#however op seems to be talking about issues relating to hateful groups specifically so this may not be relevant.

[livemedown]

I personally agree with this, with a few exceptions (mostly proshippers. Proshippers either get upset when they see it and/or bug off, at least from my experience. If they know you're an "anti," they'll usually leave. I don't want them interacting with me, they don't want me interacting with them, it's generally a win-win).

The majority of DNIs I've seen? Absolutely worthless. That transphobe or racist isn't going to be stopped by your bio. They're gonna harass you no matter what. And if you want to express your support for minorities, there are less performative ways to do so - such as outright stating your support of trans rights or POC rights instead! It goes a long way for you to actually share support, rather than just posting a DNI list no one will read.

its 2025 now. time to get rid of "dni bad people" shit. and "basic dni criteria" too. here, i said it. it doesn't save you from interacting with people you don't like and you look performative and silly🤔

[bondsmagii]

Please give me the forbidden Goncharov discourse 👀

so for context, this comes from a post by tumblr user lastoneout that reads:

turns out tumblr does have reading comprehension and the ability to analyze a complex text through multiple frameworks and have a nuanced discussion while doing so but apparently we were all saving it up to have nuanced discussions about a fake movie with no actual text to analyze

and then my tags on the post, which read:

#this is so funny but i maintain it's the only unrealistic thing about goncharov (1973) #like you mean to tell me the fandom on tumblr is this huge and yet there's not one hate blog? #there's not a core group of haters posting the most deranged piss on the poor shit in the tag? #no discourse? no anon hate? #christ but there's not a single poc in it come on tumblr i've not seen a single person get called a racist for liking it #this is a glimpse into what peace on planet earth would look like #(ironically i do have some deep analysis for why this might be but i will spare op lmao)

now forgive me if this makes no sense, because this is the first time I have tried to articulate it before, and of course in keeping with the theme it's about a fake movie (cinematic masterpiece Goncharov, (1973) dir. Martin Scorsese).

with the obvious out of the way first: Goncharov is a fictional movie, it does not exist, and therefore there it nothing to say about the real-world issues associated with lack of representation. this means we can skip that in actuality, though if we're looking at it from the perspective of a real movie and how it would be regarded on Tumblr, I'm sure that there would be related discourse. however, this is not real, so we can focus on the more entertaining, light-hearted sides of fandom. and this is universally what Goncharov posts were like: gifsets, fanart, humorous and well-written textual analysis, deep and pretentious photosets and quotes, everything that you love to see. but it was odd, in terms of realism, that there were no haters at all. which made me wonder: why are there haters when it comes to real things, but not when it comes to fake ones? part of this is what's mentioned above: in real life, there are some dynamics and trends and issues that can and do have a very real impact on society, or represent aspects of society that should change. but I can't help think it was something else, too.

I mentioned in my tags hate blogs specifically, because in real fandoms, you can easily find hate blogs that have absolutely nothing to do with any real, tangible criticism. it is just vitriolic hate: of a character, of a book/film, of an actor or actress involved, or some combination of these. there's no actual criticism, and very often there are massive feats of mental gymnastics used to make fans of [character] or [thing] look bad. it is just seething hatred, all directed towards something that is supposed to be entertainment; it's supposed to be fun! so why do some people take something harmless and make their entire personalities about hating it -- as well as spending significant parts of their day talking shit, getting into arguments, and even sending anon hate and threats to fans? it's because there are some people out there who like to hate things. they don't seem to like having fun. anything fun that comes their way, they have to pick holes in it; they have to have something negative to say to it. deep down, they know this is a very sad way to live. they know there's a difference between being a casual hater who likes to bitch about things in private with friends, or make the occasional joke or rant online -- and running a literal blog dedicated to hating something. they know there's a difference and they don't want to admit that they're losers, so they dress it up as something noble. these days, it's usually activism. this also explains the mental gymnastics, the reaches, the "fans of [character] are -ist or -phobic" shit. they're applying a thin coat of legitimacy to the fact that they're irrationally angry about something completely pointess, and there are a lot of people out there who seem to think this is a good and beneficial way to spend their time.

even among fans, there are some who seem to be having a bad time. I have looked at certain posts or blogs before and wondered to myself if the person even actually likes it, or if at this point they're just hostage to nostalgia or the idea of it (either the potential or their fan version of the universe) and they can't just call it quits. these people are not the same as the previously described, as they don't make their whole lives about hating something, but they're clearly miserable and could do with moving on, and they do contribute to the kinds of critical and often aggressive posts missing from the Goncharov project. the absence of this, as well as the more unhinged hatred, does leave a pretty obvious gap in the believability of the film's existence, and this is... rather depressing, really.

the thing that allowed Goncharov to be a peaceful experience was because of the fact that it wasn't real, and everyone knew it. but this should be applied to all films and books: they are not real. while some criticisms are valid (such as the terrible writing that female characters are often subject to, or the lack of representation in popular cinema, etc) a lot of the hate comes from interpersonal beef about characters, and these people aren't real. it's a very strange thing to witness: that so many people are capable of understanding that Goncahrov and Katya etc aren't real, and therefore there's no point getting mad about them, but they cannot carry that over to any other fictional character. the film's unreality is part of the joke, woven into it from the foundations, and so no hater, no matter how deranged, could possibly take themselves seriously hating it. instead they have to resort to complaining about the joke itself, and how annoying it is, but the content remains completely hater-free. it's an absolutely fascinating glimpse at the complete breakdown of the line between reality and fiction on this website -- Goncharov came from within, and its construction and creation was there for all to see, whereas other media seems to spring to the consumer fully formed and therefore with some kind of mystery that awards it a certain flair of legitimacy. I don't mean to say that anyone thinks it's real, but certainly they seem to think it's more serious, and worth getting worked up over. but none of it is real, none of it is worth getting worked up over, but for some reason it seems that when a creation comes from one's peers, this mystery is removed and the complete pointlessness and inanity of getting into fights online over fictional characters and events is illuminated in all its glory.

[casijaz]

Xenophobia is not racism part 24,450 - Electric Boogaloo

@angelina-galkina you have so much to say so I’ll just put your argument right here and comment on it.

I am putting this under a read more tag for all my followers. If you’re interested, please read.

Angelina, your English seems to be well enough for you to understand my original posts, so I figure you will be able to understand me now. I am also not a native English speaker, so if there is miscommunication between us do tell me.

angelina-galkinaheeft gereageerd op je bericht “On Xenophobia and Racism”

Actually, the reason Europeans hate Slavs is because they think Slavs are Asians or all mixed with Asians. Slavs were seen as low as blacks people on the Nazi “racial hierarchy” scale. It was because Slavs were not considered white, (which was decided by those white European men you mentioned earlier who classified race.) They think Slavs are “secretly asian” or something like that. To be specific, manyyyyy Russian Slavs are mixed with central asian/ middle eastern at this point.

In Poland and Ukraine, the white nationalists there (like you said, there are a lot) dont consider Russian Slavs white (I am a Siberian Yup’ik, so don’t think I’m getting defensive, I’m not white lol) Russian Slavs experience xenophobia, and that xenophobia is rooted in racism in Europe. In America, the hate of Russians is rooted in dumb political reasons.

When I say that the xenophobia against Slavs in Europe is rooted in racism, I mean to say that they hate Slavs because Slavs aren’t white to them. Again, many Slavs are only partially white (so I guess they are only partly Slav?) This is sort of confusing, apologies.

Also, when you say that the hate of Slavs is geographically based, that is partially true. Because Slavs are so Eastward, they have mixed many times with Central and west Asians. So it is rooted in racism, but the insult is that they are part non-white so it’s not directly racism. I just don’t like misinformation being spread.

Note: {I am from Russia, (English isn’t my first language, sorry) and I know primarily about Russian Slavs, so I am only speaking about them.} Russia is both a multi-racial/multi-ethnic country. 

angelina-galkina heeft gereageerd op je bericht “Okay non-European tumblr”

They were talking about their own issues within Europe. It had nothing to do with people of other races. They were talking about how white people hate other white people, BASED ON racism against other races. It isn’t white racist people hating other white people, it is white racist people hating on other white people who “aren’t white to them” They never said anything bad.

Let’s unpack all of this for a second.

First off all. Who do you refer to when you say Europeans? People of Slavic descent are European. If by European you mean north/west ones I can tell you as one from that area that they are definitely European. These white people do not think they are Asian. Racial discrimination against Asians is something that is experienced by a lot in my country, but not by eastern European immigrants.

“Slavs were seen as low as blacks people on the Nazi “racial hierarchy” scale. ” In my original post I said whiteness was a social construct subject to change. While Nazis have had a hand or two in defining races, the construct of race was not created by them. It was European men in the 1600s. What you are also implying is that Slavic people only experience racism by being related or in proximity to ACTUAL non-whiteness. This is a tactic that has been used a lot in the defining of racism. But let me tell you. The people they’re compared to are always off worse. Also. Don’t ever say blacks again. It’s a racist term.

I have no insight in the genetic background of all Slavic ethnic groups in Russia. However from what I could find from these studies: http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/russians.html and https://bmcgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12863-017-0578-3 is that there’s virtually little to no Asian heritage among Russian and eastern European Slavic peoples. There was almost no middle eastern genetic heritage found among these groups either. This was a study done with a group of 1000 people. You could make an argument that they misrepresented the population, but I actually have a problem with people claiming non-white heritage just for an excuse to absolve themselves of white privilege.

Xenophobia is a complex issue that IS tied to racism but is not racism. Please re-read the post I made. In Europe, xenophobia can be strengthened by racism. For example, in a lot of northern countries the south of Europe is seen as more ‘exotic.’ This is because they are in proximity to non-white countries. In the United States of America, xenophobia is not just all about ‘dumb political reasons.’ The United States of America is a former colony placed on stolen indigenous land by white Europeans from all over the place. They brought their values and systems regarding race along with them. This means Europe and the U.S. have similar systems, simply because it’s the same people who made them.

I think you’re onto something when you say ‘not white to them,’ but you need to realise that they still are white. I don’t know what your experience with racism is if you’re part of a non-white ethnic group in Russia. I can tell you my experience as mixed black person who is not white passing and lives in Europe. Whatever Slavic immigrants face for discrimination, and what I face, are completely different. Their discrimination is not nor ever based on their race. They are white. They don’t get blackface thrown in their faces. They don’t get called racial slurs. They don’t get their bodies or cultural aspects dubbed dirty or inferior on basis of their race. If they do experience discrimination it is based on the geographical history we’ve had in Europe.

What I can definitely agree on with you is that southern and eastern Europeans experience xenophobia on basis of their relation to non-whiteness on a geographical and historical basis. Many countries were colonised by the Ottoman Empire once. In the 1900s they were described as being ‘too close to the east.’ However note that I say ‘too close,’ but not ‘IN’ the east. In the 1800s while northwest European men were defining races they deemed a lot of races not quite white by relating them to races they had definitively deemed not-white. But we no longer live within the racial confines of neither the 1800s nor Nazi Germany. The racial hierarchy scale however is here to stay. It is subject to change, has been, and always will be, but there are certain groups of people whose claim to whiteness can never happen. Among them are black people.

Now to the reaction I made to the non-European Tumblr post going around! I am European! I was talking about my own issues too! These are my issues! White people hate white people because of geographical and cultural differences. They are both white. So they can’t be racist against each other. Both are at the top of the racial hierarchy. They did say something bad. When us ACTUAL non-white Europeans try talking about racism they try and hijack the conversation by stating they can’t possibly be racist because it works differently in Europe. It doesn’t. The U.S. and Europe have the same racial systems. The U.S. even has some of the same xenophobic basis for discriminating groups of people as Europe because the white population of the U.S. consists out of solely (people descended from) European immigrants.

Don’t ever tell a European of colour to not talk about their own issues. These are my issues and I will only stop talking about them when racism and xenophobia cease to exist.