#however i do think that if daniel and armand are both kept things they're kept things in two VERY different ways.

[vaperarmand]

What does he mean by "and Daniel"? What does he mean by "throughout the years"? What does he mean by that?

(He could've been referring to the books with Daniel, but I'm choosing to think he wasn't).

Also i'd probably disagree a bit with the "kept things" definition but that's beside the point here.

THIS IS SOOOO CRAZY ACTUALLY. throughout the years ..... i'm like dropping hints that my show is going to adapt the devil's minion chapter. or just do some crazy stuff where armand follows daniel around for decades after they first meet. i guess the usual interpretation of a devil's minion chapter in tv verse is that it'd end around 1985 but rather than turning him armand erases his memories. this is huge for me personally because i've been recently imagining a world in which armand maybe does this but continues to see daniel well into the 2000s. it's kind of my take in this imagining that the last time armand sees him is just before they move to dubai but god even imagining a world where armand sees him all the time. armand saw daniel in february of 2020 (valentine's day) and the only reason he didn't see him until 2022 was borders closing. and daniel doesn't remember any of it. crazy possibilities contained within "throughout the years...."

[apoptoses]

JESS i’m having louis/armand/daniel brain rot again, i wanna know your thoughts 🥺 specifically like, are there any things that armand and daniel enjoyed during their DM years that you think they might pick back up with louis at trinity gate? i feel like in my head, daniel is always kind of the third wheel (at trinity gate, at least), but i’m really fascinated by the idea of LOUIS being the one to step into their world for a change

oh man oh man, I LOVE this question!! and i have so many thoughts!!

Movies: we know Louis watches movies from how he kept showing up at Lestat's in body thief to stare at his tv lol But I think Armand and Daniel have so many inside jokes from all of the weirdo movies they used to watch, or quotes that they repeat and Louis doesn't get it. So I think they'd really enjoy sitting him down and subjecting him to the Worst Hits of Armand's Movie Phase.

And Daniel especially would enjoy the validation that some of these are fuckin terrible films LOL They could mind gift back and forth about how insipid Louis finds the plot until Daniel is sitting there choking back laughter because finally, someone who agrees Time Bandits isn't that funny.

Video Games: I don't mean modern console games, I mean like classic arcade games and pinball machines. Which Armand probably has a whole room of them in the basement somewhere, lovingly restored and in perfect condition. And I think Louis would be a little hesitant- he seems like the type who acts 'above' certain things just because if he tries it and sucks at it he'll feel humiliated. But even he can't resist the siren call of PacMan and eventually he's knocked them both down on the scoreboard and taken the top spot.

(Also they like to go out a lot so sometimes they end up at like, Dave n Busters LOL Which is far more contentious because ugh, it's noisy and tacky and smells like that radioactive 'cheese' mortals cover their nachos with. But your jock!Louis headcanons have bewitched me and I think they could soothe him by getting him to shoot hoops on the basketball game)

Going Out-Out: Louis is such a homebody when left to his own devices and now that they've got Trinity Gate, home to whatever vampires want to stop by, what's the point in spending time among mortals?

So they'd ease him in with some random one-off classes ("Come, Louis, we've an appointment to learn to make fresh pasta tonight" "Yeah, I know, what's the point when we don't eat, just don't argue with him, it'll be fun" And you know what? It is). And then they'd take him to random stuff from the meetup app (or not so random, because both of them know Louis wouldn't be able to resist debating strangers at a weekly book club).

And then they're back to running around strange apartment buildings to meet up and coming artists, and accepting invites to follow their classmates down to a local bar, and crashing the sets of night shoots around New York. It goes better when it's the three of them because when someone is over it and ready to go home there's no obligation to stay and keep their partner company. No pressure to do anything but enjoy existing together out in the world for a few hours.

Special mentions:

board games (the more obscure the better)

travel (this time Louis and Daniel are more mentally present lol)

letting armand play sugar daddy and picking their outfits for the ballet (which leads to some altercations that have armand feeling like that post about 'help my subs have unionized')

weird 70s/80s craft nights (louis ends up gifting his tie dye shirt to lestat, armand and daniel send theirs to marius)

'treasure hunting' aka scamming the wealthy out of their art collections (louis doesn't care about the value, he does however feel some righteous indignation over important historical pieces being kept in vaults as some tech bro's 'investment'; daniel is just happy to finally understand how armand does it, and take part in it himself)

abusing kitchen gadgets (doesn't matter who you are, playing 'will it blend' can catch the fascination of even the most arrogant, erudite vampires)

[gildatheplant]

I totally understand the concern here, as I became a huge Devil's Minion shipper over the course of the show, but I do think the turning 'out of spite' thing is intentionally misleading. Rolin loves to play with his wording and the more I look at what he said and the context... the way he says "clearly made him out of spite,” and “It looks like it was really not a great moment" (emphasis mine) to me is a major hint that appearances are deceiving. There's also the time jump to consider. We don't yet know when or why Armand turned Daniel. We also don't know when or why Armand seemingly left him. It's all purposely kept in the dark at the moment.

I believe they're currently trying to imply that Armand turned Daniel in Dubai, shortly after Louis left. However, based on what the cast has said in other interviews, particularly Assad and Eric's hints at future romance/sexy times, and Rolin's wording in the above quotes, I truly believe that's not actually the case. I can only imagine the exact details of what goes down, but I strongly suspect that Armand will actually let Daniel leave Dubai...and will only turn him when Daniel is on his death bed. Perhaps we won't see the turning because it will be obscured somehow (I can picture shadows behind hospital curtains for instance). Or perhaps when Rolin said we won't see 'that moment' of turning he means the 'that' literally, as in it won't look like the books or it won't be in Dubai, but we'll see a twist to it.

Also, to address the Raglan James stuff, it's obvious that when Daniel outs Armand's lies to Louis, Raglan assumes one of the vampires is going to kill him. He tells Daniel to "GET OUT OF THERE", yet his fear is seemingly for nothing as Louis takes out his rage only on Armand. Raglan has mentioned before that other interviewers have been killed, the Talamasca has a huge list of both Louis and Armand's victims, yet Daniel is spared. This proves to Raglan that Daniel is special and someone to watch.

That said, I fully believe that the vampire Daniel we see at the end is Daniel. His personality and relationship with Louis seems too genuine to be anyone else. I actually think his eyes are violet but change colour when he gets emotional. Because the lighting is dark, it's hard to see a difference between blue and violet, especially when his eyes changing is so much more dramatic. Armand's eyes vibrate when he's upset/using powers, Louis and Lestat's pupils grow huge when they're upset/using powers, so there's some precedence for Daniel's eyes changing.

Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I hope this all makes sense and is maybe even a bit comforting for those who are concerned. I truly trust the actors and writers, especially Assad and Eric when it comes to Devil's Minion.

My thoughts about Devil's Minion right now after Rolin Jones' comments (spoilers):

A meta so thorough, that I first wrote in a post/reply elsewhere, I'm putting it into a separate post, (with some more added to it), just because. And especially since I know I've gotten a lot of followers over the course of Season 2 because of my Devil's Minion posts as well, and I want this all in a separate, individual post for quick reference, just in case.

Fair warning: if you are totally happy and fine about what happened -- i.e. how Armand turned Daniel -- then yeah, what I am going to say here isn't for you. I'm not trying to harsh anyone's vibe, especially if you are just happy that Daniel is a vampire now, okay? This is just about how I feel and see things about it at the moment (particularly regarding RJs comments about it). So if you're not up for criticism, critique, as well as speculation about Devil's Minion right now, then yeah. IMO, just skip this post, please.

Okay. So. Rolin Jones just gave an interview with The Hollywood Reporter and this is what he said about Daniel's turning by Armand:

Jones confirms that, just like in Rice’s books, Armand is the one who turns Daniel into a vampire. “Will we see that moment of turning? No, but Armand finally made a vampire and clearly made him out of spite,” he says with a laugh. “It looks like it was really not a great moment [between him and Daniel], but that connects those two characters. They will have scenes going forward, obviously.”

-- Rolin Jones, Hollywood Reporter, 06/30/24

Okay so, to start. For me, someone who has been waiting since 1995 (when I was 17) for Devil's Minion, for Armand and Daniel's relationship to finally be adapted in some way, I'll be honest. There are only two ways this can go now that I can see at the moment: either Rolin is lying/trolling to hide the truth about all of this, or he is telling the truth and this is truly the way they are going with this.

If Rolin is lying/trolling to hide something about all of this, then I'll forgive that lying/trolling instantly once it's revealed that he was. (Put a pin in this.) Having to flat-out lie or troll is sometimes par for the course when it comes to running a show and not wanting to spoil anything about what might be coming up in it. So honestly, if that's what's going on with what he said here? Meh. No skin off my nose.

If he is telling the truth, however? Then I'll have zero desire to watch the show anymore, once I see it 100% confirmed in some way with my own two eyes in some way on screen somehow. (Again, pin in this.) Because I have very much learned my lesson when it comes to TV shows and lazy writing/bad adaptations after Game of Thrones.

Because Armand turning Daniel out of spite is the antithesis of what Devil's Minion is supposed to be for both characters. It is an utter and complete misunderstanding of both characters and their relationship together. It's an utter downgrade of their relationship from the books, and I am not here for it. I literally do not care what "romance" they might later have planned for them if this is how Daniel was turned.

Look. If you are someone who only ever cared about Daniel just being a vampire, then this is all likely fine for you, and that's okay. But not me. Because Daniel being a vampire never was, or has been, the important part of Armand and Daniel's relationship. Not in my eyes and, frankly, not when it comes to the original story. Daniel becoming a vampire is not the important part of the Devil's Minion story. The actual love and romance before Daniel is turned is because it is during that part of it that the actual character development and growth both of them go through from it takes place. Especially for Armand's character.

And that only has any depth when Daniel is human and Armand is forever refusing to turn him because of his hangups about making another vampire.

And Armand finally turning Daniel out of love was a huge step that showed Armand beginning to move forward and heal -- from not only his time in the Children of Darkness cult, but begin his healing when it comes to his Marius issues as well.

Armand turning Daniel out of spite undercuts all of that. It undercuts the whole story. And flat-out guts some of the major depth of the relationship and Armand's character development overall.

Not to mention it makes Daniel no better than someone like Claudia wrt Armand turning him now. Maybe even less than her since at least Claudia got turned out of Lestat's love for someone else. Daniel doesn't even get that? The person who is supposed to be his eternal companion doesn't even get turned by him out of love, an important point to the bond between such Maker and Fledgling eternal companions, but out of hate and spite instead?

Yeah, no thank you.

This is not what I've waited since 1995 to see with these two and the fact their relationship may have gotten treated like this -- if this is true -- utterly astounds me how this show could get Loustat so right (and even upgrade them so beautifully in so many ways such as with Louis' turning) and utterly fail Devil's Minion so badly. Because yes, it's failing them. It's a terrible and, moreover, just a shallow adaptation of Devil's Minion if this is how it really all goes down.

Because there is way more to Armand and Daniel than them just Daniel being a vampire and them finally "getting together." Or at least there is supposed to be. And this ain't it.

(Pin!) Now, with that all said? The fact that Rolin flat out says that we'll never see Armand turning Daniel? Yeah okay, I'm sus on that one. Because really. The only reason not to show Armand turning Daniel next season -- and visually confirm that Armand did it -- is if because . . . Armand never actually turned Daniel in the first damn place.

Or, if he did, it maybe was not fully Daniel.

I mean, you're not going to ever actually show Armand turning his first-ever fledgling (who he's supposed to go on to have a romantic relationship with at some point) after making a big ass deal out of the fact that Armand has never turned anyone before? Ever?

See I know damn well that Armand is being framed as a villain right now. He very much has to be given how the end of the book IWTV and how the upcoming book The Vampire Lestat, goes. Armand is the main villain/antagonist in it. Even in the present day, it is clear Armand hasn't gone yet gone through all of the growth that he does from Queen of the Damned on. So he's still back in his villain-era mode right now. And his post-breakup with Louis mode in the present day. Which is fine, it's how his story -- and the story where it is right now -- goes. I am thoroughly okay with that.

And the very idea that Armand turned Daniel out of spite? Very much plays into that framing-him-as-a-villian state where Armand's character is right now. And will be for the majority of Season 3, which I've already before now suspected and said.

So here is where the speculation on my end of things comes in. Because yeah, not only can I not help myself but because -- until I see this play out with my own eyes -- I'm willing to be reasonable and look at the various ways this all could still play out that doesn't completely gut out the very heart of Armand and Daniel -- as characters and their relationship together. (Or at least not have it be so damn shallow by the end when they inevitably get and stay together.)

So as @nalyra-dreaming can confirm, I gave her a few scenarios that could be behind Daniel's turning weeks ago, when I first suspected it was going to happen (before the screener leaks about it started). In one of the scenarios, I said that if Daniel's vampire eyes are any color other than violet, then that is NOT Daniel's spirit/soul/consciousness in Daniel's body that has been made a vampire.

As the saying goes, "The eyes are the window into the soul." And am I really supposed to think this show got Lestat and Louis' eye color dead on correct but just missed Daniel's iconic eye color? Really? (Because no, I do not find it romantic that Daniel has his Maker's eye color, or whatever. Besides, vampire eye color doesn't even work like that -- the show didn't even do that with Louis and Lestat who are the main, grand romantic couple of the damn show.)

As I said here in this reblog, I stand by my opinion/theory that no way this show gets Daniel's iconic violet eye color wrong, even on accident. I said so weeks ago, before even seeing Daniel's eyes in that final shot in the season finale, and just predicting that he was going to get turned.

No way this show got Daniel's iconic eye color wrong when he became a vampire, not when they went to all the damn trouble creating those vampire contacts and gave Jacob's Louis green eyes to match book-Louis.

And yes I damn well know they could just have Daniel pop up with violet vampire eyes in the Season 3 premiere and there goes all of that, and it really was all just laziness, incompetence, and a mistake when it came to the color of Daniel's eyes in the finale. But right now? I'm treating Daniel's eye color as the equivalent of Rolin saying "Lelio is so boring!" as to the question of why Sam's Lestat was playing Harlequin and not Lelio in the Season 2 theater flashbacks. Something the show changed on purpose and for a reason.

Because we all damn well know that we are going to see Sam's Lestat as Lelio in Season 3, correct? Because we are.

And yes. I know some people really hate the idea of a body swap scenario regarding Daniel, but I'm sorry. At this point, it really is the only scenario out of this whole storyline that I can see right now, that will keep it anywhere close to retaining the heart of the Devil's Minion storyline, especially if Armand really did turn Daniel out of spite here (even though, again, we'll apparently never see that turning to confirm that in full. Uh-huh, okay.).

And two things that I think do set up the possibility are:

1.) Louis says Daniel was turned after he left Armand alone with him. But Louis actually wouldn't know something like that unless he was told since he wasn't there. All we can really assume at the moment is that Daniel told Louis what happened after Louis left the room. And as RJ and Assad said, we'll never see the actual turning. So who knows when the hell it happened.

2.) Raglan James, via those direct messages asking Daniel for "reciprocation" for getting him a copy of the script, with Armand's handwritten notes, of the trial-play. Between that request and the Talamasca publishing Daniel's book, that loops Daniel into the James orbit very much. And ties Daniel very close to any Talamasca going on even more.

And, quite frankly, I've thought since Season 1 that David Talbot's character was out and would be merged with both Louis and Daniel on the show. And Sam pretty much confirmed in his interview with Autumn Brown that some characters from the books will be merged together with others in the show. So, yeah. David's character is very much a character I always thought they were doing that with, and I know I'm not the only one who's thought it before now as well.

And honestly, I can much better deal with some type of scenario in which Armand maybe ends up turning two versions of "Daniel" -- and therefore technically having two fledglings, even though they are kind of the same person -- over what is being put forth about this right now. One turning -- in spite -- of Daniel's body without his true spirit/soul/consciousness in it, and the other turning -- out of love -- of Daniel's spirit/soul/consciousness inside a different body of some kind. (Which I won't go into now, as that is a whole separate long meta if I did.)

Because at least with that scenario then, in a weird way, Daniel being Armand's only fledgling would still hold. 🤷🏾‍♀️ Along with a few other things that can happen regarding Armand's character growth in between each turning.

But that is it. Because there is no way they can have Armand turn Daniel (as fully Daniel) out of spite -- as Rolin directly says he does in this interview -- and actually keep the heart of the Devil's Minion story and romance now. Not even if the Devil's Minion chase and parts of the relationship happened in the past IMO . . . another thing they are clearly avoiding talking about, btw. Which, at least right now, just tells me that, if we're lucky, we'll only -- once again -- get one episode that flashes back to that time in Season 3. Can't really be helped, since Season 3's primary focus will be regarding Lestat and Lestat's backstory. (As I've said before Daniel isn't even in that book. So whatever we get with him in Season 3 really will just be extra, added stuff.)

Oh, and something else I very much recognize is that Loustat shippers -- particularly book ones -- have gone through it these past two seasons, but now seem to be coming out of that darkness. Maybe now it's time for Devil's Minion shippers like me and others to face the same damn thing now. Because of something Assad let slip a few weeks ago about not getting Armand's full story until Season 4, I think that is how long we're going to have to wait to see the full of this play out.

But I advise right now that if some of you think you can't handle that and would just rather quit the show and binge things later, I totally get it. Waiting two seasons -- basically 4 years minimum -- is going to be a pain in the ass. I already know right now that there are some things I'm not going to have the patience for during the hiatus times in between, particularly this one. (One thing I can already say, at least right now, is that I'm not inspired to write any show-based Devil's Minion fanfic this hiatus like I did during the last hiatus).

But quitting the show altogether? No, I'm not there yet. Because yes Rolin does like to troll. Plus Hannah's tweet. Plus what was said about Devil's Minion at ATX Festival. Plus my thinking, long before now, that David Talbot was always out wrt the show, and the fact that Raglan James is here and Daniel's character has been heavily tied into The Talamasca plotline of the show.

And given everything I've seen this show do wrt it's writing up until now, I just can't fully believe they would really make Devil's Minion this damn shallow and devoid of its depth and heart. And just have Armand turn his one and only canon fledgling and immortal companion out of nothing but spite. When Armand loving Daniel and finally having to trust in Daniel's love for him, as well as his own love for Daniel over his own fear was a major point and culmination of the Devil's Minion storyline.

After everything I've seen these first two seasons wrt this show, I can't think these writers would miss such an important heart and point of the Devil's Minion storyline and romance so completely.

Not yet at any rate.