#i do genuinely think it's neat just HOW different our views on bison's character are

[sunsetsover]

of course! like i said to you already i think it's so interesting that they differ so strongly on these points considering how aligned our opinions on things have been so far!! and it's fun tbh !! and likewise i would never want to change your mind either, but i also i wanted to address the stuff you brought up just to see how vastly our opinions differ

like it's just so weird bc i don't see what you see at all. i've always got the impression bison is kinda just like 'urgh ok let's do this then' when it comes to killing. like it's a chore. like he's being put out every time they have to do it. even in ep 1 i got the immediate impression that he would've rather been literally anywhere else than in that hotel room w that guy, and was out of there literally as soon as he could be, and i just personally wouldn't think that he'd be so eager to get it over and done with and leave if he was getting any kind of joy or satisfaction out of it, yknow? like wouldn't he be radiating satisfaction after a job well done? wouldn't he wanna bask in the afterglow a bit?

and i'm definitely not gonna sit here and pretend that it's bc it bothers him and he's morally opposed to the killing !! i don't think it's that at all, he definitely dgaf abt killing ppl and wants out for purely selfish reasons, we agree there, but i've never thought 'oh he likes this' beyond that one moment in that first scene, and again, i don't think that was a killing thing but a power thing. bc he was relieved when fadel turned up and they could get it over and done with, and again, he was out of there at the first opportunity. to me there was never any satisfaction there, it was just a job to be done.

even in that gif i don't see what you see, though i CAN see how you see what you see, if that makes sense? like i get where you're coming from, there's definitely a contrast, but i personally look at that and think well. fadel's bigger and likely stronger, and the guy he's knocking out is already unconscious and no longer fighting. bison is smaller and the guy he's dealing with is putting up a fight. that face, to me, is literally just him struggling physically. so i think what you're reading as enthusiasm to me is just the contrast between fadel and bison as people: fadel is stoic, and bison is dynamic. fadel shuts up and gets on with the task at hand, bison struggles and complains and huffs. but that, as far as i'm concerned, is just their personalities and nothing more.

although, weirdly enough, i definitely get what you said abt the sadism thing. it's something i've gone back and forth abt myself, and i still haven't made my mind up yet - whether the two are separate in bison's mind or not. either way, i think to me there's a difference between taking pleasure in killing and taking pleasure in hurting people. i think if the two were conflated, we would see that manifested by now. like he'd be fucking with people a lot more during these hits if there was a connection i think. instead all he does is do his job and move on. i think if anything bison gets off on the psychological aspect of it all as opposed to anything physical, but that would go back to control and power, which is what i've always said is bison's thing. i don't think that really has anything to do with the actual killing part of the equation personally.

i also don't think bison views lilly as evil or disbelieves her! but i also don't think he's.... enthusiastic in his part in all of this? he's not like keen. but i think that leeway is necessary when it comes to bison. it's not bc she likes him more or treats him special bc she acc considers him special, i think it's bc lilly is clever and she knows the harder she tries to rein bison is the harder he's going to fight, so she gives him the illusion of power, of referential treatment. she lets him question her to her face with no real repercussions. but that's not bc she likes bison, it's bc she knows how to manipulate him. she knows how to manipulate fadel too. and while i said he's under her thumb, i didn't really mean it in the sense of him being on her side, but rather fadel - at least to me - is far more caught in her trap than bison is. yes fadel lies, but i don't think he's being strategic so much as he's doing everything he can to not rock the boat. probably bc he's already rocked it once and paid the price. if it wasn't for bison - and by extension kant and style - fadel would have been perfectly fine (maybe not fine but ygm) leaving everything exactly the way it was. he literally says that, both to style during his confession and to bison last ep. and ok he's definitely lying abt how happy he was w the way things were, but the point still remains that he had no intentions of changing anything. which is why i wouldn't say he's strategic at all, bc that to me implies he's planning something, and fadel clearly wasn't. he didn't even wanna let bison ask for a break.

and while i don't disagree that bison probably does trust her more than fadel given everything, i don't think the fact that he speaks up has anything to do w that personally. i think that's literally just a personality thing. i don't think being sneaky is bison's thing - it's why he struggled so much pretending to be in love with kant after he found out the truth while fadel seemingly had no problem w it at all. bison's outspoken bc that's literally just who it is. i don't think him going behind her back - or anyone's backs - is really an option for him, esp not for long periods of time. (also im just not sure what you mean abt fadel going behind her back? fadel lies to her abt the dating thing, but as far as i can remember any sneaking fadel is doing bison is also doing, so am i blanking? have i missed smth?)

i think it all boils down to what you view as enjoyment, i view as just fundamental personality differences between bison and fadel and how they express themselves. which is fun! i love the difference! it's what pushes us to expand our own views of these characters ! i just thought i'd expand on this bc obv i was limited in the tags and you know i loveeeee to talk 💞

just woke up in a cold sweat because i think i’ve realized exactly what all the fucking religious symbolism is actually pointing out and like hoooooly shit. holy shit.

the fact that bison wears a jesus shirt in his fantasies of killing kant has been nagging me since the moment i realized it and i think i’ve realized why it is - and the reason for all of the things pointing towards and symbolizing bison as jesus.

it’s because that’s how bison views himself. not as actually jesus and the second coming, no, but he views himself as righteous, as a reckoning for all these people that they kill. he believes their mother when he says they only kill bad people, and that’s why he gets so much enjoyment out of it, why he involves himself far more in it than fadel, who always detaches himself. it’s why he delights in the idea of killing kant now, fantasizes about it, because he thinks that’s what’s right. kant betrayed him, and he’s a good person. he’s righteous. so that means kant deserves to die for it.

and that’s why kant is judas the betrayer AND john the beloved. because when bison knows it’s coming and turns a blind eye, he views himself the same way as jesus turning a blind eye to judas’s betrayal. and he’s the one the makes kant into john the beloved finding the tomb empty first because he hides from him (notably after kant had confessed to not wanting to lie to bison anymore)!

bison views himself as righteous. as jesus.

but he’s not. because jesus would never take joy in killing anyone. jesus would never have fun with it, in the same way bison does. and even if he did, jesus wouldn’t want to stop to date.

but you know who doesn’t take joy in any of it? who detaches himself from it? who seems, in the very least, suspicious of their mother?

you know who’s birthday is on christmas?

fadel. and if fadel is jesus… then bison can’t be. actually, i think that might make bison far closer to judas the betrayer. and that’s just awfully poetic, isn’t it? because didn’t judas think he was doing the right thing, too, when he sold jesus out? when he took money in exchange for telling the soldiers which one jesus was? just like bison thought he was doing the right thing when he told kant to get fadel off his back. just like he exchanged his brother for a lover and took them both down in the process.