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undertale-data · 3 years ago

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[Image Description: An Undertale chat box that has “WHY FANS LOVE UNDERTALE” at its center. Next to it are a line chart and an Egg from the Dating Hub on its left, and a CRIME measurer (also from the Dating Hub) on its right. End I.D.]

[Image Description: a pie chart titled, “LEVEL OF LOVE FOR UNDERTALE.” The textbox on the top right reads, “On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least and 10 being the highest, how much do fans enjoy Undertale?” From the top going clockwise, 12 or 0% chose 5 and below; 23 or 1% chose 6; 98, or 4%, chose 7; 325, or 12%, chose 8; 529, or 20%, chose 9; and 1664, or 63%, chose 10. End I.D.]

It’s clear from all of the data analyzed so far that fans who took the time to answer our survey love Undertale. It is unlikely that they would have taken the time to answer so many questions if they had not, and even less likely that they would have come across our survey in the first place. Naturally, it comes as no surprise that 63% of our responders gave their love for Undertale a score of ten out of ten. 95% gave their love for Undertale a score of eight or higher, and only 12 responders responded with five or below, a number so small that their responses had to be lumped together to be visible on the pie chart. Of those, only 3 responders gave their love for Undertale a score of 1, and based on those responders’ other answers, it is likely that they were only intending to troll. We are very fortunate that the vast majority of responders took the survey seriously, enough so that responses like this are barely a blip in the data.

Now, for our final analysis post of the event, we will delve into the reasons that fans love Undertale so dearly.

(Essay and highlights under the cut.)

There have been countless essays on the impact that Undertale has had on people’s lives. I can hardly add more on the subject than what has already been said, but I hope this summary can provide a brief overview of what stood out among the over two thousand answers given in response to this survey. That said, due to the sheer volume of answers, I could not read every single one in depth—however, I did skim all of them, and some that stood out or were representative of several responses have been highlighted below. If you would like to see what every fan who consented to share their response had to say, you may view the full list of responses here. Note that these responses have not been edited in any way. This document may take a long time to load, as it is over 100 pages long.

(Warnings for mentions of suicidal thoughts in the following essay.)

Several responders loved the theme of choices mattering in Undertale. Whether people played the pacifist, merciless, or neutral routes, they enjoyed how the game reacted to their actions. For some, it even made them consider their own morality. One touching response explained the impact that the theme of mercy made on them. “I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.” Many fans left similar comments about how the themes of Undertale made them better people.

Undertale changed how its fans treat others, and it also changed how fans treat themselves. The theme of staying determined and the messages of hope in the game were a light to a very large portion of fans. I cannot list all of the fans who said that Undertale helped them out of a dark place, or that they would not be alive if not for Undertale. “DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.”

Undertale brought fans together in unexpected ways. Some said they met friends or significant others through the fandom. “I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale,” one fan said. A different fan who is non-native English speaking mentioned that the game and the fan community helped them to learn English.

It would be impossible to discuss Undertale without mentioning the fan community. Whether for good or bad, many responders mentioned the fandom in their responses. Overall the feelings towards the fandom seem positive, though many made references to “toxic” parts of the fandom without specifying which parts they consider toxic. Others rejected the idea of toxicity in fandom. One response said: “[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!”

One thing that makes the Undertale fandom unique is the way it embraces various AUs. Some fans are tired of AU content, but the majority of responses show a love for the creativity behind AUs. “Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.” The lack of a judgemental atmosphere seems present in the AU community, according to the responses we saw. There is an interesting balance between AU and canon (sometimes referred to as “classic”) content that another responder pointed out: “The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertale fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)”

Regardless of the many AUs the fandom has created over the years, the original game of Undertale still feels like home for many fans. They wished they could reclaim the feeling of playing the game again for the first time, but even though we can’t reset time in real life, there is still a special feeling for fans each time they play Undertale. One fan said, “Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.” This feeling is one that can be cherished time and time again. In the words of another responder: “It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it.” Others pointed out the strength of the found family trope in Undertale, which likely contributes to this feeling of “home” as well.

As mentioned briefly earlier, the music is part of what makes Undertale feel like home for fans. Even when responses focused on other aspects of the game, many would throw in a comment about the soundtrack at the end. One comment focused on the music said “IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.” Like with the game itself, the music has incredible replay value, an amazing feat considering most of the tracks use the same few motifs. “I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story,” another responder said. “They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.”

If the music sticks with fans in their hearts, then the game’s lore sticks with fans in their minds. Even six years after the release of Undertale, fans are still creating new theories and digging up new secrets. The way the game breaks the fourth wall in particular intrigued many fans and has stuck out through all these years. The awareness that the game shows for the RPG genre makes it memorable. The game plays with the player’s expectations and turns them on their heads, all while reminding the player that they’re in a game. There are few other games that do this on such a large scale, so it’s no surprise that fans cite this as one of their favorite things about Undertale.

Lastly, the LGBT+ representation in Undertale has been a huge draw for fans. Especially in 2015, the sheer volume of non-cishet characters was unprecedented, as one fan pointed out: “It's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. Hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. It's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.” The LGBT+ cast including Frisk, Chara, Napstablook, Monster Kid, Mettaton, Alphys, and Undyne each connected with fans in unique ways. It’s clear how important this is from responses such as: “There are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.” “It made me gay and trans so thanks for that.”

Once again I am overwhelmed with just how much there is to say about Undertale. One responder really understood when they compared Undertale to an iceberg, explaining that there are so many layers to the game that there is something for everyone: “everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans—from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers—is the mark of the coolest games!” I would have to agree with them.

It’s been six years, and despite everything, it’s still you. Thank you for reading, participating in this survey, and above all, staying determined.

Highlights:

DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.

I think the coolest thing was having the opportunity to watch the AU community grow from its bare roots. It's nearly insane how big and complex it's gotten, unlike anything I'd ever seen before. Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.

i love how the lgbt rep is so naturalized... there are just gay people! and its nobodys business!

The music is my go to answer, but what I really really REALLY love is how the minor characters have so much personality to them when you talk to them. They aren't incredibly important to the overall story, but they're all so likeable and diverse that you just can't help but like them immediately!

I think it was the first videogame I have played that broke the fourth wall that much. Of course there has been other videogames that broke it but just for one or two tongue-in-cheek jokes. The guilt of killing mama goat was also something intense as well that I appreciated as an experience and that I didn't think a videogame could cause on someone.

I love how no character can be seen as completely bad! Everyone builds up Asgore as some horrible villain, but he turns out to be a 'fuzzy pushover' who's broken and just wants his family back by the time you meet him. Then you think Flowey's an irredeemable killer who engineered the suffering of the monsters across many timelines, and he is... but he also used to be the kind and beloved Prince Asriel Dreemurr, traumatized by his death and subsequent rebirth, projecting his best friend onto you.

The fact that choices matter in the game. Your first playthrough and getting the golden ending for the first time. I can never replicate those feelings again, wish I could erase my memories and replay the game from the start.

I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale.

(Toxic parts of the fandom aside) The community is possibly one of the kindest I've ever met. Cringe culture is completely dead, and I feel like I can be myself. I felt a very close connection to many of the characters, and I loved consuming content about them when I was in a rough patch in my life.

just everything, the whole game has just impacted my life so much. i know it sounds really lame, but when the game first came out, i would purposely put my hands in my pockets and sway slightly, like sans' idle animation. of course i dont do that anymore haha, but undertale still really impacts me to this day, and i wouldnt have it any other way :)

it made me gay and trans so thanks for that

I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.

The thing I love most about Undertale is no matter how many times I play or watch a playthrough it always makes me genuinely happy. It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it. Toriel still makes me feel all warm and cozy in her home, the Skelebros always make me laugh, and I still cry on the inside watching Frisk comforting Asriel. And on the flip side the No Mercy run still invokes the negative emotions in me as well. In short Undertale just feels like a second home to me and I always wish I could stay.

The reader inserts are my favorite way to decompress after a hard day

I think Undertale helped me discover my love for 8-bit games, and made me realize how IMPORTANT music is in video games.

the worldbuilding and character design are my favorite parts of the main game apart from the music! I’m also a huge fan of the random AU music- not for like underswap or underfell i like the stuff where someone makes a megalovania for a random au where gru from despicable me replaces sans as the character. i think its funny

Just... the vibe, honestly? Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.

there are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.

[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!

There's a scene where Frisk (the player) is going towards what is presumably going to be their death. They will fight Asgore and he will use their human soul to break the barrier and free his people. The music, despite the player's impending doom, is... triumphant. You are not the triumphant one here, and yet, the score invites you to experience the monsters' joy and happiness as they tell you the tale of their subjugation. The monsters are going to be free. This is their victory, but they don't hate you or want you to die. They're just... happy. That scene has always struck me very deeply. I feel it represents the best parts of Undertale.

I loved how well thought out the Geno route was. It really made me feel like I was doing something horrible, and the characters were very obviously reacting to dire circumstances.

I dunno? I like Undertale for it's characters, story, music, secrets and many more. I am not good with Headcanons but I also like the neutral endings and how different they can depending on who you spare and kill

I was very bad at english before, i thought i couldn't progress because i was very shy and not confident. But my sibling and i wanted to have the best experience with this game so we wanted to play it in english. It's this game and the fandom which helped me to make huge progress in english !

THE SOUNDTRACK. IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.

to avoid writing an essay i will say one word. Mettaton

It is like Toby specifically made the games to fit the iceberg meme and it's awesome, everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans - from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers is the mark of the coolest games!

I love almost everything about Undertale as a game on its own. The music, the art and especially the characters and how they interact. They made me feel at home. Undertale means a huge amount to me. (I even got a tattoo of the castle when you and MK walk together!) The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertake fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)

the mystery. toby fox refused to give answers to anything and i think thats very sexy of him.

I just feel guilty for liking it so much when I'm in my 30's. But I recently got diagnosed with ASD, so I guess it explains things a bit. Many ppl consider Papyrus to be neurodivergent, and some adult fans are too, so seeing that makes me feel a bit better.

i think about "Despite everything, it's still you" everyday of my life.

I like how it's just as funny as it can be serious. All routes are this way. I laughed as much as I cried when I played the Pacifist route and then once I opened the game again and Flowey was telling me to let them be happy, I immediately turned off the game. I somehow felt bad.

The Found Family Trope

The True Pacifist Ending is just...man. And the fanworks about saving everyone even when the game doesn't let you? MANNNNNN

I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story. They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.

there's honestly a LOT to love about this game, but i think one of my favorite things about it is just how many lgbt+ characters there are??? i can think of alphys, undyne, frisk, chara, mettaton, napstablook, monster kid, asgore, mad mew mew, the dress lion, the royal guards, and arguably even papyrus off of the top of my head, but im sure i'm forgetting a few from just undertale alone (there's even MORE in deltarune)!! it's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. it's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.

[Image description: A wordcloud in the shape of the capitalized word UNDERTALE. The text is white on a black background, and uses the font found in the game. Some of the most visible words are: Game, Love, Music, Life, AU, Store, Friend, and Feel, which represent the most common words in the essays people wrote about their love for the game. End of ID]

#undertale #analysis #results #undertale fandom census

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sepublic · 3 years ago

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I really dig how now that a lot of FNAF kids are grown up, it’s become a lot more mainstream and openly beloved now; It helps that FNAF has had recent content and lore.

Because back during its debut it was seen as ‘cringey’ and ‘for kids’ and you had a lot of older people making fun of it, and it was a niche sort of thing. But now that a lot of FNAF fans have gotten older and gained more of a presence as experienced content creators, there’s like... This resurgence of people who get to vocalize how they really liked this stuff, and find other people who also have the same appreciation; And it’s just really encouraging and validating to see. It’s incredibly sweet seeing how popular perception has turned around, when back then the only popular creators who DID do FNAF (like Markiplier or MatPat) were seen as appealing to a ‘lower’ demographic.

Obviously the constant, upwards stream of content and lore also helps. But still, FNAF really does seem so much more popular and prevalent in meme culture now, that it’s legit become something ‘acceptable’ to like, and not in a New Fad type of way either (not that kids should need ‘acceptance’ for their interests). People grew up on it and now they’re old and confident and united enough to express their enjoyment without guilt, unironically. And that in turn influences other people who haven’t really heard or are impartial, and now you’ve got Freddy Fazbear memes all over the place. There’s even the lasting influence that leads to stuff like the freaking Banana Splits movie, which was originally a FNAF film! Kellen Goff made a name for himself with FNAF and is a recognized VA.

It’s legit all over the place and a trending sensation and people are nostalgically into it, they think it’s legit cool; FNAF has legitimate staying power in people’s minds and recognition, it’s got a solid reputation and Freddy Fazbear is now a cultural gaming icon, a household name like in-universe. Creators who made stuff back in the day are just as beloved and have triumphed despite the sneering accusations of ‘cringe’. People aren’t afraid to be mocked for it or have it labeled ‘overrated’, and I think it just says a lot about how kids usually get shamed and made fun of for their interests... How all this ‘back in my day’ generational talk is just utter bullshit, how every generation before has lamented the ones after, talked of the decline of ‘good media’. It’s just people enjoying themselves and whatever criticisms one might have for the creator, they certainly weren’t at mind back when kids were being mocked for their fun.

I just think it’s fascinating and surreal to see, that stuff you enjoyed as a kid, or you saw as ‘kid’ stuff... Knowing that now or in a few years, there’s gonna be all of these older people on the internet recognizing it, talking about it with one another; Excited to see people also liked it, speaking of how it was their childhood! It’s just weirdly nostalgic even if you yourself weren’t involved in the thing, because you can really relate. You can relate to that sense of going on the internet and finding other people who also loved that! For a while you thought you were alone, but now it’s cool now, other people find it cool, and you can be casual about being into it!

It’s honestly rather uplifting, seeing it firsthand that people are gonna grow up. That your generation and the one after will grow, and actually impact the world in the future. There’s gonna be actual change of some sorts, and even if it’s something as small and innocuous as a franchise about killer animatronics... It makes me feel hopeful? Like we’ll have an impact and maybe we weren’t for nothing, after all.

So it really is important not to make fun of kids for just enjoying themselves, because what’s ‘cringe’ is so arbitrary and will easily turn around; It just isn’t worth it to ruin others’ fun, surely you remember also being shamed and scolded? This situation perfectly exemplifies about how us fully-grown geezers really should know better and be more sympathetic and patient, not be buzzkills for these kids; It’s not for us but so is a lot of stuff we enjoyed back in the day, no longer for ‘us’ as we are now! Times are a-changing as are the generations, we just gotta accept and embrace and be happy for that, because that is the best thing or everyone would’ve been way more miserable for millennia.

It just really is the best feeling growing up and enjoying that thing clearly meant for kids and being a bit embarrassed by it... But then growing up and finding others who also loved and still love it, and thus get to express and continue that enjoyment! Make new stuff for it as an adult when you’ve got more experience, which again leads to this type of fandom renaissance I mentioned. Like, it’s gonna be okay; You felt like such a silly loser, but you’re gonna find other people like you who will show otherwise. It was valid, YOU’RE valid and it was awesome just for giving you joy. No more guilt. It’s gonna get better.

(Anyhow I just gotta say as someone who left a while back but still has some memories, it is SURREAL learning through osmosis how much of a juggernaut of lore this franchise has begun. The enigmatic purple guy has a name and family members and a face reveal. It’s apparently about kids’ souls being stuffed into robots to bring back the dead? Remember when it was so simple, and now it’s so spiraled into so much more, with all of the elaborate theories no longer a stretch from canon? Reminds me of how my other childhood interests have developed, and it’s all nostalgic as a result.)

#FNAF #five nights at freddy's #ramblings

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seesgood · 4 years ago

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can we very gently talk about call out posts / culture really quick? not in a judgmental way, but in like a: i just want to pose a thought and explain why i’m never going to buy into it and why i wish it would become less of a trend instead of more of one? and i’ll add the disclaimer here: i totally get not wanting certain people around you for various reasons, that is all your prerogative. that’s your comfort level. but in emphasizing “your blog should be a safe space” we’re kind’ve losing sight of the fact that the rpc should also be a safe space, and as much as your comfort and safety matter, so do other people’s. and not just the person who hurt you, but the third parties and other mutuals and 99.9% of people who are not at all involved in any way in whatever happened. so, anyway here goes, read it or don’t, we all have different opinions or reasons, i just want to be heard:

people are allowed to change. think back to who you were last year. two years ago. think about the stuff you said when you were seventeen, or twenty-one, or hell whatever age you were. current-you would probably cringe at the kind of stuff past-you had to say. because you grew. you learned. you had life experiences. in hindsight you have the freedom to be like “oof yeah that was not the best version of myself right there damn i don’t want to be like that again.” the growing trend of ‘here’s a 10+ page google doc complete with out of context screenshots that sometimes date back to like 2017 or earlier’ makes this kind of change impossible. because right there, you’ve just frozen a person in time, probably not at their best, removed any and all amounts of context, and put it on the internet and let other people judge it for themselves.

so that leads into another point that i want to just kinda present to the community at large: the act of documenting behaviors and storing them for months / years at a time, in itself creates a super unsafe environment, not just for you, your friends, the people who have hurt you --- but also for anyone else that isn’t at all involved in whatever happened. like, for example, i like to think that i’m a pretty nice person. i actively try to be a nice person. am i sometimes not having the best day? have people definitely caught me in bad moments? oh hell yeah. but am i, as someone who tries really hard to be nice and welcoming, constantly thinking through every message i send to someone knowing that a) i could have a reputation that makes them read into context that isn’t there and that could contribute to them misinterpreting words i meant in a different way, b) very aware that every post i make, ask i send, message i send can at any moment be screenshotted and posted and taken out of context and either serve as someone’s only opinion of me or pile on to someone’s existing opinion of me? yeah. so in my experience, and based on people i’ve talked to, we now have this thing where you can be surface-friends wtih a lot of people, but if you want to survive in the tumblr rpc you should really only have 2-3 people that you really trust that you can actually talk about shit with.

and lately i’ve been seeing a resurgence of posts on my dash about like “bring back xyz in the rpc” or “the reason the rpc is like this is because of xyz” and i both agree and disagree with a lot of this, but primarily i think the reason the rpc is Off lately is because everyone and their cousin has a DNI, which is --- again --- your decision and i understand and respect that, but while you know the context of every name on that DNI, other people don’t. and to be honest: other people don’t really care and honestly maybe they shouldn’t care. --- and don’t get me wrong, your friends should care if someone has hurt you. that’s important. but joe billy bob who just wants to write their character with yours is going to read through your rules, they’re going to see “do not interact with me if you follow with or interact with these people you’ve never heard of and if you want me to tell you why just message me” (which no one is ever going to do, i’m sorry to say). and say, joe billy bob also followed that other person because they were like ‘omg this blog looks cool’ --- now joe billy bob, who just wants to write cool plots, is suddenly the middle-man in some type of drama that they do not understand, and maybe they’re able to remove themselves from the situation, but even then it’s still in the back of your mind.

this is getting long. it’ll be longer, but let’s take a brief break for me to remind you that in some cases, it’s definitely good to give your mutuals and friends a heads up when someone has done something really, really bad. like, remember x amount of years ago when some dude was like ‘i’m gonna make up a new person and say they died by suicide as a social experiment’ or ‘hey this person actively tries to force very triggering plots about abuse / rape / incest onto people and has been doing so for years and does not seem to change their ways no matter how many people try to educate them’ that’s shit people should probably know about. and it’s also okay ( in my opinion ) for your friends to be able to message you like ‘hey i saw you’re writing with x and i just wanted to let you know i had this experience with them’ if that’s something they feel comfortable doing. and if they are comfortable with you still having the autonomy to make your own decision regarding the person.

i’ll be honest, for a second: i’ve been part of friendships and groups that have turned really toxic for one reason or another. a handful of times. there are probably people out there that are like “yeah this chick is really fake and manipulative and etc, i was friends with her back in 2019″ which, okay. yeah. i’ve definitely done shit and said shit that was not the most representative of who i want to be and who i want to become, and you probably have to. because we are human beings and we are a product of our social groups and the community around us. and you shouldn’t be chained to a version of you that isn’t you anymore. people change. they grow. you don’t have to like them, but you should respect that sometimes people don’t mesh, and that doesn’t mean any of them are bad people, it just means the experience was bad.

a few additional notes i would like to make but i’ve already gone on way too long:

90% of the callout posts that i’ve seen and the DNI’s that i’ve seen can, in my opinion, be classified as a friend group thing. you were friends with x, x did something, now y and z aren’t friends with x anymore. pain is a very, very real thing and people hurting you should never be minimized, but at some point i just want you to remember that not every friendship is going to end happily, but both you and the other party should be allowed to move on and grow better, healthier friendships after. rehashing Friend Group Gone Wrong instances removes that ability for not only person x, but also person y and z.

you putting out a callout says just as much ( maybe more ) about you than it does about the other person. which sucks. because i’d like to think we all have great intentions, and i’m not saying that you should swallow your pain, but it might not be the kind of thing that impacts the community at large, and maybe you should try to find a better way of working through it with a trusted friend(s)

i’m going to be very real and very blunt on this one: literally no one cares. i say that with love. i’m good friends with people who have each other on their DNI’s. establish a baseline of respect and ‘i’m not going to say anything to them about you and vice versa because there’s no need for me to do so’ and move on. but seriously. no one cares. most outside people read callout posts because they like being in the know about the drama, not because they actually care.

person a and person b who are mentioned in the DNI / callout aren’t the only ones who are going to be affected. your friends, your mutuals, your writing partners are now all put in a weird spot where you have to pick sides on an issue you know nothing about and shouldn’t have to know anything about. you’re asking people to choose sides on an issue they cannot fully understand, and that’s not fair to them or to you. and it drives great people away. and then we all lose out on having more awesome people in the rpc.

you’re entitled to your safe space, but this is a public platform and you are also responsible for maintaining your safe space. you shouldn’t put it entirely on other people to do that for you. you can block, blacklist, make up funny names for, or spitefully erase from your many anything and anyone that you wish. but you shouldn’t make your friends do it for you.

there’s always an inherent power imbalance when any kind of drama occurs between those who have more followers / friends / connections and those who do not. and the smaller blog is always going to suffer a little bit more because they don’t have people blindly coming to their defense.

bad moments, bad experiences, bad decisions DO NOT equal bad people.

allow people to make up their own mind about something or someone

anywho, if you read through this whole thing i think i owe you financial compensation. but also thank you for reading / listening / considering. even if you rolled your eyes through the whole thing like “stfu lia” that’s fine. i’m just presenting an alternative thought. i’d like to once again state: i’m not judging you if you’ve made a callout/DNI or if you’re on a callout/DNI. like i literally don’t care. and frankly, in my opinion, i shouldn’t have to. because i, and you, and your friends, and your mutuals, and your non-mutuals should be allowed the space to make up their own opinion and mind on something or someone without being told that there will be consequences if they don’t agree with you. set boundaries. communicate in healthy ways. you don’t have to forgive the people who have hurt or wronged you, but you also don’t get to decide that their actions make up 100% of who they are as a person, or decide that that is the only side of that person people should get to see.

#ʟᴇᴛ’s ᴛᴀʟᴋ ɢʀᴏᴜɴᴅ ʀᴜʟᴇs ⸺ psa.#/ long post cw.#when i say long i mean LONG #i could do an entire dissertation on this #i could do a ted talk #but ys know #if anyone wanted to do some ahem non-light reading this morning #*jazz hands*#( if you want to reblog this monstrosity you definitely can )

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thewordworrier · 3 years ago

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So I have like 10 drafts for mcr writing but I'm afraid to share it all. Any advice or tips for starting a blog dedicated to my writing and sharing my love for mcr?? I really admire you and your blog 🖤🖤

Oh Anon 🖤🖤🖤 That is so sweet of you. Actually, this is a pretty good time to start expressing your love for MCR, considering their huge resurgence. And, if you’re brave enough to tag your work properly (unlike me to an extent) then you might get a decent enough audience! As per normal with me: a) rambly advice under the cut <3 b) any follow up questions or anything, let me know <3

Truthfully? The best tip is just to do it. Maybe warm up your blog a little first, reblog some pictures or whatever you like. Make a pinned into post so we can get to know you. (Obviously you don't have to do this, but you can if you like.) Tumblr is like a personal scrapbook; it's your little corner of the internet and you get to cultivate your own experience. Don't be afraid to block people, or tags or anything like that. Turn off the ability for people to send you anonymous messages if you need to. You can always turn them back on later. If you're nervous, don't tag anything. That's how I started. I'd tag it with stuff for my own blog searches (like - #mywriting or something) but I didn't dare tag it with names. Heavens no. Nowadays, I do that, because I'm a little more confident. Actually, if you create a side blog, I'm pretty sure that you can password protect those if you ever need to. If you're super nervous, don't share anything personal about yourself. You shouldn't share anything too personal anyway. I fell into sharing my writing accidentally, really. I will always say that you can blame @robinrunsfiction for that. And she's the reason I keep sharing. To be honest, I still get nervous sharing sometimes! Hell, I get nervous when I see an unfamiliar username liking my writing posts. I’m very like - is this the user who’s gonna send me hate-mail? Maybe I’m a little paranoid, but I can’t help that. I’ve been toying with the idea of posting my stuff on AO3 as well, and for some reason I can’t seem to make that jump - I’m really nervous about that for some reason? My point with that paragraph is that, we all still get a bit nervous sometimes. If you're not confident with/about your writing... That's okay. That's normal. I've been posting on the internet since... Ugh god, since I was a teenager. A long time. I look back on some of the older stuff and... I cringe a tiny bit because, good lord that's old. But, that’s okay - I've gotten better (I hope!!!) but those old stories helped me get to where I am today. You can share things, then change your mind and take it down later if you want. Or you can leave them up as a reminder that you’ve improved. Because you will improve. That's the thing - we all start somewhere. The more you do it, the better you get. One last thing though; you do not owe anyone anything. You write because it makes you happy, you write because it’s fun. You’re not being paid for this (legally you can’t really, it’s fan fic, there’s laws about that); you are providing content for free. Even if you start taking requests - the above still applies. You have a life outside of Tumblr; you might have school or a job. You might have a partner and kids, or you might be a kid in your family so you still have family commitments. You have friends, other hobbies. You should never feel pressure to provide free content for anyone. Especially not if it starts sucking the joy out of writing for you. Don’t let anything do that.

#She Speaks #She Answers

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serpenteve · 3 years ago

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Hii, I didn't know with whom to share this and then I thought of you!

This antis are giving me these 18th-19th century vibes when expressing independent opinions that clashed against the status quo was deemed a near crime. Ex- Anne with an E when the female teacher Miss Stacey is condemned for her unique knowledge and wearing pants and many more period dramas where a certain group of people are like - "Dishoner on your family!", "Disgrace to our society!", "Think of lil children!", "You learn what we teach you, must not impure your image with sinful opinion!", "You know nothing!", infantalization women, misogyny etc. and that has always enraged me. Just like how old tropes are subverted and then re-subverted bringing the former back, I feel like those 'traditions' are making their back here. And That is terrifying.

There does seem to be a resurgence of purity culture rhetoric and policing in fandom spaces and I also don't think that's coincidental considering all the terfy bullshit going around on this platform as well.

I was initially annoyed with people calling this "purity culture" because this is a term that usually refers to evangelical pearl-clutching about women's hymens but the attitude, arguments, and even policing about what is and isn't acceptable to ship in fandom is very similar to what I experienced growing up.

The problem is that culturally we are still very uncomfortable with women's sexualities. In church, women must not even have sex drive lest they get shamed for it. In fandom, women can only be attracted to whatever the fandom police deem "pure enough" or "acceptable". The fact that people can ship something toxic like Darklina or dare to have alternative character interpretations or wanted the narrative to allow Alina to be a little more evil or ruthless is too "problematic" to express. But the thing is, people's shipping preferences or fictional interests are just never going to be PC or good enough for polite society. That doesn't make them abuse apologists or evil people in real life. Are we going to go after BDSM community because they are "romanticizing abuse" next? Or harass actors because they like to play villainous characters? Because it's all made-up, it's a safe place for people to explore a toxic dynamic without the actual drama of one.

There's also this narrative that Darklina shippers are either (1) deluded little girls who need to be educated about the toxicity of their own ship or (2) old hags who are intruding on a fandom space that apparently has an age limit of 20 and need to get back in the kitchen. So we can already see the patriarchal assumptions in the narratives themselves: you are either a pure infantalized little girl who needs someone to tell you right from wrong or you're a grown woman who needs to do her womanly duty instead of participating in fandom. Gee, why does this sound so awfully familiar to me 🙄

Every other day, there's a new post in the #darklina tag from a "concerned" fan who feels compelled to talk down to shippers and say "Well, actually, the fact that you guys still ship Darklina after everything he did just proves Leigh's point that you're all stupid whores who would welcome abuse if it had a good jawline 😌". Or a "confused" fan who's compelled to say "How can people ship Darklina? Literally what is wrong with you? Are you fucked in the head to ship X with Y? I'm so glad I'm not like that uwu 😌"

Like, do these people have such little faith in women that they feel compelled to constantly cringe and post PSAs on the dangers of a sexy jawline? How little faith do they have in themselves that they are so obsessed with making sure a group of shippers (who have always acknowledged and always historically acknowledged the toxic aspects of their ship) are sent anonymous hate mail? That they think all this is okay because they can hide under the banner of "activism" and "concern for women's safety" or "think of the children!".

I've seen it all before in church. People who can't stand that others have a mind and body of their own or dare to have fun "the wrong way" and need to be reminded about their "true" social role in society. People who need to constantly slut-shame you because something about your actions reminds them of some part of themselves they are deeply ashamed of and can't acknowledge. People who are just looking for an excuse to be an asshole and are thrilled to hide behind "well im just helping silly little girls spot abusers" rhetoric.

#viv answers #cw: purity culture #cw: abuse #when they are actually doing the opposite #whelp this ended up being long but i am salty adhfskjfd

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martian-martian-martian · 3 years ago

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I usually don't say this because I feel like every piece of activism has its place if it has good intentions but, genuinely- I feel like the time spent trying to cult-style deprogram people who liked Harry Potter as a child is a waste of time and emotional energy for literally everyone.

Some genuinely good ideas that I've seen:

Don't pay for Harry Potter merchandise or content. Pirate it if you want.

Don't post about it on social media as it just adds flames to JKR's delusions of grandeur. Don't put your house in your bio. Don't quote it or make references online.

Fan content is free publicity so it's sort of in poor taste.

And for the love of fuck don't go to that stupid universal studios park.

If you're going to read it, read it as critically as you would Lovecraft or any other piece of literature that is inherently problematic: i.e. with critical thinking skills and awareness.

But ruthlessly attacking people who show any indication of liking or having liked harry potter, including trans people, is just terminally online bullshit.

All this "read Carry On/Watch This Anime Instead uwu!" shit is well-meaning and like, I get it. But the fact is, no piece of media will ever be a direct replacement for another piece of media. And that shouldn't be the goal. The new weird era going on of literature that makes everything about 'what tropes do you like' or' what kind of ships do you like' in, like, real books is so weird to me. Like I've never encountered in any other generation the concept where you would go into a bookstore and go

'I'd like a slow burn abo-adjacent with witches and coming of age and if theres not this many gay characters of these exact heights its a failure'

People would think you were fucking insane. There's nothing wrong with preferences but I feel like theres this nutty idea that fiction can have no ambiguity, no surprises, and must be predictable and flawless in every way to be enjoyed, to the point of tokenism (in my humble opinion)

Yall were raised on on-demand fanfiction style works, you realize that most people don't read books like that right?

I digress, the point here is:

Recommendations work for some people, but definitely not a thing for everyone.

You straight-up can't control whether on not someone enjoys something, for better or for worse. You can only somewhat control how they react to it.

We need to work on Harry Potter free environments and internet spaces so trans people and people of color don't have to deal with all the discomforting bullshit.

Making 'Harry Potter Free' people without some Men In Black neuralizer device is just... not gonna happen.

The point is cultural irrelevancy. To the best of my knowledge.

As long as we either love or stigmatize Harry Potter that's free publicity either way. I see what y'all are trying to do and I'm here for it, but giving it a RESURGENCE as the 'book series everyone loves to hate' is just gonna get TERFs on their victim complex more than ever.

Giving money to JKR is ACTIVELY transphobic. Period.

Posting about Harry Potter is simply being part of the problem.

Being an OUTSPOKEN fan of Harry Potter right now, currently, is ostracizing and in poor taste and maybe a little cringe.

Having read Harry Potter and enjoying it when you read it and having fond memories of that hurts literally nobody. Zero people. Thought crimes do not exist.

Just my two cents.

If you buy a Harry Potter Halloween costume this year I'll hit your head with a shovel.

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aceandart · 4 years ago

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Hey! I read your recent post and it read differently to a lot of posts under the destiel tag as of now. Personally, I’ve seen the first 5 seasons (watched it about 5 yrs ago), but haven’t been caught up to date on any of the recent stuff other than the Destiel apocalypse that’s happening right now. Could you explain the following?

“...mostly being this show is a misogynistic racist homophobic consent issue-ridden pile of bad writing “.

I was contemplating returning to the show and tuning in for the missing seasons, but what you said about it has now placed me on the fence. Could you elaborate and advise?

Thank you so much! I appreciate seeing an honest post that doesn’t sugar-coat or overlook bad writing/negative characteristics of a show!! :)

[re this]

Hi!

Well, I feel like the finale probably took care of any fence-sitting you were doing (and sorry I couldn't reply sooner), but actually my answer wasn't going to change even if the finale was okay (good, imo, was always a stretch): No, I personally would not recommend watching this show. and while my answer is mostly because of the things I am going to list to answer the rest of this question, I was also going to say - you dropped the show in s5 and that was five years ago? Whatever caused you to drop it in the first place, it probably got a lot worse. (It literally doesn't even matter what your major grievance was, they have since doubled, tripled down in terms of how bad it was.) Trying to marathon through ten seasons (20-23 episodes long each) is hard; trying to marathon through all of that to get something without a satisfactory ending is a lot of emotional labor for no payout. It's not just that this is a bad show (though it really, really is, on every level); it's that you have already tried it, you tried arguably the better seasons of it, and you still didn't want to stick to it. By the nature of how tumblr works, it can make anything look so much better than it is, just because in general the people you see hyping it up *like* the product, have decided to devote their fandom time to it, are highlighting the choicest parts of it. spn was always about the potential around the edges, the story fans made of it; the actual product was always secondary to the could have, should have beens, and this gets truer the later into the show you get. I'm not saying there weren't some great episodes, some great scenes, and even some great mini-arcs, but it was a drop in the bucket to everything else. and I'm positing this answer on the idea that you are asking because you want to watch the show, and not because you want to use the show as a supplemental for your fandom experience, but if it is the latter, I'll just say I'm currently heavily involved in reading fanfic for a fandom I've never actually watched a whole episode for, and while I'm probably missing some context I'm still highly enjoying it. fandom, honestly, so often becomes so much more than the bones we build it on. and if you want a little more, catch some "greatest hits" videos or catch up on just some of the “must-see” episodes and save yourself from having to watch all the moments in-between, because there are a lot more of them than the good parts. very few shows improve as they age out, and before the nov 5th resurgence if you weren't already following spn blogs, likely the main spn meme you were coming across was the annual 'salt and burn this dead horse' that went out after each season renewal. the tl;dr answer is really, it's not worth it. (to be honest, at the end of the day, despite the sheer amount of time, energy, and words I've put into this fandom over the years, and I put in a lot, I didn't actually like the majority of the show. so, you know, grain of salt on my opinion. then again, you left it seasons before I did.) That said, buckle up, cause now I'm gonna tell you why:

Literally, The Shitty Writing

I feel like the finale speaks for this point by itself, but before I get into all the "problematic" bad writing spn does, I want to talk about the fact that the writers are also just fundamentally bad at the craft of writing.

continuity errors. they’d change their lore/creature ability to fit their plot. (the reapers esp got the end of that bad stick.) the characters will often forget (monster-slaying) solutions that worked before (holy wood, yarrow, christo, creative approaches like exorcisms on recording, spells to remove angels from their vessels, bullet with a devil’s trap, etc). the writers forgot their own timeline more than once. the random retcons they'd do. sometimes it would also lead to plot holes.

which, speaking of, they had plenty of

there's also things that don't count as plot holes but are very large missed opportunities (ex: Dean spends a year in Purgatory and no one recognizes him? he doesn't bring up his daughter?)

I don't even know what this one would fall under, but if a character wasn't right in front of them, they would forget that character's existence. not just Adam (though that was a big one), but there were so many secondary characters that even in places it would make sense to mention them, much less bring them around, they didn't. or because they would not expand their main character list, characters who should have been around a lot more than they were (*cough* Cas, but that's an easy one, I'm also talking about characters like Kevin) would have these huge gaps between episodes that didn't make sense

they don't really have character development. this isn't to say the brothers don't change, they do, but at the same time the characters face the exact same (internal) arguments over and over again, never resolving or growing from them; they just have more examples when they think about them and it gets worse and more unhealthy because of the new weight added to it. the problem with their brothers only format, and the problem with their biphobia but more on that later, is that Dean wasn't actually allowed to grow out of his John Winchester's son role, to let himself be comfortable (and dare to be happy) with himself because that meant changing the story into something they didn't like and/or didn't know how to do. at the same time, allowing Sam to grow meant breaking the Brothers Only format, because as the show stated multiple times, Sam's happy ending did not involve hunting.

and with that, they sometimes flattened the characters so badly they became caricatures more than anything else. hell there's a whole season where Dean goes evil, and people had a hard time realizing it, which was not because it was a subtle slow descent but because shitty pacing, uneven (and contradictory) episodes, previous actions that weren't written as being evil but were the the exact same thing as when he was evil that were supposed to be "signs", and how they chose to represent that evil meant it was really hard to figure out that was what they were doing and not just writing Dean as more of an asshole than they previously were. (he's not evil, he's just a prick.) and I don't mean I had trouble telling, I mean fandom as a whole had major arguments about it, much less the general viewing public.

the series finale put a definite end to the idea they would follow through on even one of their main series themes (family don't end in blood, free will vs destiny, always keep fighting, etc), but this was something they would build up to addressing and then just anti-climatically let fizzle out in multiple seasons. character and relationship themes (not just destiel but the brothers co/counter-dependency, the importance of found family, Dean's growth from Daddy's Blunt Little Instrument and Sam's acceptance that he deserves better/agency in his own life, etc) would be built and broken down in an effort to drag the question out into another season. it wasn't two steps forward, one step back, it was a reboot.

their filler vs arc episode ratios: there's nothing wrong with the Monster of the Week format as a stylistic choice, but this show

a) would kill its own plot momentum to focus on MotW episodes. [part of this is the general spn problem they created of constantly trying to one-up their season's Big Bad, which I understand but also means one episode they are going against The Most Powerful Being in Existence (for the Fifth Time) and then rather than focus on that world-ending threat, they hunt vampires for like six episodes straight. they had a very bad balance where rather than continuously weave the larger arc into the season, or at least build characters and relationships, they'd jam it all around the season premiere, finale, and mid-season finale/premiere episodes, and then all the rest was just, bullshit cases where nothing got resolved or had a lesson stick around for the next episode, making them very skippable. also more on this under the homophobia section]

b) the filler episodes contradicted themselves and the main plot all the time.

c) sometimes they focused so much on making the b-plot a mirror they forgot to write a coherent a-plot. also: sometimes they focused so much on making the b-plot a mirror they forgot to write a coherent b-plot.

I cringed my way through more than one episode of dialogue

the recycled plots

more on this in the next sections, but either they didn't notice, actively didn't care, or purposefully chose to overtly and subtly imply or state a bunch of really fucked up things, and then never address them at all

speaking of never addressing anything, I realize this is a fandom vs canon battle in general, but so many things get swept under the rug as they move on to the next issue (ex: Dean put an angel in Sam's body to "heal him", violating his consent and exasperating his issue with telling what reality is - a huge issue from previous season - and once the Mark of Cain story really took over the subject gets dropped.)

death is so cheap on this show. and I don't just mean that the revolving doorway of resurrections means it's hard to get worked up about a death because (as long as the character was a white man and especially the brothers) there was a high chance they'd be back, and I don't just mean that their Murder Is the First, Last, and Best Solution to Any Issue, Ever means the faceless and not so faceless hoards of villains, monsters, and humans who get caught up in it are just hand waved as one of those things (they have ways of saving vessels and the later into the show the less likely they are to even try), but that there was no point in investing in (esp non-white, male) secondary characters because chances were they'd be dead pretty fast. I'm honestly shocked characters like Jody (who actually at one point was in the middle of being killed off on-screen and then we didn't see her for eight episodes, so we assumed she was dead) made it until the end.

(speaking of dead characters though, what was with the habit of bringing them back constantly? just don't kill them in the first place! create new ones and let those ones stick around instead!)

when they can't use death as their solution, the other answer the writers fall back on is Deus Ex Machina

buckleming were a writing duo who had their own bingo cards that included things like shitty pacing, OOC-ness, flat one-liners, etc, and the question wasn't if you'd get bingo, it was a question of how often you got it during their episodes. at some point throughout the show, it became hard to tell what was a buckleming episode and what was just another episode in the season. aka the writing quality went WAY DOWN as a whole

you know the tv trope Idiot Ball? or Idiot Plot? spn should have it's own page for both.

they constantly break viewer's trust, which is the basic tenet of what not to do when it comes to telling a story. (again, not just destiel, though the queerbaiting is a major part of it because it happened all the time to avoid actually answering that question.) when a writer violates their character's or story's core identity for a 'twist', it needs to have been carefully built so that it's a surprise to the viewer, not a betrayal. (you may not have seen it coming, but when you look back you can see the groundwork.) these writers, every time, chose the "shocking" choice regardless of how much they need to break canon or character to do so. their twists are either obvious, and/or they don't make sense with the rest of their story/lore of the show, and the viewer is left feeling stupid for believing they have more respect for the audience/characters than they do.

I realize this is pretty subjective, but huge swaths of it are just boring. fandom made the experience of watching it interesting, not the show itself.

and yet, for all of that, the quality of writing (while painful to have to sit through) was not the worst thing about it.

(note for the following: I stopped watching after s11, but I'm sure some if not all of these are still relevant until the very end)

Misogyny and Consent Issues: Is There a Limit? Signs Point to No

there is honestly so much under this topic I don't even know where to start. i'm going to focus on patterns rather than specific incidences, because otherwise I'll be writing this for a week, but just know I can easily provide examples of all of these because this is literally what I spent years writing meta on.

female characters were more likely to die quicker/earlier (esp vs other other male characters with similar reoccurring roles/characterizations), stay dead, and die often at the hands of their loved ones and/or in Stranger Danger situations. they died for man!pain. they died for fodder. they died as a sacrifice. they were turned into love interests (whether that was their original role or not) and then killed. they were put in mortal danger and then not given resolution for several episodes (Schrödinger's death.) they died in ways we've seen male characters survive. their deaths - the violence enacted on them - was constantly, consistently sexualized, and the camera lingered.

when it came to villains the show would go out of its way to kill the female one first, or act like she's the more pressing issue so that the male character could hang around longer (and honestly by male character I often mean specifically Crowley and the season's female villain. not only that but they'd often break canon to kill off a female character, and break canon to save Crowley/a male character)

when you compare the treatment of reoccurring female characters vs male characters who occupied either similar roles or characterizations, female characters were often punished and/or treated poorly for the same attitude and/or actions of their compared male character, who often got not just a (free) pass, but more screen time, dialogue, and development

they have more than once used the story line of underage girl seducing a grown man. (it was a whole season arc even.) this is esp galling when you find out about crew member Jim Michaels, who sexually harassed and assaulted (minor) fans

(btw, not the only crew/cast member to do so! and still be invited to cons!)

Dean Winchester (who is narratively treated as the moral judgement for the show) has blamed more than one rape victim for their assault/trauma. they often get abused (or outright killed) for stopping their abuser.

Dean is ok with flirting with/leering at barely legal teenage girls. already sketchy when he's 26, really gross when he's in his mid/late thirties

speaking of Dean. based on past personal experience I'm going to say up front people do not like me saying this, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong or even based on interpretations: Dean has more than one relationship that if it isn't rape, falls under extreme dubious consent.

there's actually a lot of rape (or "extreme dubious consent") and assault/molestation, both shown and mentioned: Cas and April, the cases were men take away free will and then have sex with the women (Ben Edlund was one of the better writers of series and even he did this a couple of times), Crowley orgy (and demon sex in general), random women in some episodes, Sam and meta!Gen, Becky and Sam, Sam and Lucifer, Dean and Alastair, several monsters (like the siren) and their victims, male characters secretly watching female characters undress/be naked, and so on. Dean was often attacked sexually by men, Sam by women. most of this is never addressed, never treated like what it is, and/or is made into a joke

and there's even more rape jokes beyond that, sub-sections: prison, vessels/demons, angel possession, sex work, childhood abuse, monster of the week, sexuality, etc. huge chunks if not whole episodes were devoted to making what amounted to a rape joke.

often ignored non-sexual consent (esp Dean’s actions, including a lot of mind-wiping and violations of body autonomy)

everything about Sam and body autonomy - he is frequently violated (multiple characters have possessed him; he is fed demon blood); how he feels unclean, how he feels disconnected from his own body, how he often is forced to act outside of his control and then blamed for those decisions

actually, Cas goes through that a lot too; he is trained, brainwashed, and forced to do things without his consent, and goes through major depressive episodes because of it

this show has a pattern of girls who are kidnapped, (sexually abused), raised in isolation, and expected to develop some perfect moral compass of acceptable behavior and were then killed off when they didn't. meanwhile, male characters get fourth, fifth chances.

female characters (and I'm talking about ones with speaking roles, who play an actual part in the plot, who are sometimes in multiple episodes) are more likely to be unnamed or given no last name

are you a Mother on spn (as in, that's your role)? you're either fridged for man!pain or abusive or both

it rarely could pass the bechdel test (including in s9 don't believe those fandom lies), and that's including episodes that focused on female characters. if the test included that the characters have to be named, that (small) number probably gets cut in half. if that test included both women are alive at the end...

female monsters prove they deserve to live by killing off their family to prove they're the "good kind" (this is not necessary for male monster characters)

female characters are not allowed to get vengeance

they took the Virgin vs Whore dynamic (and that that's all women are), and devoted a whole episode to it, but in general it underlines of ton of interactions, esp with regards to Dean and women. {I actually never got around to writing it, but women tended to fall into four main classifications on this show, though overlap definitely allowed: Victim [sub-categories: Fodder, (Dean) Mirror, Mother], Love Interest, Sex Object, and Villain/Obstacle. very few female characters were either allowed to outgrow their category or didn't start in one.}

we see the male characters assault female characters but it's okay because [insert supernatural reason here], ignoring that whatever explanations for why it's being allowed, we are still visually being shown this violence against women, and often from our "heroes" (the women are then tossed away from the narrative after the violence and again, their aftermath gets regulated to off-screen who cares)

female characters were only allowed to be "so badass"; female hunters often fought female monsters or they lost/got regulated to the sidelines in battles. this gets even more contrasted as a male character/hunter will often do a nod about how "badass" she is, even as she is very easily beaten.

the whorepobia of this show

had a tendency to strip female characters down to their underwear/make them nude before torturing them, and then adding sexualized torture on top of that

outside of actor injuries affecting this (like one of them broke his arm so he had a sling for a few episodes), female characters are often more likely to visually carry the bruises/violence of violent incidences much longer than male characters

gratuitous filming shots of breasts, asses

the use of the words: bitch, skank, whore, slut; the play on words they do so they can say "pussy"

taking female myths/figures and reducing them to a cheap, sexist storyline (Amazons, Artemis, Lilith, Eve, witches - who are only allowed to live/be "good" if they're men, and are otherwise in league with demons/are evil and lose)

they often kept a character but switched out her actress; helps with the disposable feeling

how they treat women's ages (ex: Jody is not allowed to be a love interest to Sam because she's older than him/calling Dean 'kiddo'. ex: Rowena is played by a woman fifteen years younger than Crowley's actor. ex: Amara being one of the oldest things in existence but still having to age her way up.)

their treatment of teenage girls, ranging from how they sexualized them to expecting them to save themselves to treating them like they are grown adults and not children to the way they kept killing the ones who posted selfies to the fact the pr more than once used the tag "teenage girls - the scariest thing ever" for Claire's episodes

actions and lasting legacies by female characters often got erased or passed on to male characters instead

it's a time honored tradition to treat certain monsters as metaphors for things. specifically for spn, they often use werewolves and vampires for sexual assault. (not the first to do so, not the last to do so.) however, that part of it gets textually glossed over, or treated as a joke, more often than not

and for all the patterns I talk about above, there's plenty of other one-off examples of misogyny/sexism or consent issues/rape culture this show did. like that time a grown man sniffed the bra of a dead teenage girl. not for any reason, just because it was there and that's what dudes do, apparently.

Racism: All the Flavors(+ Bonus Sexism)

when you compare the treatment of reoccurring white characters vs characters of color who occupied either similar roles or characterizations, characters of color were often punished and/or treated poorly for the same attitude and/or actions of their compared white character, who often got not just a (free) pass, but more screen time, dialogue, and development.

usually Black men but in general men of color:

a) got humiliated (often using feminization or infantilization) before their death

b) had a more violent death; had a death that visually echoed racism (lynching, shot in the back, etc)

c) often used (racialized) rhetoric that in the real world is used against them

d) often filmed in ways to highlight their physicality, to portray them animalistically, to dehumanize them

e) even when victims, will add context to make them partially responsible for their death

characters of color were the villains or antagonists, very rarely "good guys"

this was a very white show, and while I'm speaking about speaking roles, reoccurring characters, and characters who get their own arcs, I'm also talking about background characters

using lore from groups they should not have and/or turned creatures into racist caricatures

having white actors play characters they shouldn't have

heavily depended on stereotypes for their characters of color

the treatment (esp narrative empathy level) of white angels vs angels of color. again, screen time and character development differences between the two

a summary of (East) Asian woman on this show: fetishized porn/sexualized, “tiger mom”, Yoko Ono/The Girlfriend, monster. they were often silent or had no dialogue. microaggressions (usually spoken by Dean) were leveled at them.

antisemitism (styne issue, erasure of the Judah Initiative, Lilith, the golem)

like the sexism, just had random racist lines or visuals throughout the show (and sometimes those came in the absence of who should be there); some groups literally did not have enough characters to make a pattern, which is why this section looks a lot shorter than it really is

like for ex, I'm trying to stick with patterns but seriously, they put a Black woman in a dog collar and said her white boyfriend was her master/that she belonged to him

the ignorance of how white privilege worked to make them palatable

the replacement and/or elevation of a white character over a character of color (Lisa over Cassie, Bobby over Missouri, Charlie over Kevin in terms of how they were treated under Found Family, etc)

how they treated non-Christian Gods: easily killed, evil, weak. they often repackaged them into a Christian framework and made them lesser than.

Bi/Homophobia, Queerbaiting, and Using Fans

they butchered Charlie. they killed her, they killed her in a way that involved leaving behind plot, characters, and logic to do so, they killed her and used the violence of it for "shock," they butchered her and stuck her in a bathtub. the guy who wrote Charlie in every other episode (Robbie Thompson, one of the better writers of the show) didn't write her last episode (assumption: because he wouldn't) and then he arguably left the show over her death. at one of the cons (comic-con?) the cast literally turned their backs when a fan questioned Carver (the showrunner) about what he did because they wanted no part of it. there was a mass exodus of fandom after they killed her (and another portion actually hung around because they got destiel queerbaited to stick out the rest of the season, and then they left.) she was un-apologetically queer, she was found family, she was widely popular, and they killed her for no reason at all. they didn't just Bury The Gay (their only reoccurring one), they salted and burnt the ground

they spent over a decade queerbaiting Destiel. they built queerbaiting destiel into the structure of the show: season opening/first couple of episodes whetted the appetite, which they then backed away from (usually removing Cas from Dean's physical area) and around this time they'd usually have some kind of heterosexual love interest, then mid-season they'd have some room to be together and share feelings, Cas would again disappear but this time they'd have some bi!Dean thrown in to keep you going, a few episodes before the end they'd have a major connection moment (I need you, I love you), and then the season would end with something to keep destiel fans occupied with during summer. it was never a trajectory, it was a cycle; just enough for plausible deniability but more than enough for fans to believe in. they had whole seasons where the b-plot were mirrors for destiel. they tried to sell DVDs by promising destiel cut scenes. they'd remove Cas from huge chunks of episodes just because they didn't want destiel interacting in the same physical space. they filmed them (I'm talking camera angles, physical positioning, etc) romantically. (and sometimes, someone on crew/the network would accidentally reveal how not-fucking-happening destiel would be, and then backtrack when they realized fandom’s uproar.)

a) Dean was only allowed to care so much for Cas, the narrative would only give him so much room to mourn/miss him. (Sam too.) it's beyond my general complaint that the writers/bros lose all interest in a character if they are not right in front of them (if they even cared when they were), but specifically they will spend episodes talking about how Cas is family, how much they care, and then because Dean and Cas cannot share the screen they come up with asinine reasons to remove Cas, which means Dean/the bros do not help him on his issues, and he is cast adrift until they need him, a push/pull of show vs tell with contradictory answers but made a lot of Cas/Destiel fans argue Cas deserved better.

b) they also devoted seasons to the (subtextual) love triangle of Dean/Cas/Crowley. (I wish I was fucking kidding)

c) "you construct intricate rituals which allow you to touch the skin of other men": the way they use violence to supplement affection (which is actually a larger pattern with Dean and his loved ones in general, but specifically the show is willing to show - multiple times - Dean and Cas being violent (often with an arguably sexualized filming to it) in conjunction with or as replacement for expressing their care.) other side of this: hugging/physical affection outside of the shoulder/hand thing is reserved for escaping or coming back from death, if then (and it took seasons and a few deaths to even get that.)

d) "buddy"

that time Dean was allowed to be textually attracted to his mother and a literal dog (who was visually made to be very clearly a girl dog), but his attraction to men always stays subtextual and/or treated as a joke

they spent the whole show queerbaiting bi!Dean. aside comments, checking out other guys, getting flustered by men he finds attractive, metaphors, mirror characters, the heterosexual overcompensation [which is different from but comes from a similar place of the macho compensation to counteract how he gets sexualized/feminized], everything with Cas and how they play that relationship romantically and with sexual attraction, the character development that led to his relaxation of his macho compensation coinciding with increasing subtextual readings of his bisexuality (and domesticity), the inspiration for his name/character is bi, his relationship to Charlie and the pattern of fictive kinship, etc etc.

why are angels straight???? why do they have gender???? (why are they interested in sex???) minus the queerbaiting of destiel, they spent a lot of seasons pushing Cas into a heterosexual box. other angels were often pushed into heterosexual boxes too. (or left in subtext and then killed.) closest we got to playing with gender was Raphael and maybe Hannah, and at least with Raphael it was not without its issues. (also: both dead.)

random transphobic lines

homosexuality was often treated like a joke/punchline. queer characters/scenes were often treated like a joke/punchline.

outside of Charlie, queer characters were small, two-bit roles, extremely rare, and often killed

how they treated and showcased fandom space and esp queer fans in-show (much less how they treated them in real life), comes from a deeply sexist and homophobic place

The Show Was 328 Episodes Long And the thing is, these are the four big categories, but it's not like this is it. The show flip-flops on calling John an abusive parent/that the bros are childhood abuse survivors. The show doesn't even really call out when Dean is being abusive to Sam, and the way they always, always go back to the Brothers Only format means they are often ignoring or straight-up forgetting the unhealthy aspects of their relationship. The show ignores how their trauma builds (and all the things that happen because of it), disconnecting the current issues with the ones that came before. The way they flip flop on monster morality and never address what the winchester bros do to people who happen to be monsters but aren't evil (or definitely aren't as evil as they are). How violence is always the answer. How the "saving people'' part of hunting got dropped the later the show goes on, and red shirt vessels/hosts die in droves. Depending on how you view it, the way they treat alcoholism and addiction. The ableism. The line between the narrative's opinion on acceptable violence and not is inconsistent and dependent on how much they like the character doing the violence vs who the violence is being done to. Etc.

(The above lists are definitely missing stuff. I haven't done anything in this fandom in like four years, I've forgotten a lot.) I'm not saying people didn't enjoy this show. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy (parts of) this show. I'm saying whether you are basing it on things like writing craft or things like 'social justice issues', this show is bad. It is of poor quality. I really don't know how to explain the hold it has on people, how a show can be charismatic, how fandom was able to squeeze so much out of so little, but that's probably what's got you attracted into the idea of watching it again. If you're thinking of watching it because you want a coherent, well done story, look elsewhere. The finale was the literal last straw, not the only one.

#spn #fandom stuff #inbox and admin stuff #//#also this focuses on canon #(and ok a little abt the cast/crew)#(though among other things not mentioned is how actors of color and actresses got treated re cons & crew demographics)#however fandom has it's own fucking list and I can come for them at any time too #anyway that was a very nice ask #and if you want actual details about any of these I could provide #but I wanted to stick with patterns because I feel like that says more than the individual things they do #of which there are legion #anyway a summary of what I and many other people have discussed over the years about how much this show sucks #////#i really do get the urge though #one of my mutuals makes s15 destiel sound good #but fool me once shame on you and fool me 50x fuck you spn #//////#this is long (you asked a very wordy person) but tbh I've written longer meta #and oh man back in the day this thing would have been full of links that would have taken you to other metas #///////#eta: fucked up my formatting I had to add a) because bullet points wont indent

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mandochlorian · 5 years ago

Text

don’t fight me (ben solo x reader)

summary: compared to Rey or Ben, you feel kinda useless. one day, before a mission, ben tries to help you with something and you lash out at him. though you regret it, you’re too proud to apologise - much like you’re too proud to accept help when you need it.

general masterlist

star wars masterlist

There’s a mix of anticipation and fear in the air, you can sense it. And rightly so - the mission sounds promising from how Ben and Rey describe it. You stand by Finn, amongst the crowd of Rebels who look to the podium. The pair stand side by side, looking like the poster children for the Resistance. Some distance behind them stands Han and Leia, who watch their legacy in front of their very eyes. They talk through the mission, though it’s simple. Infiltrate the empire loyalists, capture command bases and push them back.

You can’t help but feel burdened by a feeling. But you can’t quite pinpoint it. Finn nudges you. “I have a good feeling about this,” he smiles, turning to you but keeping his eyes on Rey, “With them as our leaders, we can do anything. The empire’s resurgence doesn’t stand a chance.”

You don’t say anything, you just give him a nod, wishing that comment didn’t make you feel... pointless. Why are you even here? Just to stay back on base and wait until Ben and Rey come back, triumphant, giving smiles and shaking hands? Nothing about that feels like a win. You want to be doing something more. And it’s not about glory or being rewarded for it. You don’t care about the fame or popularity that Ben and Rey have amongst the Resistance. It’s just that you... you have this feeling. This feeling that you have so much more to offer. You have to. Right?

“For the Resistance!” And the crowd disperses.

With a sigh, you trod off to your work station. This can’t be all there is. Seeing your vacant expression and slumped shoulders, Ben narrows his eyes. He can feel the doubt and shame radiating off of you, and he follows.

The computer monitor in front of you makes your chest sink. Boring. “What’s wrong?” Ben inquires, appearing behind you. You turn, letting a breath out when you see it’s him. “Your thoughts are so loud.” He continues, giving you a concerned look, but he turns to the computer you sit at, “Are there any updates on security?”

Bless him, he doesn’t even realise how horrible you feel. Tearing your eyes from his inquisitive ones, you log into the computer. “No,” you respond, “everything seems normal.”

“Seems normal?” Ben cringes slightly, you look up at him, “We need to know for sure that nothing has changed. It could mean they know we’re going to attack.” He explains, as if you don’t already know this.

You let out a short sigh, parting your lips but trying to hide your true frustration. Yeah, I know how to do my job. Ben frowns, hearing you. “What?” Ben tilts his head, his eyes narrowing. He didn’t really catch what you thought, but he could hear the hint of annoyance in your tone.

“I’ve been doing this for years,” you look up at him, meeting his confused eyes, “You don’t need to explains anything to me. I know what I’m doing.”

Ben’s big lips part, he’s kind of stunned. He didn’t realise you took it that way. There’s no way he’d ever doubt you or your skills. You’re beyond intelligent, hard-working, kind, you’re capable. Ben knows this. He lowers his voice, seeing you typing away on the computer rapidly, “I didn’t mean it like that, baby, I just-”

“Nothing to report, sir,” you cut him off, shaking your head as you stare blankly at the screen. His silence in the air feels palpable. “Nothing has changed. I’m one hundred percent sure.”

He doesn’t really know what to do. You’re his first girlfriend, his first love, and you’re his best friend. But he doesn’t want to push you. Though he really wants to know what he did.

Ben gives you a look, before he sifts through your emotions like a catalogue. Hurt. “What did I do?” He whispers, rushing through your negative feelings, Annoyance. Frustration. Jealous. Alone. “Why are you upset with me?” Ben wonders helplessly.

“I’m not.”

“You’re being short with me.”

“It may come as a shock to you, Ben,” You give him a smile, standing from your station, “But not everything is about you, surprisingly!” You brush past him, ignoring the rebels at the computers beside you who listen to your lovers quarrel.

He pauses. He frowns. “What?” Ben follows you closely as you weave through all the people, “W-Wait. Y/N, come on!” He’s so focused on not pushing anyone over or knocking anyone down, and trying to follow where you’re quickly heading to, “Talk to me!” Ben doesn’t feel the dread and self-hate flowing through you, bringing tears to your eyes, “What’s wrong with you?” He shouts, stopping by the hallway to the dorms.

You halt, your shoulders tensing. Ben watches, frown lines prominent between his eyebrows. “I want to be alone.”

“No,” Ben shakes his head, walking up to you, “You don’t.” He looks down at you, seeing you clutch your keycard in one hand as you try not to cry. “You can’t hide from me.”

You cross your arms, “You wouldn’t get it,” you admit, shaking your head at him.

“Try me.” Ben responds, noticing your growing anxiety. “Hey, hey. Breathe.” He soothes you, staring down at you, “Breathe.”

It annoys you that he’s so good to you. So kind. Caring. He loves you. And you can’t help but think about yourself; about your problems. He’s about to lead a mission for stars sake. The thought grips your heart, making you feel even worse. “Leave me alone,” you whisper, squeezing your eyes shut, “I just want to be alone.”

Ben clenches his teeth. Wanting, more than ever, to ignore your request and find out what’s wrong. He knows you want him to go but he can’t shake the feeling that’s telling him to stay. “You never think I can help you but I know I can,” Ben admits, taking a step closer to you, “I can help you.” Watching you stare at the ground, Ben moves closer to you and whispers, “Baby, let me help you. Please.” He goes to place a hand on yours.

“Ben, I don’t need your help!” You raise your voice, gripping the card tighter in your hand. When you look up at him, you can’t help but feel the anger combine with guilt and regret. “I’m not useless! I don’t need you to hold my hand whenever something goes wrong, alright? There’s nothing wrong with me, I don’t need help. Just leave me alone!”

Ben’s brown eyes are wide as he takes a step back, his hand up in the air as he moves away from you. “Okay, okay,” he whispers back gently, moving away from you, “I love you, okay?” Ben’s voice is soft, barely even there. And all you can do is stare at the ground, squeezing your eyes shut as you try to stop crying. Ben just nods, takes in a deep breath, and he leaves.

You slump against the door to your room, leaning on it for support while the tears begin to halt. It takes a while. The watch on your wrist beeps, alerting you to the amount of time that’s passed. You hadn’t even realised how much time you had spent in this hallway alone.

Wiping under your eyes, you sniff loudly, standing up straighter and heading down the hall. You don’t bother hiding the remnants of your tears because you know no ones looking at you anyways.

When you sit at your desk, starting the computer up, you have to refresh it once or twice, you have to blink your eyes a few times, you have to see what you’re seeing a few times just so you know you’re no hallucinating. The security on the loyalists has... shifted. Slightly. It could be nothing. It’s not nothing, you can sense it.

“Mira,” you look beside you, “How long since the Falcon left base?”

“Almost like 10 minutes?” She answers back hesitantly, “They should arrive at the destination... now. Why?”

You rise quickly, pushing your chair out and sprinting to the hangar bay. Mira frowns before looking down to your screen. Her features change in realisation. “Poe! Dameron!” You shout, looking around at the bustling bay. There are people everywhere, clad in bright orange, “Poe! Poe Dameron!” You scream louder, jumping when you feel a pair of hands on your shoulder.

“What’s the deal?” He asks hurriedly, taking his hands away from you, “I was about to leave.”

“The west gate security changed, they’ve updated the lower level and enabled a shock-wall between the last command p-”

Poe shakes his head at your jargon, eyes focused and distressed, “What’s it mean?”

Your lips are parted. You only now come to the realisation. “They won’t make it to the last post. They’ll be trapped in the base. They’ll all die.” You never replied to Ben, you never said you loved him back.

Poe calls someone over, telling them to communicate this to the Rebel soldiers. The response is that it’s too late, they’re already inside. Turning back to you, the pilot studies you, “How do we disable the wall?”

“I... I don’t...” You fumble around.

“What is it? Come on.” Poe urges you.

“You wouldn’t get it, even if I explained it a hundred times. No offence.” You run a hand over your face, frowning at yourself. You should’ve been at your station. You should’ve focused on the mission.

“Strap in. Helmet on.” Poe orders you, heading to a large ship and handing you an orange helmet, “Quickly!”

“I’m just a... I can’t go on field.”

Poe opens the ships hatch before clicking his helmet into place, “Yes, you can.” He assures you, giving you higher clearance. You give a quick nod, shoving the helmet onto your head and sitting in the passenger seat of the fighter. “I’ll lead you to the wall,” Poe continues, double taking you to fix your placed helmet, “We get in, disable it, reach the command post with the others, and get out. Got it?” He places a blaster on your lap, placing his seatbelt on as the ceiling above opens up. The ship roars to life. You say nothing. You take the blaster in your hand. Your fragile, shaky hand. The hand that’s only ever dealt with computers, never weapons. “Got it?” Poe turns to you.

“Got it.” You nod quickly.

“Good job, by the way.” A small smile stretches across Poe’s face as he looks at you, before the ship shoots into hyperspace, “What’s your name?”

“Y/N Y/L/N.”

In an instant, there are shots being fired at the fighter. The whole thing shakes. You grip onto your blaster, looking out at the battlefield. They all look like ants from up here. There are tie fighters zooming in the air, shooting down at the impeding x-wings. “Oh, it’s gonna be a rough one!” Poe shouts, clenching his teeth as he pulls down on the steering mechanism, sending the ship hurtling towards the ground and away from the tie fighter blasts.

The ships doors open. The sounds coming from the battlefield intensify. When Poe takes his helmet off, you fumble to do the same, unstrapping your seatbelt too. With your medium sized blaster in your hand, you jump from the seat of the ship and look at Poe for guidance. Jumping back, a blaster dings the metal of the ship beside your head.

You turn, seeing a man wearing stark, white armour. Lifting your hand up, you pull the trigger on your blaster. The next shot sends him to the floor. Poe is beside you. He pulls your gun from you, flicking a switch and giving it back to you. “Okay, great, safety’s off now.” He confirms, stalking by the wall and heading forward.

You follow him, watching him shoot down the soldiers that cross him. You fee grateful for him, he knows you must be freaking out. He also knows you’ve never shot anyone... never killed anyone. That’s what being on the battlefield is all about. There’s a large metal structure sticking up from the asphalt, with a glowing red symbol painted on it. There’s a group of people standing on it, spread out and facing the white armoured troopers on the ground. A rebel standing on the structure types away at the panel that’s there, looking back at the troopers trying to stop her.

Poe shoots down some troopers, getting their attention. The sound of something buzzing become louder. The troopers freeze, glued to their spots on the ground. The Resistance keep shooting, sending them to the ground with their blaster shots. Ben, his hand outstretched, blue lightsaber ignited, marches towards you with wide eyes.

“Ben,” you breathe, feeling relief flood you.

“I came as soon as I sensed you,” Ben responds seriously, a frown imbedded on his face, “What’s going on?” He looks to Poe, who goes to explain himself but then looks to you.

“They knew about the attack. They’ve enabled a shock-wall, there’s no getting out of here unless I disable it.” You admit to Ben, speaking quickly and rushed.

He bites his tongue, wanting to act out in frustration but he just looks down at you.

“Solo!” Someone calls out, “We’ve captured the second last base!”

“Good work,” Ben calls back, giving them a triumphant expression, "One more to go!”

The rebels cheer, heading off to the large building where the last post must be. In the distance, you see Rey, lightsaber in hand, leading rebels into the building and fighting the loyalists. “Poe, get in your x-wing. We need you up there.” Ben nods, he and Poe giving one another a nod before he heads off.

Ben grips your arm, pulling you in front of him so that your back is pressed against his front. His lightsaber is in front of your face, shielding you from the onslaught of shots coming from a stray trooper. Ben reaches a hand out, pulling the attacker ten feet forward. He doesn’t move again from his position on the ground.

Ben turns his lightsaber off, quickly pulling you behind a crate. You both crouch down. Ben takes the smaller blaster form your hand, tucking it in the back of your pants. He positions the large one in your hands properly, putting your finger on the trigger, “Don’t be afraid,” Ben looks into your eyes.

“I’m-”

“It’s you or them,” Ben cuts you off, his hand pressed against yours on the weapon. He taps on the blaster. “Don’t be afraid.”

You give him a nod, not saying another word. He sucks in a deep breath, looking at you. You’re practically wearing office clothes, there’s no armour in it at all. He tries not to think about it. “Okay.” He whispers uncertain, gazing at you before he stands up straighter. “Follow me.”

Scanning the area, Ben lets out another breath knowing there are no troopers out on the tarmac. They’ve all retreated to the main building. At the entrance stands a large map. Ben stands behind you, his eyes always gazing around to make sure you’re safe. You’ve never seen him like this.

“Where to?” He asks, turning back to you and the map.

You snap awake, looking at the detailed map. “Uh... We’re on ground level... the wall is... Okay, follow me.”

Ben stretches his hand out, stopping you. “I’m leading. Where to?”

“By the inner tie fighter bay, level three C.” You answer, watching as he gives you an expressionless nod. You follow him down the corridor without a second guess, your blaster in your hand at your side. Quickly, you join a group of Rebels, fighting off some troopers. Ben stumbles back, out of the gunfire. A man falls to the floor at your feet. You tear your eyes away from him, seeing Ben crouching. He runs past the hall, lightsaber in his hand. When he reaches the room, his lightsaber is ignited. The rebels, seemingly knowing the drill, follow Ben as he begins to fight the troopers one by one. He’s expert, killing swiftly and quickly. The room is cleared.

You stand there, useless, following Ben again. Looking to the side, you see a notice board. “Ben!”

He snaps back to look at you, eyes filled with worry.

“Stairs.” You gesture, holding the door open. Ben races into the stairwell, and you both begin your march upward, to level three C. From behind you, you hear footsteps. Narrowing your eyes, you aim your blaster down the stairs. At the first sight of white armour, you pull the trigger, not stopping until the trooper falls to the ground.

Looking up to Ben, your eyes are a little wide. But you did it. Stars, you did it... you’re not sure how to feel and-

“Come on.” Ben demands, pulling you along by your arm. You rush up the stairs, feeling your heart race and your breath become shorter, “Three C.” Ben announces, “Clear.”

“Wh-”

“Follow me.” He dismisses you, heading towards the sliding doors.

“Wait!” You pull him back by his shirt, seeing him frown at you.

“What?” He snaps, turning back to you, “What is it?” He asks, blinking at you.

You pause, your lips parted but nothing comes out until his face softens with regret, “This... This level shouldn’t be clear,” you admit, looking away from his eyes, “It’s meant to be flooding with troopers.”

Realisation crosses Ben’s face. He swallows the lump in his throat, a small, hateful smile making its way to his lips. “They’re waiting for us to go in to disable it.” Ben nods, licking his lips slightly. He’s thinking, you can tell.

“Even if we go in, find the room, and disable the wall,” you tell him, “They’d be waiting for you by the time we finished.”

Ben nods, standing up straighter, “So it’s a chance we take.”

“What?”

“You have to disable this thing.” He admits, searching your eyes.

“They’ll kill you.”

“I’ll be fin-”

“They’ll kill you!”

“Hands up!” You snap to the stairs, seeing three troopers all with their blasters aimed at you and Ben. Your own blaster stays in your hand as you freeze. “Now!” The man yells again.

You look at Ben, who shrugs before lifting his hands in the air like the trooper says. You drop your weapon, raising your hands too. Pausing, the Trooper looks disorientated and when he places a hand over his throat, you realise why. He coughs, dropping his weapon.

The other two troopers look at one another, confusion written on their helmets. You and Ben both put your hands down and you see Ben’s hand shakes. Quickly picking up your blaster, you shoot down one of the troopers as Ben pushes the other one down the stairwell. They hit the wall with such force, it leaves cracks in the wall.

Turning to Ben, you look up at his brown eyes. He makes eye contact with you, swallowing the lump in his throat as he releases his clenched fist, making the trooper fall to the ground too. “Back to arguing.” Ben states, so cocky it makes your eyes roll.

Looking down at the troopers, you get an idea. Crouching down, you begin pulling the armour from one of the men. Ben watches you, tilting his head at your plan. Silently, he crouches beside you and does the same to another trooper.

Glancing at him, you see his concerned expression. “Ben, the Resistance needs you, you’re getting out of here in one piece. Alright? You’re not invincible.” You admit to him as you take your shoes off to change into the white armour, “One man can’t obliterate an entire army... Not even if that man is you.”

A small smirk pulls at his lips as he whispers, “I could do it.” He looks at you, seeing you struggling with one of the knee shields. Placing his armour down, Ben kneels before you to adjust your armour on properly.

“I’m sorry.” You admit to him, rushed and full of regret, “I’m sorry I snapped at you like that back on base, you didn’t deserve it. You don’t deserve any of my stupid shit... ever.”

Ben looks up at you, finished with your armour. “If it hurts you, then it’s not stupid. Whatever it is.” He moves to his own armour and you put your shoes back on. “I just want you to know you’re not alone. You’re never alone, you don’t have to be.”

Lifting the helmet, you rest it on your hip, “I’m sorry, I just feel like...” You struggle, cringing at the floor as you avoid his eyes as he stands, “I’m kind of useless,” you begin, biting the inside of your cheek. Ben says nothing. “I feel like I’m making no contribution at all. I don’t want to be wasting my life for nothing.”

Useless. Ben thinks it over. He’s familiar with the feeling. “Look at where you are,” he notes, staring down at you, “we’re here to save our soldiers; our people.”

Sucking a breath in, you place the helmet over your head, avoiding the topic any further. This could all go wrong. Then what? It would have all been for nothing. Ben holds back a sigh, feeling shut out once again. But he puts his helmet on, hating the way it feels. He can barely see. Great.

“Follow my lead,” he says to you, gun at his side and lightsaber hidden in the back of his pants beneath the armour. You do so, standing up straight with your weapon in your hands in front of you. Eyes wide as you pass other troopers who don’t give you a word or even so much as a glance. Ben stops abruptly, turning to a room with a large label over the door. “Here.” He whispers to you, glancing back at the hallway. Empty. It makes you feel an uneasy chill run up your spine.

The doors slide open and when you both enter, he stands by it. Taking your helmet off, you set it on the floor and begin to look around. There are large monitors everywhere, littered with blinking lights everywhere. Sitting on the chair, you read the first line of code above the login credentials. What kind of program is this? It looks decades old. You’ve briefly studied these but you’ve never used one.

“If this is anything like what we have, this should be easy.” You tell Ben, beginning to use common command hacks to let yourself into the database and get into the security details.

“And if it’s not?” Ben wonders, taking his helmet off before looking to you.

“If not, we blow up this room.” You suggest to him, glancing at him with a small smile.

He smiles back, giving you a shrug, “It would be easier.”

“I don’t know,” you respond, unconvincingly, “this whole thing seems too easy.” You hear Ben hum in agreement. And almost like the universe was listening to you, the big doors slide open. Immediately, Ben begins shooting troopers down, hiding behind a computer monitor that blocks you from the doors path.

“Still easy now?” Ben asks you, recharging his blaster before peering out to shoot again. Your heart is beating loudly in your chest, making you dizzy as you try to hack in. It’s not working. Nothing’s working.

As a last resort, you stand up, using all your force to kick the monitor down to the floor. The back metal sheet cracks on impact with the ground, and you kick it once more to get rid of the back of the overheated computer. You hear Ben ignite his saber, twirling it and deflecting shots as he steps out into the open to defeat the growing number of troopers.

Eyeing the cords and lights at the back of the monitor, you attempt to remember the backup protocol. It was put in place in old systems in case things failed. In newer models, there’s less room for failure. They program the backup into the system, instead of it being an external feature. If Ben weren’t so busy saving your asses, he’d tell you that you need a hobby.

There’s a small numbered panel. You squeeze your eyes shut, trying to remember the standard code for these models. “Come on,” you grunt, pressing your teeth together. You hear Ben grunt in pain, but his lightsaber continues swinging, “Come on!”

Model 1209. Coruscant. Heavy weight modum 30-S. Manufacturing number 9529.

You try both four digit numbers from the inscription of the monitor. Nothing. “Come on!” You shout, slamming your fist into the dumb thing.

Model 1209... You think, reading over the inscription. Ben slams his back against a monitor, out of breath, sweaty, lightsaber by his side. “You got it?” He asks, breathless.

“I...” You look at him, his hopeful eyes, “I think so.” Model 1209. 30-S. Manufacturing... 9529. “What’s... Ben, what’s 1,179 times... 9,529?”

“Huh?”

“Come on!” You squeeze your eyes shut, trying to think against the sound of blaster shots.

“Baby, you were always the smart one.” Ben admits, seeing you slumped over the monitor as gunfire hits the back wall. “You’ve got this. I know you do.”

You type the number in, your fingers shaking. This is your last resort. Other than this, you have no other options. There’s nothing else you can think of. The monitor beeps. You pause, staring at it with wide eyes. Suddenly, an alarm blares throughout the building, shaking your eardrums.

Quickly, you crawl towards Ben. He holds his arms open to you, his saber held up high as you both hide behind the monitor. The gunfire... it decreases. You hear it die down. With his gun, Ben pokes his head around, shooting down a few troopers. This goes on for a while.

Then, he sits beside you, looking down at you. Neither of you know if this worked. His chest is rising and falling rapidly as he takes you in his arms gently. Pushed up against his neck, you embrace him tightly. “Ben,” you mumble, hoping he hears you over the alarm, “Ben.”

“Yeah?” He asks, gently, looking down at you, “You okay?”

“I love you,” you admit to him, leaning forward and pressing a kiss to his cheek.

Ben’s eyes gaze into yours for a moment, his cheeks heating up bashfully before a smile breaks onto his face. “I love you too.” He responds, his warm hand coming up to your cheek. Ben pulls your chin close to his face slowly, his brown eyes staring you down as the gesture leaves you breathless.

“We interrupting something, kid?”

You pull away from Ben, looking up to see Han standing there, Chewie by his side as they stare down at you. “The wall’s down?” Is all you say, your eyes wide and hopeful, “It worked?”

Reaching out a hand, Han gives you a confident smile. “It worked.” He helps you up, then placing his hand on his hip - much to Ben’s dismay, who had to stand up on his own.

“What’re you doing here?” Ben wonders, looking between his dad and Chewie, who lets out a roar.

“We heard about the complication,” Han begins, putting his blaster back in his holder as he heads towards the door, “Knew you’d need help, so we got the best to come out. Here we are.” Han raises his eyebrows at his son, who lets out a small laugh.

Outside, the stormtroopers left are being rounded up by Resistance members; no doubt on their way to prison for various crimes. The air of anticipation has dissipated, now all that’s left is victory. You look to Ben, who walks beside you, Han and Chewie leading you out of the base. You see him looking around, examining the area before his eyes land on you and soften.

“I’m proud of you.” He smiles, grabbing your hand and leaning closer to you as you both walk, “I mean, I always am, but... we wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for you.”

“I don’t know, I-”

“I know you feel like you contribute nothing but it isn’t true,” Ben stops, turning to stand in front of you, “You work the hardest, you’re the smartest, you don’t give yourself enough credit.”

“I would’ve died out here if you weren’t by my side.”

“And everyone would’ve died if it weren’t for you.�� Ben responds quickly, “You’re remarkable, I wish you’d let yourself see that. I mean, 2,019 multiplied by 3,700?”

“I don’t think those were the num-”

“You know what I mean!” He exclaims with a smile, placing either hand on your arms, “You’re amazing. You saved everyone.”

“This is all just going to my head, you realise that, right?” You tease, giving him a smirk.

Ben hums, “You can be the cocky one in the relationship for once, then.”

“Then what will you be?” You laugh.

“The one who won’t accept help from the other,” Ben jokes, letting out a laugh afterwards.

“Oh!” You laugh, nodding, “Very funny, you’re a funny man, huh? Who knew.”

Ben laughs, leaning in to press his lips to your forehead, “Only joking, baby, only joking.”

"Come on, kid!” Han calls out from the steps of the Falcon. Rubbing your arm gently, Ben gives you a smile before you both head for the falcon, hand in hand.

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