#i do be taking more than what noda sensei is intending me to take from it

[cowboy-robooty]

ok im giving myself such a bad rep bc im always coming on here and bitchin n moaning about when a fun show goes serious and saying its bad. BUT I DONT HATE WHEN A SERIES IS LIGHTHEARTED AND SERIOUS AT THE SAME TIME OKAY IM JUST A VERY PICKY PERSON. IM BOUGIE ABOUT IT I BE LIKE MMM... THIS WAGYU IS A BIT TOUGH.... BLEH! *spits out*

[goldenkamuyhunting]

to comment on the last answer, i feel like calling ogata a “pet cat” in a sense that he’s deceitful and cunning (in case of tsukishima) and talking about “cat repellent” and clawing at things in a sense that ogata has cat-like mannerisms and kills his prey without any regrets (in case of sugimoto) is not the same as calling him a “son of a wh*re” which is basically what the soldiers were doing. it’s a derogatory “joke” rather than just a childish insult, and i would say those two are above that

Hum... I take this is meant to be a reply to my answer to this ask... which means I’m probably very late in replying to you for which I apologize and also that...

... I fear we’ll have agree to disagree.

No idea if you prefer to stop here or you’re interested in hearing why I disagree in details, but, in case you are, here there’s why.

For start insulting people saying they’re "son of a wh*re/b*tch" or a "bastard” is something typical of western culture, as our culture decided women aren’t allowed to enjoy sex or have it with someone who’s not their husband, unless they’ve a loose sense of morals and are therefore ‘wh*res’ and they pass this loose sense of morals to their children so they’re also the ones to blame if their sons are complete jerks.

So yeah, if this was a western work, the soldiers would probably be calling Ogata as such... only it’s not a western work.

You might have heard characters being called "son of a wh*re/b*tch" or a "bastard” in manga/anime but normally that’s not how they’re called in the Japanese text. Japanese people have their own way to insult people that doesn’t directly translate in English, which forces English translators to pick up insults that instead are comprehensible for English speakers... with the result that whoever assumes the translation is a litteral one, sees an extra layer of insult when people called Ogata a ‘bastard’, as it seems to refer to his status as illegittimate child... when actually in the original Japanese text nothing of the sort happened and the insult used was different in meaning.

To continue the soldiers aren’t really calling him ‘son of a yamaneko’ but just ‘yamaneko’ which would means, if you translate ‘Yamaneko’ as ‘wh*re’ that they’re calling him a ‘wh*re’ not the son of one.

But let’s stop a moment on the choice of the word ‘Yamaneko’ to mean ‘wh*re’.

As Japanese people normally used other words to say ‘prostitute’.

We’ve ‘yūjo’ (遊女 lit “play woman”, “pleasure woman”), which is probably the most common and you might notice the first kanji is both in “red light district” (遊郭 ‘yūkaku’) and in “brothel“ (遊女屋 ‘yūjoya’), although according to some is nowadays a bit ‘old style’.

Ushiyama used ‘shōfu’ (娼婦 “prostitute lady”)... and there are also much more (scholars say Japanese people have 30 words among which to pick to define a woman as a ‘wh*re’).

So why picking ‘Yamaneko’ a word that not even a Japanese person like Sugimoto knows to be used with that meaning?

Because, as Koito explains, they wanted to use the word not just for the meaning of “someone who sells sex” but for the meaning of “someone who cheats/frauds/deceives”.

‘Soreni `yamaneko' ni wa inchiki toka hito o bakasu imi no ingo mo aru nodarou? Yamaneko kaisha toka...’

それに「山猫」にはいんちきとか人を化かす意味の隠語もあるのだろう？山猫会社とか...

There would be no point to explain it in the story if this weren’t the intended translation but they merely wanted to insult Ogata through his birth.

Japanese people love wordplays and this one works perfectly as it allows them to subtly refer to Ogata’s birth while at the same time accuse him of being a swindler.

Going on.

You say: “talking about “cat repellent” and clawing at things in a sense that ogata has cat-like mannerisms and kills his prey without any regrets (in case of sugimoto)”.

Too bad Sugimoto only started doing it after he learnt Ogata was called ‘Yamaneko’ by the army (although the readers knew about Ogata being called ‘Yamaneko’ from chap 58, they learnt it from the title page... or, if they were reading the volume from the page introducing the characters at the start of the volume).

Chap 199 is the first time in which we hear the characters using that nick.

Continuing, both Sugi and Tsukishima are clearly doing it in the sense that Ogata frauded/deceived them when he betrayed them... so yes, not in order to refer to his birth as the illegittimate child of Hanazawa and a geisha, but they’re doing it aware that the insults they’re chosing are tied to the ‘wildcat’ joke, which is low.

At least, that’s my opinion.

As said before if yours is different we can just agree to disagree.

After all only Noda sensei knows the truth. Thank you for sharing your opinion with me!

[chibivesicle]

Hello A lot of times some gk fans complain that some people replace Shiraishi with ogata in the trio. I actually saw two people complain about this today. I don’t know if they were referring to your post. What do you think about this ? What’s the difference between sugi-ogata- asirpa trio and sugi- shira-asirpa trio? I really like your analysis so I would like to know your opinion

Hello, thanks for your question.

First off, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on things and it really depends how a reader understands or connects to the work.

But in regard to the idea that there is one true trio is bit silly.

Since the start, I have always read the first and serious trio to be Ogata-Asirpa-Sugimoto.  These are the first three characters introduced.  Noda-sensei kept Ogata in the back of the readers minds while he was recovering in the hospital.  The fact that Tamai & Co. plus Tanigaki go in search of who ever had attacked Ogata in the first place.  The fact that when he regains consciousness, Tsurumi immediately goes to him.  Ogata was in the background until he reappeared to try to kill Tanigaki whom he was afraid would sell him out to Tsurumi and whom also killed Tamai & Co (as far as Ogata knows at that point in time). 

Another important aspect of Ogata and Sugimoto is that they are frequently shown either in opposition or as mirrors.  Ogata kills from afar and is cold and detached.  Sugimoto kills up front and personal and tries to remember the faces of the men he killed to atone for his acts.  Neither character cries out in pain when hurt by others (and boy did I try to find a scene were one of them does cry out in pain to prove @goldenkamuyhunting wrong.  I couldn’t -_-). 

They both “blow off” wounds or ignore them until they complete a mission.  Both at times throw themselves into situations without abandon.  Both men show little value for their lives at times but their personalities are complete opposites.  Asirpa saw her father in Sugimoto when they first met and both individuals are both and bossy at times.  But Asirpa has a lot in common with Ogata; they use long range weapons, both lost their families or were abandoned.  I think Ogata is a possible outcome for Asirpa if she doesn’t start to take control of her role in the gold hunt.  Chapter 191 saw her trying to detach herself from trauma.  I hope that is a temporary coping mechanism and she doesn’t slide down the Ogata direction.  She did have a very very bad day.

I think a lot of the conflict between Sugimoto and Ogata stem from how they perceive the other in relation to Asirpa.  Sugimoto was livid that Ogata “stole” Asirpa,  I think that on some level Sugimoto sees Asirpa as a kid sister but also sees her similar to Umeko as a female whom he cares deeply about.  Sugimoto was clearly upset that Toraji married Umeko - he told her to marry Toraji and she did but you could tell he was like “But you were supposed to wait for me … but the two of you went ahead and got married without me …” Sugimoto doesn’t say want he needs to say and as a result others move on without his input.

Ogata figured out quickly that Asirpa has a crush on Sugimoto.  He clearly saw that Sugimoto sees her as a kid sister.  I think Ogata wanted to avoid Asirpa becoming hurt by Sugimoto since he knows he romantically has feelings for another woman who is never directly mentioned by Sugimoto.  When Ogata does his fake flashback he’s trying to in part get Asirpa to move on from her crush.  He likely sees the possibility for Asirpa to be hurt like his mother.  I think Ogata in part saw it as tough love for Asirpa to protect her as well as his own need for her to chose him over Sugimoto.  Everyone has more than one thing at play in their interactions. 

But with the events that have occurred, these three characters are going to have to talk to each other.  Sugimoto can’t other and dehumanize Ogata, he just saved him for Asirpa.  Asirpa needs to know why Ogata wanted her approval and trust.  Asirpa needs to realize that she almost killed Ogata and has to find a way to resolve her issues with self-defense vs offensive actions.  And Sugimoto needs to let Asirpa realize that she almost killed him instead of “saving” her by “saving” Ogata who we know he wanted to kill with his bare hands if possible.

Okay, so let’s shift to the Sugimoto-Asirpa-Shiraishi trio.  I think of this as the friendship trio.  They goof around, they all are foodies always enjoying their dinners with lots of statements of “Hinna!” etc.  The anime really highlighted these guys more than the manga does in my opinion - season 2 really uses the three of them grouped as a theme which isn’t as common.  Just watch the opening - Who is the trio?  These guys. Where is Ogata?  Just with some blood splatter, he’s not that important according to season 2.

Now, Noda himself said that Shiraishi wasn’t intended to be a long term character.  Kamuy Central has a section about character models.  Here is the end of the translation.

https://kamuycentral.wordpress.com/2017/12/27/the-model-for-shiraishi-yoshitake/

And here we even have Kamuy Central calling them a trio!  So yes, these guys to form a trio based on food, friendship, and fun times.

Shiraishi wormed his way into Noda’s head and heart so he got a larger role than originally intended.  I like this, Shiraishi is a good character, he isn’t in my top 4, but I like him better than Tanigaki and Koito for example.  Personally, he adds more levity to the manga and he also is as I’ve stated before a lover and not a fighter which shows in how his character has developed from being a selfish loner to a man with a few close and real friends (even though he just buried one of them).  He plays an important role giving the reader a way into how one would feel being friends with Sugimoto but watching how brutal he can be when he intends to kill.  Think of him watching Sugimoto after Hemei’s death … how he was afraid of Sugimoto when he had no choice but to secretly work for Hijikata. 

Furthermore, his character development has been heartwarming … I really hope he eventually learns why Kiro was willing to die for his cause and to see a bigger picture.  But baby steps, he’s got his first real set of friends so let’s not rush his development.

Now the best example of these guys as a trio go back to the snake kamuy/snake bite incident.  Ogata is outside looking in on their behaviour, Sugimoto and Shiraishi are giving Asirpa a hard time and it is all in good fun.  Ogata takes her seriously but he’s not joking around with the others.  When they are in the swamp hunting cranes, Shiraishi tries so hard to talk to Ogata … but he’s purposely ignoring him being his loner self and Shiraishi is a friendly guy. 

When we jump to chapter 189, the friend trio is reunited!  Poor Ogata is passed out on the ice while we they are finally able to see each other once again.  I think this shows the stark contrast between the “serious” trio and the “friend” trio.

Both are valid trios - just that one will move the plot further a lot more than the other.  I don’t predict another flashback about Shiraishi - we got his prison break romance and that is likely it.  And it was all played for laughs.  If Shiraishi were a part of the “serious” trio, we would need to see a very deep and tragic/sad/emotional flashback from him.  We don’t have that, and I don’t think we will get that.

When Sugimoto almost kills Ogata, the chapter ends with him and Asirpa inside her hunting tent eating dinner together.  This is in direct contrast with Ogata being pulled from the river on a stretcher.

Both Sugimoto and Ogata have grown their hair out after leaving the military either by choice or not.  Yet, both men can’t escape the cycle.

Ultimately, Sugimoto, Asirpa and Ogata will move the plot forward more so than Shiraishi will.  That’s okay.  He’s added a lot of depth to the cast. 

[recentanimenews]

Bookshelf Briefs 9/26/19

Black Clover, Vol. 17 | By Yuki Tabata | Viz Media – As predicted, friends are fighting friends in this one, as a good deal of the cast have been Possessed By Elves. Not Asta, of course; he’s our hero. But Yuno seems to be affected… except he proves to be the only one with the mental strength to throw it off. I’d roll my eyes at this if it weren’t Black Clover, a series that runs on clichés. Speaking of which, remember that nun from chapter one? The one Asta is theoretically still in love with? She returns here as the villains go after the orphanage, allowing Asta and Yuno to return and show off how much they’ve grown. Black Clover loves to run on things we’ve seen before, but this volume may have had a bit TOO much of that, as it was unsurprising. But still fun. – Sean Gaffney

Daytime Shooting Star, Vol. 2 | By Mika Yamamori | Viz Media – I will admit, this series is going to live or die on how far it takes the teacher student romance—I don’t THINK it’s endgame, but as with most shoujo it’s hard to make sure. (Shonen romances are nice enough to telegraph the winner in the first chapter.) It’s well-crafted, and the author seems to be aware of the issues it involves, but we shall see. Till then, I do enjoy the kids hanging out with each other, particularly when Suzume manages to be so sleepy during a study break that Yuyuya’s mask slips off and she starts berating her in front of everyone—though the masochistic guys she then starts to attract are less welcome. I enjoy the sense of humor and characters in this, despite some issues. – Sean Gaffney

Daytime Shooting Star, Vol. 2 | By Mika Yamamori | VIZ Media – Daytime Shooting Star continues to be far better than it seems like it’s going to be, with a student-teacher romance at its core. The important factor, of course, is that Suzune’s love for Shishio is unrequited, though he does finally become aware of it at the end of this volume. One thing I really love is that there’s drama—Suzune has made friends with Yuyuka (who has a subplot of her own in which she slips up and shows her true belligerent self and gains some masochistic devotees as a result) and is attempting to shield her from the knowledge that the boy Yuyuka likes (Mamura) instead likes Suzune—but no cartoonish, over-the-top villains. There’s just complicated circumstances and likable characters and it’s all really great. I hope it doesn’t spoil it all by doing something stupid like hooking up Suzune and Shishio, at least while she’s still a student. – Michelle Smith

Emanon, Vol. 2: Emanon Wanderer, Part One | By Shinji Kajio and Kenji Tsurata | Dark Horse Comics – This is two large short stories continuing the story of a young woman who has memories going back to the dawn of time. We get a better understanding of what happens when she moves from mother to daughter, and what happens to the mother—it’s disturbing and a bit terrifying, no surprises there. The current Emanon also has a twin brother, something that’s never happened before, and their reunion is as awkward as you can imagine. As for the first story, boy howdy that is a lot of nudity. It’s absolutely gorgeous—the art alone is worth buying this for. But boy howdy, that is an AWFUL lot of nudity. Interested to see where this goes next. – Sean Gaffney

Golden Kamuy, Vol. 11 | By Satoru Noda | Viz Media – This volume gives us the Golden Kamuy equivalent of Bonnie and Clyde in two lovers, now reunited after he gets out of prison, who love to make love and also love to kill people. Naturally, they run afoul of the 7th Division, but the action sequences are absolute gold. Meanwhile, Sugimoto and company are running into a new outlaw running around defiling animals. Biblically. If you’re the sort to be bothered by a two-page spread of a man screwing a deer… well, you likely stopped reading Golden Kamuy long ago, but I feel I should give the warning anyway. It’s also sort of hilarious, like a lot of Golden Kamuy‘s grossest moments. Even for a series that runs on pure “what the hell?” this volume was pretty bonkers. – Sean Gaffney

The Ideal Sponger Life, Vol. 3 | By Tsunehiko Watanabe and Neko Hinotsuki | Seven Seas – Even when our lead couple have successfully coupled, there’s still intrigue. Zenjiro NOT taking a second lover is proving to be, you’ll pardon me, a royal pain, and his pretense (which is somewhat true) that he’s so gaga over Aura that he can’t even look at another woman will only take him so far. Worse, once Aura’s pregnancy gets out, it turns out that Zenjiro’s ancestors may actually ALSO be from this world, which means trouble if the two magical powers combine in their child. Fortunately, our hero is also really good at contractual language, something we rarely see in an isekai. I’ll be honest, this is a LOT more interesting than I was ever expecting. I want more. – Sean Gaffney

Queen Bee, Vol. 1 | By Shizuru Seino | Kodansha Comics (digital only) – I read Seino’s Girl Got Game back in the day, but truth be told, I didn’t like it very much. Queen Bee is definitely an improvement, though I continue to not love Seino-sensei’s approach to zany comedy. (I just think too hard about where random chainsaws came from, for example.) Anyway, the premise here is that Mihane Hirata is an aggressive girl with a scary face who’s in love with the class prince, Toma. He thinks she’s interesting and wants to get to know her, but doesn’t want her for a girlfriend. What I didn’t like was all the background characters who keep popping up to comment about how hideous Mihane is, but what I do like is both Mihane’s self-loathing and Toma’s insistence that she should just be herself. If this were longer, I might pass, but as it’s complete in three volumes, I will probably finish reading it. – Michelle Smith

Uzaki-chan Wants to Hang Out!, Vol. 1 | By Take| Seven Seas – Given the titular heroine, all puns intended, and the fact that the book literally has a raised cover so you can see her boobs stick out, you would think this would in fact be pretty lewd. It’s not. Aside from one or two accidental gropes and a brief shot of Uzaki in the shower, this is not a title about boobs. What is it? Well, picture Teasing Master Takagi-san if she were actually bad at it. Uzaki really likes her sempai and wants to hang out with him all the time. He finds her overeager personality and ludicrous breasts to be rather exhausting, but doesn’t dislike her per se, so they do in fact hang out a lot. Slice-of-life then occurs. If you like that sort of manga, and can tolerate the breasts, this is worth a look. – Sean Gaffney

The Way of the Househusband, Vol. 1 | By Kousuke Oono | Viz Media – One of the manga debuts that I was most looking forward to this year was The Way of the Househusband. The premise is simple enough—a legendary yakuza boss known as The Immortal Dragon has left the underworld behind and now lives a his life as a stay-at-home spouse—but Oono’s execution is brilliant. The intensity, fervor, and complete earnestness of this former yakuza in his approach to household chores, shopping, and all the rest is magnificent to behold. I would certainly be interested in learning more about The Immortal Dragon’s wife and the story behind them settling down into marital bliss, but even if that is never more than hinted at, I expect The Way of the Househusband will continue to be immensely satisfying and ridiculous in the best sort of ways. I was not at all disappointed by the first volume and am eagerly awaiting future installments. – Ash Brown

The Way of the Househusband, Vol. 1 | By Kousuke Oono | VIZ Media – Tatsu used to be a revered yakuza known as “The Immortal Dragon,” but now he’s given up that life to pursue happy domesticity. Seldom has a series won my heart so quickly. It actually wasn’t the “cozy yakuza comedy” aspect, though that offers plenty of amusing scenarios, from Tatsu thoroughly intimidating an unscrupulous door-to-door salesman to drafting rival thugs to help him at a bargain sale to taking cooking lessons with a bunch of ladies to exclaiming “hot damn” over a great deal on cabbage. No, it was the cat, curiously sauntering into the background to survey the goings-on. The kitty has the best reactions (and some bonus chapters of his own). Tatsu’s career-woman/otaku wife Miku is great, too, and I look forward to the story of how they met. This short volume goes by swiftly, but it is quite the treat. – Michelle Smith

Why Shouldn’t a Detestable Demon Lord Fall in Love? Vol. 1 | By Nekomata Nuko and teffish| Sol Press – This book is like just eating pure sugar from the bag. For once the demon lord is the one summoned to another world. He’s fine with that, as a) everyone hated and misunderstood him in his own world, and b) his summoner is a hot young woman raising two cute orphan children. He’s nice. She’s nice. The kids are nice. Even the tsundere kid is really nice. There is an evil lord and his evil assistant, and they are the standard “I have no redeeming features” brand of evil, but you get the sense they were put in by editorial decree. The author just likes writing sweet married life scenes. I don’t know whether this deserves more volumes, but it was pretty good. – Sean Gaffney

Witch Hat Atelier, Vol. 3 | By Kamome Shirahama | Kodansha Comics – It’s titles like these that make you realize the sorts of things Harry Potter didn’t do. After resolving the cliffhanger of the previous volume, Coco continues to learn how to be a witch, helped by a young man in a potions workshop who can’t see colors, which makes it hard to, well, tell potions apart, as absentminded folks don’t really label them well. He’s a smart cookie, though, and shows her a shortcut that might help save her mother. Meanwhile, a lot of forces are making things more difficult for her—both actual antagonists, giving her secret powerful ink, or her own teacher, who may be more of a smiling villain than anything else. One of the best new titles this year. – Sean Gaffney

By: Ash Brown