#i don't rlly give my opinions on silly fandom things like this very much

[sylphwing]

if u couldn't already tell from my half-asleep ramblings on a silly dungeon meshi ship then yes i did just wake up in the middle of the night after falling asleep on the sofa again . smile :)

[ilikekidsshows]

About you being harassed by Marinette fans. I don't know if me doing this is weird, but you being open bout that makes me want to open up more too. I've send you 4 anons by now (u probably could already tell they were from one person) because I don't have a miraculous Blog anymore since the hiatus before Destruction because Marinette fans found one of my posts criticizing Marinette's treatment of Cat Noir and her leadership and they went after me for i think almost an entire week. I ended up deleting my blog in panic and fear of it getting worse the more traffic it got amongst Mari stans.

I followed the show and Fandom til now from afar to see if any of my Marinette problems were getting the fixes everyone screamed about season 5 would deliver but I can't say that happened. I wholeheartedly agree that with alot of other people that it only got worse with the doubling down and her gettin less heroic underneath the surface.

So I'm still here and upset that I was bullied out of this fandom for things I was apparently right about to degrees I didn't even knew back then how right I'd end up being....

I found a couple of blogs to follow that share my opinions and you guys have been interwoven alot now so I thought sending anons to dip my toe back into being part of the discourse is a good idea. I hope I didn't cause any Mari stans getting angry at you for it, I've been worried bout that ngl.

I would like to ask bout one of the topics Marinette fans cyberbullied me for but I still think I'm right for questioning:

How much value does Marinette see in being friends with her love interests?

Oc im not doubting that she sees at least some worth in it, but it feels very shallow. Fandom is working the lion's share to take what little canon gives and run with it til they think their fanon is real.

Marinette values friendship, sure, but Zoe is the only love interest of hers for whom that feels right to say

Marinette in Canon has said many times that for her being friends with the one she loves is the worst thing she could possibly imagine. E. g. Psycomedian. And she was rewarded with Adrien being her devoted and desperate prince for her doing probably the most friendship related thing she did in all season 4. She had a basic little convo with him about understanding to have problems and that's where it ended. Where did Marinette ever even try to be rlly Adrien's friend? She said 500x that she's finally gonna put her romance feelings aside for a bit to focus on her job (which I hoped would mean she'd work on her weaknesses in the platonic Ladynoir team dynamic too... Silly me... )

But that never goes anywhere? Weren't Adrien and Kagami the ones literally having been created out of the feeling love or to love someone in particular and even THEY could overwrite their senti programming better than Marinette ever could get over her normal ass feelings for a week? Adrien and Kagami value the friendship with the one they love deeply, is that the difference? That Marinette can't ever move one from loving someone because friendship feels like an awful downgrade and torture to her so she stays the same? What does that say bout her?

Or that Luka and Cat Noir never caused her stalker paranoia to break out that Derision claims she does to protect herself. Why does it only apply to Adrien? And not even Cat Noir, too? In my other anons I brought up how awful I think it is that Marinette seemingly has no interest in leaning anything rlly about the boy underneath Cat Noir's mask, now she barely acts like she remembers that he's real and that they'll one day reveal where he'll then find out how many times she deliberately deceived him with her civilian identity in very hurtful ways.

How does that correspond to her being in love and more important for my question, what does that level of refusal to treat someone like a real person say about her willingness to be Cat's friend? Cause I can't see friendship in Ladynoir anymore. Marinette was the one who killed that in season 4 and then season 5 didn't improve her in much. Friends don't treat each other the way Marinette so easily uses, hurts ignores, silences and deceives Cat Noir without batting an eye.

The only effort she really made was before Kwamis choice. When she thought he was still in love with her and expected that s4 magically caused no damage to his feelings for her. she seemingly thought she could just allow him to dedicate himself to her for an overall easy way to sweep everything under the rug and make him "happy" again without her ever having to really try and do better herself because that was the comfort she was seeking at that time (shoutout to Familyagrestefanblog and erisluna35. I've been paraphrasing them alot and wanted mention that too. Didn't get to write out my own opinion in a while and I agree with them x})

This refusal to face her hurtful actions of s4 quickly developed into her craving for him to give her his easy love and not wanting to take anything less than precisely the endless devotion she wanted from him now. No matter what the price. No matter how much it put him too in danger (what even meant Cat Blanc?), and yet, still no interest in him as a person.

Once she had to take the no, she left and then she never again made a genuine effort in Ladynoir. Any effort to better herself was romance related. Determination may have been the episode where she rlly noticed her changed feelings for him, but she did try earlier than that. But it fully stopped with his no as did her changed feelings vanish as quickly as they showed up. So what does that say about her and how she views their "friendship"?

Season 4 has her already show that she doesn't want Ladynoir to be an actual friendship since she treats him barely better than a magical pet she rarely ever thinks about, which caught her off guard over and over that she isn't being the kindest and adoring person of all time to him. She treats him so much worse than her actual friends and in s5 she isn't trying to build a real connection beyond wanting him to shower her in his devotion and love.

What season 5 shows bout Marinette's view of the Ladynoir friendship is in my most generous reading her not getting to hide behind any romantic feelings from either side that she doesn't know how to be his friend, after she had to learn in season 4 that she was a really really bad one. But even with that generous reading, it would still mean that Marinette then went on prioritizing not having to feel any further discomfort or having to owe up for her actual mistakes in their bond over her finally being the friend she SHOULD think Cat Noir deserves. A friend he desperately needed but never got cause she called it a day with her personal needs being met my having her best friend Alya with her.

Friends don't do that. Marinette denied him any genuine friendship he obviously truly needed as Cat Noir because she personally didn't need it from him anymore cause of Alya. And he rejected her desire to now be adored by him so there was no purpose left anymore for him to fulfill in her life besides the easy partner she made clear cant ask shit from her.

That is so unbelievably selfish... How on earth is that supposed to be FRIENDSHIP?

Srry, for this being long. Last point.

Luka of course needs to be mentioned too. Sure, the show says they are friends. But are they really? Their friendship is built on him being her platonic therapist back-up boyfriend who doesn't ask shit of her either. This is still the same pattern as with Catrien. Luka does all the emotional labor and Marinette just takes and takes and that's what makes her so comfortable around him but she isn't interested in him either beyond what she sees day to day in front of her.

That doesn't count as friendship in my book. For Adrigami you can still feel their friendship after their breakup. But Lukanette is Luka being a platonic therapist boyfriend and Marinette being just as disinterested in him as with Cat Noir while being just as comfortable getting showered in emotional labor that she's unwilling to work on giving back the way she should.

How is that friendship? What value has friendship for Marinette once any romantic feelings are involved from either side and it isn't Zoé (feels like a homophobic backhanded compliment lmao)

That was very long, I apologize. But thanks to writing in anon I started becoming more comfortable with the idea of joining the Fandom discourse again. I've got alot I wanna say after all that time in silence but I'm not sure yet if I should put myself out there again with a blog. With how season 5 ended Marinette stans are gonna be vicious beasts to any criticism they come across and I don't want that to happen again :(

---

I hope this isn't a case of speak of the devil and he shall appear but lately things have been really quiet on the Marinette stan front. The worst I’ve gotten was this really unhinged one, but they were so unpleasant they didn't have any friends so the harassment was very one-note and stopped pretty quickly since they had to run it alone. It could be that now that season 5 confirmed that season 4 wasn't an outlier, that the show’s writing has gotten incredibly sloppy and nasty, the critical side of the fandom has become unified and we add to each other’s posts and kind of back each other up. It's harder for Marinette stans to target us one by one, and their preferred tactic is dogpiling a single blog. A lot of the Marinette stans protesting my posts now shut up right quick when they see more people agreeing with me adding to the reblog chain.

As for the question, I agree with your assessment. It really does appear that Marinette hates the idea of being friends with a love interest. She whined about Adrien seeing her as just a friend all the way back in Riposte. Adrien sung her praises to Kagami, while she spied on them, and she had the gall to whine that the boy she “loves” thinks so highly of her because it wasn't the kind of thinking she wanted.

There was this one thing I said in a previous post that I think is accurate: Marinette part-times being Cat Noir's friend. Even the part of time she acts as his friend, she ignores his feelings, insults him, pushes him away, refuses to give him emotional support in any way and lies to him about anything she possibly can. She only approaches him as Marinette when she wants to complain about Adrien not coming to the date he didn't know was a date, when she thinks she can score a date with him or so that she can practice confessing to Adrien on him. Marinette's “friendship” with Cat Noir is all take with no give when she isn't outright ignoring his existence.

She also ignores boys who have feelings for her in her civilian life. Nathaniel is very suspicious of her in Reverser, having to be convinced that she wasn't planning to humiliate him, implying he isn't part of her friend group since he doesn't know her well enough to know she only humiliates people when they're in her way of getting at Adrien. (Alix makes it sound like she wouldn't do that period, but we know the truth by now.) She also refused to come to Juleka and Luka's shared birthday party if Luka was present after they broke up. I bet if you tried to tell Marinette, or her writers, that your romantic partner should also be your best friend to make a healthy relationship, they just wouldn't compute. 

I don't want to say Marinette doesn't hold friendship in high regard period, because the amount of exceptions she makes for Alya shows that she at least values Alya’s friendship. I think she just doesn't value friendship with boys. I feel like Marinette is the kind of person who doesn't think boys and girls can really be friends, which would explain why she thinks Adrien considering her a friend is worse than anything else. If boys can't really be friends with girls, Adrien using the word “friends” means they aren't even that.

Consider this: how often does Marinette hang out with her guy classmates when it isn't 1) a whole-class outing or 2) more likely that Marinette just wanted to hang out with his girlfriend? Like, in Animan, Marinette had no idea Nino had a crush on her, but she still acted like an outing with him at the zoo was the worst thing ever. I get that she was disappointed Adrien wasn't there, but Nino is one of Marinette’s oldest classmates, yet she doesn't want to spend time with him, unless she's planning to use him to get closer to Adrien, since he's Adrien’s best friend.

Of course, she doesn't really value the time with her other friends for its own sake outside of Alya either. It seems like the only times they hang out together is to plot or participate in her get Adrien quick schemes. The only times the girls do something not Marinette related is when Marinette hasn't called them together, like when they were going to the pool in Gorizilla, something Marinette completely forgot until Alya called her. Marinette has poor memory but, despite her knowing she has poor memory, she apparently gave herself no reminder to hang out with her friends. You bet I write down every occasion I’ve agreed to see my friends specifically because I have bad memory as well.

It seems like, unless you're Alya, Marinette only cares about you for how able and willing you are to help her catch Adrien's attention. I keep saying Marinette treats her Adrien romancing problems as the most important thing going on at any given moment, and it's true for all areas of her life. Maybe that's the reason we didn't see Socqueline for four seasons despite her supposedly being such an important friend to Marinette, and why she never joined the friend group proper; Socqueline couldn't help her get with Adrien so she wasn't worth Marinette’s time.

This is a yet another thing where Miraculous is actually pretty sexist; girls and boys can't ever just be friends and girls care more about getting guys than they do about their friends. Another thing of course is this idea that boys just don't have as in-depth feelings as girls or should bury their feelings and never ask for emotional support, which is why all of Marinette's love interests are her emotional support dispensers whose opinions on anything don’t matter when their job is to simply mindlessly worship Marinette while their feelings are devalued by the narrative every time they dare to try to ask Marinette for some support back. Luka gets Akumatized which convinces him to break up with Marinette when he had emotional needs she wasn't willing to fulfill. Meanwhile Adrien goes through the travesty that is Kuro Neko

“Power of love always so strong” but only when it's Marinette's toxic idea of love and when it isn't platonic love. Unless you're Alya, I guess.

[hazbincalifornia]

(I’m pretty sure the way I type is recognizable but I need to like pretend at anonymity bc I feel. Remarkably silly about this)

I wanted to like idk rant to someone in the HB fandom who isn’t balls deep in the “anti proship” sphere bc like, I’ve been struggling w guilt over enjoying a certain ship that everyone hates and considers problematic (I think Loona and Octavia is rlly cute!) and I’d like to make content for it but I also rlly fear being seen as like a pedophile. Do u ever worry abt that kind of thing? And is there anyway ur able to get over it if u do? I don’t like getting into anti/anti anti discourse bc I feel like it’s a very reductive way to view and interpret media but I still have a crazy amount of worry/guilt

First off, it is still ridiculous to me that this is even a problem in this fandom. This is an adult show about characters in Hell, and the main characters are, respectively, assassins and the eclectic cast of the Hotel which includes a cannibal serial killer. (I am eternally both amused and completely baffled that like half the awful puritanical takes I see are from Val icons. Buddy. Pal. The fucked up fiction is coming from inside the house.) I saw waaaaay more fucked up shit on Zim nsfw twitter than I see on Hellaverse twitter and that show was Y7. Up your game, guys.

Personally, I don't really see Loona and Via as siblings/sisters as much as I think a lot of others do, more just friends (and honestly I think canon moved much too quickly to give them such a heartfelt scene together, they hadn't even met officially before that point?) so it's really only the age thing and even then, the plot of HB has seemed to imply that a fair amount of time has passed since the series started, probably around a year- so Via would be 18 or older by the time anything actually started anyway, especially if they became friends first. Setting aside the 'justification' though... they're not real. They're cute together, I agree, and I think you should be perfectly fine enjoying them just in the lens of 'they're similar, I like how they'd interact, and I think they're cute together'!

I was pretty much forged in my opinions about this from Invader Zim stuff, where people insisted that liking two characters that I'd liked together since I was thirteen made you a pedophile. Obviously, I could tell that wasn't true, because it had never been the case in all those years up to people starting to be bitchy about it in 2019. (Before that, it was that it was bad because it was enemies to lovers and, more importantly, gay. Great hater throne to inherit, guys!)

Unfortunately... as stupid as it is, this fandom is way more puritanical than it should be, so it wouldn't be wrong to engage through anonymity to protect yourself. Find the people in the tag who are using 'proship/proship interact' or something along those lines (I've seen a few, although some tend to lean more on hard/dead dove content), post on ao3 into the anonymous collection which removes your name, make a tumblr sideblog that doesn't connect to your main, find fellow shippers and interact with them specifically. Do whatever you need to do to keep yourself safe from people who can't understand that thinking something is cute or interesting to explore in fiction is automatically bad just because they don't like it. The more stuff that's put out there about the ship, the more likely you are to find kindred spirits, that's honestly part of how I gathered my mpreg weirdos to me in both this fandom and the last.

I'm pretty sure that the callout I got for Sunny was why several mutuals who were a friend group unfollowed (and likely muted) me on twitter. Unfortunately, it left me worrying that the other shoe was going to drop any day for about a week because it got just enough notes to make me worry but not enough to get to anyone with any real reach to spread and get it 'over with'.

At this point, I've sort of reached a state of 'fuck it', because if it happens, it happens. I know that I'm fine, and the people I genuinely care about know that too. I know that what I'm making is entirely separate from my morals as a person, if not from how dumb the IZ stuff was than from the fact that I was an English major. Literature is full of stuff that authors don't make as a 1:1 with their real-life morals! And the one you're thinking about isn't 'bad' comparatively at all.

I think the fandom is starting to see that being a dick about fictional content is bad through the backlash to Poison and 'hey, maybe telling somebody that they need to detail their trauma to the public to make fiction is bad?', but it seems to mostly be centered on dub/noncon, so I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath.

At the end of the day though, remember this: You, as a person, are completely fine, no matter what others might think. Octavia and Loona would probably be seen as a totally normal ship like ten years ago (except for people who'd be dicks about them being gay) and there is no judgement to be made on your character in any reasonable way for thinking they're a good ship. You're not a pedophile for thinking a fictional owl and hellhound look cute together, any more than I was for smacking together two Nicktoon characters, and frankly the IZ argument held slightly more water than 'the almost-18-year-old and the 22-year-old' because Zim's age was so ambigious. Try explaining this 'people think the young adult animals holding hands are bad' to any adult who isn't sucked into fandom discourse and they'd probably be baffled that it's a problem.

I know that the guilty feelings aren't always rational and it took a bit of time for me to unwind how I felt about creating certain stuff too, but try to remember that above all else- exploring things in fiction has been a thing people have done for a very, very long time. What matters is your actions towards other real people, not what you do with fictional dolls.

If nothing else, if you want you can always send me a dm and chat that way, I'd be happy to talk.

[likesaly]

!!24 25 14 12 5 7 For Sagara, Yukinaga, Sataka and uhhhhh Eruno

Sagara

5 - I've already said the My Melody Anime OP so I'll give a different song for her, bc I've been thinking abt Winx Club again recently probably just any of the transformation songs, Sagara would love them fr

7 - I love how everyone draws her as cringefail as possible, her silliness cannot be contained /pos

12 - Sagara has a local weird girl status but it's not in a derogatory way it's a positive way because she's a good worker at Little Berry. She throws freebie sweets in her customers' orders.

14 - Yume Kawaii!!

24 - Asriel from Undertale (like in a way before he died and stuff like in 201X way)

25 - I thought she was silly, she was one of my favorites upon first playing the game

Yukinaga

5 - E.T by Katy Perry!! 4 Obvious reasons

7 - I'd say the same thing as above for Sagara bc they're vv similar

12 - He probably has a space themed bed room and I want to think has a rocketship shaped bed

14 - Typical teen 80s boy fashion

24 - Adam from Roblox Flicker (okay hi to my flicker moots if you're reading this but Yeah I know the lore has been removed/isn't canon anymore but I mean this in a reverse way for Yukinaga bc if I remember correctly Adam was an alien that pretended to be human and such so like ygs see my vision??)

25 - I never had strong opinions abt him but I did (and still do) like him!

Sataka

5 - For a second one (bc I added going down from the last ask game) I'd say Be quiet and Drive (specifically the acoustic version) by Deftones, not sure why but I just think Sataka on that one

7 - N/A (sorry man the majority of the talk for 1beat is literally it's main cast you can't even rlly find content for anyone else /lh)

12 - Sataka definitely took a shower after going into the public footbath, I'm sorry I'm not letting him live that one down /lh

14 - Ouji or Military Boystyle(?)/Lolita (I'm not sure what the masc name for the second one is)

24 - N/A - I don't think see anyone from fandoms I'm into bc I thought Abt this for a good while now

25 - I didn't have any at first but at the end of first playing File 02, I was like this man really went "Fuck you I am drunk and dying, you will not get the satisfaction of my death looking like an accident and have me die in vain" /POS

Eruno

5 - I read this and my brain instantly went Alone by Marshmallow (I have not listened to this song since second or third grade in my gacha phase I don't know why I thought that but take it ig /lh)

7 - I like how she's always drawn w Potete and Aira like her relationship w them is so important,,

12 - Upon being body switched (the og dog potete), Izuchi gave her candy and Izuchi regrets that very much bc she probably got on a sugar rush reaking havoc /lh

14 - Boystyle I don't think I have to explain myself for this

24 - Cat the cat from HELLO, HELLO WOLRD! (They have the same energy, like Cat got into Kotobukis house just to get food and got chased out like Lowkey Eruno vibes)

25 - Love at first sight (/p), she's so important

[funnywormz]

(a day late but) for the fandom asks, 3 for both lister and rimmer?

OMG FUCK YES also don't worry abt being late im always up for ask games they're a lot of fun hehe

putting this one under a readmore bc i have a lot to say lol

i will do lister first and rimmer second!

003 | give me a character and i will tell you...

how i feel about this character:

OUGH. i love lister so much. he's my favourite character for sure although rimmer is a close second. he's just such a fun silly guy but with this sad side to him....... i rlly appreciate how he's shown as tough and masculine and yet he's allowed to have hobbies like knitting and cry at romantic movies and care abt his friends without it being mocked. he's not a perfect person but i adore him anyways. very relatable at times as well lol. i also have a massive crush on him i think abt kissing him at least once a day hehehehehe

any/all the people i ship romantically with this character:

definitely rimmer ofc. maybe ace as well??? kinda??? but since ace is still just another rimmer idk if that even counts lmao. basically it's just rimmer

my favourite non-romantic relationship for this character/favourite friendship for this character (im combining these questions bc they're kinda the same thing?):

ouuuuuh probably his friendship with kryten? i love how he genuinely respects kryten and how kryten is so adoring of him. kryten is kinda like a weird mum to him and it's so so funny and cute they're so silly. it makes me happy whenever they interact, esp when kryten coddles him and is sweet with him despite lister being a grown man lmao.

also it's kinda cheating to use them twice but i love lister and rimmer's friendship in a platonic way as well. they're just always hilarious whenever they're onscreen together and the way they bounce off each other is extremely fun

my unpopular opinion about this character:

idk if this is rlly unpopular but i get a little frustrated by his inconsistent characterisation in the show, esp in s8 compared to other seasons. i get that he does whatever the writers think is funniest but sometimes he does or says something and im like ":( lister wouldn't say that......." even though he is literally saying it in canon lol

also i think he needs more love in the fandom maybe. or more fics abt him getting a hug or something. this dude is depressed and lonely as hell and it makes me so sad can rimmer give him a hug PLEASE

one thing i wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon:

i wish his relationship with kochanski had gotten a proper resolution/he could move on from her and stop pursuing her romantically....... ive made longer posts abt this before but i just feel like his initial crush on her was just a shallow schoolboy kind of crush and it feels like a disservice to both of them that he's still chasing after her after getting to know her and them clearly not being romantically compatible. like in some episodes they're best friends but then the writing goes back to having lister treat her like an object rather than a person and it irritates me. i wish they could just be friends bc i adore their friendship and when lister interacts with her in a platonic way it's clear that there's such a fun dynamic there but it was utilised so rarely :(

my crossover ship:

ohhhh i don't rlly tend to do crossover ships so this was a hard one....... not rlly a ship more of a friendship but i would love to see him interact with the doctor from dr who lol. ik it's kind of a predictable choice as a crossover bc they're both british sci fi but i think depending on the iteration of the doctor they could either get along rlly well or hate each other and either way it would be very very funny.

i also think it would be fun to do a disco elysium crossover sometime. i would love to know what he'd think of harry and kim, i have a feeling he'd get along rlly well with kim but maybe that's just me

OK NOW I WILL DO RIMSY >:-)

003 | give me a character and i will tell you...

how i feel about this character:

ohhh i hate him but i love him so much. an awful person but a great character and unfortunately very relatable sometimes. i want to hug him and hold him so gently but i also want to put him in a hydraulic press. out of all of the rd characters he's probably the one i think about the most unfortunately. you know how it is

any/all the people i ship romantically with this character:

lister of course! and ig some of the au listers, like the one in the rat universe lol. but really it's just the main lister tbh. i just can't see him with anyone else

my favourite non-romantic relationship/friendship for this character:

sorry but it's lister again lol. like his friendship with lister. their dynamic is just so fun, i think my all time favourite scenes are the ones where they're together....... moonlight and sunlight etc etc etc

my unpopular opinion about this character:

it's a pretty generic opinion but i don't believe that any of his attempts at flirting with women/seeming attracted to women in canon are genuine lol. it always feels very forced and unnatural to me. that man is a deeply closeted and confused gay boy and i can't see him any other way tbh. i think he WANTS to be straight so bad but he is not. not even a little bit

one thing i wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon:

i wish his character development would stick more! like ik he has to be bitchy for the comedy and that's fine im not saying he has to suddenly be nice or whatever but it's frustrating to see him grow a little bit as a person or overcome one of his insecurities only to go back to being even worse than before in the very next episode........ he is a little more mellow in later seasons than he was in the earlier ones but not by much, and i feel like things like learning abt his real father and going off to be ace and stuff should have had a real visible impact on him instead of just. not changing anything lol

my crossover ship:

once again. not rlly a ship thing but the disco elysium crossover. i just think it would be funny. he would probably try to schmooze up to kim and harry and get in their good books bc he sees them as being in a position of authority but i think he would secretly hate them so bad and it would probably be kinda obvious lmao. i think kim would absolutely despise him

also i want to lock him in a room with spamton deltarune for a few hours and see who goes insane first