#i dont know what a vowel merger is

[shatar-aethelwynn]

*nervously raises a hand* ummm as a former linguistics student who still casually interacts with the field I too am fascinated by the idea of cone and gone sounding the same. But it's not a judgement call about you. It's a fascination with the sounds. How do your other vowels sound? Which dialect of English did you first learn (which would shape how your default vowels are pronounced? Is there a specific sound environment situation involved here, such as being follwed by the nasal n? What are the phonetic rules of your native language, and do any of them apply in this situation? Do you have a sound merger between the different o-vowels that is observable in other words? Or does your native language lack the specific English vowels (we have so many of them) so in English its just hard for you to make the distinction? This is a topic that is genuinely fascinating. I want to hear you speak. Not for explotification reasons, but because language differences are amazing and I love to know about them so I can be excited that they exist. I can, in fact, fake an accent that allows me to say these words with the same vowel, so I know its theoretically possible even if I dont know whether that fake accent actually exists anywhere. Its a Descriptive not Prescriptive fascination.

let's settle this

rb + say in tags where you're from if you'd like

[starstuffandalotofcoffee]

sleeps-with-stars replied to your post “I’m watching Good Eats reloaded and it’s funny to me that in the grits...”

I'm sorry why dont those words rhyme? Please explain your sorcery to a poor southerner

The reason they rhyme in southern and appalachian accents is the pin-pen merger

In northern and most western US accents, the vowel sounds of “pin” and “pen” are different. The best explanation I know of offhand is in this video starting around 9:20 where the dialect coach, who has a fairly neutral U.S. accent, demonstrates what it sounds like in his normal speech and how he’d expect a southern U.S. speaker to say it.

So, I would say “dent” with the same vowel sound as, for example, “debt”, and I would say “flint” with the same vowel sound as “flit”, and those vowel sounds are distinct from each other. While a lot of southern speakers would pronounce “debt” and “flit” with separate vowel sounds, they’d pronounce both “dent” and “flint” with a similar vowel sound and it would be closer to the vowel sound in “flit” (the phenomenon happens before m, n, and ‘ng’ sounds).

Even people without much of a recognizable southern accent otherwise, whether it’s because they just have a very light accent or because they've lost most of the other characteristics whether on purpose (like Alton Brown) or just from living somewhere else for decades, tend to retain the pin-pen merger.

[language-obsession]

In Canto how widespread is this "lazy sounds"/懶音 phenomenon & what's your opinion on it e.g. Letting it just happen or trying to "correct" it? I've heard things like "nobody ever says 我 as ngo or 五 as ng anymore" but idk

AHAAAAAA this is a REALLY REALLY good ask !!!!!! I’ve gotten into some heated discussions with Cantonese speakers about “懶音” but as a (baby) descriptive linguist I just sit back and enjoy the show tbh. Humans have been complaining about the deterioration of human language since the beginning of human history, this is nothing new or special LOL. The change is actually very exciting, because it is a fairly recent shift, with a huge wave of pronunciation differences happening sometime after World War 2. Of course, sound shifts, like any other language shift, happen in layers over time, so the majority of speakers who have merged certain sounds together are still within the younger generation. Also, maybe you’d find it interesting to note that an earlier change occurred sometime in the 1800′s to early 1900′s, where sibilants got depalatalized in words like 張, 昌, 傷, in contrast to its non-palatal counterparts 將, 搶, 相; a distinction that still exists in many Northern Mandarin varieties (the classic zh/z, sh/s, ch/c), but in modern HK Cantonese we would pronounce the sets 張/將, 昌/搶, 傷/相 as zoeng1, coeng1 and soeng1 respectively, with no clear distinction within each set. (although some non-HK varieties have maintained the distinctions - older GZ generations still keep some distinctions I believe, but the younger GZ generation would speak similarly to people in HK)

My speech actually has most of the sound changes, because when I was younger I tried to imitate a HK accent in an attempt to make myself sound more native, so the way my brain interpreted “more HK sounding” was to adapt as many of these sound changes as possible LOL (oddly enough, before I even knew “懶音” was a thing). For example, I do find myself:

deleting ng initials a lot while also adding them where they weren’t originally (愛 oi > ngoi, 眼 ngaan > aan, 銀 ngan > an) 

I have the gwo > go, kwo > ko shift (過 gwo > go, 國 gwok > gok)

sometimes i mix up final k/t (like in 特別 dak bit > dat?k? bit or 突然 dat jin > dak jin - funnily enough, i struggled for a second when i typed out 突然 just now in jyutping lollllll)

and i also have the classic n > l merger (你 nei > lei，奶 naai > laai，男 naam > laam) 

The one change that I don’t find myself doing too much is the final ng > n merger, although I’ve heard this particularly in stereotypical 港女 speech (靚 leng > len, 橙色 caang sik > caan sik/sek, 正 zeng > zen).

One “argument” against sound change in Cantonese that I’ve heard time and time again is that we are going against what the Qieyun or Guangyun rime dictionaries have written down, since we’re losing sound distinctions. and for some highly prescriptivist Cantonese linguists, this is extremely disastrous, because once the change has occurred and a large population of people have adapted to the change, it’s very very difficult to change back the way millions of people speak. But of course, I see absolutely no problem with that, because Sinitic varieties have been changing for THOUSANDS of years. The Qieyun and Guangyun were written in 600 AD AND 1000 AD RESPECTIVELY, why are we prescribing how people should be speaking based off of thousand year old records? That being said, the Qieyun/Guangyun dictionaries are EXTREMELY EXTREMELY important in learning about Chinese phonology and to Sinitic linguistics in general, but I think it’s problematic to assume that somehow we are magically going to maintain all sound distinctions with no losses. That’s why I roll my eyes when I see Youtube videos about 粵語正讀 like “pls spare me from ur overly prescriptivist ways i do nut need u to tell me how to do the spek”

On a relevant note, if Old Chinese had never lost its derivational affixes, the Chinese varieties MIGHT (key word: MIGHT) not even have developed tones, although ofc it would be 100% impossible for a language to remain completely frozen in time for thousands of years, especially if people were actively using it on a daily basis. As well, ever since the rime dictionaries were written down, we have been merging a lot of initial consonants, and we actually lost the entire voiced consonant set in some Sinitic varieties (we have no b, d, g initial consonants in Cantonese OR Mandarin, contrary to popular belief - shocking, I know - although there’s still b, d, and g in Taiwanese Hokkien and Shanghainese for example). Some people act as if the “懶音” of today are some kind of new event started by the Youth of Today™ but it’s been happening since the time of Confucius and even way before that. Humans generally use language creatively and efficiently: we may shorten things, simplify articulation, introduce new sounds, mix things up, etc etc., and that’s all a natural part of language development, which is why old Cantonese linguists who can’t get over these so called “懶音” drain the life out of me LOL ;;; 

I assume you’re a Canto speaker as well, so next time someone tells you to stop speaking with lazy sounds, you can rant about natural language change hahahahhaa 

This is more of an afterthought actually, but some non-HK varieties of Cantonese have already undergone initial ng- dropping and certain vowel changes, even faster than some of the changes in HK and GZ Cantonese !!! On the other hand, some other Guangdong varieties have maintained a lot of sounds (even sounds that we don’t pronounce in HK/GZ Cantonese anymore). Like in 中山 and 珠海 Cantonese, they still pronounce words like 魚，驗，研，語 with an ng- initial (which is actually closer to the reconstructed Middle Chinese pronunciations), even though we’ve reduced it to a y- initial in HK/GZ Cantonese, although no one would even try to argue that /ŋ-/ > /j-/ is a detrimental sound change to Cantonese.

tl;dr - im hella salty about extreme cantonese prescriptivists and i’m excited to be part of a modern sound change !!! speak however you want bc it literally doesn’t matter !!! language is cool and dont be afraid to embrace change !!! 

Edit: I have been informed that TW Hokkien does not have a d-initial I AM A GOOF, I should’ve double checked that oop. Thanks @bessely for pointing that out though!! (Also YES I WAS GONNA MENTION THE HAKKA STUFF TOO but I don’t know enough about it to talk about it confidently hehe)

[stay-neurotic]

found one of those old survey things in my journal i used to kill time with, redoing it with my new answers <3

When's the last time you ran? - ran back to the car with juan after renfest, cause we were fucking freezing and ready to go home lmao. Do your jeans have rips, tears, and holes in them? - my work pants have holes from my bigass thighs rubbin against each other, but that’s about it. What are you dreading right now? - hmm. surprisingly nothing? i dunno. i guess confrontation. over the past few days i’ve come *this* close to running into certain people i don’t wanna talk to. Do you celebrate 420? - lmao hell yeah my dude Do you get the full 8 hours of sleep a night? - usually manage to get between 6 to 7 and a half. i don’t even get a full night’s sleep on the days i sleep in cause my body clock’s been fucked up and also my cat is noisy. If anyone came to your house on your "lazy days" what would ya'll do? - i’ve become a pretty flexible person, if someone wants to come and chill w/ me they’re more than welcome to. so long as i don’t have to entertain them i don’t mind the company. Who last grabbed your ass? - @thefacelessghoul​. too easy. next question Have you ever been on your school's track team? - fuck no Do you own a pair of Converse? - still have the black knee-high converse i mentioned the first time i answered this question. i keep em’ for cosplay purposes Did you copy and paste this survey? - yes? Do you eat raw cookie dough? - doesn’t everyone Have you ever kicked a vending machine? - vending machines have thankfully never done me wrong in the past Don't you hate it when the radio ruins good songs by playing them over and over? - doesn’t everyone Do you watch Trading Spaces? - nope, don’t watch a lot of TV in general. is this show even on the air anymore? How do you eat oreos? - whole, dunked in milk, the way god intended Have you ever stayed online for a very long time waiting for someone? - oooooohhhhhhhhhhh yes. my high school days were spent staring at a computer screen, this happened often Are you cocky? - af Could you live without a computer? - lol holy fuck no Do you wear your shoes in the house? - no? people do this? Who or what sleeps with you? - a juan, a max, and a million pillows At what age did you find out that Santa wasn't real? - don’t remember what age I was but it was on Christmas morning lol. i had suspected for a while but my suspicions were confirmed when santa’s gift to me still had the tag from target How many phones, house phones and cell phones are in your house? - i have one cell, juan has two. his second cell came from the lost-and-found of winn dixie, it’s out of service but can connect to wifi so it’s basically a social media/music device What do you do when you're sad? - hmm. umm. sleep a lot. starve myself. lose the ability to say ‘no.’ Who would you call first if you won the lottery? - my significant other followed shortly by my aunt Last time you saw your best friend? - well i haven’t seen her, really, we’re tumblr buddies. but the last time i talked to her was yesterday Are you in high school? - graduated in 2012 What jewelry are you wearing? - promise ring <3 nothing else because i’m in my fucking pajamas Is anyone on your bad side now? - my roommates for being the opposite of understanding/supportive with our (mine & juan’s) living situation and fixating on the money aspect. they’re still my friends but, just, could have used a little more empathy from them. also, the friend group who proved how ugly they all were when the drama started happening. (someone ask me about this if ur curious, i’d love to rant) What's the first thing you do when you get online? - check tumblr. Do you watch Grey's Anatomy? - again with the tv thing.  How do most people spell your name? - usually just rachel. sometimes they try really hard but end up with racheal. Would you wear a boy/girlfriends clothes? - i wear juan’s things to sleep a lot lol. he’s also given me a few of his shirts/jackets. Where do you work? - tgi motherfucking fridays. come get ur endless apps bitch, we literally will be fired on the spot for complaining about ur nontipping ass What are you doing tomorrow? - helping juan move his stuff from storage back into the apartment <3 Is Justin Timberlake becoming the next Michael Jackson? - nobody is becoming the next michael jackson Favorite name for a girl? - i love all names that start with vowels for girls Favorite name for a boy? - papa emeritus iii Will you keep your last name when you get married? - potentially. we talked about juan taking my last name. but i’m not really that attached to it at the end of the day. When was the last time you left your house? - yesterday morning, to go to work Do you return your cart? - fucking always. literally if u dont ur an asshole Do you have a dishwasher? - yup. there wasn’t one in our first apartment, and after washing dishes by hand for a year we agreed that anywhere we move had to have one or it was off the table lmao What noise do you hear? - the fan of my computer, my cat licking his paws, roommate’s music muffled on the other side of the wall. Would you survive in prison? - the only thing i’d fear is maybe pissing off the wrong person by accident. but i feel like i’d be protected by all the allies i’ve made in my cell block Who is the youngest in your family? - technically me. i have a younger sister but she was adopted as a baby and now i know nothing about her. If all of your friends were going on a road trip, who would most likey overpack? - fucking juan Do you know anyone with the same name as you? - uhh. yesterday one of my customers was overjoyed because i was the first rachael she’d met in her life who spelled my name the same way she did. does that count What's the last thing you purchased? - a sweet-ass leather & chain harness from the medieval faire. and also a lace choker. Do your siblings ever pay for stuff for you? - @cvnt-ish​ if she bought me a ticket to see her in portland then i could answer yes to this question <3 What brand are your pants right now? - not wearin’ any! Ever been to Georgia (the state)? - visited thomasville one day during a vacation with eden’s fam. it was super quaint! What irritates you most on the internet? - hmm. nazies. niceguys. trump supporters. no, you know what, just...people with shitty opinions/beliefs who are provided a forum where other people will validate their shitty views. the internet can be an echo chamber a lot of times and it’s terrifying What brand is your digital camera? - this survey was composed back when digital cameras were still a thing Do you watch movies with your parents? - can’t say I do much of anything with my parents. :/ What song best describes your life right now? - Do You Feel It? - Chaos Chaos Do you own expensive perfume/cologne? - nope. though i would like to make a trip some day soon to bath & body works and get some nice-smelling lotion. Are you taking college classes right now? - none at the moment. if my financial situation resolves itself before march then i will start with my architecture degree this fall, though. Do you like sushi? - do you breathe air? Do you get your hair cut every month? - i cut my own hair, mostly. right now though i’m just letting it grow. Do you go online everyday? - yall dont need me to answer this. you know. Will you pass this survey on? - yeah sure. whoever wants to reblog this and do it i guess. lmao. Boyfriend/Girlfriend Survey What is their name? - juan c: What pet name do you like to call them? - baby. babe. my sun & stars. How long have you been together? - just over three years. How did you meet? - through a mutual friend. she introduced me to the group and it was the beginning of the end, lol. What do you like the most about them? - how creative he is, how driven he can be when he finds a cause worthy of his effort, how introspective and intelligent and talented he is. how forgetful he can be and how dorky he always is. <3 What do you like the least about them? - his tendency to let his emotions get out of hand - though that’s something he’s making really great strides on recently. What is the best thing they have ever done for you? - kiss me, those three years ago on that chilly morning before work. starting us out on this journey together. Have they met your parents yet? - both my parents are out of the picture, but he’s met my aunt and uncle and grandma, which is what counts. and they love him to pieces of course. What would you kids look like if you had kids? - oh! i actually did one of those picture merger things one time to find this out...i lost the screenshot unfortunately though. they would be white/puerto rican mixed with really big noses and beautiful eyes. What is the worst argument you have had? - ooh. this one’s bad. we had two, during the breakup, that were extreme in a way none of our other arguments had ever been. during the first, he lashed out at me because i told him “you have a week to get out.” by the end of it we were screaming in each others’ faces and name-calling. it was ugly. the second one was when he told me he was gonna date the other girl. i was so livid i was seeing red and twice i tried to go up and hit him but he backed away from me and then got in his truck and drove off. i’m still ashamed of that. Do you still kiss a lot? - god. i lose track of how much we kiss every day... Who asked who out? - we went from being best friends to flirting pretty hardcore for a couple days, until he closed the gap suddenly and kissed me. so i guess you could say it was him. lol. Do you think you will get married? - the future is an uncertain thing, so i try not to look too far ahead anymore. still, i would like to, one day... Can you see yourself growing old with them? - again...taking it day by day. What is the one thing you would like to change about them? - absolutely fucking nothing. ...no, you know what, i’d like him to be able to remember that hot beverages go in mugs, not glasses <3 What do you think they would like to change about you? - hmm. my insecurities. they pop up fairly often now after all that’s happened. it takes a lot to reassure me. What is the first gift they ever bought you? - roses, i think. he made a lot of art for me as gifts rather than buying things. Do you have a favorite song together? - ohh, plenty. the first one that pops into mind is definitely Evidence - Marilyn Manson Which famous person do you think they look like the most? - OH OH I KNOW THIS ONE Would you say the two of you are a good match? - only in every conceivable way.