and straight up abuse, it's like he dug his claws in deeper and held fast, desperate for any validation whatsoever, to the point he began taking that affection by force. That's the clinical analysis of it, of course, while the very blatant, layman reality is that he's become a monster who rapes girls, seeks entertainment through child fight clubs (of which some of his own illegitimate children are enslaved), ignores his sister/wife and their children, and treats everyone in his vicinity like offal.

I do find it gutwrenchingly tragic that he's retained some level of self-awareness. (Tragic in the archaic sense, not "aw, poor baby!") Because when even the weasely little rapist man finds the whole affair to be contemptibly stupid and knows his father would've never changed his mind to name him heir, much less last minute, that's gotta be SOME kind of wake-up call. (Alas, it isn't.) He is viscerally aware of how broken he is - that he's become the embodiment of human fecal matter and needs help/intervention, but no one is listening to him and frankly just enable him. This includes his mother most of all, despite how she's occasionally disparaged him for his actions. Viserys is also accountable in many ways, of course, not just Alicent. No matter how much fans loved him, myself included, he dropped the ball in a big way. That being said, we the audience never really got to witness those exchanges. Like what came first, chicken or egg? Or, in this case, did Viserys actually try to impress noble qualities upon his son, saw it was to no avail, and so threw in the towel while unofficially disinheriting him? We're to presume he neglected his newest children from the start, which imo is a fair presumption, given how even Aegon II knew his father didn't like him and even Viserys himself refers to Rhaenyra as his only child (granted, he's eyeball deep in Poppy Milkshakes at the time). But Viserys did seem proud and delighted with his son when Aegon II was a toddler. Then again, it's easy when they're babies and you have a team of people helping you raise them. Perhaps much of it was simply performative, too, who knows? Because again, we the audience were never really privy to any of that nuance with our own eyes, and must rely on these few characters to paint a picture for us.

What really irks me is that, while Alicent also unofficially disinherited him, saying he was no son of hers, in the end it meant literally nothing. Ignoring how she herself is partially responsible for the man he's become, when you disown your child for doing something truly heinous (objectively a good thing), but then turn around and move heaven and earth to break law, usurp the throne, and crown that same child King, you possess no righteousness at all, actually. Your scruples are conditional and you're a hypocrite. Like, if you're gonna be a traitor, at least install the better son?? I don't like Aemond (I do think he's a great character), but he's obviously the better choice by a landslide. Even Otto's bullshit line of "we do this for the safety of the realm" falls flat, because yeah we know it's a lie and the Hightowers are just power-hungry dicks, but Aemond would clearly be better for the realm in every possible way rather than his brother. Like y'all couldn't control him before, and now you put a crown on his head and hand him the keys to the kingdoms? How tf do you think this is gonna go?

At the end of the day, it remains a fine line, the way I see it. The dichotomy surrounding upbringing, or nature vs nurture. Parents are, in some fashion, responsible for the actions of their children and how they behave. (Just look at how Alicent's children act compared to Rhaenyra's. Although I don't count Helaena in this, because she seems to be a genuinely good if lonely person who keeps to herself.) That being said, there does come a point when that child is a full-grown adult, responsible for their own actions.

And because I do think there's a degree of correlation, I understand why many fans are upset over the moral-whitewashing of Team Green, too (particularly Alicent). While it does add more nuance, it's still a double-edged sword imo. Because then you run into the problem of victimizing abusers. The truth is that, yes, people are complex and often never just black and white, and you can absolutely run with that because it's compelling af. But on the flipside of that is just as I said - it feels like the narrative itself is trying desperately to give Alicent/Team Green, and even Aegon II a foothold. Because from what we the audience have seen... morally and lawfully it's no contest, even though the writers and some fans would love for you to believe otherwise. (To clarify - in terms of overall "teams," not necessarily individual characters.)

My point is, in pushing this angle (clumsily, at that), really all they did was make her more of a hypocrite and repugnantly complicit. The writers seem to be focusing on the wrong nerve bundles, even if their intentions may be sincere. The message that should be made abundantly clear: "just because you're not wrong doesn't mean you're right" is getting lost. Instead, they focus on emotional torture porn to garner shock and sympathy, then gloss over the fact that these characters are still enabling reprehensible things. Both narratives can respectably coexist, but the balance needs a lot of work. Cuz yes, at the start of the series, Alicent was absolutely a victim, that's indisputable. But instead of blaming the person(s) actually responsible, she took it out on other people and hit the ground running, barreling whole-hog into civil war. The victim became the abuser. In fairness, that does happen. Constantly. It's devastating. But so far, I've personally been unimpressed with how the narrative has handled these complex issues. (I will give Alicent credit tho for ep. 9 in realizing a lot of her mistakes and trying to protect Rhaenyra's family, even if, just like with Aegon, those words end up carrying little to no weight.)

And some will certainly argue that Team Black has been "sanitized," too, which may very well be true. I haven't read the book myself as of yet, but my perspective is built upon the collective reports of those who did (on both sides). Given the unreliable narrator(s), I really don't believe the in-show sanitization of both Houses are comparable. Because those narrators, if I understand correctly, are the enemies of Team Black. Of course they're going to make Rhaenyra and her supporters look hellish and unsavory. But those same narrators would have no reason to make Team Green out to be villains. So if most readers are under the blanket perception that all of Team Green are categorically the "bad guys," to me, that not only speaks for itself, but says a whole hell of a lot.

When your own allies retell a war with rose-colored spectacles firm in place and you're still somehow the most hated/criticized House rather than the one your allies had every reason to paint like nasty gremlins?

Fucking yikes, bestie!

Anyways, fuck. I rambled for way too long and tripped down too many tangents, I'm ever so sorry. I didn't mean to derail from your original message, OP. I sincerely agree with your interpretation. 💜

(In fact, I'd say it's just canon fact, but these shows have so many leftfield twists, I'm covering all my bases lol.)

Aegon II Rant

I am sorry to be that person because anything relating to SA is non-defensible to me, but I feel like this needs to be said. Is it possible Aegon's behaviour is just a cry for attention?! I mean he is in constant need of reassurance ("Do you love me?" "You imbecile") as well as feeling undervalued ("I did not ask for this. I've done everything you've asked me to… It will never be enough for you or father."), and he is constantly being pushed into something he KNOWS he's unfit for. Furthermore, everybody keeps telling him in subtle ways he's not right for it too (his mother disinherits him, his father doesn't give two s*its about him, his sister/wife detests him in the sweetest way because Helaena and one of his brothers YES THERE ARE TWO OF THEM agrees that he's unfit). He knows that the crown in a death sentence saw the way it absolutely destroyed Viserys. And yet he has been pushed towards it, has done anything and everything to forget his existence and how he is inching closer and closer to a destiny he wishes he can run away from. It's like watching a live-action trainwreck, an interesting one, but a trainwreck nonetheless. Moreover, he is constantly in a fight or flight response thanks to being force-fed this narrative that his nephews and older sister will kill him just because he exists. He is forced to marry his younger sister despite not being attracted to her whatsoever, actively ignores her (as she tells us during the feast scene) and probably could not care less about his children, all to reach a goal that is not his?! He has been telling us, since ep 5 I think, that he does not want the throne. And although he does pull a Jon Snow *insert 'I Don't Want It' gif here* Jon had something that Aegon II does not have, which is some sliver of support, a family who loves him and actual friends. This boy is so isolated and had absolutely no self-confidence whatsoever that it makes me sad at times. Because if Alicent really wants to say he is no son of hers when he SA's that girl, then she has to acknowledge that every step she took, every horrible thing she has whispered in his ear during his entire life, has led him here, has made him this shell of a white dude who I couldn't hate more.

It really brings forth the concept of nature vs. nurture for me, because we've seen him be a relatively normal boy, joking around with his nephews and playing pranks on his brother. But then he evolved into this, and it breaks my f*cking heart and makes me mad as hell. (I will refer you to this Philip Larking poem).

Yet, I find myself feeling somewhat sorry for him sometimes, despite him being a horrible, rancid human being. Shoutout to the actor, because as soon as people started cheering for Aegon I saw the flicker of somesuch emotion in his eyes and it made me shiver, because yes, this boy just wants acceptance despite being horrid. Thank you Tom Glynn-Carney for making me hate you and love you at the same time!