#i also think there's something important about aegon becoming disabled

[fruitageoforanges]

Definitive thoughts on rook's rest post, maybe? I haven't seen many metas about how aemond and helaena must have felt about. That.

oh yes... 'definitive' thoughts maybe not so much, as i'm never good at 'definitive', but i do have thoughts.

i've actually written something in one of my fics about aemond's reaction to rook's rest, which sums up some of my thoughts:

He remembers Aegon after Rook’s Rest. The smell of him, burnt meat and rot. Blood, sharp, cloying. It was the smell of death; the maesters who slaved to save his charred flesh hung bundles of flowers to try to dispel it, but it clung on all the same, sour mixing with sweet. Recalling it brings sharp nausea to his mouth. No-one ever said it — the king may die . To do so would be treason, and Aemond isn’t sure what he would’ve done if one of the maesters told him to his face. After spending nights sat by Aegon’s bed, sword laid across his knees, he was wild enough to fight the Stranger themself if they came for his brother.

as much as it's a pivotal moment for aegon, it's also something of a pivotal moment for aemond. what we know of him is that he doesn't like aegon, but for all his cunty remarks like 'the crown looks better on me', he doesn't usurp him when he has the chance, and at storm's end he directly accuses luke of trying to steal his brother's throne. there's a deep vein of duty and love there, however complex. also, aemond was the one who killed meleys at rook's rest — i think watching aegon burn drove him a little wild. aegon, as the eldest brother, is the thing that has defined aemond's entire life, and it's probably the first time he's had to confront losing him. so: rage and grief enough for there to be nothing left of rhaenys but bones, and likely frustration that he can't just fight the stranger to heal aegon.

for helaena... obviously this is post-b&c, so she isn't mentally well, but i think she probably foresaw rook's rest in some capacity. and as/after it happened she just got this sick sense of certainty, that once again tragedy has struck her family, once again she was given advance warning but it was all for nothing, nothing changed, doom is overtaking them bit by bit and there's nothing she can do to stop it.

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

i think Helaena can be autistic but also a happy and joyful girl , autism ≠ depression. the way the portrayed the only neurodivergent character on screen as unstable, shunned depressed, and with no importance to the plot feel very ableist and weird , but then they're the ones who made the guy with a foot disability a feet fetishist 🫠

Hi OP, finally answering this because the trailer dropped and still the only Helaena shots we have are from her Jaehaerys' funeral. There is also one still photo of her. If you haven't seen it, here she is, apparently sewing the funeral shroud for her little boy:

So it seems like season 2 is going to continue on this trajectory for Helaena as a character who exists in order to suffer beautifully.

Don't get me wrong. I am glad that the show is going to wring the full emotional effect from Blood and Cheese, not just shock value. The audience will feel the real horror of a six year old child brutally murdered in his own home and the psychological torment of Helaena. It should be terrible, it should be devastating, and I hope they do not pull any punches.

What's disappointing about how the show has handled Helaena is that they didn't really put any effort into building up her character before her tragedy. It's all well and good that she likes bugs and she's touch averse, but what are her opinions? Who is she closest to? How did she react to becoming a mother so young? To what extent does she understand her visions? What does she value? She can be happy and cheerful, or she can be frustrated and angry, and hell, she can be depressed too, but I need to know why. It's telling that I can describe the basic internal motivations for each of the male children, including Luke who was a glorified plot device, but I cannot for Helaena. Aegon wants to feel loved, Jace wants to prove he's as worthy as any trueborn heir, Aemond wants what his brother has, Luke wants to be free from his family's expectations. Helaena? Fuck if I know. I guess she wants not to die horribly.

The ableism is an issue. F&B is full of women who were deemed "simple" -- Gael, Daella, Jaehaera-- without being given much else to define them, and HotD adds another (there's something, I think, to the way the "simple" Targaryens are always women and how disability kind of used as a way to remove them from the narrative and shunt them aside, often tragically). And while it's great to see an autistic person represented on screen, the show consistently has an issue with treating representation as characterization. "Autistic girl who likes bugs" is not a personality. Autistic people, (even those with horrifying prophesies I assume), do have hopes and dreams and feelings about things. The one peek we get into Helaena's life is at the in episode 8 when she roasts Aegon and even that scene is open to interpretation (and gets taken wildly out of context). Now, I can read a lot into the actor performances, but ultimately, lines that could have given a glimpse Helaena personality were cut. It's as if they're afraid that if they give her an opinion on anything she would lose that (frankly kind of infantilizing) "pure cinnamon roll too good for this world" "i would die for her" sympathy from people who are not inclined to be sympathetic for her family as a whole.

(And anon, you're right about Larys. And let me say, turning Larys' clubfoot into the punchline of an OnlyFeet joke also does not inspire confidence that they'll handle Aegon II's eventual disability with any sensitivity either, especially when Mushroom's accounts of his last few months are incredibly mean spirited. We need to start that discourse now so they get the memo).

Sadly, I don't think the show really has any intention of course correcting with Helaena in season 2. I imagine at most we'll have her try to warn Aegon and/or Aemond about Blood & Cheese but they won't understand her warning, and then this will be a vehicle to further their guilt and grief. And while we do need to see Aegon's guilt and his grief, I also want to know if Helaena blames herself, if she wishes they'd run away when they had the chance, if she thinks Aegon could have done something, if she is angry at Aemond for killing Luke, if she wants revenge. I do think, with the public funeral for Jaehaerys, they are going to show that the smallfolk are fond of Helaena, and hopefully that will be expanded upon this season and in season 3 because her death is the catalyst for the revolt that sees Rhaenyra driven from the city, and we should understand why her death has such an impact before she actually dies.

[raviposting]

You know, considering the story they’ve been writing this past season I can’t say that I hated the GOT finale, and had it been better written, I would even say that I loved it. However, everything they did - it made sense to me, but in terms of how it could have gone, how it would make sense if it were developed -with a few rewrites, of course, particularly focusing on Bran and Dany, and the importance (or lack of importance) for Jon. 

It’s important to note that both Bran and Dany have the same vision - this is, to the best of my knowledge, the only one shared by two characters in the show. And, we finally get to see that vision in the show (not exactly the same, sure, but ultimately the same scene). Dany is the before - what causes the Red Keep destruction, the pain and overall foreboding that is just drenched in that whole atmosphere, though she doesn’t understand that when she sees it, both in the vision and real life. Bran also doesn’t understand why he sees the Mad King, or the throne - it is, after all, seemingly unrelated to his NK storyline, except his story isn’t supposed to end there. Bran is the after, the vision is shared by the person that causes the events and the person who will fix it. 

Bran being king. I’m going to be honest, while my first thought was that it was dumb, on further thought I do think it makes sense, and that it’s beautiful in a way. The two things that are first introduced to us in the story are: white walkers, and then Bran’s POV. It’s fitting to end the story on someone who is so heavily entwined in the white walker storyline, and who opened up our entire story. It was initially going to be his story, and it was, in a way, because our boy who thought he could never be important or useful because of his disability is king. And he can see everything that has ever happened and is happening - he can scope out people trying to betray the kingdom, learn from the past to work towards a future. It makes sense. But, the show didn’t earn this. The very same character they made king they also cut out of an entire season because they didn’t know what to do with him. Instead, they skipped his training arc, vaguely explained his Night King connection, and then forced Bran to become emotionless for the rest of the series. In season 8, they just seemed to lean into the meme and had Bran stare at others and make one-liners and that...was really it? Bran Stark, who had an entire arc regarding the dead, becoming almost omniscient, and such complex and important emotions about his usefulness now that he’s disabled is just....staring at people from afar and warging into birds for unspecified reasons. 

But I’ve seen theories that he’s the Night King and - to fit that into him being the ruler of the kingdoms, well...what if fate were changed? Let’s say that Bran remains the same, character-wise, until the Battle of Winterfell. It’s because he’s worked out what the audience has worked out - he is the Night King. It’s the only thing that makes sense, right? He caused this to happen, just as he caused Hodor to happen. Bran goes back in time to try and warn the Mad King, but he messes up. The thought gets planted to use wildfire, but in Aerys’s mind it’s to kill King’s Landing, who are now the monsters in his mind. Bran goes back farther to try and fix his mistakes and then wargs into the man who would become the Night King. And, people say how then the NK could kill Bran right before Arya (or Jon, as expected) kill the NK, thus trapping Bran in his warg and solidifying him becoming the NK and everything going full circle. And in this version, we’re sure of that, and Bran becomes sure of that - he’s been told he can’t escape destiny, that everything is written, and this has to follow that. 

But what if it didn’t? 

Bran wargs, and is trapped, and becomes the Night King. He closes himself off, he’s spent centuries confined to this fate, and he just needs to kill his original body and ensure that things happen as they’re meant to. He almost forgets how he used to look, and he goes after each Three-Eyed Raven, until finally he gets to himself and is determined to just carry out destiny. But then, something happens. His original body never dies. Arya kills the NK, whoever he had become, and Bran is back and he suddenly realizes that he was so sure he was going to tie fate together, make everything full circle, and now he’s here back in his body and there is a future that’s going to happen for him and for once he isn’t sure what that’s going to be. Bran goes from being sure that he has to play at something else - the Three Eyed Raven, the Night King, and now he is suddenly hit with the fact that he’s Bran again and he starts letting himself feel again. He may have these powers but no matter what form he takes he’s now back to being Bran and he’s suddenly no longer so sure of himself and we see uncertainty, we see him going back to the same question he asked Jaime - how do you know there is an afterwards? Bran starts thinking about what he’s caused - with Dany’s life, causing her father to go mad, the cycle that he caused as the NK, and everything that occurred without him (after all by this point, he’s seen men thousands of times over ignore real danger in favor of their egos, all without any of Bran’s involvement). And Bran starts thinking about what he can do, how he can stop a cycle from occurring and if he can. 

Dany going mad could happen simultaneously while Bran is having his journey. Again, something I could easily see, and I thought I had seen signs of madness in the past. And Tyrion’s conversation with Jon? About how you just keep rooting with her because you have to, because there’s a clear line and then it just gets harder and harder but she’s still technically right and now there’s the line that she’s crossed? I thought that was an excellent commentary on Dany. It’s exactly what I think of her and her character...except we didn’t see that progression. Tyrion himself named clear-cut examples and then jumped to what we see in the show - Dany going from that to child murder. We should have had at least a whole season to go into Dany’s madness, see her continue to make more morally grey choices until King’s Landing, and see her so utterly convinced she was right because she’s been right before, why should it be different now? To see her actually rule would have been amazing - see that she wants to make a better place while simultaneously having her being a tyrant, no matter how unintentionally. Maybe even have her find out about what Bran did, and have her resent him for planting the thought in her father’s head, because it makes things all the more complicated - we don’t necessarily know who’s in the right for that. Nobody really is, they all messed up, but it would fit in with Dany thinking that anyone who’s against her is an enemy and with Sansa and Arya not kneeling and finding out Bran unintentionally caused everything with the Mad King - even if Robert’s rebellion were to still have happened, Dany would still view it as yet another reason the Starks were out to get her. Add it all up and there’s more conflict and reasoning to have her go against them. 

Have the conversation with Tyrion and Jon, how much they both love her in their own way, how they know that she is good at her core and that she has so much love to give but that it does not change the fact that they need to do what is right even if it is terrible. But don’t do it in the episode where she dies. Have it the season of, or the episode before. Jon gets the POVs for half the time during this season in this version of events. We see him struggling, trying to figure out how much Dany would be willing to give. We see Sansa’s POV with Dany, with Jon silently watching every interaction that Dany has with Sansa or Arya. Give that morality question to them then, and focus on Dany on her death episode. Let her have her point of view that we have grown to know, how she thinks of things, how sure she is that she is doing things the right way and that this, this will bring a better world! Let us see it from her point of view rather than two men discussing her disintegrating mental state that occurred within an episode. 

With that, with another season and with an even split between Jon and Dany’s POVs, we get to see the real descent into madness for Dany and Jon’s struggle between his identities - his Stark and Targaryen one. Because I don’t care if Jon becomes king or not, I don’t even care about him being Azor Ahai or not. I actually rather like him giving a big fuck you to destiny and going off the be king beyond the wall, essentially. Because that’s what this is, a fuck you to destiny - Bran gets to be the king, Dany tried to follow a destiny and failed, and despite everything stacked making Jon out to be the hero Jon finally puts his foot down and says fuck being Aegon Targaryen fuck people constantly forcing him to be the “ultimate hero”, he chooses his family, his real family who he’s been raised with and will protect when it comes down to anything, even the woman he loves, and then he looks at his two identities when all is said and done and decides that he wants to stay Jon Snow and be where he’s seemed the most at home so far in the books and the show, and goes off to the North. Because Jon being a Targaryen doesn’t make him special. Jon being Azor Ahai doesn’t make him special. Jon being a Stark, no matter how much we all love his Starkness and his familial bonds, even that doesn’t matter. None of those names or destinies matter, because like Sansa said a season ago, Jon is Jon. That is why Jon is important, because no matter what hero or name gets put onto him, he will do what is right, genuinely right, and then at the end his reward is that he’s allowed to not be the ultimate hero, which is what Jon wants. 

I know it’s not perfect, and that obviously it’d depend on them having had written an extra season (and not cut Bran out of an entire one) but thinking about how it could have been makes me think that there’d have been more emotion with that, just keeping everything the same but adding to it so that the emotional payoff feels earned rather than cheap, and made people at least slightly less bitter about the way these three ended off. 

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Hello Irascible about the blackfyres I remember a theory Maelys tried to wipe out all his relatives permanently burning their bridges by sacking Tyrosh their old palace and killing any he could find with the name. Your thoughts?

Hello, clear! Thanks for the question, and the patience you showed in waiting for my answer :)

I remember a similar theory that has Maelys kill the other male Blackfyres and frankly, I think it’s incorrect. Yandel has a vested interest in depicting the Blackfyres as irredeemable monsters, and Maelys gets a double dose of dehumanization for also being disabled (having the two heads caused by troubles in his mother’s womb). Yandel brings up Maelys’ killing of Captain-General Daemon Blackfyre in combat as proof of “his savage nature;” fetus!Maelys is also demonized for “consuming his twin in the womb” which is something he had no control over; surely if he had killed more male Blackfyres, Yandel would’ve mentioned that to discredit him (and his family to a lesser extent) as violent warmongers even further. Thus I believe Captain-General Daemon was the only relative Maelys killed; the rest of the male Blackfyres may have been killed in battle, taken vows of celibacy via joining the Faith, or even taken on their wives’ names (as Tyrosh is somewhat implied to be matrilineal considering their city structure) which is why Maelys is called the last one. I might also add that Maelys killing all of the Blackfyres doesn’t make much sense from a dynastic standpoint because he had no heirs of his body; considering that Maelys may very well have been infertile and there is no mention of him being married, he would’ve needed to adopt one of his Blackfyre relatives if he was serious about pressing his claim (tbh there’s no firm evidence that he was; since the title Maelys I could’ve meant Stepstone king and he never got the chance to reach Westeros before dying). I dislike the “Maelys killed all the Blackfyres” theory because it demonizes both the Blackfyres and Maelys (again, a disabled man) in particular; anti-Blackfyre people often spread theories like these in order to justify the Targaryen’s brutal treatment of their family (violating the most ancient laws of hospitality and kinship in their culture just to kill these men). Maelys is the focal point of these theories because he’s the only Blackfyre we know of who is canonically ultra-violent, and is repeatedly dehumanized in canon in an incredibly ableist manner.

I’d like to make an important note about Tyrosh under the cut:

Tyrosh is the only one of the Quarrelsome Daughters to have never been conquered or sacked (until Maelys and the Band of Nine in 258AC). Despite Yandel telling us that arms are less respected than trade in Tyrosh, he has shown that island has a strong history of martial pursuits; it was founded as a military outpost; its male citizens are scattered throughout the known world as both sailors and sellswords. The Volantenes conquered Lys and Myr with ease during the Century of Blood, but the Tyroshi resisted their rule with the help of the Pentoshi (and Lord Aegon Targaryen plus King Argilac Durrandon) and in so doing caused the collapse of the Empire of Volantis. Furthermore, despite “six years of hard fighting” the forces fighting to restore the Archon only won after Alequo Adarys’ wife poisoned her husband, and this was long after his allies in the Band of Nine were defeated.You mean to tell me that this martially-inclined city, who fought off a mighty empire for over a century when its sister cities spent 200 years under its rule, and who had the fortifications to withstand a 6-year siege without allies and was only liberated due to the assassination of the enemy leader by his own wife, was defeated in less than a year by a few pirate fleets and sellsword companies? Yeah, I don’t buy it. I believe with Tyrosh’s defenses and island position, it would’ve been nearly impossible to take it by sea…without inside help, that is. This theory is obviously veering into headcanon territory, but I believe Maelys and the Golden Company, due to keeping some aspects of Westerosi culture, were anti-slavery and promised to outlaw slavery if the slaves helped take the city. These slaves, three times the size of the free population, formed the basis of the Adarys’ regime’s support.

Alequo Adarys (I’m not going to say that Adarys was undoubtedly a Blackfyre, although he was clearly had a Valyrian name) was called “the Tyrant,” which considering the ancient Greek/Roman/Phoenician-inspired culture of Tyrosh, likely just meant he was an influential opportunist who claimed ultimate power in the polis by unconventional means (read: he was not ““elected”” by the wealthiest men of the city). In particular, tyrants had the support of the lower classes who preferred them to the aristocrats, and often maintained control through foreign mercenaries. (Plato’s Republic even describes the tyrant as removing the elites thus filling his council with mercenaries and freedmen. oh no!) The idea that Maelys and Alequo Adarys had the support of the Tyroshi freedmen and slaves makes sense to me since the Faith considers slavery an abomination (even in canon-era, the Golden Company does not support slavery and allows known slave fugitives to join their ranks) and it’s likely that the Westerosi exiles had to marry into the Tyroshi middle class for rebellions like Maelys’ to continue. It’s also an interesting counterpoint to Dany’s quest to free the slaves in Slaver’s Bay; why do we see the abolition as heroic when spearheaded by a pretty teenaged girl, but it becomes tyrannical and ultra-violent when a disabled middle-aged man does?

[dachi-chan25]

Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 5 Recap Pt. 2

WARNINGS: SPOILERS; not a D@€n€e¥$ fan; Jonsa shipper (and proud)

———— 3- In King’s Landing Jaime is trying to talk Cersei out of fighting, he watched some awful shit I can’t blame him, I mean they were against 1 dragon and it was a massacre, they don’t stand a chance with the 3 D has, he says all this stuff plus the fact that the Scorpion wasn’t able to harm the Dragon. But Cersei is having none of this, she knows if she gives up the throne it would mean dying and she would rather die fighting than handing over the throne (damn she is truly insane).

A truth bomb is dropped on Cersei when Jaime suggests Tyrion could intercede for them with D (LMAO dude D is unlikely to listen but whatevs) Cersei is like oh yeah he loves us so much he killed our son and our daddy, Jaime is like no he didn’t, Cersei is like dude you saw the crossbow what-? Jaime is like LOL no I meant he totally killed dad, but he didn’t kill Joffrey it was Olenna she told me so after she was sure to die in a painless way. Cersei is absolutely pissed off and she regreats ever listening ro Jaime in having compassion for an old lady.

4.- D and Drogon are back in DS, Jon is once again using the incest fur and looking too damn hot for someone who is scared shitless. Anyway in a moment of bravery or Targaryensness he takes of his glove and pets the beast.

D is looking impressed and kinda turned on (same) so she dismisses her son and is like aren’t they beautiful? Jon is like yeah not the word I would use for them *D glares at him* oh no I meant they are glorious beasts don’t kill me pls… And she is like idgaf if people think they monsters they still my babies (I have dogs and I kinda relate to idc if they animals I Love them but dude she uses them to kill people my babies just lick your face like no) and Jon tries not to look repulsed, instead he asks how things went and D says she has fewer (oh yes I learnt from Stannis too) enemies now and she guesses from Jon’s expression he doesn’t know how to feel about it (oh dear I think he knows how that makes him feel but he would never say it to your face,he is your prisioner that wants to get out of DS alive) and compares her butchering of the Lannister-Tarly army to Jon and Sansa retaking their home form the Boltons, well if you want to make that parallel then yes but you are the Bolton’s D you are trying to take control of a place that doesn’t be long to you just like the Bolton’s took WF, also let’s not forget Jon told the Bolton-Karstark-Umbers soldiers they didn’t had to die needlessly (a chance to yield) for a coward like Ramsey, so no.

And D is like super excited to know about the dagger to the heart thing (OMG we can be the super magical speshul couple) and Jon is like LOL Davos is a drama queen, D doesn’t seem to believe it but we are Lucky cuz Jon doesn’t have to explain himself now that Jorah is here to distract and kiss the ground D steps on, he falls on his knees (I know he is in Love but he is too over the top for me sorry) and D is genuinely happy to have him back (they have a very good chemistry) amd Jon is just there like Hey dude met your father and he was the best, but he is clearly uncomfortable like in every scene he shares with D.

We are almost at the end of the season and I still don’t see any interest from Jon’s side.

5.- Bran is in the Godswood, he wargs into a raven and goes beyond the wall, he sees the NK and the NK sees him, he goes back (or his mind?spirit? Does) and tells Maester Wolkan they need to send ravens.

Honestly I wished there was more about Bran than saying the WW are coming towards Eastwatch, we already knew that, that’s why Tormund decided to go there with the Wildling army.

6- Back on the Citadel, the ArchMaesters are having a reunion and Sam is eavesdropping, they don’t believe a word from Bran, amd Sam is like he is saying the truth ffs how do you think a crippled boy survived that long beyond the wall he must be something special, and he has seen them, but the acrhmaesters think it’s a ploy from D so everyone goes south and she can take the IT (dudes she is not so clever) Sam gets out very angry and frustrated while the assholes talk and mock about other prophesies that never happened, and one of the Maester is like isn’t he the boy whose family got bbq by the Dragon Queen, and Slughorn is like yes but I don’t have the heart to tell him yet he is a good boy.

Fuckkkkkk! He deserves to know!! Also Jorah deserves to know precious Kaliisi killed the family of the man that risked his life to save him.

7.- Back on DS Tyrion is drinking again, and has a heart to heart with Varys, let’s say the Master of Whispers is not so sure D is the best option after all, Tyrion is trying so hard to convince himself D did what any good ruler would do and that she is not any worse at the very least (dude I Love living in denial but you are not helping your cause at all) and Varys gives us am insight of what was like working for Aerys and Watch him burn people while dissasociating and saying it was not his doing (oh yes dude but you did nothing to stop him, you just stood there even Tyrion tried to intervene) Tyrion goes into defensive mode about she is not her father (and look I know she was the first ruler to recognize his abilities and give him an important place without mocking his disability like his family and the rest of Westeros did and that is hard to see someone you admire become the bad guy I understand Tyrion) he is right, she is not Aerys… Yet, but she is getting dangerously close to perpetuating all the Targ bullshit her ancestors loved (I insist she is more of an Aegon the Conqueror, not that that is a good thing either, but she isn’t mad, which is more terrifying that a non- paranoic person would do such awful stuff and still think she is in the moral high ground)

Anyway Varys is like seriously dude you GOT to make her listen, and Tyrion is dejected. Varys is holding a letter for Jon, if you didn’t believe he is a prisioner in that fucking island yet that is the proof, he gets his letters intercepted!!

We transition to the war room (Jon pls don’t touch that table, ew) he is dudes my little brother and little sister that I thought dead are Back home and WW are matching towards Eastwatch I’m outta here, D is like oh good your siblings are fine, but I won’t give you any military support cuz Cersei will keep sitting on MY chair if I do nevermind that everyone in the North will die in the meantime, and Tyrion is like but we can also get Cersei’s help if we bring her a WW (gosh this idiot plan) and Jorah is like yup I’m ready to boggie, and Jon is like *sigh* me too, Davos is in protective dad mode and goes like you aren’t going beyond the wall young man you are King!! But Jon is like dad all my friends are going and I am the only one who has fought WW so… D is giving serious heart eyes at Jon, and says she hasn’t given him permission to go (LMAO is this twilight or 50sog??? In what universe is romantic for someone to hold you captive and defensless??) and Jon gives her the metaphorical middle finger and takes away her unburnt title with his response of LOL nobody asked for your permission I am King! Still he remains fairly respectful and ask her to trust him just like he trusted her (LOL but she betrayed that trust holding you captive, taking your boat and your sword but whatevs they really need her help so I understand why Jon still is mindfull). ——- Part 3 is coming!