#i dont think its intrinsic per se bc i know and continue to encounter a lot of cis goths who are ultimately really enforcing gender norms

[mortimer]

hi there, not trying to start anything weird and i hope i don't offend. i like your aesthetics, may i ask your opinions on the intrinsic connection between gothic-style nonconformity and gender presentation? or any thoughts on the matter? if that's too weird or broad of a question i'll take a gif if you've got one, no hard feelings.

in my personal experience i think the desire to subvert gender and to subvert mainstream culture often come from really similar places, alienation, cultural dissatisfaction, etc. androgyny has been a part of gothic style since it started (see specimen, dave vanian, robert smith, any random picture of a bunch of 80s goths, etc etcetc). & goth has always been to some degree political, so while obviously a lot of people dress goth for fun, the origins of the gender nonconformity of the style are imo very much ideological. a lot of early goths, even well into the 90s and now (though to a lesser extent, for better or for worse) were trying to push limits and shock mainstream audiences . often in unfortunate ways i will not lie but also gender nonconforming fashion (20+ years ago very controversial) was very much a part of that. i say "was" bc i find contemporary goth styles to be weirdly gender stratified and also subversion is dead when you have people on tiktok monetizing and sanitizing every little trend or twitch in subculture within days or even hours of it emerging.