#humans need community and connection but we don't all need monogamous romance

[likeabxrdinflight]

One of my many supervisors today made mention of how a failure to achieve a monogamous romantic relationship could be considered a failure to thrive...I tried to push back a little and say it's more the lack of community at all that's the bigger issue but oof...

I would appreciate it if the entire world could stop being so subtly shaming of people for not following the social scripts we're "supposed" to. It's not a "failure to thrive" to be single. It isn't pathological to not have a monogamous relationship.

[starlightomatic]

hiiiii flying in with a hot take

so many people in the poly community talk about wanting to live communally with their polycule, like either in a big house or what someone i'm in a facebook group with just coined as courtyard poly -- separate houses but on the same block, or on some sort of large parcel of land

no don't get me wrong i love all of this. humans were not meant to live in isolated little pods.

but here's the thing

when i envision this for myself i envision that of the other people im living with (if it's one big house) or alongside (if it's separate units in a communal building or on communal land) some may be partners, but most are platonic friends and community members

so its not that i dislike that polycule living or courtyard poly concepts

its just that they're amatonormative as fuck

it's frustrating to me that we're able to deconstruct the concepts of the nuclear family, monogamy, etc yet we can't deconstruct the concept of "you need to be romantically connected to the other adults in your living space" and it's annoying that we're able to decouple all the things monogamous culture tells us are linked -- we're able to understand that relationships can fluctuate between romantic and platonic, that love is valuable without lifelong commitments, that a comet relationship is valuable, that coparenting and and being in a relationship aren't the same thing and can be planned not to be the same thing -- but somehow we can't deconstruct the idea that living together intentionally needs to equal romance

[roselightfairy]

I dunno if this adds to or detracts from your point, but I wanted to build on this with some thoughts I have (as someone who has done some Jedi shipping but also shares a lot of your feelings!)...

For me, all Jedi relationships are only really interesting if they are queer, and that is a word I use in the intentional sense of non-normative/outside of specific cultural expectations. In the case of shipping, though I do enjoy reading Jedi smooching each other and/or loving each other deeply (sometimes both at the same time!), nothing raises my eyebrow faster than the introduction of any kind of commitment/life-bond that is the equivalent of a marriage. This is exactly what Anakin was canonically not allowed to do, and I think it's fair to assume that in a culture whose idea is that you don't love anything more than you love your cause (or, religiously, your connection to the Force), a life/marriage bond would not be something you'd expect from a relationship.

Similarly, expectations of monogamy feel very contrary to my understanding of Jedi ideals. It feels like possessiveness or jealousy would be highly discouraged in relationships, and that suggests that even in relationships with sexual (or romantic, if you can argue that "romance" is possible in this kind of aspec queerness) components, the expectation of monogamy would not be there. It might still be a preference on the part of the people themselves, but it wouldn't be a cultural expectation. I do think jealousy and possessiveness are emotions that would still be experienced (as we see in Star Wars, the Jedi Code isn't enough to train out basic human emotion), but they would probably be managed and addressed in very different ways. I don't think this precludes monogamous relationships, but it does mean that they would likely look very different.

So, to build on this, I actually have a similar squick regarding Jedi relationships being equated to parent-child or siblings, because the whole point of removing people from their biological families is not to recreate the nuclear family but to create a new form of support system that in some ways acts as a family and in some ways doesn't. Generally, Jedi receive from other Jedi the things that we are expected to get from our nuclear families (protection, support in our vulnerable times, food and shelter, and an instilling of values) as well as some things we don't generally get, at least in Western society (formal education/training, employment, a sense of internal/external purpose). But there are also ways in which the Jedi institution behaves in totally the opposite way from a nuclear family - there is often an expectation, at least in certain cultural values, that parents shield their children from harm, where Jedi (particularly masters to padawans) often put young people in harm's way out of a need for training, for their personal growth, or to serve the needs of the world generally. (If I sound like a Qui-Gon apologist here, you caught me and I promise I'm duly ashamed.)

For me, at least, the thing that so caught me about Jedi culture was the teaching/community element to it. The idea that the strongest interpersonal bonds you tend to form are bonds of teaching and learning, masters and padawans, which is such a very specific kind of intimacy and devotion that, while equal in its intensity, manifests in a very different way on the two sides of the partnership. But also the idea that so much of this teaching and learning happens in community settings and that it is generally the explicit foundation of a culture - that is fascinating to me in how it manifests in relationships of all sorts, and I think it's part of why this fandom hit me so hard: because I was looking for this very particular flavor of queerness and found so much potential to explore it!

Anyway, sorry for rambling so much on your post - I hope this was an addition rather than a derail!

Why I, an ace human, have *feelings* about anyone shipping Jedi most of the time:

1) These are literal space monks, romantic attachment is against the code for a reason and that’s because it’s at best a distraction and at worst incompatible with the path of a Jedi. Some people will argue about this but I will not. It is what it is.

2) FAMILIAL RELATIONSHIPS are the lifeblood of a Jedi, as central as the force itself - parent figures, sibling figures, etc. they are separated from their biological families as early as possible because the Jedi *are* their family for all intents and purposes. They rely on each other, they defend each other, they fight for each other. The loyalty and commitment is real and no less fierce for not being romantic.

3) there is a prevailing idea in our culture that romantic relationships are the strongest, the deepest, and the most important. I think because of this, we ascribe romantic bonds where there are none because we think, even subconsciously, “this kind of commitment and level of intimacy is only probable inside a romantic attachment.” Not only is this bullshit, it’s insulting as fuck to those of us whose friends are the center of our lives to insinuate that our devotion or love is lesser.

Anyways people are gonna ship and that’s obviously fine, but I wish we’d talk more about this.

I have more but that’s all for now.

[bandichree]

Warning!!! Long!!!!

This doesn't really fit my blog but I just want to say that even though there can be power imbalances in straight relationships (even gay ones, I've experienced it with a past partner), they can be fixed through actual communication about needs, what you're willing to do to *help* your partner feel more willing to go that extra step, and how much you truly want the relationship to work after you realize those imbalances. Everyone is raised a certain way, and it's no more an adult's fault the ingrained mindsets they were raised on than it is a cat's fault to want to catch a pet bird; we just have to train ourselves to be better. Sometimes we find out that it's better to move on because we just don't fit, and that's okay. But sometimes we find out that it can work, it just won't be easy.

Personally, the [m|f] "straight" relationship I'm in right now isn't perfect. There are very much imbalances, but we both recognize them and work to fix ourselves. It took a while to get to the point of realizing, but we're both human and humans don't like admitting they're wrong, it's just nature. But my [m] partner does go that extra mile a lot (literally). He has walked!! Several hours to come see me, multiple times a week. He has biked!! Over an hour everyday when he could in the past just to make sure we have 5 minutes together (and sometimes that is actually what we got). He has done all of this in rain, snow, sleet, 100° weather. He has gone the distance and then some at ridiculous hours of the night to calm me down out of panic or dysphoria and to read or sing me to sleep and to wake me out of nightmares if he hears me struggling. Even in the last couple of weeks, we have been in a long-distance relationship because of college, and through living in a brand new place with literally no grounding where he both has to form new relationships with 5 other guys and start classes he has made sure to set aside time for me between classes during the day and after I get off of work from my graveyard shift at work. He never hangs up without telling me he loves me, and he does his absolute best to get through my thick jelly skull that even though things are hard, us being together is worth it.

And as someone who has done about the same things, and am willing do to more, I am beyond sincere when I say I appreciate both our struggles and our successes. We work to be together for a future we can be proud of together.

He's not perfect, but neither am I. We've fought and argued, nearly broken up god knows how many times over both little things and huge things, and absolutely nothing has been easy since our Junior year of highschool together. But easy doesn't mean better. Nor does hard, to be clear. It's about what you want from a relationship and how you connect with others. If you feel better in a relationship that's the easiest thing you've ever done, then do that. If you like to work and earn your way into the heart of a problematic fave and work and earn them into your own problematic heart, then do that. Do what makes you happy with who makes you happy, be it gay, straight, monogamous, polygamous/polyamorous, platonically ace/aro, or anything in between and around.

If you disagree with me, that's okay. We all look at things differently and have different ideals. I'm happy in my relationship, and I hope you're happy in yours too. And if you're not there yet, don't worry. You'll find someone you vibe with romantically (or platonically if romance isn't your thing), even if it isn't easy, and things will be alright.

Men are held to such low standards in relationships and it’s infuriating; just today I heard from my co-workers that ones husband never drove to come see her when they were doing long distance, and the other’s hasn’t mowed once in their 30+ years of marriage.

Like we like fun at lesbians moving fast in relationships, but that’s because women are socialized much differently than men, and those traits lead to healthier relationships. Though gender roles are fucking wack in general, you can’t deny that women are raise to be more understanding, expressive, and caring in general. My girlfriend drives 2 hours to come see me every weekend, and my friends boyfriend can barely make the 40 minute trip to come see her.

When women are in relationships with each other, they are more likely to talk about feelings, and go farther for their partners. Women do this in hetero relationships too, but it’s rarely reciprocated if they’re with a cis male.

I read an incredible essay about how gay marriage is incredibly beneficial to straight partners, because straight relationships always have a basis in inequality, due to societal gender divisions. Gay relationships show what it’s like to have a relationship without a gender based power imbalance.

Ladies, if you wouldn’t put up with it from a best friend, don’t let a boyfriend get away with it. Cultivate a society where men in relationships have to at least have basic decency; not only through your partners, but also through how you raise your sons.