#i jjst played one and it was so much better in the hand than any guitar ive ever used

[another-punk-trans-woman]

OOUUUGHHHHH I WANT A PRS SO BADLY

[away-ward]

Hey ko! I was the anon who talked to you about my opinion of nightfall around two weeks ago ask & ans 256? Anyway, i dont think i have anything much to reply to your answer, i agree with a lot of things you said. And i actually read the bonus rikabanks and wtf? 🤮 i shouldve listened to you!!!!! Wtf? Why do i feel like dn series dont have any couples that will stay together for the rest of their lives? Like? Tbh, i wasnt feeling alexaydin, willemmy was on thin ass because of that bitchass will grayson, kaibanks too on thin ice because of kai fuck that guy- conclave, then michaelrika is so stale? Ngl, they got that sexual tension, but what else?

Unpopular opinion, i actually dont dislike any fmcs in this series except for winter, even rika, i just dont feel much about her tbh. It's insufferable to see these men and women going after her bland ass, but hey wtv. My least fav though would 100% be winter. alex was my #1 hated, but winter was my #1 disliked fmc in the series, but still my dislike for her is lower than any hatred i have for the horsemen tbh. I think it's because both of alex and winter are jjst such self righteous hypocrites, will and kai got on my nerves for the same reason too. when they fucked up, they love to play victim too much, and blame everybody as if their hands are not just dirty. winter's character is just being a useless tool, to be damon's muse and before anyone come after me, winter was not boring because shes blind at all. It's her lack of presence outisde of damon, and her personlity. In general, damonwinter is unlikeable to me. Shes just there, she didnt make any impact to her OWN love story and i hate it, feels like only damon was yearning, and i dont even like damon. Like AT ALL. I fucking hate him, and still think he deserves better than winter tbh.

Funny how out of the four main couples, i actually rooted for damonwinter the least. Even in conclave and fire night, it was always damon taking initiatives, and i hate it, i dont like winter because of this. I dont understand how od got the chance to write a bomb ass character who's disabled and write someone naive, guillible, self righteous, weak, whiny and slut-shaming, like winter. Granted other characters did too, but the way she was described as pure and good but doesnt match up to how she actually was, i was disappointed. theyre the least not romantic to me, besides kaibanks (but kaibanks was because pd didnt know how to write them, and busy putting damon in their story. Outisde of those factors, they got chemistry). I want fmc and mmc to be obsessed and be yearning and work for each other. Damonwinter was giving nothing, because winter made it feel like a reluctant group project, but hey looking at goodreads reviews tell me that maybe its just me. I was so disappointed because everyone was like "you gota keep pushing corruot and hideaway for damonwinter" then when i read it, i was like "huh, why was winter like THAT?" She was so fucking self righteous and annoying. Like she dont gotta a brain or something? Like? Even rika wasnt this gullible. I mean rika WAS very gullible but there was a lot of situations we read where she was only like that because she chose to put it past her since her only aim in corrupt was michael michael michael. As she grew, even though she was still a lot unnecessary, she wasnt insufferable on purpose, but because pd wrote her to be one. Rika's character assassination was not because of herself, but because of pd's writing. Like damon said, half dumb half smart. But winters character was straight dumb. I feel like it's due to bad writing AND her character was born to fluff damon up. Like winter Was so damn stupid, i had to take a break when i read her pov.sometimes stupid? Thats fine, everyone does that in the series (except for the horsemen) but almost all the time? Girl, what? Interesting how damon really always find interest in dumb fmcs, but then he also admitted that thats his personality type, literally the ditzy blonde ones, so hey, maybe misogyny IS the big turn on for these "heroes" huh?

and another thing that i wanna touch on: purity culture of this series. Ohmy fucking god, it was so icky!!!!! Made me hate damonwinter even more. No because why did nobody gave this a trigger warning? I didnt know this going into the series!!!!! Ohmygod! Like for real? Damon always talking about how young and pure the people around him? I get it. Trauma. But goddamn, he romanticised it all the time and never grew out of it! I cannot stand His povs!!! Talking about rika like that, then treating banks like that and touching her ass ohmygod it traumatised me, then babying will and acting like he's a baby, then winter about her young thighs, ruining her and shit like ughhh 🤮 and innocent sleeping winter like she was 12 🤮 like whats with the purity-obsessed with these characters? Rika when she said alex was the purest? Huh? theyre both such dumb no-thoughts-but-only-dicks besties for real. Theyre always so embarrassing together, so shallow, i hate it!! But pd has never had a talent to write good female relationships either, her birthday girl book and fall away series are always fmcs fighting and putting other women down. But she always write all these men bonding with each other and having the best kinds of support system. I hate it!!! Anyway, back to the purity topic, ugh, did you notice this too? I always throw up in my mouth a lil when damon went into emmy's shower stall and talked about will like that, it's so predatory (which again, i know trauma, but idgaf) and weird ughhhhh. But people esepcially willdamon shippers always go awww 🥹 but theyre also damonwinter lovers so i guess purity is really their kink? Idk idc, you like what you like but it still traumatised me!!!! Thank god in emmy's pov i dont have to read much about purity and misogyny. Ughhhhhhh. Like 6 books in the series, and only in nightfall we see the fmc being mostly good to other women, and not the other way around only ughhhhhh. Maybe this was why alex was mad at emmy, among many other possible reasons than jealousy? Because emmy was her first female friend in the group who didnt start her relationship with alex being shit or judging to her from the start? And after everything still good to her? Because shes not to sincerely supportive female friendship like this? Or am i reaching? Because i remember alex's relationship with rika, banks and winter were rocky at first, not like theres a big fight or anything, but their men always use her to pit against their women and their women always looks down on her? Maybe not winter because she didnt know but damon was still implying that alex was only a side hoe. Idk, have you discussed this point here before? I think it's interesting how bare minimum it was, but thank fucking god for emmy for this. I wished she was bitchier and didnt have to always be so kind to people like this, they just always walk all over her while her bitchass guy grayson stood there like a dumbo, never fight for anything. Ughhhhhhh im pissed!!

i think that's the only thing i got in mind after ask and answ 256.

anyway,

and i just read your conversation with anon about emory's lack of background and ohmygod, it just came to mind that wow, emory's back story is really the most mysterious, huh? And not in a good way, but in a bad author-really-dgaf way. Like, damn? We really dont know much about emory? I'd like to think she dated and all, but the relationships were not impactful enough to change nightfall. But i still dont understand, why tf does pd's mmc always be so obsessed of being overly fond of other women in their story? Like? Will and alex? Why is pd always so obsessed with this? But the women always stay virgin or not a hoe, again, pure! Ughhhhh purity!! Men can have fuck buddies and girl bff (kai, will) but girls got called out and lashed out for being close to men while their men didnt give a fuck about how they feel (kai with damon, lev and david and prety much any men in banks vicinity, wil with damon, aydin and any men emmy hooked up with while being #1 whore himself). The hypocrisy and double standard!!!! Adding another reason in my list to hate kai and will. No bcs it's easy to hate characters like michael, damon and aydin from the get go because theyre shit and they know it. But hypocrites like kai and will? They always get babied by female readers and i hate it!!!! Cant pd write just one book with fmc who's not a pure virgin with big bad sccary guy who treats her like shit? Ughhhhhhh did i say how much i hate the purity concept in her stories?

Now, another one that i got angry about after thinking about emory's lack of background story: pd had the time to make up that Aaron Palmer Fane name for Rika's baby, combining alex and will's name, and the middle name of Torrin (girl version of torrance) for one of willemmy's daughter, and Fane for damon's son, but she can't give the same energy for emmy's story, and banks' closure? Like those babies literally only came not until later, but they got their spotlights? I'm so pissed off! Uggghhhh like if pd was so obsessed with alex and will, why cant they just write them together? This is the case where authors wrote too much of unnecessary side characters and fans start siding with them instead of the fmcs. And then pd's say shit like "oh i planned this, you just dont understand". No her writing and planning was just whack, period. She shoudve hyped up emmy from the start in every single book. For one fact about alex, give emmy 3-4 extras. How the hell do you even plan your stories like this? Who's the main character now, im so angry! We literally got a scene of alex and will on a bike, but not willemmy? Got a scene of alex in willemmy's bed, but not willemmy hanging out? Even their godzilla movie date after was glossed over. Dont even mention the cove burning scene. Unpopular opinion, I understand the point of her being locked up and will's thought of it, but again, why is alex with him? Ughhhhhhhh im angry!!!!!!! And why the fuck is will so fucking bad at setting boundaries? And when willemmy talked in the carfax room, they prob did talk about boundaries, no? So why no scenes of that? Because pd didnt find that interesting? But will giving alex's cheek a sloppy kiss at the cove, howling like dogs and looking into each others eyes saying theyre mirrors are interesting? Interesting to whom? Ughhhh

another thing, i read on goodreads/ pd's website that the characters' birthdate were never something that she thought too much off until the story got published them and fans asked for them. Huh, what a great planner! Like at this point, i dont believe that shes a great planner at all. And i cannot unsee it but i feel like pd and damon are similar in the sense that what goes on in their doesnt match reality, thats why their rationale are stupid. Description doesnt match anything. Like?? It made me feel a bit disrespected as a reader because she kept on writing a but i felt gaslighted if i felt b, then her fans will attack me and say im dumb because i didnt believe a. Like why are you angry at me? Tell pd to write properly ten, how is it my fall, if im not the only reader who had this problem with her writing? Anyway, i guess No wonder banks' age doesnt make any sense, but then she doesnt give a fuck about banks as much either other than always making her self worth about men around her- damon, kai and gabriel. Idk, if i thinkabout all the way pd messed up hideaway and banks character, that'll be a whole other long rant that nobody probably gaf about, but me.

Tbh i really dont remember where i heard this but hideaway was actually her hardest book to write because corrupt was supposed to be a standalone, so she had to think of how kai and banks would work. So dont take my word for it!! But i can see why hideaway was like THAT. i guess by nightfall, she just wanted to end it. I mean she did took feedback to lessen alex's presence in fire night, thank god! And i remember one of her goodreads questions about having more diverse fmcs and pd said she couldnt because of banks' character and who she was related Too and tbh idek what to make of this, because i just read the extra on her site of banks stalking michael rika kai in the valentines extra, and that LITERALLY couldve been the prologue hideaway or epilogue for corrupt. Uggghh and not the epilogue of hideaway being damon pissing? Ughhhhhh i hate himmmm.

excuse me ko, i sound so hateful and whiny here but i only react to this to bad soap operas, because only bad soap kperas can me invested in their shitty stories like this. Im so angry but so invested? Idk but i think people who are still in the fandom are tough readers, because after my anger subside, i think i wont be touching this series again for real, these characters, these books, these stories and this author just make me angry!!! How do yall stay sane here. Your fanfics are one of the reason i like willemmy in an au. No but seriously, theyre so fun to read! I really appreciate the fanfics you put out for free, and all the games and fan things you do on your blogs! And unexpectedly, i didnt know i need that banks emmy hollow fic! Thank you for that female characters bonding 🥰

if you have any happy books or shows that i can watch with no angst or bullying, please do send my way 🥹🫶 i think i need a cleanse from this series

Heyyyy! I’m so happy you're b-ohhh…

And i actually read the bonus rikabanks and wtf? 🤮 i shouldve listened to you!!!!! Wtf?

Well. What can I say? Sometimes curiosity gets the better of you. Looks like you did the same thing a lot of us did: go looking for all the bonus material only to realize it doesn’t get better; it only gets worse. To this day, the only one I return to is the Hideaway deleted scene with Will. Does so much for my willemmy heart.

Why do i feel like dn series dont have any couples that will stay together for the rest of their lives?

You’re not the first to say that. Personally, I feel that these people will live the rest of their lives together, die together, and be buried together if only because no one else will put up with them (probably all at the same time if Damon gets any control, and knowing PD…)

(…am I implying that Damon will plan a murder/suicide plot, killing his wife and best friends when they reach age 80, because he can’t stand the idea of living without them, or them he? possibly.)

My least fav though would 100% be winter.

Your rant about Winter and purity cultural got me thinking a little bit. The majority of readers like to give Emmy multiple boyfriends and hook ups in her time away (I’m in the minority but that's for another time), but I truly feel that it would have given Winter’s character much more legitimacy if she was the one having hook ups.

Like, Rika’s history makes sense given how the Crist family was controlling and manipulating her.

And Banks’ virginity can be played as more of a power move. She grew up around men who treated women like toys, constantly being reminded that there’s a thin line between her and them. Her choice not to let them have access to her body, even if she had found someone other than Kai, gives her autonomy. She has the lock and key, no one else, not even Damon. It works for her character and situation.

But Winter? She was so angry with Damon after the truth came out. Not to mention, he opened her up to experiences she didn’t have before, but were suddenly taken away from her. It would have made so much sense if she had gone out and tried to erase him, tried to replace him, tried to capture whatever it was she felt in his arms with someone else, only to discover that it doesn’t work. No one else can do what Damon does for her, and she hates herself for it. Him too.

Even if she’s a little ashamed of herself, because she’s coming out of this “purity cultural” mindset, it’s fine. If she had multiple partners before her second chance with Damon, her knowing that it he’s the only one that she “works” with makes a lot more sense plot-wise. They’re messed up, but they’re messed up in similar ways, and that’s why it can’t be anyone else. Maybe that would have given Winter a bit more substance as a character, outside of being Damon’s soother. But what do you think?

and another thing that i wanna touch on: purity culture of this series.

You asked if I noticed it, and to be honest, on my first read, I didn’t. But this leads into another idea I’ve been thinking about lately, which is mostly unrelated except for the way my mind connected them.

I’ve watched a few youtube videos on how booktok and the like are promoting books, and why some of those books are just not good despite all the hype. And one person (can’t remember which video, but I’m sure this is not their opinion alone), suggested that part of the problem is the tropification of books.

Now, this doesn’t bother me. Knowing the tropes of books will get me to read the summary and then I decide from there. But that’s because I was raised on fanfiction. I didn’t have a lot of money growing up, and the library was not always easy to get to. But fanfiction was free and at my computer, and easy to access. Which means I was also exposed to all of the terms and phrases frequently used in dark romance (along with a lot of other obvious signs of lazy and cheap writing) and learned to ignore.

So the popularizing of features you’d normally only see if fanfiction/fandom spaces makes sense, because the people who were in fandom spaces when I was a teenager are now adults with money who decide what’s popular and what’s not; and therefore what gets published and picked up (and this isn't anything new, really. I think a bigger part of this is just that it's the natural evolution of the bodice rippers from years past).

And putting these thoughts together, I realized I read DN as if it were a mid-tier fanfic. I think it was written about as well a fanfic. Not that it was once FF and then turned into original fiction, like so many today. Just that it has the same level of skill and editing quality as a really good but not great, fanfic. That may be why I’m not as angry as other readers? And also why a lot of the more problematic issues went over my head? It’s the same things you overlooked to get some decently written work on ffn or ao3. Sometimes, you just had to put on your “no thoughts; just here for a good time” helmet and go.

I could be completely off on this. It’s a new idea I haven’t fully worked through, but might possibly have some merit.

That being said, it was very popular when I was a teenager – and given how hyped books with these features are today, I’m sure still is – to have a oversized, brooding, sometimes bloody MLI be totally whipped for the good girl, never seen a naked man without blushing, “he's going to ruin me and I'm going to let him,” FLI. Later, readers started calling for more empowered female characters. And some writers understood the assignment and some didn’t. PD seems to have tried to combined the two, with less than effective results.

And this goes back to my point about Winter. It’s not that this idea of “purity” doesn’t have its place, it’s how it’s used and what it says about the characters who are using it.

If Banks was a virgin by choice well into her 20s, good for her. That's a power move.

If Damon had to let go of this idea that Winter was only meant for him, of this “pure as freshly fallen snow”, and to see her worth despite it, it would have been good development.

But I think we both know that Banks being a virgin and Damon having those thoughts about Winter were not meant for character but because that’s what some readers find hot. Which is why it’s one, not enjoyable for all; and two, went straight over my head. What other people find hot has nothing to do with me. I’m still here for the character development (that never happened! I’m clearly madder about that).

But pd has never had a talent to write good female relationships either, her birthday girl book and fall away series are always fmcs fighting and putting other women down.

I tried reading bully but I don’t remember much from it. But to your point, I don’t understand why PD seems to always want women to fight, as if that’s the way to show their empowered. Like above, when readers started calling for stronger female characters, some writers took that to mean they wanted physically strong characters – which in some cases is legitimate. But it was soon made clear that that’s not what was asked for.

It seems that PD only finds female characters interesting if they’re willing to physically fight another woman because that shows…? Actually, I’m unclear what it shows, exactly. I would have loved if the girls in this story weren’t copy/paste versions of one another; if the things that made them strong was different and yet just as valid.

For example, if it was Rika’s capacity for forgiveness tempered with her growing backbone and refusal to be treated like a doormat was emphasized as what made her strong, and not her fencing/martial arts/willingness to hurt others.

If Winter had unmatched mental fortitude. I mean, come on, the girl still dances after going blind. She has resiliency. Why is she so weak when Damon’s not around? Why does she need Damon to tell her to raise her voice.

If Emory’s emphasized strength was her kindness despite her suffering, and not her ability to walk away from good things and endure massive amounts pain, which we see is mostly physical.

Again, for the most part, those are all good qualities, but usually it’s only the physical strength and willingness to use it that’s emphasized more than any other trait. And ruins them because them you have to make them be angry enough to physically fight, or want to, when these girls should be supporting each other.

I left Banks out above because her being able to physically fight is one of her more important features, and should be allowed to shine through. If the other girl’s abilities were scaled back, Banks being able to do what she does, having learned how to survive in Gabriel’s house, would have just been more outstanding.

It just goes back to having good female relationships means having a variety of women and a love of different types of personalities. I’m struggling to see PD truly enjoying characters, and more enjoying just certain plots and character traits. I think one thing that is clear is that PD is not the writer for me. Which is fine.

Maybe this was why alex was mad at emmy, among many other possible reasons than jealousy? Because emmy was her first female friend in the group who didnt start her relationship with alex being shit or judging to her from the start? And after everything still good to her? Because shes not to sincerely supportive female friendship like this? Or am i reaching?

It doesn’t really matter if you’re reaching, you’re in a fandom space now. Run with it!

I like the idea that Alex and Emmy’s relationship is unique because Emmy was the first girl to not judge her (and of all the girls, Emmy has the biggest reason to, but because she’s Emmy, all she wants if for Will to be happy). It would have been great if we could have seen Alex struggling with wanting to be Emory’s friend because of the kindness shown her, and wanting to protect Will from further hurt, which only Emmy had the ability to do. Alex wanting to be friends with both, but having to pick one because they’re on opposite sides of an issue is a real problem.

But there’s some arguing that idea because Alex left Emory exposed, and then said it’s partly because she wanted to see Emory and Will interacted. What were they, her little experiment?

There were a lot of ways that the Alex/Emory/Will issue could have been played that would have address their real issues without pitting Alex and Emory against each other the way they were, but then PD seems to love it when the girls fight, then kiss and make up.

Cant pd write just one book with fmc who's not a pure virgin with big bad sccary guy who treats her like shit?

Doesn’t PD’s new series feature this? Someone else will have to check, but I’m pretty sure. But I can’t vouch for how the mc treats the fmc.

pd had the time to make up that Aaron Palmer Fane name for Rika's baby, combining alex and will's name, and the middle name of Torrin….

This is not something I’ve discussed before but I hate PDs naming trend. What is the obsession with Fane?

Madden? Cool. Jett, nice. Indie? Would have loved if her middle name was actually Jones, because that would have been sooooo Willemmy, but I’m still hoping (stupidly) that Aspen has some real inspiration and not that they opened up a baby name book and picked the first name they saw.

But are we really surprised that the most thought when into how Rika and Damon named their kids?

Aaron Palmer – isn’t that a drink…wait, no. that’s Arnold Palmer.

Athos? An eight-year-old named herself after one of the three musketeers and where supposed to think that's cool and not totally contrived (and am I the only one who thinks it’s weird that Athos being eight technically means she was born when Rika was sixteen, which is when Corrupt first takes place…which kinda means that Michael and Rika sort of retroactively become teenage parents, as if Michael hadn’t let Rika leave that night? Like I wouldn’t be surprised if it was revealed that Athos’ birthday is in July - nine months after devil’s night.).

Dag??? Take Damon’s ability to name things away from him.

She shoudve hyped up emmy from the start in every single book. For one fact about alex, give emmy 3-4 extras.

Absolutely!!! That's so real. I’ve said it before and I’ll probably say it again, but Emory should have haunted Will the entire series. One hint in each book was not enough to sell how bad Will was truly affected by her. And if we had been given more hints, I think the shipping war probably wouldn’t have been so bad. Overall, we just needed more of Emmy’s presence throughout the series, even if she wasn’t on the page, to be really hyped for Willemmy.  

The way the idea of reading Nightfall and then going back through the series and seeing where Will was most affected by her grips me, and we never got that. ugghgh.

another thing, i read on goodreads/ pd's website that the characters' birthdate were never something that she thought too much off until the story got published them and fans asked for them.

Please don’t get me started on the birthdays/timeline. I’ve been through enough.

Idk, if i thinkabout all the way pd messed up hideaway and banks character, that'll be a whole other long rant that nobody probably gaf about, but me.

I can name like two or three blogs that would love to hear your rant. Come on, don't keep them to yourself. Share.

Idk but i think people who are still in the fandom are tough readers, because after my anger subside, i think i wont be touching this series again for real, these characters, these books, these stories and this author just make me angry!!! How do yall stay sane here.

Too true. Like I said above, I wasn’t as angry as a lot of other readers, but I mourned the lost potential. I kept reading because of Emmy, and high (too high) expectations for what this could turn into and it never went in that direction.

The mourning led to ranting with a friend, which led to me writing fics to answer the questions I had and fill in the gaps, and try to capture some of that potential. But otherwise, I wouldn’t be here. The asks keep me around. The games fill in the time between the asks, and honestly, to try and help make some of it a little better. It’s fun to play with the idealized versions of the characters in my head. This is actually a great group dynamic and if PD would let them be friends instead of trying to find away that everyone can sleep with everyone despite the fact they made their favs related, I think we could have some fun.

There are good things here, and I believe one day a talented enough artist or writer will come along and tap on that potential. Until then, we keep trying to find the joy in what’s left.

Your fanfics are one of the reason i like willemmy in an au. No but seriously, theyre so fun to read! I really appreciate the fanfics you put out for free, and all the games and fan things you do on your blogs! And unexpectedly, i didnt know i need that banks emmy hollow fic! Thank you for that female characters bonding 🥰

Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much! Hollow was definitely a response to the scene I warned you not to read, and while I know the characters aren’t perfect replicas of PD’s, I needed it too. Just happy they can bring some joy to others like they helped me.

Um.. I am horrible with recommendations. I tend to read and watch the same things over and over again. I don’t have a lot of time to read, so it takes me forever to get through things, and then I don’t remember books by their tropes; just how they made me feel. Which is why even badly written things stick with me if I enjoyed myself.

I understand if you have no intentions of touching this series again (you mentioned before how goodreads reviews were saying you just need to get through corrupt and hideaway to get to kill switch, which is so opposite of what I tell readers. If you can’t stand corrupt, quit while you’re ahead), but to catch any of the books or shows I’m into, you’d just have to hang around, unfortunately. No pressure, though. Move on to brighter places if DN talk just doesn’t work for you. Make your fandom places fun.

Thanks for coming back! And thank you for your thoughts. I enjoyed them.