#i dont know how to explain to you that an ethnostate is a bad thing??? it doesnt matter who its for???

[dreamysheepy]

I'm just saying international law literally split Germany in half for DECADES, it should also be able to dissolve Israel

And I honestly believe it would stand a chance if the US and so much of Europe weren't backing that colonial ethnostate

[eroticcannibal]

Hello, I was wondering about how to learn more about the subject matter of Zionism and the complexity of it as a term because your post about it interested me. For reference I'm not Jewish and I'm new to learning about it, though I'm staunchly against the genocide being committed against Palestinians by the Israeli government.

I've seen the way the term is used and I'm aware my information on the subject is limited, as is my personal stake in it as someone who is non-Jewish and non-Palestinian. When doing research on the subject of zionism as a historical movement, I find a lot of descriptions of it as a colonialist movement with the goal of developing an ethnostate. One sentence from the Wikipedia page on Zionism reads: "Zionist nationalism drew from a German ethnic-nationalist theory that people of common descent should seek separation and pursue the formation of their own state."

When thinking about forms of Zionism, and in relation to your post about it, what do you mean when talking about how it's a more complex issue than Zionism being bad inherently? Or is your belief more that people with Zionist beliefs should not be seen as inherently bad? I suppose I'm unsure how to conceptualize the idea of Zionism not having inherent issues if it is based on those ideas, though since I'm no historian, I'd like to learn more about the topic and complexities surrounding it.

Pre-emptively clarifying that you're under no obligation to reply, and that if I've said anything offensive, please let me know so I can learn, as that's not my intention. I'm also not trying to argue (people often think I am); I want to learn more about this topic, and I'd rather openly admit when I want to learn more rather than being performatively "educated". Thank you!

First of all thank you so much for being reasonable and curious about this

I will preface this with i am perpetually tired and a bit stupid and I dont always word things how I want to so everyone be patient and understanding especially on such a diversive topic. Ultimately everything I say is based on the view that genocide bad, peace good, people in power suck and normal people have more in common than they have differences.

Now I am not the person to go to for a proper explanation on the broadly accepted kinds of zionism and the history of it and how that feeds into the ideas around zionism that people believe *now*. Hopefully someone else can add something useful wrt that.

My experience is largely with individual zionists and their personal beliefs, motivations and actions, and what these people have made of zionism. I will also stress that I am not going to argue if zionism broadly, or any specific version of zionism, is right or wrong. I think it is a perfectly legitimate stance to argue that all forms of zionism may have inherent issues (show me an ideology that doesnt) and im certainly not informed enough to argue against that. (Maybe someone else can offer some input here). Not only is it fucking complicated, its something that does (in the case of "zionism that supports everything happening right now") and would (for any other form of zionism) affects so many different aspects of life for different groups with different priorities that I dont think anyone is going to come up with anything that everyone is happy with. (This is mostly just disclaimer for anyone pissing on the poor lol)

So when I say that zionism is too complex and broad a term to be viewed as inherently bad, I am talking about the specific nuances that individual zionists have with their beliefs. While not a zionist, I think what other tumblr users (typically those falsely accused of being zionists) said wrt being neither zionist nor antizionst helped it click in my mind how fuzzy the boundaries between these ideologies are, where you can explain your beliefs to a zionist and an anti zionist and both could think you are on "their side". Their is overlap in ideas, a state can exist in so many forms and ultimately the promise of israel to zionists is simply safety, that does not *have* to exist as a detriment to others.

I know zionists who just want to know they have somewhere to go if they need to. Others who value the Jewish claim to the area but not at the expense of palestinians who they believe also have a valid claim. I know others who *dont* believe palestinians have a valid claim but are not opposed to living alongside palestinians. Some support seperate states bordering each other due to fear of continued violence if everyone shared one state. Some simply do not see a way of dismantling Israel without the death of Israelis and non Israeli Jews who would otherwise flee there, so support the continued existance of Israel even if they are opposed to the idea of Israel. Some want to start over with something better. Some are ideologically zionist but think that everything that has happened so far has been done wrong and is doomed to failure. Some want a religious Jewish state and some only want to guarantee enough Jews in charge that it remains a haven for persecuted Jews. Some dont even want *that* and just seek a state in which some sort of constitution enshrines the right for Jews to seek safety regardless of who is actually in charge. And there are many, regardless of their particular flavour of zionism, who are educating, donating, protesting and doing direct action in support of palestinians. Very few genuinely believe that they will gain safety through genocide.

And of course with any broad ideology there will always be the extremists, those who do want palestinians dead. But this is far from representative of everyone.

But also while I wasn't explicitly trying to talk about it in that post, I do *also* think, even if someone is opposed to zionism in all its forms, it is important to not see zionists as inherently bad people. (To be clear, for this next bit i am strictly talking about the fears of Jewish zionists and their allies, not christian zionists or those weaponising zionism to support anti palestinian sentiment or antisemitism). Ultimately zionism comes from a place of cultural and current trauma. Much like I refuse to see someone with a general wariness or distrust of men due to trauma as a bad person unless they go full terf, I will not see a zionist as a bad person unless they are calling for genocide. Jews have every reason to fear for their safety and not trust any country other than Israel to protect them. History has shown that these fears are not unfounded. How can we expect Jews as a whole to reject zionism when so many feel it is their only hope for safety (especially when there is practically no talk of an alternative?) It is human to want yourself, your family and your community to be safe. I know that I would do far more than just hold a political belief, over far less than a proven history of my people being slaughtered, to protect far fewer than everyone I care about. As would most people.

(Slight tangent here but why this is so important to me is largely driven by my belief that understanding this is vital for peace so)

I also think it is simply not beneficial to palestinians to treat every zionist like their beliefs make them an inherently bad person. It further polarises things when you tell people that wanting safety means they support the very worst version of their ideology which makes them easier to radicalised because you strip them of any more moderate community support (again to make the terf analogy, they use the "if you are critical of men you are spouting terf ideology" shit as a way to recruit traumatised people), all this feeds into people pushing ideas like "all Jews must be zionists (for their own safety because no one else cares)" and therefore "all Jews are bad (because they are all zionists and zionists must support genocide)", creating that kind of fear will only lead to Israelis and palestinians being more fearful of and more radicalised against each other, which just fuels and supports violence. Us vs them has always been an effective method of radicalising people towards violence and supporting the violence a state commits. And like. Thats something that innocent normal people always lose on both sides and that only benefits people in power.

I genuinely believe that an effective way forward is to support peaceful zionism that addresses the trauma and legitimate fears that have led to zionism as an alternative for radicalised zionists (and more realistic than trying to push them towards anti zionism) but that cannot happen while all of zionism is seen as inherently genocidal.

(Also just to touch on christian zionism and the weaponising of zionism briefly, I think it does a disservice to the discussion when people do not distinguish between these and Jewish and Jewish supportive zionism. So much of the discourse around zionism, either explicitly or implicitly, targets Jewish zionism, when so much of what feeds the violence and especially financial and logistical support of violence is these other zionsims. There are more christian zionists specifically in the US alone than there are Jews in the world. And honestly it just kind of feels very wrong that these kinds of zionism get conflated to the detriment of Jews as a whole, when Christian zionism is motivated by the desire to harm Jews and weaponised zionism seeks to harm both sides.)

Anyway I hope I've addressed your questions properly (I struggle with long asks and long responses because memory issues and I have to keep scrolling up and down to reread anything). Feel free to re ask anything I missed or ask for clarification, hope I did not ramble too much on tangents. Its just one of those topics where you talk about one thing and you have to talk about everything else that connects to it.

And everyone else please be normal about this. Ultimately everyone involved in this conversation opposes genocide and supports peace, and I do not make my space welcoming to people who believe otherwise, so we can be civil and nuanced about this.

[blackdeathfan5]

what is tranny female groups? transwomne, bunsikimue and more! thats not bun fae or em for the opressive white cishet! ^_^ :D vampire (he him)

so weve all heard the news that transgirl is now male only. And transowmen is the female gorup that like likes emo boys. i am the emo boys in photos. we all know that trangender is only male now. what does that even mean, why do you have to keep explaing this ariel, as your name is, why are you still trying it to give it to the women into that that transitioend to just be women.

lemme explain to you listen homestuck i slike sucbusus.

i guess i would say. That in general. Women are defiend by groups they pick out selfishly in which men want to grow or age out of to sperate teh genders, that is only netural cus your given human rights marking a lack of gender male looking or sections in most places. because women would steal it weirldy. if for them in look. So lack of gender is transgender and tehcnially male cus it just has to go somewhre. yeah. teh history of jsut being a women is a women only thing. as girls is for both females and men and boys but not women. Its the same group thoguh called Ashly or Ashybeers. Ashybeers is a big word like ponyclubs (tiredsome torture in teh method of context easily expressed on teh cartoon ponys of noahs arcs artsyle or adam snowfalesk pony pails) and its is the boobs and nook cateogires, where if they want a males they have been the category, or they kind of sort of, were insane a weird way. And in general. it is the history of my preminitions right now. The story of that gender and cateogry. is that women would just when ready say women, and secrelty hide that they tranistioend cus it would be asumed fetihs. Transomwen is actually just a feiths group for all genders, asumed women for crossdressing lies bad jokes and the hstory of them as bones thrown to it. Deimgirls is a women only group meaning they relate to transgender and transition but it is drawn the line at somehow for pronouns for them. so men can be among it, but it is not a gender group. And that is how you make transgender acomdate women.

but adam that is so much work as satan levaithin cant you be a cute fox? My name is really birlbi.

the history of tranny is its only meant to be insutling as a black panther sailor moon group towars non oreintal women. Its supseod to jsut offend non slanted eyes groups even black. That are women not female, not youthful or biraga, to the male virbant. Female only gorups want transgender so bad. But its often repalced by jsut taking motions. i am a male i amd that video my prouns are on the right, and my asumptions in red are on the left.

In general, the history of making gender groups for woeman, is that its boobs and V so 8-V, as a model, and men would still sometimes go with both is what we dont tell you. Some to older men sit to pee and we jsut dont tell you. All menw ipe and we just dont tell you unless for a urinal and most dont prefer it but its a gender group thing to use it and we just dont tell you. The history of me having to learn is because i was raised in a male only ethnostate under themescara rule in nesbraksa bce, and was brought back because of my opnions on jesus as john the bapist over it alot as belladana the saint.

I am not seen as a godess unless your into angel worship or weirdly inlove with hekate and aradia my good bitch. by most of who i cater to.

and in general. the history of aries in teh dress is my office. meaning transwomen are somethign i guard as a divnity of. The history of saints and gosepls and me a gosepl sain tbigger then teresia is irelevnet.

You still deserve transgneder you just have to know why you dont want it if your both genders or women fully. Its hurting yourslef, but lackign the razer and no shaveing or pretty things, its being selfless and not ever taking for these things, and removing kid stuff like hosuewife and long hair and mermaids, then its making it the boring stuff by earning it eebing cool, for only your stuff, and then emo the second its a sex thing, and its not a fetihs, unless theirs blood and gore and wheels and the binding of isac there. and thats transgender groups in general. but transgneder. not its updates.

a fetish or women only group is: Unless the singless a halfblood thing with percy jackson as adam snowflake cus he was raised it, i like to have it selfisley and be kinda mean and say what i want about it, its cus im h ot to do thes thingsa and stupidly girly, and not in a lolita or a fish kind of way, or fantasy kind of way, and its becuase the effort is looks alone, and the sex is the point when oldr and im hoping for it now kind of not really its just in my head sometimes, and i like these things, because its hot when it is a fetish for sex, and i want to strive for it,a nd its only platonic when its mixed with guys like adam stupidly wanting in or both gender.

i have a disorder where human gender concepts are based off me as ariel as both are my resides. please for the love of god know i am the male only ex and sometimes simese twin when it happesn again. i am the male only person without fetishes tehcnially by tests. i amt he male only fucia in homestuck and im agender, aracial, aseexual, and weve tested why im aromatic. I am a set of evolution gone wrong cus i was gene spliced to exist. you are just never gona be me as the creator of bioshock. i was egunics to live. and i chose to thinking my soul told people to do it skisorepnic. i am a male outside disordesr in female only groups and it looks god awful same iwth race as im 1 16th native american and hal firish and who all those racists are copyign that are not me as pochtnus or cherokee where it is my job as a chief to say that shit. they stole it to try to say it. or they worship a civil rights mlk jr who i am to say it. you are just never gona be me. to be both gourps youd draw the line at your chest being the sexy thing to people on basis of hair eating. and i woudnt. i am weird. you are not me. calm down. you can be both genders. its just you have a preference and i only want male cus it is so much of the earning self harm thing or i want to be with girls cus they will harm me. and tha tis unsual and sick of me as dazai osamu. that is sick in the head of me as adam snowflake. it is gross to some and many i dont have a ballsack. so hard they have to just have to put me with the girls as the female docotrs. thats a sselfish imature thing onyl women get. im just 7/16 with a disorder on my age forever. i was bioglocially engeineered to be a scinetists wet dream to study. an di chose transgneder. tahts right we choose it. and im stupid enough to say it. but i am also stupid enoguht to tell you as hamitlon i chose it as a cisngender male. and to be a transamle as every gender as all of them. then its update swhen not alloed. like bandito. i am so a bandito ponita male saying this out in the open wearing skeleton rugbies stuff. if anyone wants to ever scalp this girl on chips i knwo before we meet john green at my party later today and its not ht evil ending we already had since her mafia dad is there.

thats me proving i am amle :D vampire! clearly fox! cleraly nyadntham hmmmmmm, cute little adam things ovisouly stoners! haha i proved i am a boy.

i am a self idenitifed fox named brilbi. rawr my mom also named me as nepeteta after satan once. it is a thing with my names.

rarw!

and i have a disorder where im 16 year old male, 13 year old on all gender neturals until old systems which is why i can be in female or other skin color only groups, and then im biolgicialyl 7 and i indeitfy as an imp or a fox. weird. i have their dna spliecd in me ksitne kstinue ktisneu im a kitsunem! rawr as inyausaha!

i think i count for a male until like your a boring adult with pubetery proeblems.....

anyways the history is genders are weirdly based on me. humans bred ourslves we domensticated through facial dympshism. the rape face is back. your welcome as a former nethadral it is in place of a stretching thing and it will be taught only in gymaistscs in old galtiay collgnies.

and in general. so no female is a i take, i want, and im cruel, and its women for that version of it. Female as its sequal is more so, i tend to, i care for, and this because of how its me me me selfish and that is removed from men till dirnks or facial hair ever, or earnign things like fnalnel or truckers and scotish guys nad kilts and ber backs bascialy, and the udpate to men is girls, for only male, and the gender netural simply means women are allowed to role play it young, and tomboys ar ete udpate from that not this time period which again women can fit in and role play only in older time periods. the difffernce for men that are girls would be. i want to copy, i want to be, and im gona hide and be evil for this but cute and senstive but in a male only fuck ifuck fuk i mean im so a guy for it, i mean im totally not a girl the voice style i dont have a fagot voice. im gona pumble you fuckwad. and that is the gender differnece. now its more netuer cus its pretty to be mine for females. and women is its selfishly the fun of sex. and men would be im soothed by being an stupid of this group.ad girls which is male only is. im proving it becuase its fun. in a role reversaal that would also sifpehn cutlures status for age weird. as women and men feel adult. and girls and females feel like they are the same and go to gotehr but thats old people and dsyphorai on teh youth only.

so im just making female groups that relate to tarnstiion that are easier if you did. even if you lie outside the gorup which is female only as a want. its never women as a want. you settle down that group older. even to teh point of chest sag. its importent they have that. its importnet you cant lie about wanting a flat chest for girls or men, but you acn for females and not women. its importent to know of that hardship on a scipt forcing acting standards but not its update from awp tenacity. and its improtnet that it was by me as bojakc horsemnt then 16 year old where my dad was my painting on some werid shitty cartoon i havent seen teh ending to weridly cus of goop fake outs. and in general that is everything that you need to know about it.

so yeah. i guess. we will make female only groups aimed at women and females who transitoned but the second you count for that group from passing to body, you stop saying trans. instnatly. it is no longer about the bedsheets and it was half way before. ebing that selfish level of sex weirdly for transtion stories in our time period. i hope we udpate form that. but so far were the start ofa new time period called new year neverland, and before us was galitay, couting for all of bce. which to newyearnevelrand is nebraksa. as a setting. the hsitory of that shit is importent. so i guess we wil lmake your gourp. it has to mirror boys form what you stole for the adult thing your now excited for for girls, cus many of you that will be in the group which women and females dont question but men and girls do, is kind of, they came from a group stolen from. so you ahve to share how you steal it. which i call gossip.

its bringin up stuff only you know about adn truthuflly and honestly being kind and taping your convesrations sharing it, and doing it with permsion of those who also do it. (transgender and girls)

women do it by being trite and silly and wanting it and wanting it and loving how girly this feeling it, to steal it becuase of a plant thing i have had as a rape that didnt hit me, and is not why im in only gruops its because i can withstand the fact girls will try it on me or your being to much of a girl to reason that out or a cruel evil neckbeaerd, which is half a women intended male group, so please clam your tits and shut down, its a thing where your like, talking needelsly crule, or trite or selfish to bitcha nd moan (Women)

its a thing where you kinda bring it up alot, and spread lies and rumors cus its fun to earn that shit, its easy to earn that shit, and its a way to earn that shit, its fine to earn that shit, and its simple to talk that shit to earn that shit, but its fun to earn it, becasue it is kind of selfish but it proves your shit :) i mean thats how its aumsed from my perspective yeah. (Men and Females)

and gossip is how all of that is arnged, and done based on gender segregation where you can just choose a girl route it starts to hurt as the gossi pin an untural way for women that means a girl was there to defend you and you harmed him to his face. as he him is secrelty all girls even young women they would jsut ocndition ti weird in a way only women can do.

then how are trasnomwen not that. they are crule men loving the lie who shoudnt repsetn it, or really women ready to drop it for a girl group when ready, secrelty cus of a penis thing i dont get, and honestly dont care about but im also a hermdite without a sack, so i mean its your guess as mine, and in general, its beacuse of alcking bra thing i dont get, so its supseod to asume women, and eventually usualyl half way to fully becomes female, actually, but the lies of women and teh point of women and how hot we are as emo men for some rason as jsut altenrive and not fanboy my type of guy, missing the point fo like all emos ever.

and so yeah. emo is a middle ground of lying about women and female half way on men, as to why its the feitsh group for transomwne to be, no bein ga owmen is not their fetihs, unless you ahve stolen light and dark accents as easy or only cus of. becuase it erases jadebloosd as a tpye of grene. it does erase the banda group and the werid mystical group you have to know that. i am the only male jadeblood ponita and fuciablod and the groups unviersally agreed this shit in newspapers and stuff, cus iw as really raised a women and it is a lie for most people. i was raised in a cult. for this and gene spliced for a cult leader to ahve a kid. i am stupid and indeitfy as an emotion as zorro. i kidnaped a bitch to save her life for sinceotlogy once in wheres my cubix on youtube. i am just stupid and love shit. and it ended fine and i stupidly saved her life. its just kind of. i made emo up. because its the lies of my upbringn which is why im the officail on emo haircuts. you dont need the mop or it straight.y ou do for adams classical, and thats teh example of its not a phas emom which is secerly liked by al lof us and the longer you are in it, the more likley you are to keep taht as a thing even when an adult, you dont have to quit being emo, you just agree to meet me as the maker of it, and agree that youll have a problem with age to combat women as secrelty male only groups till fetihs or weight, for real, its alowed to be feamle and eguina cooney as both genders in emo, its just kind of a weight thing from thinspo to fat bdoy postivity, or its like a fetish and i want more peopl ein emo and were stealing some of this back grrrrrr im a character on tv shows rarw ex dee.

and anyways so yeah. so its male emo to match the women groups that will acomadoate it and we lie and say gender as the version ceoncepts. and tis women only groups or settles to keep it or kinda keep ti, which is just unsual in our ions but tumblr isa time traveling website as ianana and people presume me a women cus im emo. and in general i think its cus im bldoen weird. anyways.

and anyways im from sumeria. and its at ime traveleing website and im ending my time travel trip soon sticks me leggy up for the moon.

i guess thats everything. um. in the middle of the adam walsh adbuction rn hmm lets see before the qudithc expansion pack to hogwarts champsions which i amde as hary......

rigth sot thats everything! we will make female only groups matched to broad of a steal to emo, and then nuter it for male and girls aimed at, and then beard and stupidly macho by kngihtso f the ound table mosnter trucks sniffs yugioh and emotional breakdowns marshemlows, and like cool flanel cus emo stuffs, emos, and bunnys, and like nice rabits, and stupidly like pyhchis sometimes, and nice summer beaches, cus im aiging cool men, and like swims and stuff as male. and tahs men and im just often to young for that as clark kent. girls is asumed my age but this is incorect its my age alone if girls can be raised it.

anyways thats everythign take care -roy harper. or adam snowflake the emoji system. ;P your favorite teeange emo fagot. he him.

we will jstu make conecepts for your group taht role play this. it jsut not really transgnder and some of the mean ones ar ea cruelty thing were allowing they have to own it, and its on expressions, and if we fail its female only group i am let in because im a male fuscia, stupdily as the signelss as all groups even gulies as a pretty in taht peavilion in korea cus of aenxic,a nad you dont know what that means but i am just very very stupid as adam snowflake.

im now off t.

-the surfegete movement heade dby me adam snowflake :p rarw