#i love loreen and i think her song deserved a win but not when käärijä deserved it so much more

[multiakimo]

i definitely think that if anyone deserves to be the first woman to ever win eurovision twice its loreen, but bro.... not like this 😭 

käärijä is the real winner this year, fuck the international jury

[gatalentan]

had a nap. am not hungover despite the tequila. final eurovision thoughts roundup in order before i shift back into abbott mode:

juries need to be reworked. its been known for many years at this stage and we can no longer pretend 5 people is a representative sample worth the same weight as the thousands per country who vote. if you tried to use 5 people as a representative sample in any other scenario you'd get laughed out of the room. they aren't eurovision experts, they're not like the panel at a gymnastics competition or something, they're just complete music industry randoms. when the two boards are this disprate it is stark evidence that the juries do not represent the music taste of the country and are given too much weight compared to the thousands of votes. it's like we watched two completely different shows. they're out of touch, corruptable, and value "art value" (ballads) over what the viewing public actually values (being entertained on the entertainment show). it does not prevent bloc/diaspora voting because the juries do that just as much if not more, as we saw last year with the jury corruption scandal. it's just last year they got caught. this may be the straw that broke the camels back with the juries and i hope it is.

käärijä would not have won with the old combined system because despite getting more 12s in the public than loreen, he received so many low jury scores whereas loreen conversely received many 10s from the public. he would have won if we only had the public vote, and with a historic 2nd highest score ever tied with Sobral. it's unmistakably the juries that are the issue.

i'm happy loreen won, that's my girl, but i would have been just as happy for käärijä to win, too. i would have prefered käärijä to have won than this outcome, however, because her win is now tainted forever and will not be seen as legitimate by such a large swathe of eurofans. the amount of vitriol i'm seeing towards her, as if she manufactured this outcome, is making me so angry. as if she's the first winner to ever return, as if there isn't decades of precedent for it. her returning isn't new or special, and she was chosen by the voting public of her country in one of the most rigorous pre-esc contests, melodifestivalen. she wasn't chosen by internal selection for gimmick reasons, like the uk sending a tiktok celebrity to chase clout. so the way the historic first ever double win for a queer woman of colour has been fucked up in such a way due to a broken system is just. not the tea. i really hope she has a good support system around her in the next few weeks because she's going to end up wrongly having to shoulder so much of the blame.

show thoughts:

overall line-up fantastic, so strong I couldn't predict the bottom. a very deserved no-nil year. the fact this line-up was down to public voting rather than jury interference does not escape my notice, either.

flag parade was a really fun time and loved seeing the old guard. a shame ruslana couldnt be there but loved seeing her in the interval vt. loved seeing tina karol also, underrated by everyone except us diehard fags lol.

show was way too uk centric. despite kalush performing the intro video was all about us and our shit celebrities. sam ryder should not have gotten a solo performance and the interval should not have been about liverpudlian acts. even julia's participation was diminished from what we saw in the semis - they should have had her in the green room instead of alesha or hannah if they were going to bring in graham as a 4th. the uk did not win in 2022 and that wasn't highlighted. it was very disrespectful to ukraine's win.

the interval was a poor attempt to piggyback off of Switch Song which i dont think will ever be topped, tbqh. I am, however, so happy Dadi Freyr finally got to perform at a final after two runs that were out of his hands. It was very funny having him perform Atomic Kitten, of all things, however, lmao.

hannah was a phenomenal host in general, one of the best there's been in modern day. similar to nikkie tutorials being a great host, there's a skill to seeming relaxed and open to improvisation that most hosts do not have. comparing her to alesha dixon was night and day. it was comfortable to watch hannah because she was just inviting the audience to have fun with her. graham has this same skill because he does it on his show. other countries should take note of this and choose hosts that aren't just people who can read an autocue but instead people who are light on their feet.

hannah and graham were a fantastic duo in the jury votes, it was the first time in memory where i've enjoyed watching the hosts kiki during it instead of me going wandering around getting drinks or eating. except for hatari they didn't seem stressed about time constraints or miffed about spokespeople going over the way most hosts are and it made for a much more comfortable experience because they were just vibing. it was nice. it was like having friends in the room pulling faces.

the jury rep who said "this was an exciting night for the girls and the gays" absolutely fucking sent me to pluto.

overall i enjoyed the show, one of the most enjoyable there's been, but yeesh. the way this esc may end up being a turning point year is so fucking unfortunate.

[eurovision-del]

So how about those results! It was a real rollercoaster watching the show tonight!

Top 5

Sweden: I have always said that Tattoo is a good song, and Loreen a great artist, and I still feel that way. She deserves to have her win be celebrated. Sweden also did come second in the televote, although a fair margin behind Finland – that’s a better result than in 2015 where they came third in televote and won thanks to the jury, and no one questions Måns Zelmerlöw’s victory. I struggle to unravel all my feelings about it from the fact that she’s a returning winner – it shouldn’t matter in theory, but I really believed that in the modern system nothing like that would happen. Personally I like how Eurovision introduces me to new artists I’d never hear otherwise, so unless it’s someone I really like with a great song, I generally don’t like it when artists return, and it feels even harsher when it’s a previous winner – however as others have rightly said, Eurovision is a competition, not a charity, there’s no requirement for it to be ‘fair’ in that way. I will say that it does seem to have jeopardised her reputation, going from one of, if not the most beloved Eurovision winner, to the person who was pushed by the jury and robbed the much preferred televote favourite. However, I’m curious how this result will look in hindsight after a few years once everything has settled down.

Finland: I’m so proud of him for securing Finland’s second best result. After the televote I really believed he might have done enough? 376 was the same score Salvador Sobral got back in 2017, and is the second highest televote score ever after Kalush Orchestra’s last year. Loreen’s 340 from the Jury, while still very high, is less than both Måns and Salvador both got. Unfortunately it was not to be. I loved every second of Käärijä’s performance, I couldn’t have asked for anything more. I hope his career flourishes after this – he may not have won Eurovision but he’ll always be one of the most iconic entries we’ve ever had.

Israel: Honestly, I’m not happy about this! I don’t enjoy the song, and while I could respect some technical aspects of Noa’s performance it did nothing for me. And yet this came third – second in juries yet actually scoring even more points in the televote! Choices. After a couple of years of feeling satisfied with the top 5, or at least that it was justified, my luck definitely ran out this year.

Italy: Also surprised me a little, although Marco is a fantastic performer. I do wonder if between Marco and Loreen other artists will be encouraged to return. I think he also got the most equal points distribution between Televote and Juries, which I wouldn’t have expected, but Due Vite clearly resonated with a lot of people, and I have to admit even I was feeling it too. Even if it’s a little higher than I’d have put it, this feels a reasonable result.

Norway: Yeah, based on fan reaction it seemed reasonable to expect her to come top five, although the discrepancy between her televote and jury was huge! I was happy to see her reaction after getting so much love from the public though. Again, not my favourite song, but I’m ok with this result.

Other Countries

United Kingdom: Ah, something so comfortingly familiar about the bottom of the scoreboard… For real I was a little disappointed by this, but the performance, especially the vocals, just weren’t strong enough. I really, desperately hope that despite this the renewed interest in Eurovision in this country isn’t replaced by a backlash in response to this result – we won’t always do well, that doesn’t mean we should stop trying.

Germany: Another huge disappointment – after years of what I felt were deserved bottom five placements, Germany finally send something I love, something that seems to have some fan buzz… and still get last place. I loved every second of Lord of the Lost’s performance, it was one of those songs that sounds even better live. I really hope Germany aren’t discouraged by this, and continue to send interesting, unique acts instead of retreating to bland, ‘radio-friendly’ pop.

Spain: Sometimes you take risks, sometimes they don’t pay off. This came dead last in the televote! I think it’s a real shame, although I can understand how the song could be alienating to people. I’m so grateful to the juries for appreciating it, putting it in their top 10, which is exactly what that vocal performance deserved as far as I’m concerned. Again, I don’t want any country to be discouraged from taking a risk and sending something out of the box, even if it doesn’t pay off, it will still find it’s fans outside the contest.

Austria: This came bottom five in the televote! (Technically fourth from bottom, tied with Portugal and Serbia). Sometimes It’s easy to get caught up in the fan bubble – I don’t mind at all, the surprise is all part of the fun, if the fans got it right all the time the show would be boring. However, I have to say I’m so grateful to the juries for seeing this one through – mid-table was actually about what I was expecting, although I was expecting it to get a reasonable televote and a lower jury. I wonder if this is the impact of running order – aside from Poland the first few songs all scored very poorly in the televote. I’m very curious to see what sort of result it got in the semi-final – even though competing against different songs is a factor, if the difference in votes is huge I’ll feel running order definitely played a part. However, there’s every chance that I was wrong about how much broad appeal this had in general.

Belgium: I think I need to make a collection of songs that I did not care for when they won their national final, then ranked mid in my rankings, and ended up rooting for them all the way in the competition – Denmark and Portugal 2021 would both also be examples. I was actually ecstatic to see Belgium pick up some douze points from the juries, and to see him end up in the top 10 overall. What a journey this entry has been on, the narrative of Gustaph going from backing singer to lead, the underdog beating out fan faves in the national final and get dismissed, only to win everyone over throughout pre-party season and end up where he did on the night. I’m so sorry Gustaph that I ever doubted you – you and your feel-good throwback bop have all my love.

Other Thoughts

It was nice that there were no nil points, not even from just jury or televote – everyone got something. In fact, everyone got double digits! Even so, no redemption for the entire big five, in fact they mostly did worse than I and many others within the fandom predicted. I think we need to scrap the pre-qualification – I actually think it does us no favours not having to qualify. Everyone else who made the final this year proved they had some level of televote appeal – the big five then get slotted in around those entries in the final. Competing in the semi-finals is still competing in Eurovision – we’re never gonna get another Germany 1996 again. It’s time we scrapped this outdated way of doing things.  

Even if the juries were ultimately responsible for deciding the winner, I still don’t want to do away with them. Juries seem less susceptible to running order, they support songs that are technically brilliant but might not resonate with viewers like Spain this year, even if I don’t agree with all the decisions they make. Even if I’m not too keen on the overall top 10 this year, I prefer having Australia in the top 10 to having Poland (who were top 10 with the televote). It’s the same way I feel every year – the system isn’t perfect, and the way juries are set up could do with an overhaul, increased numbers, more varied members etc. – but as far as I’m concerned it’s still better than televote only.

I did feel the show could have done with more Ukraine – the mix of Ukraine vs UK content in the semis was a little skewed to the UK but I could overlook it, however I felt really uncomfortable seeing Sam Ryder get the interval act position that the previous winner usually gets, while Kalush Orchestra were left as an opener. Honestly? Sam shouldn’t have been there at all, or at least not as anything more than a small guest appearance. It was right that a Ukrainian act opened, but they should also have had the main interval act spot too. The host balance also was wrong, especially once Graham joined in too. I think Alesha Dixon should have been replaced by another Ukrainian host to join Julia Sanina, I thought Hannah Waddingham did a great job so wouldn’t want to replace her, but there should have been an equal number of Ukranian and UK hosts at least in the final – and having two to one Ukrainian to UK hosts in the semis would have made sense – Ukraine did win last year after all.

The televote seems to have well and truly given up on rock, with both Germany and Australia doing very poorly in it, Australia only making the top 10 thanks to juries (another reason I’m glad for juries despite everything!) Maybe all the rock votes went to Finland instead – I have to admit that’s what I did. I really hope this doesn’t last, I love rock and Eurovision, and both Måneskin and Blind Channel proved it can do well. I don’t want 2021 to have been a fluke.

Closing Thoughts

I’m feeling mixed about these results honestly, some of my faves like Germany and Serbia did poorly, but Finland coming second is still a fantastic result. While I do think every winner should be respected and congratulated, personally I can’t say I feel too great about Sweden winning right now. I like having the jury at Eurovision for adding a different viewpoint and saving songs like Spain (or Albania 2018) from the bottom of the scoreboard, but I also much prefer when the televote favourite wins overall. I can accept a winner I dislike if it’s the public opinion, it’s harder to accept when it’s just juries. Having Eurovision 2024 in Sweden 50 years after ABBAs win is neat I guess. At the end of the day, regardless of the results, we got to experience 37 new songs, and hundreds more in the pre-selections, discovering and falling in love with so many new artists – and that’s what I really love about Eurovision.

[crystal-methionine]

It’s time for my annual post about Eurovision and then disappearing from here for another year. So behold my rankings for the 2023 edition:

1. Finland 🇫🇮 - Cha Cha Cha by Käärijä

Oh Finland. So close to winning but a deserved 🥈. I wholly think that this song was a bit more original and stands out compared to Tattoo, but we all knew once Loreen was chosen by Sweden the the queen of Eurovision would take the crown.

2. Spain 🇪🇸 - EAEA by Blanca Paloma

5 pts. BITCH SERIOUSLY???!!! This was a masterclass of vocal performance with a touch of tradition, modernity, and ethnic music. Blanca killed it and the performance was so encapturing. I did not look away once. And then Europe have her only 5 pts (last place). I’m usually anti-jury but they at least put her 9th (could have been higher but better than fuckin last)

3. Sweden 🇸🇪 - Tattoo by Loreen

Way deserved 🥇. I listen to this and belt in the car. It was my #1 a good bit constantly switching between it and Finland. I remember thinking in the semi, what the point of even having the contest was bc she already won after performing. I do hate pulling the it’s Loreen card, but honestly when has she ever done wrong?? Perfectly fine with her winning it all.

4. Armenia 🇦🇲 - Future Lover by Brunette

Underrated imo. Also the dance break. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor in the semi. Vocally flawless both times. Amazing staging to boot. I understand this wasn’t everybody’s cup of tea. However, I think merit should have been awarded more.

5. Iceland 🇮🇸 - Power by Diljá

As already shown with Spain, we can’t have all the nice things can we, Europe? Vocal perfection. Rich gritty vocals and delicate. Is the song the best song lyrically, no. But the amount of performance prowess Diljá performed and stayed on point vocally was literally mind blowing. I knew she wasn’t going to qualify, but I so wanted her to. She deserved it more over some other countries *cough Poland*. The good news was she didn’t seem to care much and had a good time from what I was seeing.

6. Serbia 🇷🇸 - Samo Mi Se Spava by Luke Black

Like Armenia, I fully understand this isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. This is one of my personal favorites that I may repeat once or twice if it comes on my playlist. The last minute of the song is my hype jam. The performance was good. I’ll agree to that there were better performers, but I have to rank the song this high given my replay count.

7. Israel 🇮🇱 - Unicorn by Noa Kirel

Is it my favorite, no. Do I hate the lyrics at times? Yes. It makes me think it’s supposed to be a track for a My Little Pony movie or something. Did the performance slap? Yes. She killed it, and I have to give props when they are due. Definitely ok with it in top 5.

8. Italy 🇮🇹 - Due Vite by Marco Mengoni

Is it a regular ye ole classic male ballad from Italy? Yes. Do I care? No. Did I love the performance? Yes? Would I break up with my partner and move to Italy and be with him? Absolutely (sorry babe, he’s so hot and if you had watched, you’d understand). Marco like in 2013 was vocally amazing and we had emotion. Idk what the trampoline people in the back were for, but tbh I didn’t pay them attention bc I was watching Marco.

9. Australia 🇦🇺 - Promise by Voyager

This song when it came out was my #1 until Cha Cha Cha and Tattoo came out. So happy they got a good result. They deserved it. Could have done better televote, but this year I agreed more with juries for the majority of the songs.

10. Slovenia 🇸🇮 - Carpe Diem by Joker Out

Oh you silly boys. You are the Miss Congeniality for sure. And on top of that, you should have been top 10. The performance was so fun and genuinely enjoyable. Vocally, they did well. I just fear that Slovenia always gets overlooked by everyone and that was why they stayed right side of the board this year.

11. Lithuania 🇱🇹 - Stay by Monika Linkyte

Lyrically felt and amazing voice. Glad she got her solo moment and just out of top 10. Loved the performance and she was so silly behind Finland all evening. Made me like her more.

12. Norway 🇳🇴 - Queen of Kings by Alessandra

Juries wtf? Why was this so low? She always did fairly well (maybe some whistle tones iffy). Glad she got a lot of televote points. Deserved top 10. I think for me it’s just I have heard it so many times that it’s not as impactful anymore.

13. Czechia 🇨🇿 - My Sister’s Crown by Vesna

I wasn’t sure vocally about this watching before the show concerts. However, they pulled it together though and the semi performance had me going. Deserved top 10. Well done ladies.

14. France 🇫🇷 - Évidemment by La Zarra

Vocally good. Performance was captivating. Idk why it was so low. It was quintessentially French, and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

15. Austria 🇦🇹 - Who the Hell is Edgar? by Salena and Teya

I thought this was too weird off the bat, but it grew on me. Hearing the crowd do the Poes was fun and glad they seemed to enjoy themselves. I get what the song is about, but idk if others missed it. Maybe that’s why it was low on televote??

16. Portugal 🇵🇹 - Ai Coraçao by Mimicat

Yes yes yes. Portugal did everything they should have always, which is authenticity. Mimicat was a joy to watch sashay around the stage in her feather skirt. Stole my heart for sure.

17. Latvia 🇱🇻 - Aīja by Sudden Lights

Oh Latvia. I’m so sorry you were in the semi of death. I think you’d have qualified otherwise. Very nice song and good performance. Definitely was brought to life more live than studio cut. Keep going this direction please.

18. UK 🇬🇧 - I Wrote a Song by Mae Muller

Song is good but I think vocals let it down slightly. Glad UK is in a good direction given the last 2 years. Keep it up.

19. Estonia 🇪🇪 - Bridges by Alika

I can’t dock this song for anything besides just personal opinion. It’s not that I was bored with it but I just liked others more. But live, she nailed everything and so I understand top 10 for her. Good job Estonia.

20. Germany 🇩🇪 - Blood and Glitter by Lord of the Lost

Look at me putting Germany in a non-last 5 overall position. What is this universe? Tbh it wasn’t high on my list until tonight. They killed it on the stage and rocked it out. Idk why it was last but at least it wasn’t 0 points again so hey improvements???

21. Albania 🇦🇱 - Duje by Albina and Fam

Just like Portugal, authentic. I’m a sucker for ethnic songs and while it wasn’t on my radar until the live shows, I’m glad it did after. Happy they qualified.

22. Georgia 🇬🇪 - Echo by Iru

NQ? Really?? This was so impactful vocally, visually. I don’t get it but truth be told, I still have no idea what the lyrics are. Idk if it was accent or what. But I don’t really care. So beautiful and passionate. Georgia, keep this up even if it was a NQ this time.

23. Belgium 🇧🇪 - Because of You by Gustaph

So this song is ok. I like the beat and the vogueing. I like the nod to ballroom. I think the lyrics are cliche and it sets something off in my brain where I can’t enjoy it like other people do. Idk what it is but glad they’re happy with the result.

24. Cyprus 🇨🇾 - Break a Broken Heart by Andrew Lambrou

Basic. Good but basic. Vocal iffy sometimes but a qualifier for sure.

25. Ukraine 🇺🇦 - Heart of Steel by Tvorchi

Glad they made it but the song is just ok. Elevated slightly by adding Ukrainian verse, but I would have liked more tbh. For a year celebrating Ukraine, I felt that the show did more than song in doing that imo. Czechia even did more tbh.

26. Moldova 🇲🇩 - Soarele si Luna by Pasha Parfeni

I prefer his 2012 song to this. Idk what is with the tribal influence, but I was so confused at the performance and the vocal was ok. At least it was enjoyable.

27. Netherlands 🇳🇱 - Burning Daylight by Mia and Dion

The studio was my #2 forever. It was so promising. Until I heard it live first. It was so bad. They fixed it, but I think they were kinda dead in the water already given how little their own people cared or wanted to promote them or the song, which is sad bc lyrically it was so relatable and felt by me.

28. Switzerland 🇨🇭- Waterguns by Reno Forrer

There’s nothing wrong with this song or him or his voice or the performance. I just was bored of it from the get go. I will merit his voice. It’s outstanding, but the song does nothing much for me. Would rather have had Latvia.

29. Denmark 🇩🇰 - Breaking My Heart by Reiley

I rather like this song. But only studio. The love was a struggle. Couldn’t seem to find the key for very long before losing it. May have simply been too high for his register. Either way, I enjoy it when on the playlist. Reminds me of the tracks for Heartstopper on Netflix.

30. Malta 🇲🇹 - Dance by The Busker

Is it bad? No. Is it good? No. Kinda middle ground. Would I dance to it? Yeah. Wasn’t too upset with the song. Just there.

31. Greece 🇬🇷 - What They Say by Victor Vernicos

Greece. We need to talk. I get wanting to fish for diaspora votes, but you have to qualify first. I don’t have anything against the song or the artist, but this was not putting the best foot forward. It gave Shawn Mendes wannabe and not Greek productions like we’ve seen in the recent years. It wasn’t broke. Put it back.

32. Ireland 🇮🇪 - We Are One by Wild Youth

You remember how U2 forced an album on us? This sounded like it was from that. I have nothing against the song bc I like Coldplay and U2, but come on Ireland. Surely you can do better than play it safe. Give us JR Eurovision level of taste. Give us Irish language and make a girl belt like a syren banshee.

33. Croatia 🇭🇷 - Mama ŠČ by Let 3

I am only putting this this high. I don’t get the hype or the reasoning. It’s weird in a not pleasant way. Parts are catchy so this is what I can give it.

34. Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 - Tell Me More by TuralTuranX

See Greece but Beatles instead of Shawn. Put it back. NOW.

35. San Marino 🇸🇲 - Like an Animal by Piqued Jacks

Take the lyrics away and the screaming at the end and it’s not bad music. Kinda reminds me of 1970-80s rock like Queen for a bit but bring back Achille.

36. Poland 🇵🇱 - Solo by Blanka

Just no. There I was minding my business and then all of a sudden, I hear this grating, irritating Bejba. I really didn’t like the song or her. Liking posts hating on fellow contestants in your national final. Immediate bottom even if you have a good song (see Armenia 2014).

37. Romania 🇷🇴 - DGT by Theodor Andrei

There weren’t many options for Romania this year tbh. Just unfortunately picked one where the song was just bad. Theodor can sing tho so give him a new song and act and would be higher on this list.

[mindastardust]

My thoughts regarding the esc 2023 final/results

Okay, I’ve had some time to think about this (and actually sleep a bit) and this is my (probably a bit disorganized) thoughts on the situation. (I’m from Sweden, so I’m a bit biased, but I’ve done my best to give a fair answer/judgment to everything that I’ve seen)

1. The blatant misogyny and racism

The amount of misogyny and racism directed toward Loreen that I’ve seen is truly disgusting. I’ve read things that seemed like direct quotes from the Swedish democratic party (aka the racist party) and that’s never, ever okay. It’s completely fine to dislike the song/the number/the singer we still need to treat them with the bare minimum of respect.

2. This is not the first time (and probably not the last)

This is not the first time a former winner is back. A recent example (that I also have seen other people talk about here) is Alexander Rybak who returned in 2018. I’m well aware that he didn’t win but he did win his semi-final and was, for a while, one of the favorites that year. And I don’t remember people campaigning against him for a whole week for that? I have seen some people talk about how his entry was fine since it was clear that he “didn’t even try to win and was just having fun”. I can’t find any source confirming this but I can find one interviewwith Loreen where she says that winning again wasn’t her main motivation for returning. And still, I see Loreen being accused of only caring about winning and being annoyingly “fake humble” (again, see 1).

Also, quite a few times in the past ten years, the televoting winner and the overall winner have not been the same. For example, the last time Sweden won, Måns only came third in the televoting category and this hate storm was mysteriously silent. Same thing 2016 and 2019, when Jamala/Duncan won in neither the televoting nor the jury votes but still won overall.

3. What is Eurovision about and who is it for?

Finland’s entry this year (and most years to be fair) is funnier than Sweden’s. Tattoo is not meant to be a funny song and Sweden generally sends more “normal” (or boring, if you prefer that word) pop songs rather than the more colorful, camp songs that most of us fans have come to associate with Eurovision. Do I think Esc would be more fun if we actually tried to send songs like that? Yeah, I do. I’d love for that to be a thing. Unfortunately, as esc works right now, it’s not the most “effective” thing to do if you want to win. As boring as it is, the more “normal” pop songs generally perform better than the more camp/crazy/creative ones.

We also need to remember that most of the 200 million viewers aren’t us. They are not live-blogging the whole show on Tumblr. They causally follow the show, most of them probably watching only the final. To call Tattoo “jury bait” is fine, cause it’s 100% true. To call it “normie bait” is less so. It implies that those more casual viewers (who might prefer music similar to “normal” pop rather than “classic esc camp”) don’t have the same right to an opinion as the “true esc fan” (whoever that might be). It also brings us to the question of how to identify that true fan. OGAE (the network of esc fan clubs) perhaps, who organizes the OGAE fan poll each year? But since Loreen won that one this year, I’m guessing that’s not a solution that’s good either.

Yes, Käärijä won the public vote (with quite a big margin) but Loreen came in second place and to act like everyone who voted for her doesn’t deserve to have an opinion is trying to silence quite a lot of people.

4. Was Eurovision rigged?

You all do realize that some of you sound a bit crazy, right? We clearly did not bribe the jury nor (do I believe at least) was this whole thing planned before the competition began. At best (if you want a conspiracy), Melfest (Sweden’s national competition) was rigged so that a “good artist” (in this case Loreen) would win with a very ESC-friendly song so that Sweden could have the highest chance possible of winning. Do I think this was the case? No. I don’t have any proof that our television network didn’t plan this. At the same time, no one else has any proof that they did.

5. So what now?

Loreen played by the rules and won. You are allowed to think the rules (the jury) suck (I can assure you that several Swedes hate the international jury we have at our Melfest each year). Should the rules change? I’m open to that. The rules have changed many times before and it might be high time for another change. There’s certainly much to gain in terms of goodwill by removing the jury right now. Also, kick out Israel while you’re at it. The fact that they’re still allowed to compete is disgusting.

TLDR; If you want to criticize Loreen (or anyone else), do it without being racist or misogynistic. Remember that former winners have been back before and that other entries than the televoting winner have won before. Realize that we Tumblre fans might not be the typical esc viewer. I personally don’t see how esc could have been rigged for Sweden to win and I do believe Loreen (and Sweden) played 100% by the rules, but I can agree that if those rules cause this much outrage, they might be due for a change.

[darkerthanblack-666]

Re: ESC 2024 hosting because of ABBA: I’ve got THOUGHTS even tho I’m just an American (don’t get me started on American Song Contest that needs to die we have 57 of those WHY DO WE NEED THAT ONE) lol. The thought are as follows: I get that it’s ~tradition~ for the winner to host next year’s contest (afaik it’s not like written in the rules, right??) but like… had they just been HONEST and said “Sweden is going to host ESC 2024 regardless of winner for ABBA’s 50th anniversary” I really think everyone would’ve been like “ok that’s fine get on with the show, whoever wins can host 2025 or have a separate event” but instead (this may just be the American in me who sees corruption everywhere lol) I fully believe Sweden paid a lot of money to get the jury to make them the winner (or otherwise somehow rigged it) and because of that, whether you like her or not, Loreen’s “win” will always seem suspect and luckily it seems like the juries are bearing the brunt of the nasty reactions, not Loreen (whether you like her or not, nobody deserves to be shat on for what the juries did), she’s always gonna have those allegations over her. Do I think Finland should’ve won with that popular vote count? Yes. Do I think Loreen had anything to do with Sweden actually winning? Not really. I really hope whoever’s in charge gets their shit together before next year and change rules to have it actually be fair (ie, if you won once you can’t compete again, abolish the juries and have the popular vote win, etc) because it was FUN this year with unique acts (for the most part lol) and then Sweden ruined it and soured the whole thing for everyone INCLUDING THE PERFORMERS and that makes me sad. It’s supposed to be fun. You’re not supposed to go home hoping your country doesn’t hate you.

Listen, even before the Swedish national selections I've been reading wank to Loreen. I didn't know who she was, because I don't watch Eurovision religiously (metalheads in general think that Eurovision is crap and this year we all were proven it is crap indeed). I heard her song and didn't even remember it for the first time, I totally spaced out when I watched the video. It's nothing special. But everyone was treating it like the highest form of art.

They kept saying she's going to win the national selections, and then the whole contest. I think someone created that hype around her on purpose. So many viewers thought the song was something exceptional, while it isn't. I personally think they pulled her out of her sleeve and created the hype to win it. Because the same strategy was used with Blanka in Poland. Promoting the song on TV, then in multiple countries, etc.

Sometimes shady tactics are not necessary to get high score in televote, it's simply marketing and I can easily see it in both cases here (but ofc Blanka didn't get that many points from the jury, because Poland is not one of the jury pets and we always do better at televote).

The jury votes, I'll leave it to your own interpretation. Whether it was marketing (the bookmaker odds overhyped Sweden to the ridiculous degree as well, it could also be a marketing strategy), or if they were paid. Who knows? There is no proof for anything, but to me the blatant promotion of the song was pretty clear.

To me Loreen is no one special and because of this whole hype around her I just can't look at her, I avoid everything related to her, and didn't even want to look at her performance. I'm not the person to send someone hate, however. I just avoid what I dislike. I love Käärijä, so all my attention goes to him. Indeed, Sweden ruined it all, because without them even the televote could be different. Many people mass voted for Finland trying to beat Sweden (they were probably tired of the whole promotion of this song, too). I think Käärijä would still win the televote without Sweden playing dirty, but without such a huge advantage. Would Loreen be 2nd though? I'm not so sure. Every person I talk to, says that the song is nothing special.

Next year I'm definitely not going to vote. When there's a good song, I'll just stream that artist on Spotify and support them on social media. This year we were proven that even great artists can score very little points, so this whole Eurovision ranking is for bragging rights only. Nothing else than that. Just being there is good for every artist, because they get huge exposure.

So it really doesn't matter if we vote for them or not. It only matters if they go there. That's it.