#i don't even really talk about mechanics from reload specifically here but just in case haha

[crescentfool]

going to keep this vague on purpose but playing reload has reactivated brain chemicals in me that i forgot i had.

i think i'd want to make a more thought out post later, but i think my favorite thing about reload (aside from seeing minato in full HD glory) is how much it's made me think about video games as a storytelling medium- specifically with what mechanics and game design imply for characters.

there's a lot of quality of life features added to reload that help players easily enter a flow state and get immersed in the gameplay (most notable with tartarus)! which is so dope! reload has been such a nice blend of the mechanics from both FES and portable and it feels like a love letter to persona 3 fans.

there are definitely mechanics i miss from FES (minato's ability to wield multiple weapons being one of them). i can't deny that FES has some dated mechanics that don't necessarily feel fun for the player experience... but!

i think i mostly miss things from FES because i feel like so much of minato's characterization (for me) was informed by the gameplay experience and mechanics (e.g. fatigue system). obviously there's still other ways you can put together his personality (his dialogue responses), but i think game mechanics are a bit part of it, for me.

but in spite of that, i think reload is a really nice introduction to persona 3, it's so much more accessible and has a bunch of things to help make it more fun :) so far i think i'd recommend it to people :D

[crest-of-gautier]

how is it that i finished reload three months ago but it feels like a lifetime ago... ("some" thoughts about reload under the cut... spoilers obv)

reload is like a mixed bag for me. there's aspects of it that i hold near and dear to my heart (ryoji mochizuki my beloved), while some parts of reload... i'm kind of... "eh... whatever" about.

i think my feelings ultimately boils down to the fact that fes and reload are two very distinct experiences. the differences between them feels most obvious to me with the gameplay changes, and added social events (dorm activities + linked episodes).

because these two games curate a different experience, i feel awkward when i'm confronted with the question of, "what version should i play?" to me, the question kind of has the undertone of, "what is the definitive version of persona 3?"

even though reload is arguably the most convenient and accessible version of p3, i feel that when i recommend it... i internally have a bunch of asterisks that come with it. this hesitance mostly comes from my opinion that FES has more effective storytelling for the messages that P3 wants to convey.

FES's gameplay mechanics adds to minato's characterization in ways that reload doesn't. it's stuff like the tiredness system, and how it adds to the idea that death literally stole minato's chance to live life normally without complications. it's the way minato can adapt to any of the weapon types of the other party members. it's the way that the party orders/command system was designed specifically for FES and SEES really feels like co-workers for a good chunk. you don't really feel that in reload as much.

there's also some things about FES's visuals that feel better (to me). the palette of the dorms feels more somber and it enhances the atmosphere. and the half body portraits, oh, the characterization of it all that comes from body language (ryoji mochizuki you will always be famous to me). you don't quite get that when you only have a bustshot to work with.

i do realize that me expressing my grievances with missing these things from FES can be interpreted as "oh, so you don't like reload?" and i want to emphasize that this is not the case at all. i think that fes and reload are both valuable experiences, just for completely different reasons. (the same goes for portable as well, it very much has it's merits too!)

despite preferring FES' storytelling over reload's, i am hesitant to recommend it. even though the game mechanics can add to the story, they are also dated and i can see how this can turn people away. do i love how arduous the climb up tartarus feels in FES? yes. i really feel immersed in the minato-ism. but would someone else like it? no. and that's fine too.

this is where reload feels "better" than fes to me: updating it to modern gameplay standards makes it easier for players to enter a flow state. i do feel that the way they went about it did undermine some of the Vibes of the Climb™ (see my talk about the great clock on main).

theurgy is also another one of the mechanics that i'm a bit 🤔 about. i like looking at the characteristics that build the person's gauge (i especially LOVE LOVE how yukari's gauge builds), it's fun for characterization! and the visuals themselves are super appealing and fun to watch. junpei's 2nd theurgy, blaze of life, is one of my favorites because i really love how it represents his bond with chidori.

however i also feel that theurgy is... very overtuned. like, what do you mean i'm sweeping nyx avatar off her feet, i am facing death head on in the eyes and you're telling me she's a cakewalk? (this also applies to some of the other bosses.) of course you can just opt to... not use theurgy, but it feels weird for fights to be framed as "tough and unbeatable" within the narrative only to get through them with relative ease... (ludonarrative dissonance moment)

it feels really funny to write all of this out because i'm sitting here like, "you know, i don't think no one will care the way i do 😂" and that's fine, to be honest! i find it fun to think about how changes to a story can enhance or detract from the overall experience.

i do feel like i could elaborate on the story additions/removals and how some of it made me go "huh" and "whuh" but. i won't. because this post is long as is. but maybe another day. (but know that i am crying about the things they removed for aigis' storyline)

now that i'm done airing out my grievances with the gameplay, i want to talk about the things i liked about reload. even though some things had me go 🤨, i did sincerely have a fun time playing it, and i want to celebrate those things!

for one thing, the social links being voiced really added to the experience. i really, really felt myself immersed in the storylines of minato's classmates social links in ways that i didn't when i played FES. i just really loved seeing how charaters like yuko and keisuke would speak... and everyone's casting felt on point, to me!

reload is also very visually stunning. guy who doesn't play the game because they're too busy getting lost in minato's eyes. it's me. i'm guy. i really loved the animated cutscenes. it's fun seeing minato in a new coat of paint. he's so near and dear to me and seeing him in HD got me crying in the club. some things fell short (why does nyx avatar's face feel so low res...) but LIKE overall i was like, a yippee trail seeing minato interact with port island. i love seeing him walk around.

the story addition i liked the most (oh my god this is going to be such a surprise) (it's not). the ryoji episodes were everything i imagined ryoji to be. you can tell that sogabe worked on reload. i love how aleks le brought him to life. the music box drives me crazy. i love how special ryoji and minato's bond is and seeing them be like, explicitly, textually written the way they were? earth shattering, for me. they made new year's eve even more (oh no i've been flushed down the feelings lane). how the fuck did they do that!!!

i also still really love most of the ENG VA cast and what they brought to the table. allegra clark's performance as mitsuru was especially standout to me... so was zeno robinson as junpei... but GOD!!! SEES felt so lived in. i love the passion the new VAs had for the game and it felt evident to me in their performance.

and that's my reload thoughts :) i think it's nice that reload exists even if some things about it disappointed me. i do wish i didn't have a bunch of caveats when talking about it, but like... i find it very fun to dissect my feelings on it??? given that reload had some things that didn't land for me, it makes it all the more important to me to thank reload for what (i felt) it did well, and celebrate those parts of it. p3 is very near and dear to my heart and i will always cherish the bits that felt resonant with me.

speaking of which, i do think it's nice that reload has been an entry way for people to get into persona... even though i haven't been engaging with the community as much as i used to, i do like that there's been more fanwork to look at... even if not all of it is my cup of tea...! it makes me happy that there's a resurgence of ryomina, but also the entire cast is... so shapely. i cherish them dearly and seeing that others also like them as much as i do makes me really, really happy!

i hope p3 can continue to make others happy the way it made me happy! the message will stick with me for a lifetime, methinks.

oh that's a lot of gigabytes.

[atissi]

What advice would you give someone who wants to play Pathologic but is also terrified of screwing up really badly because I've played just enough of it to feel like there's no way I can succeed without looking stuff up but I don't want to do that! Just basic tips and/or reassurances if you have any?

Updated: Feb. 27 2021 (since I've finished and am replaying P2)

See, the thing about Pathologic is that it’s not possible to “succeed” like you do in other video games. There’s no happy ending for everyone. In the same sense, you can’t really fail. The game accommodates a wide variety of deaths and mistakes—even in Pathologic Classic HD, you can get a character's ending if you hoard enough medicine by the end of the 12 days, no matter how many people get sick or die. In Pathologic 2, everyone can die, but you’ll still be able to get an ending. Even some of the "bad" endings are fun in their own right. Sometimes, the game will reward you with more content because you failed in the first place.

All that being said, I totally relate to your fears. I’ll start by talking about Pathologic 2 first, since I’m more familiar with it. Then there will be some tips on playing Pathologic Classic HD.

Pathologic 2 is incredibly punishing, both emotionally and mechanically. I’ve seen people adapt to this through 3 different playstyles. I’ll rank them in terms of “least close to the intended gaming experience” to “most close”.

1. Just cheat.

“wrt cheating, as a notorious cheater, id recommend trying to do the game as legitimately as possible regardless! if there are some aspects that you absolutely do not vibe with, even with reduced difficulty (for me that's hunger mechanics), i would say that you can load in items to mitigate this aspect. and, tying in with the second point, if you complete a run this way you can always go back and try it legitimately since you've (sort of) gotten an understanding of the mechanic.” - Onion

If you have really bad anxiety, or just dont have the time available to do the other playstyles, cheating is a way to engage with Pathologic 2′s excellent story. Fiddling with the difficulty controls is allowed. Spawning in endless food for yourself is possible. I can even get you in touch with someone who uses cheat codes in the game regularly to get game assets. If changing the game is what it takes for you to get through it, I think it’s better than nothing. But I’d personally at least encourage you to try an Imago playthrough first. Decide if it’s too difficult for you after that. And again: Pathologic 2 is constantly trying to trip you up. It’s meant to be difficult. Sometimes you’ll fail and the game won’t tell you if you could have prevented it. Just keep going. But like Onion said, cheating works as a supplement.

2. Replay, replay, and replay, until you get it right.

“You can always replay. You have more time than they do. Also save states are your friend.” - Alex

“reload as much as possible, do NOT look things up. your first playthru WILL be bad, and thats good!!! experience it fully yourself first. [and] “reload as much as possible” meaning like: [it] isnt a crime, you can do it as many times as possible. but dont get stressed about doing everything perfectly. its an experience!!!” - Zee

There’s no penalty for using your save states. If you get stuck in a death loop, go back as far as you need to in order to get things right. Hopefully this means starting a day over and using your time more effectively. Personally, I got to Day 7 before realizing I had to restart from Day 1, because I was doing that badly. Trust me, if you’ve gotten one miracle cure and 10 bottles of water by then, you’ll be doing better than I was. My friend Bee had trouble too, and took 92 hours to finish their first playthrough. A replay playstyle takes a LOT of time. But Pathologic 2 is so rich in content that replaying isn’t even as annoying as it could be. And this is also the best way to complete as many quests and save as many people as you want. Whenever you’re scared, just remember: you can always go back on your choices! (Other than the theatre’s death penalties. But nothing can help you with those.)

3. Just go through it.

Again. You’re not supposed to succeed in Pathologic. In the words of the lead translator Kevin Snow, “…I know [Pathologic 2’s] script and this is different from other games: there’s so much story locked behind failure and death. You’ll die, and you can’t save everyone. That doesn’t gate you from story; it gives you more. Resist, survive, but continue.” It’s only when you’re suffering that you experience the story so viscerally. That’s when the choices mean something. Sacrificing your own health or the health of others–saving tinctures for yourself, breaking into houses, killing people, choosing not to help people because you just don’t have time–these are impactful because you’re experiencing the mechanical repercussions of your actions. You are not a removed arbiter of the Town’s suffering. Everyone in Pathologic is having the worst 12 days of their life, and you’re dying right alongside them. Spoilers for Day 4, but I don’t think visiting the Rod and seeing the Tragedians would have affected me so deeply if I wasn’t actively starving for the entire sequence. It served as a reminder that I wasn’t the only one in pain; it was heart-breaking and heart-warming. Which I think is Pathologic at its core.

Try to see your failures in the game as another form of success. You’re experiencing the game as it’s meant to be played. And when you feel bad about all the people you’ve failed, remember that this is all a play. The game knows it’s artificial. You can replay the game after you finish–and feel free to use cheats or lowered difficulties on a replay–in order to get everything right. Your mistakes aren’t permanent! But on a first playthrough, try to tough through the hardships. You’ll have a more fulfilling time.

Other tips

You can use these 3 playstyles in combination if you need to. I let myself die when I feel like I deserved the punishment, or reload when I feel like I don’t. Bee managed to finish Day 11 by lowering the game difficulty in the final stretch. Just approximate the intended gaming experience as much as you can.

As for gameplay guides, I don’t think anyone I’ve met recommends it (at least for Pathologic 2). The game does interesting things with when and where it reveals information to you, often in ways that are deliberately inconveniencing. You want to experience that on your own. I also think Pathologic 2 is relatively good at telegraphing mechanics or quests. compared to Patho Classic. That said, I do have tips that I wish I knew before playing:

Sprint everywhere. I know the town is beautiful. But you’re on a hell of a time crunch. If you finish your quests early you can forage or trade for more resources, or just bottom out your exhaustion bar. Sprinting does not make your exhaustion go up faster, and water is plentiful in the first few days. Just do it! Save your own time!

Save a lot. Even if you’re not gonna die on your way in and out of the Broken Heart, this game is chock-full of choices, down to the resource management. If you waste a swig of twyrine, you’ll want a good save point to reload at. You can load any save point in your timeline, so save as often as you want. Keep track of where clocks are on the map--the game tags these in the building descriptions. (For that matter, keep track of where beds are. I didn’t realize I could sleep at Vlad Sr.’s place, which made me waste SO much time travelling between the Shelter and the Lair.)

Learn the trading economy. Everyone holds items at different values. Even the kids value certain nuts over others. There are also some interesting conversion rates between items, like peanuts to soap to pemmican. Make the most of the items you’re bartering. And for that matter, try to build up a cache of items valuable to little girls, in case you find one with a schmowder. The kid’s caches are valuable for trading too: twyrine can show you the locations.

This is also a good spoiler-free guide to Pathologic 2′s mechanics.

For Pathologic Classic HD, I haven’t personally played it, but I’m under the impression that it’s easier than Pathologic 2 because there are less character perma-deaths and no death penalties. The advice about reloading still applies. Here’s what Ally says:

“id recommend using a spoiler free guide (Bachelor, Haruspex, and Changeling guides) but other than that read the diary and letters carefully and try to keep track of npcs that could be affiliated with quests. also! some quests have different options for endings so there could be multiple ways to complete them. stock up on food on the earlier days, and after the inquisitor arrives because the prices drop. try to stealth kill with melee weapons when you can, and also reserve your bullets. …also make sure to trade with the children a lot! hold onto objects like the hooks and flowers [to get schmowders. Like I said before, to win the game you only need enough cures to heal the Bound.] …another tip is to keep a pen and paper around to take notes. like when i got the tincture recipes instead of keeping them in my inventory i just wrote them down.”

And that’s it! If you need specific advice or clarification, feel free to DM me! I love talking about this game. I can also get you in touch with anyone mentioned in this post (except Kevin Snow LMAO). Pathologic has an amazing story and I want everyone to experience it!!!