#i just. am so sad for ttj

[sarah-yyy]

also this is just a tiny detail but yxw’s 你这么做害死了萧凛你知道吗 made me so sad for ttj

[utterlyhooked]

I had to sleep on it and I have calmed down a bit. Till The End Of The Moon hooked me from the very first episode which is very rare. Even my favourites took a while, The Untamed took 21 episodes for me to get really into it. Love Between Fairy and Devil took around 18-20 episode mark for me to care. I really loved them afterwards!

You are probably wondering, what does the GIF above have to do with what I have to say. Well, it’s simply there to remind me why I love this drama because I still do but I am heartbroken about how the ending was handled. My thoughts are everywhere, so, I’m sorry if it’s incoherent.

The takeaway from this drama is tribulation, one after the other. Just suffering, suffering, more suffering, and martyring yourself to an ungratelful populace in every realm and only acknowledged by a handful. Yes, a handful, or maybe the Yiyue Tribe would add to that number but, we don’t know because Nian Baiyu was just flung into the Barren Abyss never to be heard from again. *sigh* Apologies, I’m being bitter. Li Susu probably told everyone and got the sects in line.

If they were going for a sad ending, then what was that?! If an open ending, again, what was that?! And then a happy ending audio was thrown in to the mix! The indecisiveness was breathtaking, it simply makes you seethe! Pick one, commit to it and do it well! They were trying to please everyone and utterly missing the target.

Those who love this kind of Xianxia with very dark themes (for cdramas, I think this is dark) mostly are not averse to sad endings. Sometimes it’s even expected. Great sad endings leaves you sobbing, heartbroken, and melancholic. That’s the beauty of it, it makes it memorable! If it’s a happy ending, fantastic! Everyone loves a happy ending. Great open endings make you think, not angry!!! however, I find that open endings are generally just ok (with exceptions), but thats ok too! The tragic thing about all this is the source material already had a sad ending, if a sad ending was what they were aiming for, and the epilogue of the novel provided a happy ending, if a happy ending was what they intended to do! They did not even have to think of an alternative because it was already there! And yet... *sighs*

Some mutuals decided to end watching at episode 35. They are happy that they did it and I am happy for them. But if I was to recommend this cdrama, I can’t really say that they should end at that episode because subsequent episodes brought us

Shifu and Cang Jiumin scenes which was beautiful, I was sobbing.

Li Susu thinking that TTJ was dead and was trying her hardest to fight and kill her awful bio dad and failing miserably

TTJ saving her and killing Di Mian, extremely satisfying!!!

The relief in her face seeing him alive only to realize that he had the intention of becoming the Devil God. The scream alone is worth watching!

When he took out the soul extinguishing spikes from his heart to convince her that he indeed has become the Devil God. The sorrow in her eyes.

I’m sure theres a bit more

and of course, the later part of episode 39... the Ye mansion scene. The sadness and longing. Somehow missing each other so much while they are in each others arms. So bittersweet.

Having read the novel, I knew from the few chapters in that they have deviated from it so much. I thought, ok, at least we are getting 2 stories out of it. Its just that precious screentime was used on characters that I thought was irrelevant to the overall story. Mo Nv could have been taken out completely and it would not have mattered to the story at all. They could still made Gonye Jiwu a jealous, vindictive, and bitter (ex) without her. Li Susu and Tantai Jin meeting with Ye Qingyu in JIng Kingdom was cut out instead. I saw some stills, so they did film it. It would have been better story showing on how the emperor can be the same emperor for the last 500 years.

I still have a lot in my mind but this is getting too long. Anyway, I now have 2 new favourite actors, so there is that.

[shijiujun]

Literally my one and only long post on TTEOTM ending:

Luo Yunxi and Bai Lu really gave stellar performances if they don’t win every award out there especially for Luo Yunxi who played every single nuanced version of sad, depressed, happy, sinister, vengeful, longing, pining and devotion out there like who else could?!

Also like the ending really left big question marks on Ye Qingyu and GYJW and YBC demon you know like???

---

CGI was damn amazing and production etc. was top-tier, but danggg will yall pls fix that ending?! Also a fun note that TTEOTM sold up to 13M RMB worth in merchandise DURING the airing period and broke some records I think 

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BE or OE or HE and does it matter?

Yes appreciating BEs is one thing and BEs are certainly great for certain plots and shows, BUT-

We’ve seen this BE in xianxia and sometimes wuxia/historical as if writers are dumping set BEs in just for fun, it’s almost always the same formula and not every show requires the same treatment? At this point we’re all certain none of the xianxias maybe a bit of the wuxia/historical too are going to end well (Immortal Samsara, Novoland, One and Only although I’d say O&O was perhaps deserved) or we get OEs (Winner is Love, LYX’s previous xianxia), or we get the split-second HEs (omg where do I begin, Eternal Love, CLJ, Pillow Book, The Blue Whisper, omg the list goes on) - I’m almost expecting either full BE or the guy to die and then turn up when the female lead turns around on a street or at home or whatever hundreds of years later cuz he comes back but you may or may not see him on screen

TTJ for one, based on his character and personality, was trying so hard to make things work, to give and give and give to the people he loved and the people who gave to him - sure, the writer wrote it as a BE and i respect that, but they also wrote the HE i.e. it’s canon, and the show not giving us that for whatever reason is depressing because the moral of the story is TTJ suffered so fucking much and led such a tired life just for a few happy moments and still was the sacrificial lamb. Yes he was happy too or whatever, he understood the circumstances, but is it so hard to give the canon HE ending to it and giving him the ending he truly deserves for all that he’s done?!

Also it was a strangely cut ending for a BE/OE whatever that was, like three stitched frames that faded out into each other, like I don’t know what the editors were doing but oomph an undeserved ending is one thing, and undeserved AND weirdly cut ending is another thing

And yeah if we read it as him being in the clam then yes it’s a mild HE but leaning towards an OE, and if we count the audio drama snippet sure HE, but no that don’t count!!!!

I feel pretty calm after the initial confusion since we already knew it was likely going to be BE BUT this calm is at the expense of watching TTJ suffer 10,000 times in the past 40 episodes we’ve been desensitized for the last death like don’t tell me yall aren’t tired of this show as much as you love it I AM EXHAUSTED MENTALLY - the “ok” i feel probably isn’t because it’s really ok because if we chose, we’d probably think he deserves his rest and happiness after 500+ years of suffering with happy days he can probably count on one hand 

---

Read the novel for the HEs: This is literally the only thing that’ll save you unless Youku gives us a good video cut tomorrow or end of the week you know?! You’ll truly see what TTJ deserved and we know he didn’t deserve this because WE DON’t EVEN HAVE TO WRITE THE FIX-IT OURSELVES IT LITERALLY EXISTS?!?!?!

But TBF, personally, I have slightly different feelings on the novel because Susu didn’t seem to love him as much at the end as she did in the drama, the drama did that beautifully

---

TL;DR Tantai Jin deserved better, and the us who suffered with TTJ deserved better just on principle!!!

[harocat]

How did you feel about Li Susu's character arc by the end of Till the End of the Moon?

I had a few critiques of it.

I think it was generally good through her first 'death'. My main issue with it, is that I wish the show, once they reach the Jing kingdom, got in her head more. I think that a lot of people were harsh on her because TTJ is such a meow meow (which he is), and because the show did not delve into her own personal trauma enough.

She lost everything to the Devil God. The whole world was about to be destroyed at the time she left. He would have succeeded in this, because there were no gods left and the last lines of defense had just been obliterated.

As viewers, of course we sympathize with TTJ. And so does she. And she does get to a point where she says "I am going to try to save him. I am going to tell him the truth. I want to stay by his side.' She was going to bet on him and the goodness that she thought he possessed.

But this is quickly sabotaged by Bingchang and Xianxia miscommunication plot device 101.

What is the value of one life vs everyone in the world's lives? Is the dilemma LSS faces. On the off chance that TTJ somehow doesn't become the devil god, is it worth the risk of not inflicting the nails? She has a mission that has been entrusted to her by everyone she's ever loved.

It's not 'LSS is so cold. She doesn't understand nature vs. nurture.' It's that she has the actual fate of the world on her shoulders, and she has to decide if it's worth it to save one man at the risk of everyone else. We as viewers just happen to really, really love that man.

And even then she isn't actually able to do it until she believes he killed her grandmother in cold blood, and that he mind controlled her into killing Xiao Lin (which he actually did do). Only then can she inflict the nails. Of course as viewers we know the whole story, but she does not.

When she fails at the nails and finds out the truth, she makes it her mission to destroy the evil bone, yes, but also to SAVE HIS LIFE. Her guilt is manifest in the physical harm the world overturning jade causes her. She is absolutely in mind to die to save him and give him another chance at life.

The show would have been better if it explicitly delved into that more because to be honest, a lot of viewers have trouble reading those implications.

Also Xiao Lin! Her need to save him is one part where her emotional side does overwhelm everything else, but people say over and over it 'doesn't make sense.' It does. It's just that the show doesn't remind you of the fact that she failed to save her 'Xiao Lin' back in episode one.

Adding to LSS's trauma is the fact that she is fully convinced she is going to die. Even before she decides to give TTJ her immortal essence, she thinks she will not survive this task. It's only in the brief segment of time when they were a happy couple where she was optimistic enough to think this may not be the case.

People also get on her case for not trusting him, but he doesn't fully trust her either. Again, it was less than a year ago that she experienced her world destroyed by a version of Tantai Jin that did become the devil god. Why is it so hard to believe that this trauma, no matter how much we want her to fully believe in TTJ, doesn't just go away? Even if it doesn't feel fair to TTJ? Remember that the devil god doesn't just look like TTJ; it is TTJ if he'd died that day in the snow, taken over by the spirit of the DG.

Mostly; it's clear that the show realized at some point what a good character TTJ is and what a good job LYX was doing with him, but that shouldn't have resulted in them sidelining LSS and Bai Lu. Nor should it have resulted in them cutting back her perspective. There are side characters they could have taken screentime away from instead (you know who).

The show needed to be more empathetic to her. It's naturally empathetic to TTJ, because he is sad and abused, but for LSS, they didn't put the work in as well.

The last five episodes are almost irreconcilable with how poorly they treated LSS. She plainly did not have a story of her own. She was moved around like a chess piece to wherever the narrative needed without any input from her, for the most part. The ONLY really good stuff we got with her was regarding Dimian, but even then, the payoff was weak. Love that she still believed in TTJ, hate that she didn't have a huge part in defeating her dick dad.

LI SUSU IS SUPPOSED TO BE EXTREMELY POWERFUL.

She is the lady of spirituality. She is THE cultivator with the power to become a goddess. She's the daughter of a goddess. We just don't see this. If anything, it comes across like cultivator!TTJ is more powerful than her, which is silly. He's not using demonic powers at that point, and he's still new to cultivating.

In the finale episodes, she doesn't make many decisions of her own. Everything comes down to TTJ's plan. Even when she becomes a goddess, it's because she's (quite literally) shoved into it.

I saw an article that said one thing that makes TTEOTM 'brave' and 'interesting' is that it sidelines the FL to focus on the ML at the end, but I am sorry, in what world is that the innovative route? China is not that different than the west in that it still prioritizes the importance of men in storytelling. The fact that the story started out SO much from Li Susu's perspective, and then made her basically contingent by the end, is a big weakness of the last eps of TTEOTM. I'm not asking to see TTJ do less, I'm asking to see her do more.

(If I ever do my rewrite, this is a huge thing I'll be working on.)

[dramarants]

trying to come to terms with the bewildering final 10 minutes of tteotm:

first and foremost, undeniably, the technical and narrative execution this ep was choppy, weirdly paced, ambiguous (not in a cool OE way, just literally hard to follow - how are we in the tomb, why is she back in devil bride attire, where did the scale in the last shots come from, why did qingyu's fucking hair need to turn blond, pang yizhi what did you finally understand cuz I sure as hell don't??) and left a lot of loose threads. with all the build up to his sacrifice, you want some sort of twist or surprise but nothing comes. the ending is so abrupt and this is always and forever gonna leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

the last eps especially emphasized legacy and, with li susu returning as a goddess, I must assume the immortal realm learned the truth about ttj's sacrifices and believed it. ttj gets his roses.

I'm gonna pretend ttj explained the zhaoyou situation to her too

in fact if we're in imaginary land jiwu grew the fuck up and, upon realizing the depth of ttj's friendship in spite of everything, becomes riddled in guilt for a while and fiercely protects ttj's memory

a child!! literally how to carry a legacy and memories into future generations

ttj's destiny was to suffer and resent the world + give up his body and soul to carry out the devil god's will

instead, he embraced the light, learned to cherish the world, bore other's resentment in his final trial (strength that I sure as hell don't have! even saving jiwu from himself!) he remained in control of himself, choosing to sacrifice his body to stop the devil god's plans

the love was there and for once, to break a cycle of pain and sin, overcome the consequences in the mortal world, for ttj and lss, it was fucking enough!

by destroying the evil bone in his final moments he prevents the devil god from ever returning, truly the world's savior

his death was mostly on his own terms, with purpose he didn't have before

saving a part of his divine essence in the scale to continue to protect susu was a full circle moment

in fact ttj embodies mingye in a ridiculous number of ways by the end, from his actions to his values down to his clothes, yet another way to stick it to the devil god fate

he looks at peace in his last shot during the battle and in the scale

they had to cut scenes and therefore couldn't elaborate on the post all-in-distress world

or dedicate the 30s it takes to show him regrow from the scale or something lbfad style 🤧

it seems like he could hear susu when she was speaking to the kid? so he can follow his wife and daughter's lives knowing he's loved and respected until his return that I am headcanoning??

by being in the scale, he keeps his promise to stay by her side forever and accompany her in moving forward through parenthood and the ordinary life he dreamed of

in fact ttj never has to defend himself or put up with bs again, his fight is over and he gets to watch a harmonious world that he and susu made possible

susu my girl, having faith in him and understanding everything immediately and wishing to meet him again

bearing the cross of the only living god and continuing, again, their legacy, protecting their love and the world

she was ready to die with him!! like!! fuck till death do us part I'll share your burden let's embrace and face the end together!! a sparkle bathed version of ttj trying to die with her in ep 29!!

nothing can come between them anymore they fricking ensured that

plus them in the heavenly realm, the only two gods existing, removed from the world and basking in that moment where the devil god no longer exists and it isn't a dream 😭

the tomb scene was so heartbreaking in the good way

these characters have been on such an incredible, unhinged journey and looking back, there's so much more to unpack and appreciate

ugh it's not a bad ending cuz it's sad, I mean how many of us predicted he'd die for the greater good a long time back, it's just the way it ultimately played out was... somehow disappointing

but you know what I enjoyed the path here so much and can imagine their path ahead enough to forgive it and continue loving tantai jin and li susu and tteotm overall anyway

[deng-yi-deng]

a quick note on my feelings about the ending of Till the End of the Moon. A counterpoint to those who were unhappy with it (which it seems like many were) - under the cut for the spoilers

Was it a sad ending? Yes it was. Did I cry? Yes I did. I do not usually cry for dramas, but I'm still tearing up over six hours later. Also, I won't be comparing anything with the original novel since I didn't finish and consider them to be totally different beasts.

Some of the critiques of the ending that I'm seeing are along the lines of 'TTJ deserved a HE because he suffered so much' another is 'we don't watch fantasy/xianxia to have to see the terrible suffering we know is happening in the world'.

Those are also things I said going into this drama - and that it sets a bad precedent to always have BE to be 'memorable' or 'profound' and that we could all use a HE these days. But I changed my mind, and therefore was satisfied (broadly) with the ending. (Yes, I have quibbles with some of the editing, but I have for many of the episodes.)

The reason I'm ok with the ending is twofold - one, though it is sad, I don't think it qualifies as a Bad Ending because the hero(es) achieved their aims. Li Susu did change Tantai Jin's heart, and she killed the Devil God. And Tantai Jin had an end to his suffering, and found love - not just from Susu but also from a father figure in Immortal Zhaoyou and from his sect brothers. TTJ's happiness was very short-lived and yeah, that really sucks. But he had the most amazing character arc ever.

His life was filled with cruelty and misery, and he had every reason and opportunity to choose to reflect that back into the world, but he didn't. His love for Susu led him to also love the world. Every good thing he did was a reflection of her, and to try to impress her. He managed to outsmart the Devil God, thanks in part to Ming Ye, and he died knowing that he had won! He had not totally fulfilled Devil God's prophecy, he had taken as much control of his life as he could, and he turned it around - he destroyed the All-in-Distress-Way instead of unleashing it on the world. He also died knowing that Susu understood what he had sacrificed, that he loved her and she loved him and even though she wanted to die with him he was also able to save her!

The other reason I feel this isn't a BE is that unlike some xianxias which are mostly romance focused, TTEOTM was at its heart not a romance. That played an important part, but the main story was about the struggle to save the world from certain destruction. This changes the nature of what qualifies as a BE vs HE. In the Bo're dream arc, we see the 12 gods sacrifice their lives to stop the Devil God. In the end it was Susu and TTJ trying to save the world, together. Their love is an important element, but it's not the story. TTEOTM is high stakes, it's gods vs. demons good vs. evil - and good wins, the world is saved. One individual's life is important, but they are just part of something greater. To focus on a typical married+kid HE for one character seems out of balance.

The drama articulates this point when Susu the goddess and TTJ are on the Celestial Pillar looking out on the world. Everything looks small, mountains are like peas. Only the gods get that view, and even the gods are finite. They are both part of something larger, something infinite. TTJ dies with a peaceful look on his face, knowing he's chosen this end, and that Susu and the rest of the world will go on without him.

The message is also part of the particular aesthetic that TTEOTM cultivates. With the Dunhuang look, they've also introduced Buddhist moral and philosophical concepts into what is normally the Taoist space of xianxia. Suffering is everywhere, the result of karma. The only way to break out of this cycle of suffering is to see and understand the nature of the cycle- at which point you can choose to leave it or stay to save others. (I am condensing an entire religious system into one sentence very badly don't at me). TTJ tricks Susu into following the Heartless Path again and become a god so that she can kill him and end the All-in-distress Way. He chooses to save others by destroying himself. His suffering is ended, along with the future suffering of the people. And it won't happen again. This is huge! 500 years later, the world is peaceful.

I'll agree there are other ways they might have done the end, but I'm personally satisfied with it. And since a little of TTJ's consciousness is in the scale, he could eventually come back. I guess in one version of the script he does, and so some are rightfully upset that was cut.

[andoqin]

Sooo I've been watching Till the end of the Moon... and I'm at episode 11 where they've just entered the dragons dream and I know this bit of the show is a bit uhhh divisive so I'm pausing here to gather my first impressions before I can take my time and binge through that bit.

And man, man man man Luo Yunxi is fucking killing it in this role huh? Don't think I've seen him go this hard in something before, granted I don't think any previous role has allowed him to be this multifaceted.

Unloved husband, exiled prince (and disney princess)

Turned king (and kinslayer)

To possible destroyer of all realms...?

Truly we love to see a man who can do it all. I can already tell that while they're allowing him to be somewhat evil, they're gonna tone him down which is gonna make me sad. Guess we'll always have Mortal Arc TTJ though, so that's something.

I've liked seeing Susu be conflicted about killing him, because he has not done anything majorly bad (offing his shitty bro was honestly objectively a Good Thing and I cackled at the way he did it) and maybe there is a chance to change course somewhat for him, but I wish the writing was more consistent at times when it comes to her.

I'm not feeling the mega chemistry, yet, but I'm delighting in every scene where she makes him do his little smirky-smirk because she is the one thing that he planned on and used and now she's completely deviated from what he knew about her and every act of kindness she does for him knocks him down even if he can't admit it to himself yet.

Further I wish they had allocated the CGI resources better, for example, I'm completely fine with sabertooth kitty, but why do TTJs fireball attacks look like something *I* could have done in Photoshop and it's an effect we see so often so it became kinda glaring to me.

On a more positive note I am very much into Huli Jiejie and her possible romance with Goody2shoes bro, but i've already been spoiled on their ending so i'm just gonna enjoy the flirting while it lasts.

Bingchang and her blank bore of a man can disappear off the face of the universe now, god I already dislike Bingchang so much already and I wouldn't even be unsympathetic to her plight? She's the unloved concubine daughter who gets abused by her legitimate sister and finally gets the chance to marry her bf who actually seems to understand her plight, but it goes somewhat sideways. Otoh, idk girl he's a fucking prince and you're the daughter of a concubine. You being the main wife was highly fucking unlikely no matter how much he promised you. Plus her persecution complex and her refusal to let go of the idiot ball make watching her akin to watching someone purposefully steering their car into a tree in slow motion and yet somehow blaming it on some non-existent hurdle on the road.

Anyway. So far so good, otoh I've already started rereading the novel bc now I have fantastic visual aid and mmmmm I wish they could have let Tantai Jin be truly Tantai Jin (and likewise Susu be Susu) but alas c-ent (and censors) nowadays does not have the balls to do that.

[harocat]

I recall that the dream arc of tteotm didn’t work that well for you. Was it not being into Mingye and Sangjiu as characters or did you feel it was a deeper structural problem

Ming Ye and Sang Jiu on their own were... mostly fine. Their romance was even pretty cute at first. The arc also had incredible aesthetics, so it had that going for it.

First and foremost, the arc was too long. Battle scenes too lengthy, endless convoluted misunderstandings etc. This is time that could have been dedicated to many other things, including the immortal arc later on.

Secondly, the dubious consent scene with Ming Ye and Sang Jiu. Not only did the show not seem to play it as dubcon, but it was just completely out of character for Sang Jiu. I tried to put this behind me, but it was extremely hard, and tangentially related but I'll always be bugged by the fact that Tantai Jin and Li Susu's' 'first time' together in a sense was when they were in those bodies, being forced to act it out. OFC none of this is Ming Ye or Sang Jiu's fault, but it just made the whole thing more screwed up to me. I wanted it to be brought up, but I knew it never would be. One of the reasons I WANTED them to get a scene where they explicitly consummated their relationship is because I wanted them to have something better than... that. So I am glad the show at least gave me Li Susu and Tantai Jin getting to do that in episode thirty-nine.

(To be clear even if this scene wasn't dubious consent on the part of Sang Jiu, I still would have been kind of upset for TTJ and LSS, but it makes it a lot worse.)

I guess the biggest issue is really that the characters were so stupid. Tian Huan was a pointless character. She had NOTHING to her except her crush on Ming Ye, which led her to do all this fucked up and evil shit. Say what you will about Bingchang (who also drove me nuts lol), but she had more meat to her; motivations and issues deeper than just 'stereotypical jealous bitch.' Every moment with TH on screen was insufferable. In no way was she ever fun to watch or even fun to be angry at. While it's true that villains are sometimes created to be hated, there should be some aspect of strong feeling associated with that that enhances your experience, as opposed to just 'I'm so annoyed I want to stop watching.'

Ming Ye and Sang Jiu constantly made the dumbest decisions, especially Ming Ye. I know xianxia loves the miscommunication plotlines, and obviously there was plenty of that between Li Susu and Tantai Jin, but as frustrating as theirs was, it was at least understandable why it would happen. These two just had a multiple choice selection and chose the worst one every time. Ming Ye was the worst about this, and I understand that this was new to him (and 'this was my first time being a husband' was a lovely line btw), but it was still so maddening to watch. Instead of being sad for them, often I was just mad.

There were some great moments. Evil Sang Jiu was hot. The scenes in the forest when Ming Ye was recovering were beautiful and legitimately touching. Sang You is my boyfriend, and he is also gender. I LOVE that she actually got to take out TH, and I love when she stepped forward and said 'this is not a transaction.' That was SO good. That being said, even close to the end, after TH was dead, I felt like their ill fate was entirely preventable. That this all took place with the background being a potentially apocalyptic war going on did not help, because it did make it all feel very banal.

But as maybe a three or even four episode arc, I think it could have worked much better.

I also didn't think it played well into the final arc in a satisfying way. TTJ repeating Ming Ye's fate was awful to see. He's even stuck in the scale! Sang Jiu had no play in the last arc at all, even though she easily could have with the world overturning jade. It felt really unfair to her, but it does track with how LSS was treated. My honest opinion is that if the dream arc was utilized well in the final episodes, it would have given multiple routes to a very logical, well foreshadowed ending storyline (with yes, an HEA). I would have forgiven a lot from it if it ended up being a set up for some really excellent story beats in the final five episodes. But it just wasn't.