#i like to view ordeal by innocence with a very balanced watsonian/doylist attitude

[cowes]

Ordeal By Innocence anon again, for real, I love to hear your thoughts: It does seem like every time Rachel does something she instantly has a lot of regret, with Hester, with confessing Kirsten's secret to Jack, she immediately regrets it, but the damage is still done you know. And yet she hates what she's done in the name of image, but she just can't quite let it go. And also, if Hester is 18 when the show starts... jesus christ that's so much to deal with at that age. And not to word vomit, but 4 episodes was not enough to sit with these guys. Like we see that Mickey has issues with self harm from such a young age. How did that start and where does that impulse come from. Like where did each of them come from, what are their backgrounds. I don't even know how to articulate everything. But you're right, Ella's performance is really sweet, but not exactly innocent, like that moment with the constable? I think in episode 2 where she smiles and acts friendly with him and then sends that look to Tina. And she's the one that is the most outwardly guilty, but also understanding? Like she understands why someone would snap, maybe better than any of them, for the depths of what Rachel did to her. And Mary digs at that and she's the one to get physical first in response. But then Mary is the one holding her when Rachel is murdered. And then her hiding the liquor in the bathroom, like is she a teenager, early twenty year old just hiding booze from her parents or did she develop a problem after everything that happened. And also that scene after Philip assaults her like smoking under the tree and physically trying to erase what happened... man I could go on and on

hey bestieee. (laughing at 'ordeal by innocence anon' as if i have any other anon) as usual u have it so right, this time about rachel. what a fascinating character. she loves kirsten so much that its actually a bit confusing that she just spills her deepest darkest secret in a moment of spite. and then begs for her forgiveness, scared and confused, when she's been hit on the head and is dying. (in a way that's very reminiscent of her panic attacks in the prepper bunker). also the existence of the prepper bunker is so interesting. jack said this:

You're such a gutless fraud, Mother. Smiling like there's nothing wrong. But you built a nuclear bunker in the cellar in case the bombs start falling, so I know you're terrified, I know you're a mess. Just admit it. Stop smiling. Stop pretending. And, in return, I'll stop.

and he has her completely right. i suspect that was the writers using jack as a mouthpiece.

as for the children's backgrounds. i remember this. mary was adopted first, quite young, but unknown background. jack was second, born from kirsten and leo. hester was third, unknown background. tina and mickey were adopted last, at the same time - seems like it was during ww2 bc of the gas mask boxes. mickey seems like he has a london accent (?) and its possible that they were just billeted at first but later adopted - but that's my speculation.

um - i hate to break this but this interview with ella says that she was 18 in the main timeline (c. summer 1956) but younger in flashbacks. (im pretty sure flashbacks begin summer 1953 and end with the murder on christmas eve 1954, which would make hester 15 - 16ish years old). it's all pretty yikes. personally i imagine her as older. because my brain cant handle all that. so "early twenty year old" - once again, u r sooooo right.

mickey is very quiet, but he has a lot of personality ur so right. and the self-harm thing i think i only really picked up on in rewatches. cut himself during childhood lessons with rachel, had to eat with a spoon at dinner because not trusted with a knife, cigarrette burns, has MULTIPLE knife tattoos?? bruh. theres a lot going on there, so much, but he isnt going to talk about it. i think he struggles a lot with self-image. the fact that he's kept his accent. the fact that mary suggests he try to seduce gwenda to stop the marriage.... it all suggests a certain image that certain members of the family (rachel, leo, mary) have of him that he possibly leans into for protection. but the self harm is.... yeah, lot to think about.

mary. oh mary. i love you mary. so cruel and insecure and tragic and petty. horrible husband. horrible life that she isnt happy with. i truly think that after the events of the story she could have been the most well off. rid of the terrible people in her life, new relationships with siblings, new sense of purpose. of course all that would come with crushing anxieties and trauma but we stay positive in this house!!!!

lastly, i just want to say that i never read the books and from what i gather from r/agathachristie is that they dont like this adaption. its okay. all of this extra, dark stuff is added by sarah phelps. ultimately i enjoy it but if we're speculating on why it exists in the story when none of it gets really properly examined, i think that it was added for edginess. that said, i think it was really really effective. i love worldbuilding, i love hints at deeper characters, i love using my imagination. the demons got me on this one.