#i don't begrudge kazuma

[thistaleisabloodyone]

-preorders Kazuma's photobook, begrudgingly accepting his space in their heart-

[kobitoshiningneedle]

For the fandom hot take thing I have two:

Kazuma is not part of the found family and neither is Barok. The only members of that group are Ryunosuke, Susato, Iris, and Herlock. I fully admit I'm biased as a Kazuma and Barok hater but neither Kazuma nor Barok have a positive relationship with Iris and Herlock the way that Ryunosuke and Susato do. At best Kazuma has a separate found family dynamic with Ryunosuke and Susato but that doesn't make him a member of the found family as a whole.

As for my second hot take? People say Ryunosuke and Susato have a sibling relationship, but honestly I don't see it. I'll admit I'm biased since I ship them together but these two do not talk about each other the way siblings do. Their final conversation is as close to a love confession as it can get without them outright saying they're in love and the game having them kiss. As someone with siblings I'd never talk about or to my siblings the way these two do in the final scene of Resolve and even outside of it I feel like a lot of their scenes are framed/treated romantically. People just don't want to see it because of the age gap and, like, it's fine if people don't like the age gap but they don't need to make up reasons why they're siblings instead of lovers. If anything, reading their relationship as siblinglike just makes it feel incesty when you consider the romantic framing and while I'm not necessarily against incest ships myself I know a lot of people are nowadays. I for one, will never see those two as anything but lovers. Maybe not at the start of the duology, but definitely by the end.

You listed two takes I have very strong feeling about, beware! I will be rambling a lot!

So about Barok and Kazuma...

Strongly agree | Agree | Neutral | Disagree | Strongly disagree

I want to say that Kazuma is one of my faves of all times, but I'm really critical about him, because he's an interesting mess (in an ugly way that's different from the typical twinkboy way), and because the fandom isn't normal about him and wanks him too much, and I'm mama's contrarian. So first of all, Kazuma was never a type of a character to be in a "found family" dynamic - too strong his dedication to Asogi's legacy. I'm sure he loves and respects Ryunosuke and Susato, and I hope he will befriend Iris, but he will never have the same sentiment as Ryunosuke about having "the best family in the world". Besides, my optimistic prospects of him adapting in London aside, the actual game showed us that his care for another people, especially Susato was really lukewarm and thus pretty condemnable if you ask me. So Kazuma, even after the truth he was seeking for 10 years is laid bare, is too much of a mess to be able to form meaningful connections. At least at this point

Now about Barok... He's technically a family to Iris, but it's a whole another thing to found family Iris found herself in with Sholmes et al. However, the uncle and niece started to have slow attempts to become closer. As much as broody Barok is, he probably won't miss a chance to suppoty Klint's daughter. Besides, there's this interesting begrudging friendship with Sholmes himself. Aaand respect for Ryunosuke. Still, neither of this isn't quite a found family make, and just like Kazuma, Barok doesn't have this type of commitment to consider 221B crew as such. So he's more like this brooding uncle everyone invies once a year or something

What I also believe is that Kazuma and Barok would be able to create a some sort of suppost network between each other and their closes colleagues like Gina or Maria Gorey (although Gina is 221B family member too). I won't be a family, and I'm not sure the two prosecutors need that, but they would do just fine not associating with 221B member as close as possible

The second take... *inhales*

Super-puper double mega agree | Strongly agree | Agree | Neutral | Disagree | Strongly disagree

I think even without shipping Ryususa (which I do) the sibling dynamic doesn't make much sense. The only argument in favor of it I can think of is Iris calling them her siblings. Which doesn't mean anything in terms of their own dynamic, since

They did this partly to support and encourage poor orphan girl

They chose to be called Iris' siblings, not each other's. It's like saying a married couple suddenly become incest since one of the party's parents is another's parent-in-law

It's historical fiction, where familial terms don't define strictly platonic relationship. In older books you will see someone saying "You're like a brother to me" and this will mean "I want to lala you forever". So at some point maaaybe Ryunosuke will say to Susato "You're like a sister to me, Susato-san!" and mean exactly this, because this is how people in ye olde times articulated their feelings. They weren't familiar with twitter fandom discourse

And honestly? Even without shipping goggles there's hardly some sort of fraternal bond between them like with, say, Phoenix and Maya or Apollo and Trucy, or Franziska and Miles (of course it's subjective and one might not see their dynamics as siblingey either, so this is all my opinion). They feel like comrades, coworkers with their formalities and respect.

And of course we all know that people who insist that Ryu and Susato are like siblings don't actually genuinely appreciate their dynamic from this perspective, they just looking for reasons to invalidate a ship that rivals their OTP

[booperbeanv3]

I think the reason I just cannot ship baroaso is BC their vibes remind me of Edgeworth and Franziska. Also it's because they hate each other too much. Like, Kazuma had 0 expectations from Genshin's work trip until the two notes popped up, one being from some 24 year old who has beef with him contradicting the other talking about his peaceful death. Apparently, because now, the bloodline is tainted. So he's gonna personally cuss him out.

So now internally, Kazuma's like "Oh I hate this guy" and dedicated the next decade of his life to legging it over to England and stabbing his fingers in his eyeballs and going "I TOLD YOU SO" when he finds out the truth of the matter. And then kills this guy. Cuz like, how dare he just insult him and his family like that?

Obviously things don't go that way, but y'know, I think their relationship is built on so much pure hatred for each other that the only reason why they stand each other is BC of A. Stronghart, and after he's gone, B. Ryuunosuke. Ryuunosuke has to push in-between the two and go "guys. quit it. just leave it alone" and they begrudgingly follow. Otherwise it's for work.

Obviously they still need to tolerate each other for work, and since they kinda maybe don't really hate each other too much after 2-5, they could get along, but the damage has already been done. Barok spent the majority of his screen time being incredibly racist, it's all because he's justified it in his head that "It's because of that damn Asougi". Guess who Kazuma is.

I think they have good potential for being enemies to friends, but I can't imagine them in a stable romantic relationship. Just as begrudging friends. Maybe they start getting along more in the long run, but I dunno. Also I just have more preferred pairings for them.

[thenon-fictiondays]

now, baroaso/asobaro, however you like it to be

(yes, this is my fave, not yours, but i still wanna know)

when I started shipping it if I did: I....don't really ship it, sorry 😅

my thoughts: enemies to lovers is a top-tier trope but this one doesn't really do it for me. It could also have to do with the large age gap? I get why people ship it tho, and yall are valid 🙌 There is definitely flavor in the whole "begrudging respect" thing

What makes me happy about them: it is so funny to me that Kazuma ended up working for the man he's sworn to exact revenge upon. Like I know the timeline doesn't work out bc almost immediately after Kazuma regains his memories and finds out about the Professor case is when Barok is imprisoned but I'm just imagining the inconvenience of sharing an office with your sworn enemy like. "You WILL pay for what you've done. Also have you seen my pen? The one that writes really well, you know the one. I think I might've dropped it under your desk, can you just check? Also I WILL see you ROTTING IN JAIL for what you've done." Endless comedy potential

What makes me sad about them: The missed potential for found family :( They both got robbed of their bio families and by the end of canon, neither of them actually gets to stay with their found families?? Kazuma's goes back to Japan and nobody tells Iris that Barok is her uncle (tho he does promise to come visit her so I guess it's better than nothing)

things done in fanfic that annoys me: nothing :)

things I look for in fanfic: I don't :)

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: I prooooobably don't need to answer this 😂

My happily ever after for them: therapy. which I realize wasn't a thing at the time but. yeah

who is the big spoon/little spoon: I get the feeling Barok is super touch starved so he can be little spoon as a treat

what is their favorite non-sexual activity: I feel like they're the kind of couple that goes out to cafes and stuff and just sits there roasting other patrons under their breath idk

[drbtinglecannon]

DGS for the fandom ask. KH as well if you feel like it.

DGS my beloved series ;__;

blorbo (favorite character, character I think about the most)

Barok, but he's also the plmm, so I would have to give this to Herlock otherwise.

Herlock is just the best Sherlock adaptation ever. He's so gender goals, his outfit fucks, his theme fucks, he himself does not fuck tho he's so low-key lame, he's a single dad, he's an idiot, he's an genius, he's an ADHD icon. I love him.

I have so many thoughts about how his life with Iris must've been pre-canon and even more gripes with how their early relationship in canon was portrayed. How much did this sensitive man cry over the years when Iris didn't take his last name? What I wouldn't have given to see Herlock cry on screen when Iris finally called him 'daddy'. Also what I wouldn't have given to defend this dingus in court.

scrunkly (my "baby", character that gives me cuteness aggression, character that is So Shaped)

Gina my baby, I was immediately drawn to her the second she popped up on screen. Not too into the "petty criminal reforms by becoming a cop" trope but it really warmed my heart seeing Gina in better fitting, nicer clothes with a dog and able to finally smile easily, but still steals Ryuu's money lol. She deserved a softer situation than what she had before. Also her theme fucks. (Yes I'm aware Inspector Lestrade is a Holmes reference I just still don't like that trope)

scrimblo bimblo (underrated/underappreciated fave)

Gregson! I love him, even despite his crimes, he was such a fun detective char and really funny. It was also an interesting change where he wasn't like clearly on your side vs the prosecutor (like Ema) or felt equally loyal to both sides (like Gumshoe), but he does noticeably start to warm up to Ryuu and Susato as the story progressed. Also be became a begrudging dad, we love character growth. I still miss him.

glup shitto (obscure fave, character that can appear in the background for 0.2 seconds and I won't shut up about it for a week)

Maria my girl. Her design is Peak Goth Victorian Goals, literally a plague doctor. I'd argue Maria's one of the most morally sound chars in the entire duology too. Never once does she compromise her integrity in favor of someone she loves (Kazuma, Barok, Susato) or out of fear (Gina) or for an authority figure (Mikotoba, Dr. Sithe), which combined with her seemingly genuine apathy towards the law is so fascinating. Like she was perfectly made to copy Barok or Kazuma's mistakes but she didn't, and not because she didn't love her mother as much as they loved Klint & Genshin, but because she cared too much about her work, and then even further she held no bitterness towards Ryuu, Susato, or Barok for indicting her mother and still adores her mother as much as before even after learning what she did.

I would love another DGS game or anime or something, and Maria getting more screentime is one of the top 3 reasons for it.

poor little meow meow ("problematic"/unpopular/controversial/otherwise pathetic fave)

Is there even a greater Poor Little Meow Meow than Barok van Zieks? Like, he was molded in the plmm form, his mascot is literally a cat, he's a depressed pathetic (affectionate) adult man, his one hobby is wine, he's a snarky bitch but secretly very compassionate like a total tsundere, his office Looks Like That, he's dripping sex appeal but is so repressed and ace. He starts out very problematic but shows genuine attempts to change by the end, and as I mentioned above I live for character growth. Barok is my fav prosecutor in the entire franchise; he legitimately helps the defense in every case even when he's still more of an antagonist, he's a tough opponent without using scummy tactics, his design fucks, his theme FUCKS, his speech bubble is personalized, he doesn't attack the defense... (which honestly was only funny with Franziska and Godot, and even with Godot it wasn't as funny), his big objection gif is showing off his flexibility by slamming his leg on the fucking table while holding a chalice of wine, he's the only char that they finally said "yeah this mofo's drinking alcohol not juice" --- I could go on.

One of the things I hate most about the fandom (aside from how often people tag their hate posts with the actual char/ship tags) is how many fans just straight up pretend he didn't spend the last 2 cases changing. Like yeah anyone can hate him for whatever reason and no one is obligated to forgive him for his many grievances up until then, but pretending he didn't change at all? Come on.

horse plinko (character I would torment for fun, for whatever reason)

Skulkin Brothers, they'd be great in a plinko machine. I wonder which one would fall faster?

In a more sympathetic/happy torment? sense then Kazuma hands down. And it wouldn't even be difficult, it'd just be like Susato enlisting Gina & Iris' help to kidnap him from the prosecutor's office, drag him to the celebration party at 221B Baker Street, and forcing him to hug it out with his husband Ryuu. (Which should've happened they should've hugged after 2-3 and again before leaving and also Kazuma should've been at the party. ;___; ) also the mental image of 3 cute little girls kidnapping an adult man much stronger than them is beyond hilarious, esp if Barok saw and did nothing to stop it.

eeby deeby (character I would send to superhell)

Klint van Zieks my beloved. He's already in superhell for eating the rich crimes. I love you, you ruined everything, my bi poly slut (affectionate)

As for KH I actually barely know shit about it outside of memes, I only ever watched my bff play 1&2 and that was back in middle school haha. All of the Org. XIII are interchangeable for plmm & the horse plinko tho

[drbtinglecannon]

Other things we need (read: that I want)

Barok redemption worked on further (I don't think it was bad to end when it starts but I want to see his change, like we got with Edgeworth over the games) (also have him try to learn Japanese and send an apology letter to Natsume can you imagine how funny his reaction would be, it also fits with Barok being polite despite being kinda a dick)

Barok being Iris' uncle and in turn awkwardly joins the 221B Baker family

Iris learning her lineage, but it doesn't matter. Hurley is her daddy

Herlock on trial Herlock on trial I wanna defend Herlock put him on trial please I want to defend him

Another Susato led case but Rei is her assistant and it's like perfectly mirroring the weird flirting of Ryuunosuke & Kazuma's trial in 1-1. OR Ryuunosuke is unavailable to do the first day of trial or something and Susato covers it (like Edgeworth did in Bridge to the Turnabout)

More Maria Gorey that girl is so fucking cool and we got so little of her, also would love to see more early era forensics stuff

Gina healing and growing into her position post Gregson death

Hosonaga gets allergy meds, stops coughing up blood

Speaking of Hosonaga, would love to see some other ridiculous disguise for him

Kazuma, Barok, and/or Gina doing 'dance of dedication' with Herlock, complete with whatever way any of them would dance

Kazuma led case with Barok as his assistant. There's a point where you're asked "what's the victim's name" or "who is the true assailant" and you can choose "Barok van Zieks", and when you do he shakes his head sighing "I thought you were over your burning desire to kill me, Mr. Asougi." Also it would be fun to play as the prosecutor for once, maybe it's done like you're accusing someone obviously guilty but the only witness is unreliable/not liked -- I feel like there could be a way to do it

Speaking of, Kazuma Barok Gina weird trio begrudging friendship please. Extra points if Maria is included.

vanlock Herlock and Barok friendly bickering, extra if it's about Iris

I want to see how the systems are adjusting post Strongheart falling, cuz I think it would be significantly worse at first before it can start to get better. Like who replaces him? What kind of changes are added to court processes in game?

More DLC outfits please, Kazuya Nuri, I want more slutty men 🥵

Toby is gigantic now. Still jumps on people

Obligatory Asoryuu content

Capcom you don't understand, we need DGS3 so we can get a Barok smiling animation.

Like Susato set it up perfectly at the end of 2-5 and then he didn't smile and it's like we need DGS3 Capcom