#i found people that talked about fanon vs canon with proof

[notyournightsky]

I think it’s funny when people claim a character is their favorite when they also actively refuse to engage with the source material the character came from and just get their information from fics and other fan related content. Like you don’t like the character you claim to like. What you like is the fanon oc committing identity fraud of a canon character. And the information you get regarding different plot points is just the regurgitated fanon version of those plot points which often are misinterpreted or made up events.

Like fandom is welcome to everyone and you’re going to get people that for some reason refuse to engage in the source material, but those same people have to understand that fans that do engage with the source material are not always going to like these kids of fans. How would you like it if you enjoyed painting, for example, so you sign up for a painting class and the people in your class are jumping rope instead and claim that that’s what painting actually is? Like can you find a way to paint using a jump rope? Sure, but it’s not the same as using actual painting techniques.

At the very least be honest with yourself. Acknowledge that your understanding is not the gospel, and don’t get offended when someone tells you that that’s not how your favorite character acts or that that plot point happened like xyz instead of like abc.

(Sorry for the rant lmao. Saw a tiktok bashing on comic purists and the comments were a shot to the stomach. “God forbid you find out something from ao3.” <- ao3 authors lie to you. Do not believe everything they write. “Getting all my lore from ao3/tiktok/tumblr/etc.” <- you’re getting fanon lore. Not the actual lore).

[finalgirlbrainrot]

Dean very likely beat Sam when they were growing up. Notice how Sam was never surprised when Dean punched him on the show (you can see Sam expecting Dean to turn violent as early as in the Pilot - I'm talking about the bridge scene). Dean was definitely not the loving caretaker, sacrificing his own childhood and always standing up for Sam as the fandom likes to picture it.

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree

I mean, even as children, we see dean verbally lashing out at sam and while that instance can be brushed aside as him being a kid, the fact that, like you said, sam wasn't surprised when dean got violent with him in the pilot and the fact that it kept happening over and over again over the course of the series, with sam rarely responding, clearly shows that it's a consistent pattern

and yeah, dean definitely wasn't the caretaker people make him out to be and sam's childhood wasn't wasn't all flowers and puppies. I mean, let's look at what we actually know about sam's childhood (this is gonna get a bit long, oops)

100% canon informations about sam's childhood and his life before stanford (and about dean as a caretaker):

- sam never had a normal childhood, his childhood was taken away from him when he was six months old (as opposed to dean who had a normal childhood until he was four)

- he never had a stable home (something that, again, dean had for four years)

- he was forced to move around from school to school every couple of weeks

- he never had a mom to cut the crusts off of his toast

- just as the level of information was damaging to dean, the level of secrecy was damaging to sam, because it left him unable to protect himself when he was left alone

- he almost got killed by a shtriga once

- he was often left alone in random motels at a very young age

- he was so lonely and neglected that he needed a zanna

- he was so lonely and neglected that he wanted to run away

- he was fourteen years old the first time someone asked him what he wanted to do with his life. no-one in his family had ever bothered to ask him what he wanted. dean was eighteen at the time, so it can't really be attributed to him being a child; the fact that he never asked sam what he wanted is proof enough that he wasn't the caretaker people make him out to be

- he was expected to blindly follow john and dean's obsession to avenge mary, but he's not even allowed to mention her

- dean supported and sided with john during the fight before sam left for stanford

- I don't know if people consider it as canon, but in john's diary, john said that dean almost hit sam before he left and he had to hold him back and he even said something about how he didn't expect dean to cut ties with sam (so for the people who claim john forced dean to chose or whatever: don't, it was 100% dean's choice to side with john)

- he was literally disowned for wanting to go to college

- in 1x08 dean victim blamed sam for john's abuse

- this convo from 1x08: "remind you of somebody?" "dad? dad never treated us like that" "well, dad never treated you like that. you were perfect. he was all over my case" "maybe he had to raise his voice, but sometimes you were out of line"

- "I remember that fight. in fact, I seem to recall a few choice phrases coming out of your mouth" yeah, sorry, but if my dad disowns me for wanting to go to college, I'm allowed to say a few "choice phrases"

- in 7x03 dean gave john the phone so he could guilt trip sam into exhausting himself doing research (yet people love to cling to the completely fanon "dean protected sam from john's abuse" bullshit)

- sam to amy: "my dad [has a temper] too. you don't want to see him when he's drinking" (yet people love to insist that dean was the only one who was physically abused)

- when he told john that he was afraid of the thing under his bed, he handed him a weapon. what a nice normal childhood

- he was so miserable with the life john and dean forced him into that his ~~~family was missing from his heaven. everyone loves to make sam's heaven in 5x16 about poor dean's ~~~feelings, but no-one stops to consider that, if these are sam's happiest memories, then he must be pretty fucking miserable

- he never even had a proper thanksgiving with his family

- dean was four, there's literally no way he was able to raise him

- he always felt unclean and impure even as a kid

- he was left for hours at pennywhistle's all by himself and developed a clown phobia as a result (a phobia that dean, as a full grown adult, mocks him for)

- people love to use the lucky charms incident to fuel their parentification fantasies but that's something literally any older sibling would do. I've also seen people use it as a proof that dean starved for sam or whatever and like,,, let me tell you something: literally no starving kid would throw away perfectly good food like that EVER

- john and dean made him feel like a freak because he wanted to go to school and live his life

- the ONLY time we ever see dean not taking john's side is in 1x21. and he wasn't taking sam's side either, he was just playing peacemaker

- sam thought that even if they found him, john wouldn't even want to see him

- even bobby said that john always pushed sam away

100% canon information about john's treatment of dean vs his treatment of sam:

- john literally died for dean and his last words were that he might have to kill sam

- dean saying that he always gets the extra cookie

- when john came back as a ghost, he gave dean a comforting pat on the shoulder and merely nodded at sam

- when they reunited in s1, john hugged dean, while barely acknowledging sam

- again, the convo from 1x08 I quoted above

BUT azazel said sam was john's favourite, so I guess that's more reliable than all the on screen evidence to the contrary

send me unpopular opinions

[e-vasong]

Can I ask about your writing process?

Huge fan of your TUA fics here - the way you just GET the characters is incredible - its almost like reading a novel written by the actual show writers!

How do you go about your characterisation and your drafting process? Any tips on nailing the complexities of the characters (specifically five)?

Thanks!!!

:') This is literally so nice I don't know how to respond, oh my goodness. I wish I had, like, life-altering writing wisdom for you here, but I honestly feel like my entire process is kind of a mess. I'll share it with you anyways, though, just in case you can glean anything helpful from it. I’ll tuck it below a cut, but here it is (ft. some of my specific characterization notes on Five, since you asked :D).

Pre-draft: Concept stage! This can be a variety of things -- sometimes it's a specific scene. For me it's usually a challenge of some sort. I like to take things that I think are unlikely for a character (under what circumstances would [x] character ever become a bad guy? How would [x] character’s secrets get revealed if they never talk willingly about their emotions?) Then I build out from there. I outline sometimes now, but I’ve been winging all my pieces for so long that it’s pretty tough for me. 

Draft one: Throw things at the wall. If I let myself, I will spend way too long agonizing on making every word perfect on the first go around, and I’ll never write anything. So draft one has permission to be as bad as it needs to be: sentence fragments, OOC dialogue/actions, clunky word choice, the whole nine yards. The most important thing is getting the words/scenes on the page.

Draft two: What sticks? Everyone is different -- I find it easier to edit than to write in the first place. So here’s where I look over my work from draft one. Is my sentence structure variable enough? How are their voices? Their actions? Does the narration work with the POV I’m using for the scene? 

Like, okay. I’m working on chapter two of the end of the war right now. Currently, it includes this line:

“How did you even—” Five starts, then shakes himself.  Absolutely not.  He isn’t entertaining this.  “Luther.”

In retrospect, I’m not wild about it. It doesn’t sound in character to me. I’m not pulling out receipts right now or anything, but the more I think about it, the more that I feel certain that Five rarely expresses surprise unless really shocked. Part of this is likely the contrast between him in his siblings (all the stuff about the Apocalypse and time travel is familiar to him and new to them, so the show has a lot of “Five explains [x] to his siblings while they look flabbergasted by him.”)

Anyways, it doesn’t sit right. So maybe, instead:

Five frowns, taken off guard. He could ask, but--quite frankly--he’s starting to think that he doesn’t want to know. He does, however, know what this is a preface to -- Luther is going to meddle. 

“Luther,” Five says it like a warning. Luther either doesn’t hear it or doesn’t care.

Anyways, rinse and repeat step two as much as necessary, and you basically have my entire drafting process.

Characterization, though, I have a more thorough process for!

Fanon and meta is super, super helpful, but I definitely prefer to look at canon first and foremost. I find it easiest to build characterization by asking myself questions about the character! I mean, don’t get me wrong. The first step is just to...get your own read on their personality? And there’s no trick to that. Everyone comes away from watching a show/reading a book with a slightly different interpretation of a character’s personality. But when building off of that to write them, I find questions helpful. They vary from fandom to fandom, but, like, here are some of the questions I’ve asked myself while writing Five.

What motivates them? For Five, this is a super easy one. He literally says it at multiple points throughout the show. He’s motivated by his family. To the point of wanting to save the world because they’re a part of it. Five troops through injury and pain and discomfort, but one reference from Handler about a deal to save his family is enough to coerce Five into 1 - working with her when he doesn’t want to and 2 - taking a job that he doesn’t seem like he wants to take.

How far are they willing to go to get it? For Five, he’s willing to do pretty much anything.

Are there any contradictions in their characterization? This is a weirdly specific question, but! People are inherently contradictory. Sometimes in TV or movies or books, it’s just bad writing. But sometimes it’s because people are complicated. So, in TUA, Five is consistently a big-picture thinker throughout the series. He seems to view his job at the Commission with apathy because he knows that it’s part of maintaining the timeline and necessary for him to get back home and stop the Apocalypse. He plans to kill an innocent person because he believes the butterfly effect of their death could stop the end of the world. He is, in many ways, a utilitarian -- the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The greater good sometimes requires a lesser evil. Pull the lever in the trolley problem, and kill the one to save the five. Unless that one is one of Five’s siblings. 

For instance, his dialogue with the Handler in season one seems to imply that he is willing to give up fighting the Apocalypse if and only if she can guarantee his siblings’ safety (though this admittedly turns on how honest you think he was being with her -- I think he was honest, but smart enough to know she’d never follow through, but a fair argument can be made either way.) There are a million ways to read this, and the fun of playing with characterization is that you get to experiment with them! I read it as proof that Five is so driven by his desire to save his siblings that he actually places their wellbeing above his own moral compass (whether his moral compass is right or wrong is a whole other debate.)

What are they like at their best vs. at their worst? At his best, Five is strategic, driven, independent, determined, loyal, and protective. At his worst, he’s controlling, suspicious, bloodthirsty, temperamental, and obsessive. Of course, most people don’t just switch between these two extremes, and these traits frequently coexist, interact, and manifest in milder ways.  Five being suspicious usually manifests as him being cautious until he’s confronted with a character (in season two, Lila) that strikes him the wrong way. Him being obsessive is often just a side product of the fact that he is determined, loyal, and protective.  The fact that he can be controlling is connected to how independent he can be -- the same reason that Five tries to keep Diego in the mental hospital, never tells people that he’s injured, and hides things from them is the same reason he’s so quick and effective at getting things done. This is just a handy way of compiling a flaws/virtues list, and I like to look at it in terms of the potential extremes because I think it makes it easier to see how they interact to create the middle ground where the character actually exists.

How do they talk? Arguably the most important question for actually getting their voice, and the easiest way to nail this down is to just...look at the canon dialogue. Does the character use really big words? Do they talk in long gusts or in short, clipped sentences?  Do they use contractions more or do they not shorten things? This is the hardest part of writing Five for me, because my first impulse is to make him talk like an Intellectual (tm) and Very Erudite Adult. Like, I default to that when writing him, and it’s a horrible habit (in my opinion) because...while he does speak that way sometimes (usually when explaining things to his siblings) that’s not actually how he talks most of the time.  (Like, for instance, I tend to default away from Five using contractions in my first drafts of things. He actually uses contractions a lot, and frequently shortens words--”got to” is “gotta” for Five, “because” becomes “‘cause”, etc.) 

Other examples:

Five: Billions of people are about to die tonight. You can change that.

The Handler: Tonight, tomorrow. So little difference in the scheme of things. Don't you remember the Commission's raison d'etre? What's meant to be is meant to be, or, as I like to say, que será, será.

Five: It's bullshit in any language.

I love this exchange so much :D. And it establishes some great things about the way Five talks! He doesn’t dance around the issue or debate her or try and prove her wrong. He just tells her he thinks that that opinion is dumb, obviously.  He’s blunt, straightforward, and honest. (This seems to tie into the thing I was saying about Five and contractions -- he picks the most straightforward way of saying things unless he’s giving a technical explanation.)

Five: Okay, Luther, but be careful. I mean, I've... I've lived a long life, but you're still a young man. You got your whole life ahead of you. Don't waste it.

Five talks like an old man. Not all the time (though there’s a wonderful gif set out there somewhere of Five using old timer slang -- wait, I found it here.) He doesn’t use the old-timey slang all the time -- and I personally like the idea of mixing up Five’s slang habits and including slang from all sorts of eras because he’s a time traveler whose primary source of interaction after four decades alone was other time traveling assassins. But! He also talks in a way where he shows his age. 

Regardless of where you think Five’s psychological age falls (I have my own Opinions on this), he seems to unilaterally view himself as the Big Sibling, and by a very large margin at that. That’s reflected in how he talks. Not always, since not every line of dialogue is relevant to his age. But stuff like this, or related to it, crops up a fair amount. He counsels his siblings on their problems (as when he comforted Diego post-Eudora’s death), and there are little moments like the quote above, where the point is that Five has indeed seen many more years than his siblings and has the perspective to reflect that.

Well, this is way too long now, and it’s really late where I’m at. I feel like the comprehensibility of this post has been steadily declining the whole time, but if other writers have tips that they want to add onto this, please go ahead! 

[np-c]

Fanon as canon

(sry for bad writing, that’s gonna be some gramatic wrong shit but i NEED to say this -aahhh this is hard, sorry)

That’s not a message to antis (fuck them) but massage to pro-shippers. In our fandom we have some weird shit that we all agreed is canon? Its all because bakudeku started as enemies..? rivals? definetly not friends? Because Bakugo told Deku to go to kill himself.

That was a first episode; we didn’t know a shit except we need to protect Izuku at all costs bc he’s so adorable and just need protection. But then there is started some weird west shit where people completly ignoring what’s going on on the screen cuz no one noticed Izuku’s reaction on these words.

Well, you see, I came in fandom after wonderful villain!deku au’s and now i think its the dumbest thing fandom ever made so i was low-key shipping bakudeku. And one of the reasons why i started to watch this show was ‘cuz I wanted to see how really abusive this ship is. I wanted a proof. For my favorite kind fo AU and for my probably OTP.

...

But then I finally saw that scene, goddamn I laughed so fucking hard OMG. Pls rewatch it, PLEASE REWATCH IT WITH YOUR OPENED EYES.

Was it just me or Izuku’s first reaction was a desire to say “well fuck you too”???

Was he upset? Obviously, his notebook was thrown into window. But what else? He was angry. He wasn’t scared before Katsuki glared at him. He wasn’t crying (his usual reaction at everything). After that, he just said that Katchan was stupid to say that.

That was the moment when villain!deku died to me. But so did a big part of bakudeku fandom cuz they are so good people who can’t do anything wrong so when they do, they need to apologise и этот момент во всех фанфиках написан как по методичке And so need Bakugo BECAUSE HE BULLIED MIDORIYA FOR TEN YEARS or something like that apparently (funny thing but i figured that russian just doesn’t have an equal translation; well we have a lot of childish nouns and a lot of verbs so we can translate ‘he was bullied’ but we can’t translate ‘that guy is bully’ without it sounded stupid and childish THE FUNNIER THING: the closiest that i heard used is ‘provoker’ :D i just found that very hillarious dontmindme)

Well, the question is: was Midoriya really get bullied? I saw enough animes to think it was not the case. Or it was nothing really serious and just words. And look me in the eyes and tell me that this guy gave fuck about what people told him. Especially in middle school. He was one with his dreams against the world, even against his own mother (and i need to write another post why i hate Inko Midoriya and probably why I’ll never be accepted in your world of saints). He was quirkless and people laughed at his dreams. His mother didn’t believe in him. But Katsuki? He just wanted get rid of him.

Big bad Katsuki, right? Because you never ever in your lives met people who you thought was weird, who made you feel weird. That could be your friends sometimes or your friend’s friend or just that one classmate - you have never been in such a situation, right? I’m not saying his actions are fine - nah, he was an asshole kid, but i can understand why. Actually, if you read manga, it was said literally: Katsuki doesn’t see a problem in a bit of violence. He was raised that way, he’s angry kid, with not so family-friendly quirk (probably). But he knows when to step back, he follows rules, he’s a good student and he wouldn’t let his ‘friends’ smoke nearby bc he doesn’t want to get into trouble. His dreams (plans) are too big, he works so hard for them to happen. He might be an asshole but he’s responsible asshole за то и любим

So, some stupid kid who thinks he’s better then Katsuki (btw go rewatch their first fight but without this ‘we need to protect Deku’ bullshit in your mind and listen to their dialog - it’s a gold of comedy misunderstandings honestly) that kid thinks that he’s, being a loser (he WAS loser, smart ofc but still yeah it’s not good call him that but ffs), quirkless, can achive something for what Katsuki worked so hard. Most of you would’ve hate this kid too, don’t lie to yourselves.

But would he risk his dreams to hurt him?

Yeah, there’re moments from times when they were what? four? that frame where ‘he became bad after he got his quirk’? i honestly think it was a plothole but just imho :D Asshole violent little brat but i really would’ve love to know the whole story bc wtf. It’s probably my problem after being here too long so i automatically looking for bad things and it’s not like kids never fight. I don’t believe it was something drastically and IT IS the most drastic thing that i found in their history.

And after all... intresting point: Deku still thinks that Katsuki is amazing (even when he’s an asshole) and don’t you fucking dare call him a masochist ‘cuz he’s not. He would fight him.

He wanted to fight him when Katchan said that stupid thing (that you all so love to overthink). He fought him when they were little. He fought him in villain vs heroes lesson without that much of a second thought. Yeah, he’s nervous around him at first bc Katsuki is loud and literally explosive and yeah, from that all you can think he’s scared of him, but is he? Izuku is nervous kid in general. He always was just a nobody for his classmates and it’s not like he was naturally talanted at anything (quite opposite) and his only parental figure is Inko (she’s wonderful woman, okay? but not the greatest mother and also nervous wreck). It was his first days in UA, Class 1-A was just introduced, we didn’t know anybody, and it’s some new test already - ofc he would be nervious.

So, anyway, if Katsuki didn’t abuse him physically, he obviously did that emotionally bc... we need a scape goat and we already hate Bakugo and he told Izuku to kill himself so that’s enough. Or bc he’s the only guy from Izuku’s chilhood who’s name we know, so we can blame him - he’s important to story, right? probably bc every story need an almost-villain so we can hate him altogether. Or maybe bc it was not Bakugo, but a whole atmosphere: his classmates, teachers, his ‘I’m sorry, I’m so sorry’ mother. First of all, probably genes.

Second of all, ask yourself a question: can one stupid Izuku’s words Bakugo Katsuki break Midoriya Izuku? To the point where we call that’s a trauma, where Katsuki’s usual harsh vocabulary becomes a crime, where we write suicidal fanfics and they don’t sound stupid?

Except they does because Izuku isn’t suicidal, not even fucking close. He doesn’t have a trauma. He is just a nervous kid and - actually - he isn’t fucking weak (strong in spirit or smth like that). Funny thing: when i first watch their exam right before summer camp arc, when they started talking that great speak about impassable wall, I actually thought that can be said about Izuku :D He’s not easy to break and he easily ignores people’s opinions when he needs.  He’s self-destractive, not suicidal. Different things, guys. I’m pretty sure even if he did thought about that ‘way out’, he never made this an option. Yeah, you actually can seriosly consider this as your ‘way out’ and then think that nope, not for you.

So, after all this FUCKING TEXT WALL OMYGOD, let’s get back to the point that I didn’t even stated in first place.

Why Katsuki need to apologise? 

I’m sure at some point Katsuki hated Deku (bc Deku looked down at him whatever it was or wasn’t thruth - for Katsuki it was) and at some point Deku couldn’t leave him alone. He called him names (name ‘Deku’ was made before Deku happened to be quirkless, some people forget about that), but so did everyone and don’t make Katsuki the most evil one - unlike most, he had reasons and he’s an angry kid and Izuku was a bad guy in Katsuki’s story who wanted to destroy him while hiding behind his innocence smile - what a fucking story with a plot-twist it could’ve been, if it was Katsuki’s POV- 

Katsuki didn’t ruin Izuku’s life, not even close. You can say, he ruined his childhood, but I would risk to say that was mutual (Greetings, Inferiority Complex!). Really, can I start to say that Izuku need to apologise to Katsuki bc he didn’t even try to understant his friend?

So, Bakugo is a bully bc we never saw an angry teenager and bc Izuku is innocent and it’s just them two in the world and Izuku is the only one who was hurt no, really, no jokes here, I think Katsuki is a lot more emotionally damaged then Izuku ever was and because we have a really dumb headcanons that we forgot were just our thought ебаное слово, вечно забываю как пишется and interpretations.

So we agreed that Katsuki beat Izuku bc he was quirkless and helpless (seems like EXACTLY THE REASON WHY HE WOULD DO THIS R I G H T) and called him names (definitely not bc he felt threatened by someone who’s supposed to be just a nobody). 

...

Okay, that sounds bad so I rephrase it:

Why Katsuki should apologise to someone who he saw as a threat when he for so much reasons shouldn’t?

Not so simple anymore, hah?

Can sound dumb but ambivalent feelings is a thing. And that’s the only reason I can find to explain why Katsuki was the only one of the whole class who didn’t laughed when they’ve been told Deku’s trying get into UA. Because shitty nerd had a chance? Because shitty nerd thought that he stand the same ground as Bakugo and it wasn’t funny anymore? Because stop looking down at me?

Bakugo Katsuki is the best fucking character I’ve ever met. He’s so real. So complex.

And when you picture him as a bully or just a bad guy or abusive, you’re killing him as a character. I don’t like saying that 16y.o. are just kids, but he is AND he’s trying his best. He doesn’t understand all things and he has never met a proper rivals before and he’s definitely not a social person (and nope, you can’t change a character so deal with it and learn to see through this). And let him learn.

He may or may not look back one day and see what a little piece of shit he was, but I don’t think he would say something. He’s a man of action after all.

And I definitely think that would be unnecessary and would look forced bc Izuku doesn’t need this. Izuku isn’t a victim, and when you picture him as one, you’re killing him as a character.

(it should’ve been ended right after ‘OMG TEXT WALL’ but here we fucking are; does someone read this?

i really hope this shit is readable; if not, it’s not about my shitty english that much, but my writing, ehh)

You have headcanons - good. You figured them in a way to fill a gap in the story - great. But for the love of characters, don’t fucking pretend them to be a canon.

But really, is it just me or does first chapter look weird? It’s fctually just funny how so many people seems stuck in FIRST CHAPTER when we are close to second hundred. I’m not saying ‘heeeey character development’. I’m asking: is first chapter a really good reason to make assumptions?