#i don't know what the general fandom view of elhokar is

[blastlight]

Hi! I like Elhokar too. His death was sad and in another world if he'd had a few more minutes maybe he could have become the person he dreamed of being.

hi!! yeah the worst part is the lost potential... he might have still been ethically dubious, but he was trying, and yet he barely got started on his redemption arc.

the hints of him almost just barely becoming a radiant are just brand sand being mean to me personally

[diabolicalworldwriter]

Ok I'm going to ramble super long about 'and for my boon' and the ethics of cringe or something and I feel bad so here's a cut off

I find it fascinating that the fandom wide "that was cringe" moment is that of Kaladin (a character who's been mistreated and discriminated against his entire life, who's finally been treated a little better and is being reassured over and over again that he can trust these people, they won't hurt him this time, they're not like all the other people and systems that have hurt him) trying to do something right only for those people to directly turn on him the second he misinterprets something and tries to believe that for once, maybe the system could be fair for him ("and for my boon") and not... Idk. Dalinar saying "you are a minority, you do not get to operate on the same level as us, try to be one of the good ones so people will treat you nicer." once he's in prison. Or, if it's that the fandom needs to cringe at Kaladin specifically, how about the time he told Rlain that because he was a singer he couldn't just expect radiant spren to want to bond with him without some measure of force and had to "settle for what he could get"?

What specifically about the boon scene is so off-putting? A lot of people talk about it like Kaladin stepped out of line or beyond his station and that was his great crime. That he publicly said something so embarrassing that everyone else knew was ridiculous and really, why did he try to begin with? Didn't he know he hadn't earned anything better? Couldn't he remember he was supposed to behave like someone who is oppressed? If that is the reason the scene bothers you, please think a bit about why someone defying systems of oppression upsets you so much. Why you think someone should accept their trauma and always behave in a way that conforms to the paranoia it has caused.

I've tried to reevaluate personally and have come to determine my discomfort is not in Kaladin's action itself - he was doing the best he could with the information he had at the time, and trying to have a sense of optimism despite his mental illnesses and experiences so often screaming that he could expect nothing, and also he was tired but pumped up on adrenaline for having just done one of the coolest things in fiction. My discomfort is in the reaction I know is coming. Elhokar throwing a fit and turning on him. Dalinar falling in line and supporting that as a little act of appeasement; trading Kaladin's well being and trust to calm down the king who wants to believe he's in charge even though he never really has been. Dalinar being so angry for Kaladin daring to believe he could be an equal.

Do we consider honest and earnest mistakes to be more upsetting than gross misuses of privilege? Is the status quo being challenged more upsetting than the horrible continuation of unfairness and the punishment that come before and after?

Kaladin is expected to get over his trauma and distrust. To believe that the lighteyes he's met are different or better somehow, but even the "better ones" reinforce that distrust and feeling of unsafety. (See Shallan taking his boots and treating him with general disdain, Adolin straight up bullying him and othering him for like half a book, AND THROWING HIM WHILE WEARING SHARDPLATE JUST BECAUSE HE'S UPSET, Dalinar being like "I will treat you nicer, as long as you are perfect and compliant" and Elhokar being Elhokar.) A character with canonical PTSD is tsked at whenever he's not hyper vigilant and when he is everyone goes "he's always so on edge :( I wish he'd realize he can just trust these people."

Don't get me wrong, I love the other characters, I know their actions and views are also due to their life circumstances and they do their best to confront them when they realize they're incorrect... But they don't always realize, and even then that doesn't undo the harm. We also have to bear in mind in any book that we have greater context than the characters within. Kaladin didn't read all of Adolin and Dalinar's perspectives. It takes time for him to know and trust them, and that makes sense.

Oppression and the ways it affects different groups with levels of severity and ignorance is a theme that is impossible to separate from Stormlight and its characters. Without it... Well you'd lose the whole plot for one. It's one of the things I appreciate about it as a story. That does mean that there can be some... interesting takes from the fandom (I won't lie, I have contributed to those myself, I've had my own biases to unlearn and that I am still unlearning. I do think that interpretation is one of the most important parts of media consumption as its worth is what we take from it. idk. just wanting to think too much about this general fandom trend a little more critically for a second)

Just. Idk. Why is it always "and for my boon was cringe" and not "Adolin being both sexist and racist by saying 'well I guess it's ok if you have a shardblade, Shallan; Kaladin has one too and he's darkeyed and both of those things are kind of weird' then Shallan internally being like 'don't compare high class women to them, we're better than that :(' was uncomfortable"