#i know I'm probably the weirdest shipper of the fandom for saying that but.. yeah.

[camellia-salazar]

Valid ^^

So, if KevEdd didn’t exist, who would you ship from Ed Edd n Eddy and why?

[wellthatsnottrue]

This is long and sounds like a tangent but there's a point to it:

So, years ago sarah z did a video on the johnIock conspiracy, and she got a bunch of backlash to it specifically from people who had been big believers in it, who accused her of bullying by bringing it up again. It was all "how dare you make a video calling us dumb don't you know it's very traumatic for us?"

She didn't call them dumb, but that's beside the point. What's interesting is this framing of any talk about how a significant number of people gaslit themselves into believing a (sorry) obviously untrue conspiracy theory about a tv show as bullying, and then shutting down the conversation.

On the one hand, yeah I can see how it probably is traumatic. That's a really psychologically fucked up thing to go through, especially with how young so many of them were. But I can't help but think that "don't point out how wrong we were, that's bullying" is a really unhelpful response, because a lot of these people still don't realise why they were wrong.

When you look at those conspiracy theorists now, they admit to being wrong about the Secret Unannouced Good Fourth Episode, but everything else? They blame the show and say they were baited. And, the show did mislead its fans at times, in my opinion, and I think there's a case for calling it homophobic. But anyone who thought that they were seriously going to "make johnIock canon" after s3 opened with a subplot gleefully mocking the shippers and calling them ridiculous - was already up to their eyeballs in bullshit and lies from the fandom.

It's weird - it's really fucking weird - that any discussion of this (any attempt to find out why/how it happened and prevent it from happening again) is shut down and called bullying. Even when it's anonymized, even when it's sympathetic coverage.

Anyway, so a bunch of the weirdest buddie truthers are johnIockers.

It's the same people. It's also a lot of people who were conspiratorial about destieI and a bunch of byIer truthers. It's people who do this every time. They treat shipping as a conspiracy theory and get other people (usually teenagers) to buy in. This behaviour is unhealthy, it hurts people.

And I'm not saying that more callouts and drama are the answer, because that probably hurts more than it helps. But it can't just be "never speak about it again, it's bullying to point out that people lied to kids about a ship for internet clout". We've been doing that and it hasn't worked, nothing's fixed.

I guess I think that some detailed discussion of fandom toxicity, and of trutherism specifically and how much it ruins everything, is necessary in order to curate spaces without this behaviour, and to help individuals who don't understand how they've been played.

[toxictoxicities]

thank you for answering me. It was really cool seeing your response. Also I love the comment about Suns not crying to Pebbs. It's funny. Though I know I'm more of a sunstone shipper-- but again, I got to be the weirdest little fandom person ever and think about how tiny Pebbs is portrayed in the fandom, looming over, or straddling Suns and how they're portrayed in the fandom. I can't just be normal. Also I am still new to fandom, and haven't played the game, so I am still learning lore and stuff. I remember it saying that Pebbles in the beginning was difficult to respect authority, so I liked that angle; because he didn't bow to authority, because he questioned, and challenged Suns, suns felt like he wasn't just some means of worship. but ANYWAY, I KNOW YOU LOVE SIGNAL LIGHTS, AND I DO LOVE How Sig and Suns can be with each other! They are very much on Stable Even Ground. And hearing Suns say they learned from the best (aka Sig). That's so cute! Little gay robots making little cats together. Especially disabled cats (looks at spearmaster and hunter). Anyway, it's so amazing that you replied to my little comment. And again I just--- Suns. Suns is good, and they deserve to be given love and taken care of sometimes. And especially the baking bread. Even if they can't eat it. The idea of Suns baking bread is the cutest thing ever and Suns-- if they had more human hobbies, would absolutely bake.

I'm too lazy to draw a reply so- I might as well also warn with spoilers bc I've played all campaigns, read broadcasts and pearls- the lot- I'm a fucken nerd XDD you can ask @revolvius and he'll tell you I'm god with the Rainworld geoguesser (too bad it's down rn tho :(

Yeah throughout Spearmasters campaign we get a shit ton of broadcasts between Sigs and Suns, Suns coming over to Sigs searching for support and all that jazz. Being defiant and such is mentioned to be a common trait for new iterators, it being referred to as a phase. Pebbles just happens to be quite more driven to be independent not wanting to be told what to do.

This trait is why Pebbles works with Suns in the first place because Suns - in sliverist groups- is the one asking the big questions no one wants to talk about such as "is it truly wrong to break the self destruction taboo" which probably was appealing to Pebbles to follow behind the footsteps of an older iterator who had similar ideals and researching into something Pebbles would want to sink his teeth into to be independent from what every other sliverist was thinking. Hell even his local group dissed on him because once again- sliverist despite wanting to follow SOS still held the taboo higher than actually trying to figure out SOS solution

(EP being Pebbles, Erratic Pulse)

Anyways yeah with this in mind I reckon Pebbles would heavily look up to Suns, worship not being the word I'd use but certainly I don't think Pebbles would go against Suns- he only does when confronted about his mistakes which he admits later on he only did it out of shame.

Sooo I won't lie there is some sort of tone with Suns being held so highly- despite there not being much evidence I would love to see Suns city and see if it is bigger than other iterators ect

can only infer Suns status with what's around him.

I mean there's also this- Pebbles always coming to Suns for guidance but never vise versa. It shows that Suns had a higher status or rep to Pebbles- portrayed as wise when they are only intelligent.

Also in Emergence, they can in fact eat bread ^^ , upgrades people upgrades

[sixstepsaway]

I want steddy hands to be endgame so bad, but I also think it'd be great if Izzy got to have a lil boyfriend who doesn't have History™ with him and thinks all of his bullshit is charming. Like he's doing the weirdest, most feral shit possible and the camera just pans over to his bf going "that's my Izzy 🥰🥰🥰"

I think if steddyhands was endgame, I would be so totally overjoyed (and shocked), but I don't think we're There™ yet as a society, we're not in a place where a TV show will really endgame a poly threesome, and that makes me very sad.

Also, I've seen a few people say it's not out of the realm of possibility because Spanish Jackie and Lucius and Pete are poly, but ehhhh. I think Jackie's husbands are played for laughs a little, a running joke written by a straight (afaik) man who didn't realize half the poly community would latch onto it and scream, because he doesn't have the Queer Community Instinct to know that, you know? (I do however think he's probably paid enough attention to the fandom and to Vico Ortiz to realize what we did get from that, so it will hopefully be played a little more serious in future, but it fully depends on how we've presented ourselves and if we've been passionate enough about it. The Blackbonnet shippers and the Izzy Hands enjoyers seem to be the loudest parts of the fandom, it's possible he doesn't hear as much from the "omg Jackie is poly i'm so happy" section of the fandom.)

And I think Lucius and Pete could be poly, but I'm not sure the throwaway line of, "We don't own each other," is exactly implying that in the text to the point we've all latched onto like feral weasels. Do I fully want to believe that is exactly what it means and if Lucius wanted to bang Fang or Izzy or whoever his little heart desires, he could, and Pete would just think it was fine/great/maybe join in? Y E S. Do I believe that's what whoever wrote that line was going for? No. Not without a lot of further canon context. In canon, that line just meant Pete doesn't own Lucius and doesn't expect him not to sketch Fang naked, which is a big difference from full polyamory/an open relationship. Sketching isn't inherently sexual, after all, but I do see that Izzy (and others!) might think Lucius was doing something wrong to do that, so the line is just letting him (and us) know Pete doesn't mind that! Lucius can sketch whoever he wants.

This turned into a little Polyamory In OFMD Essay, apologies for that, nonny.

But yes, I want Steddyhands so bad but if we can't have Steddyhands, I would really like to see Izzy find someone who thinks his bullshit is charming. I really would. He and Ed's main issue rn (imo, and I saw someone else say something similar so creds to them for that) is that Ed's enthusiastically like "Omg, Iz! The clouds look like Frankfurters! And look, a tiny model ship!" and Izzy is like "yeah that's cool honey but can we focus on this EMERGENCY WEIRDNESS?" and Izzy is like "Look, look I did all this cool shit and did these plans and I'm taking care of everything for you," and Ed's just not praising him for it anymore, he's barely even noticing Izzy is keeping the ship on the water.

They both take the other for granted right now.

So the idea of Izzy having someone who doesn't take him for granted, who sees him as gorgeous and amazing and smart and capable and being the only person except Ed who doesn't want to throw him overboard???