#i don't remember any of hanneman's supports

[randomnameless]

@pandp-author replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:

@themoomoorn If it's not too much asking, what is it about Petra's support with Claude that you don't like? I'm rather curious.

​If I can jump in, for me it'd be this :

Petra : Harming Trees is bad because they have spirits and it's important, the tree gives us food and shelter but it also needs us. We live in harmony, all those things.

Clout : Ah yes, you're close to the nature, unlike those stupid Fodlan people who believe everything comes from their goddess and forgot nature.

Petra : Remember when I said Billy-sensei turning green looks like the spirits I am often talking about? And how the Fodlan Goddess basically made and created those spirits? - Who am I kidding, I can't tell you this, we're in a Fodlan game, you must always have a point and Church BaD.

Clout : Of course!

Clout : I mean, imagine if the Hresvelgs could trace their lineage to Saint Seiros herself, who is said to be, in her own scriptures, a Child of the Goddess aka not a human herself or at least a divine being. I'd look like an imbecile, right?

Also fun how "uwu nobility isn't a matter of birthright, status doesn't matter uwu" when the same guy tells to Cyril :

"nobility doesn't matter we're all equals uwu except when I could use my status to compel a random to do things he doesn't want to".

But back to the Petra support :

Clout : I've heard Hanneman say the same thing to Doro.

Petra : Wow you're so strange for saying those things! And you are a noble who can climb to trees! So weird!

Clout : Are we sure Caspar can't do the same? He knows how to pummel someone to death with his fists, maybe he'd also know how to climb trees or something, given how he didn't receive any education befitting a heir of a house, since his brother is the heir and he is naught but a spare. But hey, I'll totally call you strange because you are a princess of Brigid, nevermind the link I cannot tell you about between you being the princess of a foreign land and me.

Petra : But you know how to climb trees and take care of your equipment ! I'm so impressed, I've never seen any noble take care of his own stuff before. What is that? Ferdie oils his own weapons and armor? Who is that Ferdie you're talking about?

---

Granted, given how Petra was trashtalked by Hubert (or trash thought) when he first met her and was around the most, uh, decadent part of Adrestian Nobility, I can't fault her for thinking Claude climbing to trees and tending to his own bow is extraordinary - but I suppose if she ever went to see any BL what she finds "abornmal in Fodlan and totes only Adrestia because that's the only place she visited" wouldn't be so... abnormal.

[yanderefairyangel]

In Fodlan, are the crest and nobility power structures one and the same? It doesn’t really seem like one could exist without the other but you have characters like Hapi who just aren’t nobility despite having a crest. So it seems that crests make you a noble sometimes but it’s still bad news if you’re from a noble family and are crestless.

Fodlan lore is quite perplexing,

Well here is what I remember, but from my memories those are actually separated structure ?

The 10 Elites all had descendant from which come the nobility however because Fodlan is Fodlan we learn that not all nobles have a crest because Crest can skip a generation.

For example, in the Gautier house, Matthias posseses a Crest however Miklan doesn't, it's Sylvain who has the Crest. Same thing, Ingrid have a Crest but her brothers doesn't.

Normally being crestless often result in the child in question to not become the heir, that was the case for Miklan. However, we do learn of nobles that don't have a Crest without knowing more about their mansion, for example Hanneman's brother in law who married Hanneman's crestless's sister and still hoped that they could have a Crest baby since Crest can skip generations.

Likewise, House Bartel's leader, Baron Bartel did not have a Crest and had to marry Mercie's mother to be able to have Crest babies to pass on the Crest of Lamine

We also learn of nobles so desperate to have a child with a Crest because they don't have one to pass down to their heir that they had marriage with lower nobles or adopted Crested commoners.

So logically this would mean that nobility is independent from Crest. I say logically because the Lady in Red would disagree with me but again, there is 3 story instances that contradict her : Hubert, Miklan and Caspar.

Hubert is still a noble despite not having a Crest. Now granted, he killed his father and then inherited the title because of what his father did to Eddie but point still stand. In Miklan's case, the problem is that we are told that as the first heir, normally he should have inherited the title but he didn't because Sylvain have a Crest which means that should Sylvain not have a Crest, Miklan would have in normal times inherited according to the rule of first born. Likewise, in her support with Caspar Eddie gives him a speech about why people should be judge for their capacity... thing is Caspar is the second son of his household so the reason why he didn't became heir isn't because of Crest but because he is the second son since in a normal noble system he would not inherit anyway and Miklan's plotline implies that the noble system is in reality separated from the Crest system so this means that Caspar's only way to inherit would have been to have a Crest since as the second son he wouldn't.

Now this gets even more convoluted because even if none of them have Crest they can still give birth to a Crested heir... meaning that this system makes hardly any sense since even if a child is Crestless they can still give birth to someone who has a crest. In fact, my memory serves me right but each time we bring the parents of the student, only 1 parents is said to have a Crest, the other parent who is also usually a noble is not said to have one, in fact I think the only case of 2 crested parent's is... Byleth.... yeah.

Now that is from what I recall, I do think that 3H was trying to establish that the nobility is based on the Crest system but that was rather sloppylily done

[alienducky]

1, 8, 15?

Ask game questions

1) Fave house

My beloved Rainbow Rangers. They were my first playthrough, and always will be first in my heart. I love their dynamics, mainly how dysfunctional they are. My chaos babies

8) Fave house leader

Claude. Sneaky man who pretends he doesn't have a soft gooey centre, always trying to minimise the fallout and see all the sides, and just wants everyone to be friends. Even in Hopes, kinda. He got his head stuck up his ass for a while there, but eh. No one's perfect

15) Fave support convo

Errrrrrrrrrr. Besides Coco-Claude, but that's in Hopes. Also Annette-Lorenz in Hopes, because any support where Lorenz gets called out is gold

In Houses... It's been a while so I don't really remember all of them, and I still haven't done post skip Blue so I'm missing the few that show up there, but I don't think I have a particular fave? I remember snippets from some of them that I love if that counts?

Like Ignatz and Petra with the glasses. Caspar kidnapping Bernie for the sunset. Hilda tricking Ferdie into making tea. Raph teach Flayn to roar. Sylvain realising Leonie's a girl and breaking. Actually all of Sylvain's up to B only supports (I'm mad he didn't get Petra Coco and Hapi. So mad). Coco-Yuri and the boots. Lysithea and Cyril with the reading. Hanneman tricking Seteth into being a test subject. Hilda tricking Caspar into rearranging her room. Hilda taking a nap with Annette.

Just. All of them?

[loregoddess]

9 / 10 / 17 / 20 for the FE ask game

09. favorite faculty member? Seteth, but I have to say Hanneman's grown on me a lot over the years. I wouldn't count Cyril as part of the "faculty" per se, but in this house we love and respect Cyril too.

10. favorite support conversation? Hmm, I don't think any one stood out to me in particular, but I remember being surprised by how many of Bernadetta's supports I enjoyed (that being...all of them). Ashe and Dedue's support, obviously bc that's my favorite ship from the game, are amongst my favorites as well.

17. character you relate to? For as much as I love the cast, I didn't really find any of the characters that relatable on a personal level, which is fine honestly. I definitely worked myself to burnout when in college though, so I guess I find Annette and Lysithea to be a bit relatable in that regard, although their motives for overworking themselves are different than mine.

20. unpopular opinion? I guess I remember hearing a lot of gossip about how hard the Cindered Shadows DLC side story's final boss was even on Normal difficulty, and yet I completed that battle in, I think, three or four turns? RIP to everyone not using their archers and mages right, but that wasn't me.

Oh, speaking of! I legit don't think there's a single bad unit in the game. I've seen a lot of posts talking about how like, Ignatz isn't that good and yet he was getting a crit almost every attack bc I ran him through thief-assassin before landing him in mortal savant. Ashe is another character I've seen people say isn't that good to use, and yet he was my recurring MVP my AM run as a bow knight from the usual archer-sniper line, and was basically a less powerful Cyril as a bow-using wyvern lord in my CF run (and bow-using wyvern lord Cyril was a less powerful Claude for me, so in other words, Ashe and Cyril were both very lethal units for me). A lot of it comes down to what class you have a character in and which line you're training them from before landing in a master class, bc despite my "archers and mages will always be the most powerful classes" bias, I honestly didn't have any issues with the characters underperforming in any of my runs.

[recurringwriter]

Hanneman teaches the BL by default, if Byleth doesn't chose them. Give me Dad!Hanneman headcanons (especially Annette).

so you're saying that Hanneman is an honorary Kingdom Dad, i'm sure people will find that interesting!

so Hanneman, or Daddeman (let's not), well, we know he's actually really thoughtful based on how he talks to Byleth after That Sad Chapter. so probably he sees all the Lions in his class are totally struggling and grits his teeth and says 'i can't believe i'm a parent at my age'

okay here we go i'm just going to make up a bunch of stuff while drinking more coffee than i should:

Annette clearly wants approval. she wants to be good at everything, she wants to be helpful, she wants to find her dad and be good enough that he decides to come back, which backfires because gilbert is Punishing Himself so the better Annette is the less he feels he deserves to be in her life. anyway. I can't remember Hanneman and Annette's supports but he definitely takes her under his wing and tells her that what she is doing is not only Enough, but Plenty, and that she needs to take care of herself. gives her advice on reason and tells her that her methods and ideas are good and that he's impressed. asks her about her friendships because she's always so busy?? does she not get along with the rest of the class? takes an interest when she tells him about reading with Ashe and gardening with Felix and baking with Mercedes. when she shares some of those snacks he realizes that he has a daughter now. when he goes out of his way to find a book she's interested in she realizes that she has a father. oh my god what if she accidentally calls him father one time when she's overtired from studying for an exam and she has this moment of pure terror but hanneman doesn't make it into anything he just smiles and tells her to get some rest. when she's left, he sort of leans into his fist and is so weirdly happy and embarrassed at the same time. never brings it up and neither does annette.

when he asks mercedes about her crest (as he would) he hears some of her story and is extremely kind and sympathetic to her. says that she deserved better and still does, and that she should take a break from looking after her classmates to care for herself. she's a little surprised and does not do that

speaking of rest though i think that hanneman would enforce breaks during class when he sees any of the students are looking a little vague and zoned-out. none of the lions are sleeping well. if someone needs a nap he calls it 'independent reading time' and lets them sleep for like twenty minutes before resuming the lecture. brings food to class because are they eating? they're all so pale. everyone appreciates snack time even though they feel like kids.

oh and also he rolls his eyes about sylvain's antics and when he finds out why, he tries to make sure not to bother asking about sylvain's crest, and instead tries to prove that he has merits that aren't because of his crest. assigns him to help tutor/do assignments with the other students because he recognizes sylvain's charisma and ability to figure out where the others are stuck

ingrid and mercedes both would have had really interesting supports with hanneman. i don't care enough about the crest system to write them but i'm sure they'd be fascinating

hanneman would also be very curious about Duscur culture and try hard to connect with dedue and watch him open up. would point out how many of the other students like him and want to be his friend. would offer his help in trying to make sure dimitri takes care of himself. not sure how to proceed sometimes but always willing to listen.

i'm not forgetting ashe i just don't think that there's much to add. we all want to adopt or be an uncle to ashe.

felix is tricky because i'm you know. i do like rodrigue so we can't have hanneman go and just steal felix from under his nose. but i'm sure at parent-teacher interview night (or that chapter where rodrigue shows up at the monastery) he remarks that felix doesn't get along well with the other students and rodrigue says 'yes and?' and hanneman is taken aback and hears the story about the 'horrible thing' rodrigue said and blah blah 'i don't understand him' and hanneman is like 'well have you tried?' and rodrigue is like '???' hanneman: 'if you don't understand something right away you can learn to understand it that's called science' and rodrigue says 'interesting! i will make a note of that' and hanneman realizes that felix's entire family is also insane. gives felix space and respect. goes to the training ground and will be like 'are ya winning, felix?' and felix will scoff and say 'obviously' and that's their c-support.

[electricprincess96]

This person didn't play the same game as us. The game these people played doesn't exist.

The Western Church were caught red handed, the trial would have been unnecessary for us to see, it might have happened but Byleth wasn't present or you know this isn't Phoenix Wright we don't need to see it. Rhea DID NOT experiment on anyone, she CREATED Sitri and all her other attempts and Sitri BEGGED her to give Byleth the Crest Stone because she wanted her child to live. Like bitch you people are fucking idiotic, like I know dogs who can figure this stuff out better than you all can. Also we literally have an entire support conversation about how technology has advanced since Flayn went into her coma half the shit the game claims Rhea banned exists in the game so again use your brain if you have one l. And as for the "tenants against relations" with Almyra. Dude one of the first quests you get in the game is Seteth finding out information about the Western Church and you learn The Western Church is against Rhea because they think she's too open-minded when it comes to foreigners and nonbelievers. These people do not know how to read (or listen since those lines are voiced).

Now this shit for brains dickhead that called me by name. Firstly what is it like having no brains? Honestly I want to know because you'd have to literally have air between your ears to think that Cyril is a slave at the Monastery. Where he's allowed to join a class if he so wishes (no one bats an eyelid when Byleth can add him to their class), he can eat in the dining hall the same as everyone else for free which is more than what the Goneril's gave him. Yes we see he falls asleep in the Library a lot, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a bed. If your argument is we never see it well we never see Hanneman or Seteth's or Flayn's beds so do we assume they don't have ones either? No instead we use our brains, I know pity since you don't have one, and remember that Jeritza's quarters are in a part of the monastery that's not accessable when running around so naturally there must be more rooms where all the other people including Cyril and all the Monks and Priests in the monastery must sleep.

Also the Church didn't take Cyril from Almyra and if you actually played attention you'd know that. They took him from the Goneril who he literally says treated him like a slave. The Goneril's are the ones who go around abducting Almyran children they find along the border. Rhea allowed Cyril to be brought to the monastery and out Shamir in charge of his training, it's her job to teach him things like being able to read, Rhea can't personally teach every orphan she takes in, she's one person for fuck sake.

Now we hear about the students have chores so why would it be any different for all the other people that Garreg Mach shelters. Every member of the Church that interacts with Cyril tells him to stop doing so much work. Now show me, SHOW ME actually proof that Cyril is "scared for his life" receipts or it didn't happen. He wants to work hard because he's grateful now I'm not saying it's necessarily the best way for him to show his gratitude and I'd be with Seteth in trying to get him to take a break but no one is forcing him to do it.

And all it takes to see this is being able to fucking read and actually paying attention to Cyril's supports. I stand by everything is said and Cyril would hate all of you people.

[randomnameless]

Hi, I was talking with some friends, and wanted some help double checking some 3H shenanigans and figured you'd be the best to ask. Do you know when in the game Ionius's whole wives situation got mentioned and what he did that got all the nobles to depose him? I remember something about concubines, but don't know where exactly in the game it was talked about to check and cite. Thank you very much if you're able to help!

I hope I can help then!

In Hubert and Hanneman's C support, it's more or less explained, by Hanneman that Ionius wanted to concentrate power on himself :

In your father's defense, the emperor was attempting to take power from the Seven Houses. The emperor's reform was an attempt to concentrate power in the hands of the throne.

While Hubert presents it the other way :

He conspired with the ministers to usurp power from the emperor. And Lady Edelgard...

But both he and Hanneman later agree, in their B support, that Hubert is aware he is not very objective.

The Jp version gives a bit more insight on Hanneman's explanations, that were removed from the localised version for... well, I suppose, some reasons I still can't understand?

当時の陛下は、“七貴族”と呼ばれる 大貴族や外戚の特権を徐々に廃止し…

There's a mention of the consort kin, that is absent in the localised version.

This translation translated it as :

At that time, His Majesty was gradually abolishing the privileges of the consort kin and the ones referred to as “The Seven Aristocrats” – the great noble [families]

Ionius was thus trying to centralise power on himself, remove privileges and powers of the 7 and the consort kin.

Now, unlike some other settings, Ionius having consorts isn't that developped in Fodlan, so we don't have any clues, in canon, about what those privileges are. We can only surmise things here'n'there based on rl, I guess, as long as it doesn't contradict canon.

So, what could have been those consort kin privileges?

Let's take the Arundel example.

Anselma is wooed by Ionius, bears him a daughter, but doesn't become his official/legal/legitimate wife. She becomes his consort wife.

What is she going to do? She cannot marry someone else, Papa Arundel "lost" his daughter and cannot secure a good wedding for her (as is apparently the fate of Adrestian noblewomen?) because she's already one of Ionius's consort. Hell, given how their daughter isn't the next in line for the Imperial succession, Anselma's role is very shaky -

In Fates, we have the background concubine wars, where the goal was to have their kid become the heir (iirc?) so they would have a place by the King's side, or at least not be demoted as "extras" when the kid from another mother will become, well, king.

In Fodlan, from this line, we know the "kin" of the Imperial consorts had some "privileges" - a sort of crass way to say the Emperor gives them "stuff" so they will shut up if he "wooes" a daughter, relegates her as a baby maker and doesn't marry her, thus her "market value" drops and the resulting child is only an extra?

From the Libary, it's confirmed that :

House Arundel Formerly a minor noble house of the Empire. As head of the house, when Volkhard's younger sister became betrothed to Emperor Ionius IX, Volkhard was granted the title of Lord Arundel. Having worked closely with House Aegir, House Arundel is seen as one of the chief instigators of the Insurrection of the Seven.

House Arundel became "important" when Anselma was wooed by Ionius and became his wife (consort wife though!).

So when Ionius wants to remove the consort kin privileges, aka giving some importance to the families of the women he "wooes", Arundel isn't super happy and spearheads the insurrection.

Now, why was that system created? Was it a way to prevent the Emperor from, say, having their cake and eating it, aka, seducing women, giving them kids and then throwing them (both?) away without strings attached? Or to make sure consort wife #7 will have a role somewhere, and her family will get a "compensation" for her loss?

Or worse, the "consort kin" privileges maybe also applied to the children of the consorts - they would have a lower rank compared to the children of the legitimate wife - but still be worth something?

The Adrestian Imperial family is sadly under utilised, so we don't a thing about what was the status of the consorts or their children (they just poof away in the game events, we never hear anything about Ionius's surviving consorts or his legitimate wife!) - but we know there used to be some sort of compensation (super dowry?) Ionius/the Emperor had to give to families of the women he screwed -

And from what the JP version of Hubert and Hanneman's support says, Ionius wanted to get rid of that.

[randomnameless]

The idea that Vestra wanted to protect Hubert is based purely off of Hanneman's baseless conjecture, and seven years passed between Hanneman leaving the Empire and the Insurrection. That's a long time for a man to change for the worst.

I disagree anon.

In the support, between the two, it's Hubert who refuses to consider his father as anything but a piece of filth, while Hanneman suggests he might have had other "reasons" to betray Ionius.

For sure, Papa Vestra could have changed for the worst, but Hubert refusing to acknowledge - straight out refusing to listen - another point of view on the father he murdered screams that Hubert does not want to consider that his father was not he man he thought him to be.

Hubert never replies to Hanneman's misgivings about our pal Ionius, when he says Ionius wanted to centralise power on himself, take power from the Seven Houses, and, in the jp version, remove the consort kin system (basically, if a consort had a family, that family had some privileges Ionius had to consent, else he couldn't bang that consort).

Hanneman ends with Ionius lost the power struggle, and Hubert replies that now, with Supreme Leader, it's the nobles who are going to lose the struggle.

From this exchange in their C support, we already see a breach in the "Papa Vestra was a piece of filth because he betrayed the Hresvelg", we don't know what he did, but we know the Hresvelg of that time, Ionius, attempted to pull several shitty stuff, and Papa Vestra opposed it.

In the B support, Hanneman asks him if he's going to hear him out, and when the subject is about Papa Vestra, Hubert straight out refuses to hear (but he still does because hey what's a support where one party just storms off?).

Hanneman, who was Papa Vestra's friend, calls him selfless and someone who wouldn't betray the Emperor for some power seeking scheme. Hubert disagrees, thinking he betrayed Ionius to side with Aegir for power.

Factually, Papa Vestra arrested Ionius, and caught Edel* himself.

Hanneman has this very important line, perfectly fitting with Crimson Flower :

But I fear that where your father is concerned, your eyes may see only what you wish them to see.

To which Hubert takes note.

Hanneman thus continues, saying Papa Vestra tried to protect something, something that was so important to him that he would be dishonored and ultimately killed by his own son.

Hanneman thus makes the link to his sister, someone he failed to protect.

I wouldn't call that parallel a mere coincidence, maybe Papa Vestra didn't want to protect Hubert or only Hubert, but if Hanneman makes the link to his family, imo, it's highly inferred Papa Vestra wanted to protect his family -

And we know what Ionius did to the families or people who opposed them - the Hrym family was punished so hard that the main line was completely wiped, aka, there are no heirs and no children from the Hrym family (main branch) anymore.

Back to the support, Hubert seems to acknowledge that even if his dad wanted to protect something, he also has his own "something" he wants to protect and the topic is dropped.

So I wouldn't say it's "baseless" conjecture, it is conjecture because Crimson Flower is just that kind of path, where your characters say something but you see something else (remember Arianrhod?), but imo, Papa Vestra betraying Ionius for the sake of his family has more ground than "Papa Vestra sided with Aegir because he was a power hungry fool".

It's not conclusive as that support, but imo, Papa Vestra being off-screened when Leopold'n'Valdemar are hanging around the BE in Nopes could also fit with the general "Papa Vestra challenges the narrative Hubert (but actually Nopes tried, with the Ludwig retcon) tries to push, so he is eliminated without any ado to keep the show going".

It's imo glaring that Papa Vestra is the only Noble Dad we don't see, and who is off-screened like that.

*I always mess up the timeline - Ionius is arrested during the Insurrection, okay. But is Edel sent to Faerghus after Ionius's arrest, or after? We know Arundel (the real one) also sent her to Faerghus, but Thales recovered her and sent her in the dungeons. Was she recovered when Ionius was already defanged, or she returned to Enbarr and spent time with her dad before the Insurrection?

Meaning, did Papa Vestra catch her to send her to Faerghus before the Insurrection - to protect her - and Hubert mistook everything, or Papa Vestra caught her when she returned, after the Insurrection, and thought she would be safe with her Uncle Volkhard - who sent her away for protection - unaware that Volkhard died and was now actually Thales?