#i know nightow just loves to leave things as is like after it ends it ends but i wished i couldve seen the aftermath

[mxdotpng]

the progression of events in this arc is so so good and great and i love how you can just clearly see where and how each characters thoughts begin and progress throughout each chapter as it goes on. while steven was probably set in stone about his view on how to handle the situation i earnestly believe zed and zapp set out to disobey steven's request. and then they make it very easy to understand leo's point of view and why hes doing what he is - its why they show us that flashback and don't tell anyone else, and why he speaks very little after zapp threatens him - and then immediately cuts to klaus, who knows absolutely nothing about the situation currently but he can figure it out just by looking at whats in front of him. and because klaus is so unflinching when it comes to upholding what he believes is morally right he does so without anyone needing to tell him whats going on. he sees this percieved 'monster' protecting someone else and immediately goes to protect it, too. and even though a lot of them disagreed with each other at the beginning there is still the scene afterwards where they all come together to try and catch each other when they begin falling. i think nightow should pay me for what its done to my mental health

[kindaoptimisticsquirrel]

Trigun Bookclub Trimax Vol10 Part 4

Vol01: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3  | Vol02: Part 1 | Part 2

Trimax: Vol01 Part 1Vol01 Part 2 | Vol02 Part 1Vol02 Part 2 | Vol 03 Part 1 | Vol03 Part2 | Vol04 Part1 | Vol04 Part2 | Vol05 | Vol06 | Vol07 | Vol08 Part1 | Vol08 Part2 | Vol09 Part1 | Vol09 Part2 | Vol10 Part1 | Vol10 Part2 | Vol10 Part3 | Vol10 Part4

God why is this volume so long and full of so many epic pictures

Commentary for chapter 6 and 7 of Vol10, will do the last one in another post!

While I'm doing this, reading each chapter and after that, doing my commentary, I notice the effect of the volume lessening...damn! I should read it in one go first and THEN write my thougths but I'm afraid I'll forget what I want to say. Vol9 and Vol10 are in a way really meant to be read in one go for the full effect.

Chapter 6:

Yes! Wolfwood trying to end this fight not with his weapon, but with his bare hands is so important! He's not fighting to kill, he's not EoM's puppet, he's trying to bring back a friend...I can't say why but also the fact that this obviously pains Razlo more than bullets also feels right. That's how it should be. And then...there's Vash.

Oh god and then there's Vash.

This is...one of the most cruel images of Vash yet. To me it is THE most emotional in the whole series. Pure desperation. Sadness for things lost. Vash allowing himself to break down while we only hear the punches of Wolfwood beating down on Razlo. Looking at this image makes me sad. Damn it Nightow for making Vash have to grief before they even had the chance to start their future together.

But again, props to Nightow for the storytelling.

Vash promised Wolfwood to leave Razlo to him BUT NOBODY DARE INTERFERE.

LIVIOOOOOOO

And just when we fought we had gotten rid of him and he couldn't piss us off any more he's coming back round to hurt our boy

THANK YOU RAZLO. There can never be enough bullet holes in this dead man's body.

I really really like that Livio is not treating Razlo like the bad guy here, but acknowledges that Razlo is also a victim in a way. A victim of having to live through the fucked up shit that Livio could not cope with, of having to deal with that. (I hope I worded that all right, since I don't really know anything about the medical condition of which Razlo is the result?)

You did it, man. You saved Livio. And now you're even a person he looks up to you. Of the feels.

CRYBABY LIVIO IS BACK BITCHES oooh you earned that cigarette, Wolfie

Chapter 7:

I just love the kids and Melanie and how lively it seems. Surely it was hard and filled with loss as everybody had lost their parents, but it must also have been a childhood filled with love.

Baby Wolfwood oh my sweet boy... Sometimes I have wondered how little Vash and Wolfie would have gotten along. Or well, I'm sure they would've gotten along. I just would love to see them interact as kids. Out there, little Wolfwood, a long time ago, was once a boy drifting in space who would later be your most trusted friend. And who would, not in every way, but in an important way, save you.

Ah, just below is the panel where it says "six years have passed since that day" that always confuses me?? Still now because 6 years is not possible? I will wait for any explanation that you, my fellow bookclub readers, will come up with.

Don't scream at him!!!

Vash wanting to explain it to them is killing me. And Wolfwood's expression here is so...unclouded. Completely honest. Vulnerable. No my sweet boy you are no monster, did that not get into your head??

With the little time left...maybe he's right, maybe he can not explain to the children what he is, all the complex stuff.

You know, Vash, Wolfwood is tired. This moment, he just wants to spend it with you, and isn't that enough?

Wolfwood saying this...and then Vash begging to GOD, praying to not lose that man.

I never really got the grip on what Vash means with "stupid things". There's been this theory that Vash denies Wolfwood telling Vash his true feelings, but I don't think so. I think they both at this point know how they feel about each other. I think Vash just...can't stand to hear the emotional talk now because it's simply too much. Maybe it would be nice if they could talk out their innermost feelins at last. But maybe, they don't need that. Have their actions not proven enough already by now?

Throw that confetti guys

If some of you are on twitter and have followed the trigun fandom there you might have stumbled upon the marriage tweet my friend made when she read this scene the first time. I have nothing to add apart from that it rips my heart and soul in two. Now, there's one more chapter to this volume but this arc kinda already concludes with this here...and so I just want to say: I have NEVER before read something that felt so deeply emotional and tragic like this whole...Wolfwoof dying scene. Or, I might have and I might not remember, but in my mind this is the most tragic thing I can recall. Because...it takes its time. It already starts in Vol08, with Wolfwood's inner thoughts, and then it goes on for the whole next Volume where the stakes are getting higher and higher, until Vash appears to save them and save Wolfwood but it STILL is not enough. And Vash is shocked, is in denial, is in anger and is griefing and then we get a short moment of breathing, before it hits us again. We're living this all through Vash, and...and he can't bring himself to smile in the end. He can't. He only stares blankly until he then slumps down. Oh, and I read in the Trigun Wiki I think that this scene here is the only scene where we see Wolfwood cry. Which....gives it also so much more impact.

And, all in all, I think this is not the worst ending for Wolfwood. Of course I am devastated. Reading so much fanfiction, seeing so much fanart, makes it pretty easy to forget that there is no future for these two in canon...not together. (which is WHY I read the fanfiction because good lord did I need something to cope) And when I think about how they never get the chance to live the life together as they both may have wanted...then the feeling of loss hits the hardest. But then, on the other hand: First, killing off one of your main characters while giving them a metaphorical wedding scene is a sick move. An evil, sick move. And second: it fits the series. Because Trigun feels so real, and in real life, things don't always turn out the good way. And Wolfwood, with his life, never really had any future...but the thing is also, he died while knowing that he was able to achieve what he always wanted: the orphanage is safe and he brought Livio back. It is all he ever wanted to do, and it is thanks to Vash that he was able to do it. Would it have been dope if he lived on and if he and Vash could build their own orphanage and be caretaker dads together? Oh hell yeah. But, within the story of the series...it was always unrealistic. Wolfwood died smiling- whatever we think about it, he was content with what he achieved. (I think so at least! The panels where he cries out, they always strike me as a defiance, not wanting to die, but that might be reading to much into it. The whole thing for him is so emotional, the confetti, which tells him they welcome him back, despite knowing who he is...it would be a wonder if he didn't cry. So it might just be the emotionality of the whole scene.

PHEW I'm sure I could say more if I thought a bit about it but I'm gonna shut up here now. Time to do the last chapter, though I'll make another post, this one is far too long already.

[cerealandchoccymilk]

Trigun Bookclub: Trigun Vol.1-2, Chapter #08

previous | all | next

CW: Some of my analysis in this post touches the topic of suicidal ideation (there will be a warning around that portion).

I’m doing a deep-read of the Japanese original print (reread) and Overhaul 1.0 (first read) side-by-side, and writing down everything I notice from small details, version differences, translation differences, etc.

The volume numbers will be mismatched for most of the remainder of Trigun, since the Japanese first edition is 3 volumes while all later versions are 2 volumes.

As always, here are the non-analysis panels aka just my homosexual mumbling:

And the rest is under the cut.

[link for if the images aren’t in horizontal rows]

This chapter is the beginning of the Japanese Volume 2, which is from #08 to #13 (plus the pilot as a bonus).

Starting off with the cool as balls shot of Vash being shot a billion bullets at! I did write "rule of cool" here since I thought he was just magically evading the firing squad. However, on second thought, I think Neon specifically ordered the gang to not actually shoot him, judging by how he says "not bad" immediately afterwards. It's his way to test Vash, to see if he flinches.

[cw sui] The "You ain't afraid of dyin', are ya?!" line stuck out to me a lot... Many rereaders (and I assume first-timers too, at this point in the bookclub) know that Vash is... casually suicidal? I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it, but he doesn't have much of a sense of self-preservation. He's not seeking death, of course, but he's not exactly avoiding it either.... This becomes much more apparent and relevant at the end of Trigun and in Maximum, so I'll leave it until I get to those parts. [/cw]

Dear god the crotch shot. okay (squeezing this into a row because I don't really want this guy's balls to take up the whole screen lmao)

I've always loved how Nightow draws these circles to show spinning motion in his artwork!! It's simple but it really pops... it's just so so (chef's kiss)

I wonder just what Vash's next move was going to be here? He's pretty much cornered... but I guess he can always get out of any situation, as he usually does.

Vash's expression of sheer confusion is golden. I love him lmao

Meryl!!!!!!!!! Milly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love how immediately after he calls Meryl a little girl he gets spooked by the Big Girl instead.

This is not directly translatable, but I find Milly's line here very cute. In Japanese, she says「…私は――　ミリィ…トンプソンとゆいます　えとえとイチオー ��タンガンミリィとは私のコトをゆいます」 The correct word for "I'm called [smth]" here would be 言います(iimasu), but the pronunciation ゆいます(yuimasu) is a bit childish in this context. If I recall correctly, isn't Milly the youngest of many siblings? Maybe it's a little quirk showing that youngest-sibling aspect of hers.

Meryl asking Vash to be a "responsible adult" for once.... lol

This is the first time his name has been called since his encounter with Kaito and the beginning of the BL gang' hijack. I completely forgot that Kaito has no idea who he is!! Vash didn't give him a name; he's just been calling him あんた("you") the whole time!!

Excuse the messier handwriting from here on… I was working on this during a car ride.

A detail in the Japanese version - this line was originally written「おまえが消したって話んなってるJULY(あのまち)だが…」with "JULY" having a ruby pronunciation note of あのまち("that city").

This part was initially written to be a translation suggestion but I decided to just keep it a JP phrasing note:

「あのガレキが俺の見た最初の風景だ」 "That mountain of debris was the first thing I saw."

Translation suggestion - Here, Neon says「サシの勝負だ」, where サシ means "face-to-face" or "one-on-one." I would say it's more like "This fight is between just the two of us," to show more of the respect Neon has for Vash.

More of this respect is shown in the next page, where they make a promise that Neon will step back if Vash wins the duel. Neon recognizes Vash's skill and ideology, and treats him as an equal.

And here's the action!

I found interesting that Neon's war-cry/exclamation "ha" was actually written in kanji as 派. The kanji by itself means group or faction, but considering Neon's character, maybe it's supposed to be a reference to the word 派手(hade), meaning "gaudy?"

This duel definitely isn't following regular duel rules... but no one said it was unfair or anything. Maybe this is just how they are in No Man's Land.

Neon shoots with his dynamo-gun (?) instead of his cool engraved pistol.... Anyways, his first strike is at Vash, and they all hit the rocks that are falling between them. Vash then shields himself with one of those rocks by jumping in the same direction as it.

And he's doing another frontflip!! In sync with the falling rock!! With a wound in his gut!! In midair and upside down, he precisely shoots five rounds into Neon. It hits his dynamo, but looking closely I can see that maybe he got his arm shot too.

damn....

A bit of a tangent - many of Neon's actions are reminiscent of old Japanese culture, which is very interesting. His pose during his first appearance in Chapter #05 (how did i remember that. i checked just in case and i was right), where he sort of squats and extends his open palm to the front, is a very stereotypical kabuki pose. Again, I don't know about the specifics of kabuki, but his pose on the the panel where Vash jumps also looks kabuki-esque to me. Neon's respect towards Vash as a fellow gunslinger and his beliefs on dignity reminds me of bushidō. It's not representative of all aspects, of course, but there are definitely elements incorporated in his character.

This line (including the speech bubble after it) is a bit weird when translated so it will have to be tweaked, but a direct translation would be:

「このままではブレーキングはおろか…　船体ごと爆発する可能性があります！！」 "If it continues like this, the ship itself may blow up, let alone brake!!"

I'm pretty sure "brake" (miswrote in the image, will fix later) here means that they won't be able to put on the brakes due to the boiler malfunction. But I don't know shit about machinery or how to phrase this. (shrug)

That’s it for Chapter #08! As always, the Japanese annotations are in the reblogs.

[deludedfantasy]

Trimax Vol 5 Ch 4-6

Ok, it's incredibly late and I have a flight to catch tomorrow but I desperately need to get these thoughts out before I leave. AKA I continue being emotionally devastated by Trigun.

Ch 4

I didn’t catch on my first read through that Meryl is also witnessing Vash’s memories! But she seems to be getting more than just July. She’s also seeing little Vash. I wonder how much of his past she ends up seeing. Does it include his time on the ship before the Big Fall? How much does she learn about him here?

Also lil baby Vash!!

Did Hoppred rig the whole building to blow so he could take Vash down with him as a last resort?

Wolfwood needs to stop pointing his gun at Milly right now. He’s trying so hard to protect her and keep her alive, but I hate that his first thought is to go for physical threats. The thing is, I think Milly knows he would never actually pull the trigger on her. She’s still so brave for how she faces up to him though and never breaks eye contact with him, even with a gun in her face.

Me, trying to make myself feel better by telling myself that at least Vash used his angel powers to save his friends rather than accidentally kill them this time.

I hate how Midvalley talks about Vash, calling him “it” and “a thing.” He’s spent so much time around Knives that he can’t comprehend Independent Plants as anything other than destructive monsters. There’s a certain significance to the fact that he’s saying this to Wolfwood, who up until recently might have held a similar view. But he doesn’t agree with Midvalley anymore and it serves as an interesting mirror moment for Wolfwood’s character. 

A wild Legato appears! On the world’s weirdest motorcycle with his assistant. Once again I ask, who are they??

Actually, why is he even here? Is he mad that he’s been kept away from the action?

I gotta give Nightow a lot of credit here. It fucking hurts that Legato manipulates Hoppred into shooting Midvalley. I have a lot of sympathy for both these characters and they shared an interesting camaraderie. Midvalley might be the closest thing Hoppred’s had to a friend in a long time and Legato just made him kill him! They might be villains and they may be after our main character but I don’t hate them or want them to die or suffer like this. 

Ch 5

Eldritch Vash! Eldritch Vash! I know it’s horrifying for him, but man, do I love me some uncanny, eldritch character transformations. Give me more of that cosmic horror, baby!

Legato crying because he’s horrified that anyone would betray Knives…he’s just sooooo. He truly is a character of all time. The toxic loyalty and devotion is truly something to witness.

Again, I ask, where does Wolfwood keep pulling handguns from??? His tits???

Oh Vash, is losing it. His eyes are completely white and devoid of anything but rage. 

This is just like that scene from Pirates of the Caribbean.

Oh!! Is this the panel that inspired creature Vash? Love that it’s from such an intense scene. He’s just so shaped. 

Damn, Meryl!! Breaking the Mexican standoff. 

What I can’t tell is if Vash pushed her up, encouraging her to do it because he knew it would be a surprise or if she popped up herself. There’s something in the way this panel is drawn that suggests she’s shocked at being pushed out of feathers.

Oh shit, did Legato just get half his face blasted off???

Manipulating Midvalley’s dead body is…a lot, Legato. That’s a lot.

Oh no, not the Angel Arm again! 

Interrupted by random giant nail? Looks like someone’s coming to join the party…

Ch 6

I’M STRESSED OUT. Meryl is stuck and Vash is stuck in a meltdown he can’t control. Things ain’t looking good here.

Oh Vash, oh no. He’s in so, so much pain almost constantly from what he’s done. This is what he’s been hiding behind all those sad smiles and goofy jokes. It’s a wonder he manages to keep himself going. 

Vash’s imaginary (I think) conversation with Knives as he gains control of himself is gonna make me cry. All that pain and all that guilt, he could easily disappear into it and never find his way out. But he pulls himself back because he’s not done yet, he still has things to do and people he cares about and things he believes in above all else.

And he’s so unsure of his mission! He’s been proven wrong so many times and he’s fucked up beyond measure. But he knows people are kind, and just for that little kindness that was shown to him, he wants to give people a second chance, he wants to give humanity a chance to be saved. Oh God, it’s too late at night for me to be reading this.

Soooo, Legato was not supposed to be there and Elendira has just killed his handy-dandy transport assistant. I always find it interesting when the heroes of a story don’t technically win. In this case, one of their own opponents gets rid of a threat for them, mostly because Knives doesn’t want Vash dead just yet. Or ever, probably. He just wants that man to suffer. 

I will give Elendira, she is very cool and I might be a little in love with her.

Vash has so much compassion, that even as Hoppred wishes uncountable suffering on him, he still holds his hand, so he doesn’t die alone. He caused Hoppred’s pain. He understands it. He can’t fix it, but he does what he can. 

Ah, Milly is ok!!! I was wondering where she went. 

Again, so much compassion. He buries the people who were trying to kill them and gives them grave markers, a final resting place. Wolfwood would’ve just left them where they fell. But he is contemplating his existence, as usual when he’s confronted by Vash’s immensely caring heart. We love to see it.

[weirdcat1213]

TRIMAX VOLUME ONE LETS GOOOOOO ....i didnt remember this was just 6 chapters...wow

ANYWAY LETS GO

chap 1:

-youre right IT MUST BE TOLD TIL THE END OF TIMES

-1st act of god you say...huh

-yeah who could believe that...thats insane....jaja

-ERIKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

-ik this was written in the 90s but i still dont like eriks saying that, like wth man lina is right

-hey lina :3 missed you

-....i like the new glasses...

-THAT SHOT REFLECTING VAHS YES THATS NICE LETS GO

-"lina cover your eyes :]" oh :c

-"oh is eriks again" :c

-YEAH GRANNY KILL THEM ALL >:D

-"stop. some legend that is" ow :c

-this is all just so sad cuz he rea;;y wanted to retire but he cant :c hes vash the stampede

-ww laughing at fake vash is the best xd

-YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH >:D

-also thats funny cuz yeah vash COULD shoot you in a matter of seconds but thats not what his name means and i really like that :3

chap 2:

-aw lina :c

-imagine going to the store and finding the silliest/most depressed wet cat in the universe ready for adoption

-GIVE ME THE PONY TAIL STAMPEDE GIVE IT TO ME PLS

-ok but how did you (from the perspective of a stranger) figure that knives was a name? knives comes from knife, so if a random person read "knives" wouldn't they think about the utensil first?????

-vash: how do you know so much about this evil entity that is my brother?

ww: hehe, please

-ily lina theyre talking bs

-YEAH >:D FREE BODY GUARD

-...im not ready for stampede eriks i will evaporate

-OH MY GOD THE HAIR

-BRO SHUT UP OFC SHE SAYS SHE DOESNT HAVE THAT POWER WHEN HE KICKED (i think) A FUCKING BULLET IM SO SAD

-....I WILL EVAPORATE IM TELLING YOU

chap 3:

-YEY MERYLS BDAY :D

-go get your vacation queen ily

-keele i will yeet you into the sun

-im never not going to be so fucking mad at HOW EASY THAT WAS BECAUSE THIS BASTARD MENTIONED MERYL LIKE IK YOU MISS YOUR DEAR FRIEND BUT OMG it just makes me sad

-wolfwood :3

-i like that :3 meryl just cant be an office person anymore when shes discover more of her world and people like vash. even if she almost died a lot of times, those were also the times when she was alive.

-YEAH MILLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

chap 4:

-:c

-ok but that panel with mostly shade is scary

-i also want to lift my whole self with my arm :D (she said even though just walking places makes him tired)

-ok but if he trained like that for 150 years no wonder he's the only pro gunman ever

-i like his face on that panel, he's amazed and proud that one of his siblings survived for that long

-vash knows why is it always like that and he understands it but god he wishes so hard for it to just fucking stop and it breaks my little heart

-hes literally just an anime girl saying "hi-mi-tsu :3" (im so sorry i will never say that again but I'm right)

-he remembers people and names after so many fucking years

-also those children probably have never met him but vash gives so much ragdoll energy that they went with it (ok never mind maybe they did but you get the idea)

-cmon brad :c why are you so mean to him :c

-SHUT UP OMG SHUT UP

-all of this just backs up the SA interpretation and although it hurts my feelings....damn its just good writing. like not knowing what your own body can do and people taking advantage of that...makes me fucking sick (in a good and bad way i truly don't know how to explain it)

-BRAD LEAVE HIM THE FUCK ALONE AHHHHHH >:c WHY IS EVERYONE SO MEAN TO HIM

-noooooooooooooooooooooo :c every time someone calls/vash calls himself a monster this user loses 5 years of their life :D

-wolfwood sir your projection will make me want to eat my own arm

-NIGHTOW IM JUST PROCESSING WHAT WW SAID YOU CANT THROW CUTE LITTLE FACES AT ME SIR PLS NOOOO

-"run away run away ">:b" i love him so much

chap 5:

-the chapters cant keep starting with flashbacks I'm gonna start WEEPING

-is geranium tea a thing? maybe vash would like geranium tea

-how dare you, my vash the stampede would never side with the cops, he's acab i know that in my heart

-THAT ONE PANEL MY BELOVED (the onle about looking without his eyes)

-hes so fucking done

-yey conflict time :3 boi oh boi

chap 6:

-oh the title placement on this one :3

-i dont think he will (or that he is) fine after all of this but sure

-such a loud chapter and vash is so quiet

-and again, there all judging, expecting to see what will vash do

-"what do you know about my pain" brb I'm gonna EAT SOME GLASS REAL QUICK

-...

-its like....its like why, why make me suffer like this. its not even heavy stuff its just that everything hurts. his impulse and desire to help everyone, his reason why, how others see him while he tries and sometimes win while other times fails. it all hurts in a weird way.

-...legato why are you inside a fridge (i kinda forgot lol)

WHAT A VOLUME i need to lay down

[kayjayo1227]

Hello there, sorry to be interrupting!

I was curious about what issued you've personally encountered with Stampede!

I'm completely new to the series, I know there's an older adaptation also but supposedly it was very inaccurate to the story and I'd love to know the differences between iterations before sticking to one.

I am definitely 👌 close to just reading the manga and nothing else though, given that Stampede didn't really spark joy for me as I'd have hoped it would.

Thank you for your time either way!

Wishing you a stellar day :)

You asked so I’m gonna probably write a whole lot lol 😝

I am not by any means a Trigun 1998 purist or anything, I actually got some issues with it too later on once they deviate from the manga. Personally, I think between the three the manga is ABSOLUTELY the better version just in terms of storytelling and visual style and whatnot. I very highly recommend it.

Trigun 98 nails Yasuhiro Nightow’s visual style perfectly. It’s got absolutely iconic music, and it’s one of those animes that helped make anime a big thing in the US. Plus, I’ve got a lot of nostalgia for it personally because I watched it first and as a kid. It’s very good.

The problem with 98 is that the Trigun manga took a hiatus and was republished later under a different magazine, and from that point on is known as Trigun Maximum (if you do watch 98 this split starts to happen right after the stuff with Eriks and the little timeskip) so it misses out on a LOT of good stuff and makes up it’s own ending. But up to that point it’s a phenomenal adaptation.

Trigun Stampede is… it’s a weird case for me. Because while on the one hand I don’t hate the cg style here, I also feel like it’s wrong for Trigun. It’s so crisp and clean instead of gritty. They seemed to be leaning a lot more into the sci-fi side of Trigun than space western and it’s just a surprising choice?

They’ve done a great job characterizing Vash. I was actually very excited to see Knives using y’know KNIVES lol and (while I haven’t got there yet) I know the ending of the series plays into 98/the manga somehow. But it felt weird to me watching it when so many characters were weirdly different.

They made changes and I don’t get why? Like changing the planet’s name from Gunsmoke to No Man’s Land lol why? I personally was really hoping they would give us more accurate manga adaptations but instead they gave us something that was neither. It keeps a lot of that original Trigun peace and love to it, but every character change leaves me just looking at the screen and going “WHY”

Just for example about what I mean (and the biggest example of it)

One of my favorite manga characters is Livio. I love Livio. He isn’t in 98 at all. But he has a big part in the manga. The second he showed up in Stampede I was pretty annoyed. They took one of my favorite character designs and just…made it real bad. And so far the characterization doesn’t seem right either, although I’ll admit it bothered me enough I haven’t watched more yet.

None of these things make me consider it an abomination or anything, I do believe there s a lot of good stuff there. Just makes it hard for me personally to keep watching. It could be better!

Some comparison photos of Livio

And some comparisons of Knives

It’s just…it’s not bad but it’s not what it could have been 🥲 I don’t believe there is anyone out there that has read the manga that would think either anime adaptation is superior to it

Anyway, sorry for the novel! I love the manga and have been screaming at my friends to read it for years lol

Definitely check it out!

[severalspoons]

Long Rambling Trigun Meta Discussion 2

I *hate* the reply function in Tumblr. As far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t function. It doesn’t even open up a findable page so I can respond, and I can’t directly answer the reply. That’s why I reblog.

So, here’s the next best thing:

tiggymalvern

I don't recall anything like that fic you mention from either canon. It's a lovely idea, if only I could imagine Vash and Knives stopping arguing with each other for long enough to do it.

This fic I’m remembering was surprisingly hard to find, and now I’m wondering if it’s from FF.net rather than AO3. Will share once I find it!

The twins argue while doing it, IIRC, and have very different approaches. Luckily for the humans, in this fic the engineer likes the plant and takes care of it well, given how little is actually known about how to do so post-crash. Even so, Knives almost kills the engineer, but Vash stops him and leaves behind a little journal full of advice and encouragement. 

IMO, I feel like this is something Vash would be motivated to do more than Knives:

-- to repair his relationship with Knives

-- because he feels responsible for the people Rem saved

-- because he wants the bulb plants to be safe and happy

(listed in the order I thought of them)

But Knives would see this as slight progress towards Vash seeing things his way, so he’d go with it. What do you think?

tiggymalvern

I've never been entirely clear on the manga ending myself, and I think Nightow left it somewhat ambiguous deliberately. Vash and Knives are fighting, and then the earth forces attack them both, Livia intevenes and Vash and Knives fly off and

six months later we find Vash in hiding with the people who saved him, because Knives convinced them to, and then Knives plants an apple tree to help feed the peopl looking after Vash, and then he vanishes...

I assume he chose not to stay with humans and just went off somewhere, but it's left open

Interesting! Yeah, I got the sense it was supposed to be deliberately ambiguous, too. 

Many people say that Knives died giving his last energy to save Vash, to the point where I thought that was canon. 

No matter what happened with Knives and the tree, I have questions. If Knives planted the tree before dying or disappearing or whatever, I’d want to know where he got the apple seeds, and if providing the energy to make that tree survive on Gunsmoke killed him. If he turned into a tree (which I thought was the canon, but maybe not?), how? I can see why you didn’t interpret Knives as turning into a tree.

All I know for sure is, if Knives were dying, he’d want to do it on his own terms. Ideally in a way that would express his point and make an impression on Vash. I was going to say that creating a tree doesn’t seem like Knives’ style, but then I thought about the apple tree scenes in the anime. However that tree came to be, Vash would most likely associate it with happier times on the ship. Maybe he’d be fucked up enough to see it as a gesture of love. 

Maybe it was the closest thing to a gesture of love someone as manipulative and self-absorbed as Knives could manage...

tiggymalvern  Knives really is a person with no middle ground. When he believed Rem's teachings, he believed them wholeheartedly, that everything would turn out fine and people just needed to be given a chance. When he rejected those teachings and decided it was all just rubbish, he went maximum speed to the other extreme. Reject ALL humans, not just the individuals who had proven that they suck. And reject as in eradicate, not just avoid... 

I love Knives’ all-or-nothing way of being. Maybe because I know and love so many people with a little streak of that. And it’s so believable. Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere about how a misanthrope is a disillusioned idealist.

Knives thinks in utilitarian terms (”the greatest good for the greatest number with the least possible sacrifice”) as a kid for the few short scenes before he turns evil. He also seems to think in terms of groups rather than individuals (”humans,” “spiders,” “butterflies”). It saves him the grief Vash goes through at coming to know and lose so many people, but it also helps him justify a racist ideology. I love that about him, actually. If I were to write a Knives redemption fic, a key arc would be helping him learn to see others as individuals. I have a few paragraphs of something like that written...

Kids definitely need wonder and to see the beauty in the world, but it's also a good idea to mention the possibility of weird strangers offering candy that are best avoided. For these bizarre new non-human children, those warnings would have been extra pertinent, and maybe would have reduced the shock of what came after. Knives is definitely more mature than Vash in those flashbacks. Like you say, he wants to discuss issues with Vash, and Vash just parrots Rem. 

Agree.

I have a theory. Earth, in Trigunverse, seems a lot like our world, only worse.

I’ve seen a lot of people’s sense of wonder, beauty, fun, and curiosity squished. I was the weirdo in preschool, among other four year olds, for being too much like that. Maybe on Trigun Earth, a bleak place to begin with, that’s the norm. (And destroying people’s wonder/curiosity/etc. leads to depression and the ennui of modern life, but that’s another essay).

Some people, like those who run Waldorf schools, overreact by going to the opposite extreme. The worst, most ideologically rigid ones, deliberately wait to teach kids to read so they can explore the world unmediated by words a little longer. (And will even discourage kids who learn to read early, grr). Waldorf philosophy assumes young kids are basically sensing, feeling, and imagining beings, rather than thinking ones. 

I get the sense that Rem is one of these sorts. She was squashed and made to feel worthless for the way she saw the world. Maybe that’s part of the reason she was so depressed and needed Alex’s help. She’s raising the twins the way she wished she had been raised.

That sort of parenting wasn’t appropriate for a plant, of course. But no one had raised independent plants to adulthood before. No one knew what was appropriate. No one knew how to teach them about danger (or how not to). 

Growing up as a neurodivergent person in the Dark Ages, the only kid with allergies and sensory processing problems, etc., I understand all too well how badly things can go when even the most loving parents just don’t know what to do, and can’t find helpful information anywhere. Where helpful information isn’t just hard to find, but it doesn’t exist yet. 

So as critical as I’m being of Rem, I sympathize with her. She really didn’t have much to go on but her own knowledge and experience, and she bravely did the best she could.

Vash isn't thinking for himself yet, but he's a kid, so that's allowable. It does make it harder for Knives, though, who feels he has to be responsible for them both. 

You know, Knives does feel responsible for them both, and I hadn’t thought much about it and about the implications of that. No wonder he was so frustrated and furious. There’s definitely a sense of “something is deeply unfair and wrong” for a child trying to raise not only themselves, but their younger sibling(s).  Perhaps that’s part of the reason I saw Knives as caring about Vash, in his toxic, screwed up way. 

Plant biology is MASSIVELY confusing, and the more you try to piece it together, the more your head hurts LOL. But I think that's almost the point? ...Leaving the readers struggling to figure out the plants is the human perspective.

What do you think about the anime being so much from a human pov, especially considering that the most important characters in it are not?

Wolfwood is the support Vash needs to learn to control his plant powers among other things, the powers that have terrified Vash for so long that he ignored them. But Wolfwood isn't scared of them - or rather, he is, but not scared enough to abandon Vash because of them. He knows all about Vash, he knows all about July and the hole in the moon, he's seen Vash transform into some weird crazy thing with feathers, and Wolfwood still stays. Wolfwood lets Vash know that Vash's mistakes can be forgiven, and Vash is still a worthwhile person despite them. And because Wolfwood believes it, Vash can start to believe it. 

Between how well you put this and the dynamic itself, I’m...blown away and don’t know what to say. 

– “Vash, take care of Knives.” This breaks my heart because so far … he hasn’t. First he follows Knives around. Then abandons him. Then attacks him. I really do think Vash was trying. He followed Knives around for so long while being so angry with him for what he'd done, and yes, part of that was because he didn't want to be alone himself, but part of it was him trying to follow Rem's advice. 

Yeah, true, he did try at first. I undervalued it because by the time the series starts, that was far into the past and Vash probably doesn’t even remember it, but still.

In the manga, Rem specifically says, 'Vash, don't leave Knives alone,' because I think she recognises that Knives is prone to extremes and needs a balance. 

See, that instruction makes so much more sense. And I think the plants would have agreed. (Well, of course they would. They’re a collective consciousness, after all).

Rem probably also knew it’s bad for anyone’s health or sanity to be alone, and an emotionally unstable twin plant even more so. Knives would be in a solitary confinement of his own making.

Vash tried and tried to get Knives to change; he spent so much effort trying to explain why genocide wasn't the answer. But Vash failed, and eventually he recognised that he was always going to fail. So he left Knives, because he needed a life that wasn't that failure. He needed to do something to compensate for Knives. He took upon himself the responsibility of not only protecting the humans from Knives, but protecting the humans from the worst in themselves, which Knives' actions brought to the surface. And that is one hell of a lot to take on, and not a recipe for a happy life.

Yeah, that’s...a heroic life, but not a happy one. In a way, it seems almost as doomed as trying to change Knives. 

[sebastiano-merlino]

I've just published a new post on https://mylittleblackbird.com/2017/10/16/trigun-my-review-of-the-anime/

Trigun - my review of the Anime

This is going to be an article full of feels… so many feels!

Trigun is one of my favorite animes. This is the result of a combination of factors that can be summarized up into:

Awesome setting

Compelling theme

Incredibly well-designed characters

Great ability to inflict emotions on the audience.

I’d like to talk about them in order and, don’t worry, as usual, I will mark the sections containing spoilers.

Before we get into the meaty part, I am going to refer to the 1998 Anime series, not the Manga (that I read way too many years ago) nor the “Trigun: Badlands Rumble”, the movie from 2010 that I’ve yet to watch.

Trigun is an adaptation by the director Satoshi Nishimura (studio Madhouse) of the homonymous manga written by Yasuhiro Nightow. It is a Space Western story and follows the adventures of Vash the Stampede for a brief amount of time while trying to show us his philosophy and how this is impacting his and other’s lives. As the story progresses, more is discovered about Vash’s mysterious past and origins.

The setting

The story takes place on Gunsmoke (No Man’s Land) a desert planet in a far away galaxy. The human race has left planet earth because of unknown reasons and now finds itself on this deserted planet. Here humanity struggles to survive to the lack of natural resources. This caused a de-evolution into a society similar to that of the first explorers of the American’s west. Gunmen battles on the streets while sheriffs struggle to avoid the violence to spread.

One of the main resources of energy (and even water and food) are Plants. These mysterious systems are heavily relied on by humanity that builds cities surrounding them.

The theme of Trigun

I guess the simplest way to explain the theme of this series is to show you a short clip that summarizes it.

Simply put: can we save everybody? Can we subvert the idea and perhaps the natural order of “kill or be killed”?

This short video is a haunting one. I find this scene incredible from a writing standpoint – Rem (the woman) and her reaction when she sees Knives killing the spider (0:17) and the single shot of the two brothers (1:14), so similar and yet so different. So close and distant at the same time.

This theme is the main focal point of the entire series. The thing that hurts the most is that I am not even sure Vash is right here. We see him struggling for the whole duration of the story not to kill anyone. Protecting the good without harming the evil.

At first sight, this looks like the author wanted to create a perfect hero. I think there is a better read though. Vash keeps fighting without even knowing if there is a meaning in it. He doesn’t know if there will be an end. We watch him struggling to do the right thing without even believing it is actually the right thing. Is he just being a hypocrite? Will he not just make the spider die anyhow by continuously saving the butterfly?

I don’t know. The author doesn’t seem to know either and the anime doesn’t claim to give you an answer. It just leaves you with the pain of the question.

This draws quite an imperfect hero who is probably just lying to himself while trying to do what he thinks is the right thing and being punished for it.

The characters

Trigun displays an incredible cast of characters. Protagonists and antagonists are compelling and because of this, the series received overall praise during the past twenty years.

The main protagonist is Vash the Stampede. He is a mysterious man, arguably the best marksman on the planet. He has a massive bounty on his head for having destroyed an entire city on his own. Because of this hunters are always behind his back. For the same reason, Meryl Stryfe and Milly Thompson, two Bernardelli Insurance Society employees, follow him to prevent him and who want to kill him from causing excessive damage.

Vash the Stampede

Vash is a pacifist. He has the goal to protect everyone he meets without harming anyone. Not even the evilest of villains. Because of this, he suffers incredible pain and losses. Many times while watching I struggled because of the emotional pain inflicted to the character. As discussed in the previous chapter, Vash has a naive and simple view of life. He keeps himself in sync with it by thinking of his mentor Rem Saverem (the woman in the video above). She taught Vash while still young and acted as a mother to him and his brother Knives. During this period, she explains a philosophy of peace and non-violence that remains with Vash forever.

Another important character is Nicholas Wolfwood. A priest and yet another mysterious gunman. He has a bleaker and more practical view of life and how to deal with evil. It is hard to talk about Wolfwood without making any spoiler, but he is what Vash would have probably ended-up being if not for Rem. They become closer and closer during the series and it makes it for an important subplot of the series to watch the growth of both characters as they influence each other.

The big bad of the series is Millions Knives. He is Vash’s brother. Knives’ philosophy is completely opposite to Vash’s. He looks at life in a more black and white way. Evil exists and must be eradicated. We must protect innocents and destroy who harms them. Sad to say, but in his view, humanity is the evil to eliminate.

The perpetrator of most of Knives’ actions is Legato Bluesummers, an emotionless nihilist. He continuously puts Vash in “kill or be killed” situations through the use of a group of outlaws, the Gun-oh-guns.

Trigun and the ability to convey emotions (Contains Spoilers)

Despite having often a humoristic tone, Trigun seems to have made a mission of making you cry. This especially in the last few episodes.

We see an example of this ability when Wolfwood dies. This happens on two fronts: the death itself and the way the others cope with it. We are used to seeing heroic characters dying in a stoic manner. Maybe even happy to have achieved their goals. This is not the case for Wolfwood. He has just saved Vash and saved the lives of the people he loves. Despite this, he cries while dying and re-affirms he doesn’t want to die. He finds it unjust and even blames God for having created an unfair world in which he has to die immediately after having found love and friendship.

This also continues after. Milly, Wolfwood’s lover at this point in the series, has to deal with his death. It is excruciating to see the scene in which she cries and laugh at the same time while claiming she is fine. Similarly, we follow Vash, while he separates from the girls and travels to another village. He is apparently joyful while buying some donuts (his favorite food). He sits down and starts eating them just to break into tears one moment after, consumed by the guilt of having convinced Wolfwood not to kill. Because of this, the man has paid with his own life.

A second example is when Legato forces Vash to kill him. The scene itself is powerful.

I consider this one of the greatest defeats for a hero I have ever seen in almost any media. Vash has lost. He has killed someone and, even worse, this happens to him after his best friend has been killed for following his ideas.

The aftermath is again devastating. Vash goes through the crisis. Unable to cope with what he has done, he thinks of himself as a killer. We hear him screaming in pain behind closed doors while Meryl and Milly are unable to do anything that can help him.

Does Trigun have any defect? (Contains Spoilers)

Well… nothing is perfect, right?

I am not here to talk about the relatively poor animation and generally flat drawing, but I can see some problems in the story too.

The Anime doesn’t really help us understand some of the things that happen. One example is Legato and his strong motivation. He almost appears surreally insane. Why such a devotion to Knives’ cause? (I know, the manga explains it but, we are not talking about that here).

Similarly, the story never goes deep on what Plants really are. We understand that Vash and Knives are Plants – this is why they hold such power. We never understand where Plants come from and why only the two brothers, amongst all the Plants we see, have human form.

There is also some waste of time. Whereas the first few episodes might be useful to establish the setting and Vash’s famous “fake smile”, this section of the Anime goes on for a bit too long. I would have preferred a shorter intro to the anime and I think it represents a risk of abandonment for the story to have such a long and undertoned introduction.

  This is my review of one of my favorite animes. Let me know what you think in the comments and if you like my work here feel free to subscribe to my mailing list.