#i feel like using 'all bylers think this' as like a dig or some sort of attempt at discrediting a theory is sort of weak

[chirpsythismorning]

Realistically do you still think Milvn will breakup in the first couple of episodes? I feel like the fabdom is focusing on fanon so much at this point that they are missing canon and actual narrative on the show. It seems very unlikely to me for Mvln's breakup taking place in first couple of episodes. But the fandom are still stuk in their previous thoughts and cannot seem to think differently at all and never even consider the possibility of mlvn breakup happening way later on in the next season. Most of the Byler's analyses about El's character has turned out to be wrong. El doesnt seem to be done with the relationship. She still loves Mike (or thinks she does) and she drew strength from his monologue. A mildvn breakup right into S5 does not make any sense canon narrative wise. We can argue that the show was different that the script, while i agree with it to an extent i reaaaly think people are trying way too hard to discredit the writers intention and the script here. El was not angry at Mike. She was sad about Max and Hawkins' situation. 🤷‍♀️

What i am saying is that i feel like most Bylers are misinterpetating what is happening with the narrative here and it leads to unrealistic and baseless expectations for the characters and S5 regarding how Mlvn vs Byler will take place. And i am greatly sorry but i dont think Mike lied in his monologue, like at all. And the situation reads like "Mike loved el romantically but they wont be together bc of incompitability". El is not even still over Mike. And people expect her to be like "i breakup with you bye" right into S5. Mike still has underlining feelings for El. Like... all i am saying is people shouldnt base their expectations on headcanons and fanon misinterpretations.

Lastly, while i really would like a more detailed gay coming of age and sexuality storyline for Mike, realistically going by canon i dont think its happening. Sorry. They will mostly focus on Will's sexuality and coming of age it seems like and Mike will mostly have a "realization" arc where he realizes El and him are not fit for each other and then he decides to be with Will.

Based on the show’s trend of doing break-ups (or at least implied break-ups) early in the season, yes I do think it’s likely that the audience will at least have the impression that Mike and El are broken up early in s5.

That’s based on a technique they have done repeatedly, whereas the assumption that they will break-up midseason is based on what exactly? The Duffers saying that s5 is jumping right back into the action?

I mean, if anything shouldn’t that be an indication that the arcs heavily built up in s4, that were left deliberately unresolved, are going to be dealt with in a timely manner, as opposed to being put on pause and then squished into mid s5, when we’re arguably going to have even more stuff the characters are dealing with? Like, them literally fighting for their lives?

When it comes to Mike’s monologue giving El strength according to the script, this is actually really easy to explain and so I will! 

For starters, they did not disclose El's feelings about the monologue in the Piggyback script, bc they released it knowing it would go public, at least two years before s5 is set to actually come out. They would not just throw in a huge spoiler like that, seeing as it was intentionally left unaddressed in s4, with the intention to be addressed in early s5. That’s the whole thing about s4 kind of leaving things so shaky and uncertain, with s5 jumping us right back into that, bc there was just so much set up for all of those dominos to inevitably fall.

To understand Mike’s monologue and its impact on El better, it might help to recall the memory of El’s birth and how her mother’s love is what gave her the strength to defeat Henry the first time in 79’.

I mean look at the lighting of that scene, it’s probably the brightest fucking lighting we’ve ever seen in the entire series (you know what light means... pure, genuine, true love…). And it’s because strength from love is much more powerful than strength from anger. That’s something she is literally throwing back in Henry’s face that day of the massacre, going against what he told her to do and instead using the memory of her mother’s love to beat him. 

During Mike’s monologue, we see El using anger to give her strength to finally break free and stop Vecna, all orchestrated by events that Henry has had a role in impacting, meaning he was actively going up against her this second time, all while knowing that in order to actually beat her, she needed to be vulnerable and unable to use love as strength, with her only option being anger. And so what we see is anger about Mike still woefully misunderstanding what she had tried to explain to him earlier in the season, along with watching her best friend be murdered in front of her. And look at the lighting of that scene, she's literally seeing red. The atmosphere is eerily uncertain at best.

This monologue was SOOO necessary for the narrative in order to keep the public away from considering Byler. Because they already don’t want to consider it as it is, and that monologue gives them an excuse not to. You saw how they reacted to the piggyback script? Like it was this huge sigh of relief for them? Meaning that they were having doubts…

The thing is, I have considered the possibility of a mid-season Milkvan break-up. I’ve talked about how waiting until mid-season, something that would be unprecedented bc they’ve never done it before, would be odd considering we will be dealing with vastly different concerns and conflicts by that point. 

For them to hold off settling a break-up, that was built up all of s4 (arguably since s3), until mid-s5, would fall flat. If anything jumping right into the action means all the major stuff built-up, but left unaddressed in s4, is what we’re jumping back into.

They need to address those things so that they can move on to the aftermath of all of that and then beyond that. 5 episodes of ignoring that, and then 4 episodes of it happening and processing all of it AND dealing with endgame right as the finale is coming to a close, would be hard to juggle and make satisfying.

The reason they like this approach so much, is because it allows the audience to root for the other option in the love triangle. And with Will getting home-wrecker allegations as it is, a milkvan break-up is extremely necessary this time around as well, especially with byler being endgame and them really wanting us to root for them finally. 

How can we do that if the Duffer’s break their own trend of early break-ups and in turn make it difficult for us to root for byler, all while leading on milkvan’s unnecessarily even longer (with no intention of going that route), making it even more unlikely for viewers to accept Byler endgame?

They’ve been building up to this inevitable break-up since s3, with s4 ending in a way that made it sort of obvious El is not happy with Mike and with Mike clearly struggling with something.

Are we just going ignore the implications of the inevitable painting reveal or the fact that Mike called El ‘his’ superhero (the most insulting thing he could do honestly, least of all during a love confession) at the end of s4, and have that confrontation be stretched out? For what? El hasn’t even responded to it or told us her side at all? She told Mike she missed him and that’s it… That’s all we’ve got. Like, let her speak and actually say how she feels about their fight in her room and the events at Surfer Boy and everything leading up to this inevitable moment for them.

While Mike and El didn’t outright break up in s4, there was heavy implications of it, and that was for a reason. They wanted us to watch those Will and Mike scenes throughout the season and see something more. Even though it didn’t end with a kiss between them, nor them officially getting together, they still did it because they wanted us to interpret those scenes as romantic comfortably. That's also why they kept Mike and El seperate at the end of s4, because they wanted us to look at Mike and Will in a way that made us go 🫣🫣🫣 at the very least.

Now, if s5 is leading to Byler endgame, just imagine how much more important it is to make it really clear that Mike and El aren’t happening?

Another even more important reason to have break-ups early in a season in general, is to allow the overall season to have a vibe that is cohesive as it’s own entity. Major stuff happens at the beginning and major stuff happens at the end, with the middle making up the overall vibe and feeling they want us to subscribe to the whole time, with certain pairings being constant that time more than the end/beginning. It makes more sense for us to root for byler most of the season, the whole middle, and for the first time at the end now as well, while letting go of El and Mike early on, even if it’s ambiguous like it was in the previous season. Personally I think the prospects of a dump your ass parallel are high… (can we do something interesting and fun like speculate how the break up would go down? Will it be angsty? Will it be lighthearted? Like I want to see all of those hot takes bc that's actually something that is more fun to think about than the 'when').

I know some people are here because they love romances or love queer romances and just enjoy shipping in general, but I’m genuinely here bc Byler makes sense based on all that stuff you would probably consider to be reaching. That stuff is the best part to me. So, if you don’t like others doing that, then consider muting those that you deem as people ‘misinterpreting the narrative’, again, according to you. 

At the end of the day you can believe whatever you want to believe. 

This idea that it’s okay to tell other people they are wrong and have baseless claims, all while ignoring the actual evidence they are presenting… Like I mean this just comes off like Milkvan’s telling Bylers they’re delusional for considering Mike and Will as being a possibility at all. If you have to constantly use, it’s not that deep as your core argument after being presented with evidence, while only yourself giving maybe one or two reasons at most for why your interpretation makes the most sense, then you’re probably not actually open to considering things based on evidence. You want to believe what you want to believe and you're projecting onto others for not following along with it.

Especially when it comes to the whole Mike having a coming of age story or whatever, where some fans have tried to make the argument that there is nothing to support that, when that actually couldn’t be further from the truth. Bylers have provided heaps of evidence. If all of that is not enough for you, that’s something that you have to contend with at this time. Just like us believing what we believe based on evidence we’ve gathered is our concern and something we have to deal with, not you. No need to apologize! Just try to worry about your own interpretation of things and feeling confident in that, but without having to tear down others' because they don’t subscribe to yours interpretation of things.

Because I feel like it would honestly be a lot more humiliating to insist other peoples theories are wrong and they’re only going to embarrass themselves in the end, only for that person saying that to end up being wrong… Everyone is making theories and everyone is bound to be wrong about some or even most. That's okay. That's natural. That's sort of an unwritten part in the agreement we all agree to by participating in this theorizing in fandom experience.

When it comes to Mike again and his arc, I always say this, but it really comes down to this more than anything.

Finn is 2nd top billed among the kids. He used to be THE top billed among the kids for s1-3, but then he got bumped down behind Millie in s4. There is a major possibility, that Noah is going to be ranked up, with him going from being paired up with Sadie, under Gaten and Caleb, to be bumped up under Finn with them sharing a title card. Though it’s unlikely they would rank Finn down under Noah, who was not even in the opening credits of s1, while he was the first name that season and the following two, meaning Finn's character Mike needs to live up to that top billed spot right behind Millie. He needs to have an arc on his own that is equally as substantial as Will and El's arcs, and separate from them just like theirs will have aspects that are separate from Mike as well.

Because Mike was the protagonist of the first season, he HAS to be important again in a similar vein in the end for the show to work as an overall five part story. When people go back to rewatch after s5, they are going to be met with Mike front and center. That will only be satisfying if we get genuine insight into his character in the final season, beyond the surface level.

Quite honestly, ALL of the kids deserve something deeper than what you are implying for Mike, and so applying that to him, the og protagonist, is just so absurd to me. If anyone is going to come out with a surprising arc we’re not expecting, it’s Mike. The audience is already not expecting Will to actually get the boy, that's the aspect that they aren't prepared for for Will, and so what about Mike's unexpected reveal?

Literally most of the audience doesn’t even think there is the slightest possibility Mike could be queer. You don’t think that warrants some addressing and unpacking…? You know… because he never really unpacked…?

I feel like people hear me say Mike is going to be important in s5 and go oh so you don’t think Will is the main character?? And it’s like?? Honestly my answer is yes and no. I think Will is literally the spine, the heart, or whatever you want to call it. In Finn's own words, he is the reason that everything happens and he is the most important character arguably, because of how important he is in terms of all of these events taking place throughout the series.

However, Mike is at the forefront from the very beginning and we arguably see everything from his eyes in s1 and 2 more than anyone else. But that goes away in s3-4. And that felt extremely intentional based on what is about to go down (byler endgame). You can tell that by doing this, they are trying to lead up to a reveal that brings him back to his original place in the story for the audience to see him as his most authentic self again, and with answers for why we lost that insight in between.

I could count up at least 20 Easter eggs hinting at Mike being in danger/targeted, which goes all the way back to the first episode of the series. 

This isn't even considering, that another trend they’re likely to bring back in s5, bc if they don’t they’d be breaking a series long trend, is Mike being late. He starts every season late. And so, what is Mike going to be late for this time? Could it have something to do with all of the unknowns about him that are yet to be addressed?

I think that sometimes we say that something isn’t going to happen because we don’t want it to. A lot of this stuff I’m saying happening isn’t based on feelings, it’s based on actual evidence.

If you don’t want certain things to happen because of x, y, z, you can just say that is the case instead of making arguments that there is nothing supporting it, when that’s not actually true?

Like nothing? Nothing at all? Baseless? Like, be serious rn.

ST5 is very likely going to give off s1-2 vibes. While Mike is going to be less in the background compared to s3-4, Will AND El are still going to have equal, if not more attention than him, bc I do believe that their bond is what is going to also be a part of saving Hawkins.

The ending is going to be surprising bc those primary color-coded bitches are the answer to it all. If me saying that upsets anyone because it goes against their interpretation of things, I'm sorry too I guess!

[byler-4-life]

Can we talk about how Vecna is kinda the perfect villain for byler?

Like even back before Season 3 (when I was relatively high on the chances byler would become canon), I knew it was going to be difficult to pull off and feel natural to the general watchers. My best idea for them to do it was have some sort of montage of all the little moments between Mike and Will throughout all the seasons. You know, all the scenes that byler shippers view as the basis of their relationship, but majority of viewers discounted as 'normal friend behavior'.

My thought was that they could maybe splice these in during a confession, kind of just show how this relationship has developed, it wasn't out of nowhere etc. But it wasn't a great idea. It was a little cumbersome to pull off. But now...

Now that Vecna is taking people's memories and innermost thoughts and using them against them, we can get the flashbacks and more! We can get the characters reacting to the flashbacks in real time, just like we did with Max in Volume 1. This villain is allowing us to dig into the characters' past seasons and even get some exposition into what they were really thinking.

For example, we've seen some shots that point to someone reliving the Snow Ball from the end of Season 2. If Vecna is using this as a traumatic memory, there's really only one person (for sure) who wasn't having fun at the Snow Ball. And that's Will. Forcing him to relive that while showing the audience that he in fact didn't wanna dance with that girl is just one example of what we could see here. Vecna has really expanded the scope of what's possible, all while fitting seamlessly into the overall plot.

[proud-losers]

Mileven and Byler outcome depictions in episode of All My Children

So, this is my first contribution to the Byler/Byeler tag. I was recently very inspired by @kaypeace21 to dig deeper into Stranger Things, since, after watching season 3 and noticing some things more strongly, I wanted to get much closer to the series than I previously was. I’m also quite new to using tumblr and sharing, so sorry in advance if I mess up something or someone’s already covered everything here! Or if I don’t exactly explain well enough what’s in my head.

There’s this moment in episode 2 of season 2 where El is watching television and one of the channels shows an episode of All My Children (and this episode would’ve been released around the time El is watching it, so that’s very good homework done by the Duffers). What I have is obvious where Mileven and Byler are concerned on the surface level, and after reading kaypeace’s content, but I think these are cool additions to what she talks about so here I go anyway:

The full scene goes as follows:

Alright, now to unpack.

The Duffers said they showed El watching Frankenstein (in this same episode) to depict how El feels like a monster, so why wouldn’t this episode of All My Children contain some sort of deeper significance? This one clip both describes and foreshadows what happens in season 3 between Mike and El and what will happen later between Mike and Will.

I did some research on the background of this All My Children episode’s context and realized the episode El is watching comes after Erica Kane, the woman in-scene, loses her husband in a tragic accident (in which he did not actually die, but this is irrelevant to the main points I’m drawing) and rather quickly gets involved with a man whose name happens to be Mike (same man in-scene). Erica and Mike get together quickly after Erica’s husband’s “death,” and Mike wants her to marry him very shortly after they meet—too quickly after and even during a tragic circumstance. It’s reminiscent of the way in which El gets together with Mike: quickly and born out of tragic circumstances. The word “impetuous,” is specifically highlighted in the scene. It means to be impulsive, rash, hasty: all perfect descriptors of how fast El and Mike supposedly ‘fell in love’ and get together.

It is also important to note that, with Mike’s proposal, the scene’s dialogue cuts off before Erica agrees. The audience isn’t allowed to hear it, which seems intentional. Perhaps because El will move away from her relationship with Mike. Because Mileven won’t be together in the end, just as Erica and Mike ultimately aren’t together in the end either.

When it comes to associating the two Mikes, it’s incredibly interesting that Erica not only says her Mike’s proposal is sudden but is also ‘not like him.’ Fans of All My Children say Mike professes his ‘undying love’ for Erica very shortly after their meeting; again, it’s too quick of a confession, and how can he already be so sure his love is so undying and true? Mike says he is this way—“wild and impetuous”—because Erica made him that way. Now, based on kaypeace’s posts regarding Mike Wheeler’s sexuality and not truly being in love with El but rather Will (example: https://kaypeace21.tumblr.com/post/186074563119/yeah-mike-is-in-denial-and-lying-about-being-in), Mike is with El because there is security with her. It is ‘not like him’ to be in this sort of [heterosexual] relationship in which he is only in it—impetuously so—because of El (highlighted gesture El makes to herself while saying “Me?”), or rather he is ‘this way’ because of the idea of her.

Segway to the highlighted line: “People are going to be aghast.” This line gives me two interpretations, likely going hand-in-hand. Mike and El being together in season 3 do cause a number of “aghast” reactions: Dustin calling it out as “bullshit,” Hopper not finding their relationship normal, Max not approving of the way El is treated, etc. People should be ‘loving it,’ the perceived normalcy of it from Mike’s perspective perhaps, but this relationship is ill-fitting. Even the kiss El initiates in the finale of season 3 shows a very obviously discomfited and confused Mike; he could be thinking ‘I should be loving it,’ and yet it would just not be like him to love it because he is not truly in love with El. There’s also the thought of the aghast reactions toward Byler when it comes about, because it will ‘stun the whole town [Hawkins]/the whole world [viewers perhaps?].’ What of the “they’re gonna love it” line then? The people who matter are going to love them.

There’s certainly more that can be expanded on here, though I think reading kaypeace’s stuff shows the expansions clearly already. Even without the background context, however, just the dialogue alone and the words El highlights points to her relationship with Mike + eventual Byler. I wouldn’t put it past the Duffers to have made this intentional with the background context regardless, since they went as far as to carefully select this particular episode that played in the fall of 1984. Of any other romantic soaps that could’ve played for El, why one with this sort of context that is relevant to El, Mike, and Will? It’s yet another thing in Stranger Things that consistently hints to what’s coming next with these characters, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence.