#how did this finale both make me want the s4 we'll never get

[chainofclovers]

ted 😭

Season 1: We see more-than-a-glimmer of the hidden depths and pain, but his story is one of connecting, exploring, forgiving, and committing to a new place and to new people

Season 2: Ted's anxiety disorder forces him to take stock of his past, and he has to turn inward to very painfully connect, explore, forgive, and commit to himself

Season 3: Ted can no longer separate his life in London from the choice to be away from his son, and it weighs him down, detaches him, drains him. He makes the right choice; there is happiness; it's intentionally and unequivocally a sad ending. All the characters' happy endings are suspended in amber (even as we do get the mercy of understanding how they might live them)

[ven0moir]

And if I say that I have a very unhinged feeling that Mike's Benny's Burger t-shirt comment has more to do with Will than it seems ...?

ST makes us associate certain things with certain characters. Our very first memory of El back in S1 is of her reaching Benny's Burger, automatically making us associate Eleven with Benny and his diner. This is the very first time we meet her, so as the audience, we will always, ALWAYS associate Benny's Diner with her, and we're MEANT to. And the very first time we see Benny in relation to Eleven, he is taking out the trash. In S4, one of the last things we see Eleven do is take out the trash.

The Duffers seem to like doing things that at first glance appear like clever, silly little callbacks, but if we attribute these to just random and meaningless callbacks, there would be no point in analyzing this show, really.

Now, here is the thing. One of the strongest, most memorable moments of the show is Joyce using the Christmas Lights to communicate with Will. Christmas Lights are the SIGN that Will sent Joyce to let her know he was alive, and she FOLLOWED that gut feeling, and she was RIGHT. If both Mike and Joyce had thought about Will's disappearance in a 'logical' and 'rational' way, Will would've probably died in the Upside Down. Christmas, specifically, is continuously associated with Will starting in S1 and going into S4.

I can't find the screenshot at the moment, but there's also a moment Nancy says 'When Will was in the Upside Down, the lights came to life ...' once again, associating Will with Christmas Lights and life.

We see Benny's Burgers again this season, which we hadn't since S1. Now here's the thing. When we see Benny's Burgers again in S4 ... there are Christmas Lights EVERYWHERE. It is SPRING, there's no reason to have Christmas Lights up at this time of the year. Christmas is nowhere near in sight yet, and it's been four months since Christmas.

So in S4, they WANT us to associate Benny's diner with Christmas Lights AND I also have something to say about this 'We ❤️ you tigers' thing. We already know that there are tigers everywhere this season, and we even see them in Will's room. I'd like to bring your attention to this ...

'And of course, of course, I have to give a special shout-out to the best and the prettiest fans of all time, the Tiger Cheer Squad.'

You can say that this was in reference to Milkvan. With Mike cheering El on and whatnot. But here's the thing, Mike's speech was mainly 'Me, Me, Me.' 'I love you, I can't live without you' etc.

And yet, who was Mike actually on a TEAM with? Who did he ASK to be on a team with?

Mike literally asked Will to be his teammate and I will NEVER get over how LOADED with symbolism, depth, and metaphor this scene is. Because by the time this happened ...

Will and Mike had agreed to be a TEAM. And here, Will is quite literally saying 'WE ❤️ YOU TIGERS', cheering his team on. Not just 'me', but 'all of us', you're our LEADER. To Will, Mike is the equivalent of Jason, and to Mike, Will is the equivalent of Chrissy. I anticipate we'll see a reverse in S5, with Mike cheering Will on now, and Will guiding the party, or perhaps, finally, a combination of them both cheering each other on and guiding the party to victory, S5 is the season they claim that championship trophy.

Now, I'm not comparing Jason and Chrissy to Byler but if we want to talk duality, boy is this loaded. Because they do have certain similarities that require a way more nuanced analysis that I can't fit into this post, but I'll be talking about it later.

We all know that it was Will's speech to Mike that inspired Mike's own 'love confession' ... but have we ever considered ... that the reason why the Benny's Burger's comment was necessary, as odd as it felt, and these S4 Christmas Lights associations are because ... Mike had a previous memory/association with Will related to Benny's Burgers when he met El?

The reason why I am starting to suspect this is because Mike and Joyce's S1 and S4 arcs are similar. Going above and beyond to helping their love interest, who is 'stuck' in a place they cannot physically reach alone. Joyce even received a literal message.

WE LITERALLY SEE MIKE'S EYES IMMEDIATELY PAN DOWN TO ELEVENS SHIRT ... As if he was looking for context. Who is this??? It is IMPOSSIBLE that there was love at first sight going on here because the circumstances are just so ... dire. The boys were out looking for their missing friend, in the dark, under the rain. Low visibility, etc. It was just not the right circumstances at all.

And the Duffers did NOT have to choose this exact moment as the 'Moment'. They did this deliberately to throw the audience off. And it worked. So let me propose something slightly delusional, but that yet again, probably makes more sense (at least to me following the show's context clues and crumbs) than something as shallow as 'love at first sight'.

Do we not think it might be possible that Michael 'maybe all of this is happening for a reason' Wheeler, saw that Benny's Burger t-shirt and immediately thought ... Will, or the universe, or something was sending him a message? Somehow, this person was connected to Will? That this person was the KEY to finding him? Do we not think he might've made that realization earlier, and on top of that him being a kind child took her home to help her? As she was not speaking much, maybe he thought he'd been stupid for thinking of her as some sort of sign, only to have his first gut instinct proven RIGHT when she CONFIRMED knowing Will?

He did feel love at that moment, and it was because he saw El as a literal light in the darkness and thought it was some sort of sign that either Will was sending or a sign that this person was the key to finding him.

I have heard some Bylers talk about how this comment:

Means that Mike feels his life started when he found El, because he felt like it ended when he lost Will. And that might have some merit.

Mike's monologue to Eleven may just very well be an amalgamation of the mess that is Mike Wheeler's feelings for both El and Will. He loves them both, but he loves El as someone he aspires to be, while he loves Will as someone he aspires to be with.

I'm skipping over a lot of details as other Bylers have spoken about them before (such as Hopper saying 'what if after all of this time I have been looking for Will I have been chasing after some other kid?' being context we could apply to Mike as well) because I think this whole association of Will and Benny's Burger that Mike has of Will is something that could very realistically come up sometime in S5.

It takes ONE simple line of dialogue linking Will to Benny's Burgers for every single domino to fall into place.

And being honest, if I follow my Joyce spidey senses, I get a strong feeling that the duffers have already given us that context, and it is hidden somewhere within the show already.

[bookshelfmonkey]

Ok let's go. Top to bottom, left to right.

Charles Vane: Something we learn pretty early on about Vane is that he doesn't think long-term. He can't think of wanting much more than just power/control (as quite abstract concepts, and only in Nassau) and when he has them, he's never fully happy about it. His relationship with Eleanor is unhealthy both ways (i.e. it's not just him treating her like shit, but also the other way around), and he's just generally rarely in any kind of situation that's actually good for him, despite probably having the resources to create one. The joke's on you bit comes from how a lot of people (especially Flint & Eleanor), when negotiating with him, base their arguments off an assumption that he wants something more, or even has much of a sense of self worth and, through these negotiations, often fail. He does grow in late s2/s3 but, as I said in the tags, boxes must be filled for charts to exist.

Jack Rackham: Jack's almost the reverse of Vane in that people keep trying to deal with him by humiliating him and taking away his sense of self-worth and it just never works. He knows what he wants and fully believes he can achieve it and we'll all be damned if he didn't do just that.

Eleanor Guthrie: Similar to Vane, Eleanor never seems to be in a fully happy, healthy, or sustainable situation. Her being a bisexual woman in the 18th century does factor into this, making it harder for her to get and maintain the life she wants, but another key obstacle is that she does often accept bad situations. Also this was an excuse to be a Richard Guthrie hater (I'm his biggest hater, if he has no haters I'm dead, etc.)

The next row is a bit sillier but I still have shit to say.

Max: Initially I did put Max in "you underestimate how much I value myself" and I also stand by that, but boxes had to be filled so she was moved here. We have absolutely 0 confirmation that she's attracted to men and I imagine that would make a lot of straight men very upset and I love it.

Flint: Another more obvious one. This is both a comment on the intial reception of the show where a lot of, again, straight men were very upset that the hero, the (fairly) masculine guy who's in charge and fights people and all that shit, is also incredibly gay, and the fact that, among all the myths that are constructed around Flint in the show, basically no one works out what actually motivates him/what his backstory is.

Silver: In the specific context of this post, it's probably worth noting that I do believe that, in his confused, messed-up way, Silver did love Flint. This may not have been romantic but also it very well could have been. This is also a broader commentary on Silver as a character. A lot of his flaws seem to come from internalising unhealthy ideals (toxic masculinity, ableism, etc.) so it's not a massive stretch to include potentially homophobia in there. And, much like their external counterparts, internalised bigotries are learned from experience/society/other people. We never fully see him learning this, but I don't doubt that Silver's various internalised issues are very much learned.

Anne Bonny: Again, this is another case of simplifying things to fill boxes but I do find it almost a little funny that Anne was literally on her deathbed refusing to forgive Max for just surviving and sticking to the values that she's held since before they even met. Idelle had to borderline threaten her until she fully grasped why Max had acted the way she had and forgave her for it.

Billy Bones: This especially speaks to s2 Billy, where everyone expects him to lose his shit over Flint possibly trying to kill him, definitely killing Gates (i.e. his father) and Silver literally imprisoning him just after he's returned, but somehow he still stays with Flint. I know he does finally lose his shit around s4, but I'm honestly impressed he lasted that long.

Madi: This is yet another example of me simplifying things, but this is especially about the end of the show. For more context of my interpretation of things, I don't believe Madi and Silver ended up together. I believe the last scene on the cliff was the closest they ever got to each other again, and I believe this is because of Madi's strong sense of self-worth. Silver lied to her and sabotaged her plans, and, even if he did it out of a strange sense of love, it should not be forgiven. It's "unfortunate" because who hasn't been in a relationship where they want to stay even if they know it's unhealthy (and I do believe that Madi did love Silver and the pain of their breakup likely went both ways, even if she did know it was for the best), but Madi has been raised to hold a strong sense of self-worth and knows that she shouldn't settle for someone who has treated her like that.

[goldengashes]

Hi, just wanted to ask will you be watching season 4 and what were your thoughts on both portwell and r*na's development? What about all of them as characters? I personally was rooting for r*na in season 1. But after watching most of season 2, I prefer portwell and probably won't watch season 3 after the mess they made. I'd have been okay with r*na if the narrative made sense but sorry to say Gina has been a "maybe" to Ricky. She picked the guy she wanted since S1, but she seems to forget he's not really deserving of her attention at all after he's blown her off and asked her for relationship advice knowing she liked him. Like come on do better girl.

hey, thanks for the ask! hope you're well, anon.

i'll answer this as briefly and structured as i possibly can but i highly doubt it lmao. possible rant ahead (?)

okay so s4... i can't say that i won't tune in because essentially, i'm a huge sofia wylie fan. i've loved her since andi mack and everything she's ever put out with disney, i've watched (plus sge). and aside from that, the s4 plot (the whole og hsm movie reunion thing/wildcats being extras on the movie) is being hyped up a lot and i'm intrigued to see how that plays out. outside of the triangle, i love kourtney, carlos, ash, jet and maddox as characters. i'd probably just scroll thru hsmtmts twitter posts/tumblr tags to see the scenes/discourse/takes and use it to determine whether i'd watch or not. i've abandoned more shows (esp ongoing ones) than i have finished so... we'll see.

if you want me to be honest, gina is the reason i shipped portwell. in s1, the only person from the core four i truly rooted for was gina. i couldn't care less about ricky, nini and ej characters and plotlines (plus their weird 'love triangle'). i wouldn't call myself a rina in s1, but i was rooting for gina's character to be more vulnerable and possibly finding romance. she's this tough girl who's never really fit in because she had to move so much and i truly sympathized with her. in that homecoming scene with ricky, i actually did feel chemistry between them. now looking back, it's probably just sofia and joshua's acting that made that scene more that it actually was. but by the end of s1, it's clear rini was that season's endgame. i mean, the main plot of s1 was ricky being in the play to get nini back. i also believe they were going to be endgame if olivia hadn't left. and before anyone says s2 was filmed before driver's license and sour blew up, i know! but just think about it: with 'all i want' doing well and blowing up on tiktok the previous year and olivia working with a producer at interscope records (not under disney) for her new album since 2020, i think she was planning to move on to music before the script was written. hence ricky and nini's plotline for a 'final' breakup.

moving on to s2... in s2, i didn't like how in 2a gina's whole storyline was crying/pining over ricky who doesn't really reach out to her after the one exercise where gina rejects him. up to 205, i understood ricky might've been conflicted and confused about gina's feelings for him, he had his relatioship with nini and his family drama to worry about. but since that whole 'plane crash' scene pretty much checks out as a confession, it just didn't make sense for ricky to act the way he did in 205. after the whole "if you and i were dating..." thing he pulled, i could not ship rina at all. all the doors i had open for them, i shut. he was so out of line and so disrespectful. he only cared about nini in that scene (while also stepping over nini's boundaries about being in the play). and c'mon, this boy at least knows gina and him are at this weird stage where they aren't purely friends and there's feelings involved. so why would he say that? now, when i saw ej and gina's scene in the same episode, they got me immediately. and it all sort of aligned with their history and personalities—overconfident, 'anti-hero', ex-scheming partners. now that i think about it, i didn't like rina before i loved portwell. and portwell? well, i think they're neat. midgame ship this, plot device that, i don't really mind. i'm thankful for their development in 2b because it was a breath of fresh air for someone who loves and roots for gina. and ej grew on me, too. in s1 he was this straight up himbo disney villain for but in s2 he was given more dimension in his character, had relatable struggles and we were shown a more vulnerable and attentive side to him. my top reason for shipping pw is the fact they started becoming better people together and they got each other because of that. the whole 'new ej' and 'gina 2.0' thing was probably a happy accident, hence why tim didn't really dig further into that. but on the other hand, they're different in a lot of ways. gina wants to settle down in one place and ej doesn't know what he wants—we even find that he wants to break free from the mold his dad wants him to be. i wish that would be something they help each other out with—he is her constant and comfort and she's the person who grounds and challenges him. instead, it becomes a point where they fail (looking at you, s3!). and whether you are a rina/pw anti, there's no denying ej treated gina like a queen in s2. portwell in 205-210 will always have me by the neck. and even though 211 and 212 makes me recoil, i personally don't blame ej for tapping out from their date with the whole 'brother' thing. just like gina, he's scared of putting himself out there to get hurt.

now, s3. i like to joke about the fact that it didn't exist but honestly? minus the triangle, it was pretty entertaining and funny. i liked maddox's character a lot in particular, she reminds me of me. i loved that kourtney has a character arc. i love ej more after watching s3, he's become one of my fav characters. now, i don't know if i'll get booed for this by the pws but i wish pw would have not been a couple while gina is still in hs. not because of the whole age gap thing (which is ridiculous), but i genuinely think they'd suit that bff-to-lovers slow burn. thank god i have tsbu because the way tsbu!pw plays out is exactly how i imagined it would be. but alas, we see portwell deteriorate in s3. and ofc it was painful to witness but less so because they felt off to me. they weren't really the s2 pw i knew and loved. trust me i don't say this bc they broke up, i say it's the lack of banter and moments of vulnerability (which they should have more of bc they're a couple here!). also the ej caswell i know would've broken the rules and took gina as a date, honestly. like, he literally gave a girl food poisoning so he can star in a show with nini. now, i do believe that gina and ej being in different phases of their lives was a good reason for their breakup, she's got 2 years of hs left and his world is getting bigger than just hs. i mean, like i said before, i wished they'd have that two-year, slow-burn best friends-to-lovers arc. my biggest problem with ej and gina's story was the execution. there were hundreds of ways to write them being right person/wrong time and they'd still mean a lot to each other etc. i'd actually be okay with them ending. but with the whole 'i can't be a maybe anymore' and 'can it really be over, if it never got the chance to start?' rubs me the wrong way. it's like tim really wanted everyone to see that ej is at fault here (despite whatever tim's saying in interviews) when he's doing all of this so his girlfriend and his friends would 1) have a great summer in this place that's really important to him and 2) have this great opportunity to be on disney+, which is a huge deal. specifically, for gina, he wanted to make a good show bc we all know how much finally being casted as a lead is important to her. ej could've just walked away, given up and let this thing fall into shambles, but he didn't. it didn't just cost him time with gina, it costed him his whole summer. it was all weird writing for me. and as for rina? firstly, i find it odd that the rinas were rooting for gina emotionally cheating on ej. even sofia said that gina's not that type of girl and she genuinely wanted her and ej to work. personally, i didn't find ricky pining for gina cute at all. ik a lot of people see it as a parallel for season 2a when gina secretly pines over ricky while he's still with nini. but the context here is different now, isn't it? gina never received a confession (or any sort of sign ricky wanted to be around her) before she got with ej. in fact, ricky was busy with lily and was close enough with her to spend summer with her and her parents in florida?? like i don't know, it just feels like ricky's feelings stemmed out of nowhere which made it seem shallow and not the epic love tim is pushing it to be. again, sofia and josh are great actors, the wdykal scene had so much chemistry but it was just that. the context/history of rina is extremely shallow to me. they needed val to say 'yup, he's genuinely heartsick' instead of just letting josh's acting show it. another thing i should mention is the instances where ricky was so passive-aggressive about ej and gina. the part where jet ran off and they needed a hans to sing liaod with anna (gina), he was going to volunteer to step in because he had feelings for her and was visibly pissed off when cordon told ej to sub for jet. and there's ricky slapping ej, which was an ick moment bc it made him seem entitled rather than badass.

lastly, that one shot of him finding out nini was at camp? "nini's here?" yeah? that one scene had more emotional fuel than ricky spending the whole two weeks max crushing on gina. it sort of set back the whole rina development, i have to say it.

speaking of nini, her sendoff wasn't as satisfying as i expected it to be. in s3, i'd prefer it if she moved to california because she got a record deal or something? since s3 was already so meta, that would've been much better than her moving out to cali because her moms wanted to. back to s1, i feel like she was your stereotypical shy, main character with the usual 'gaining confidence' arc and that arc was sort of boring and overdone for me. but in s2 i really enjoyed her branching out to songwriting and stepping side to help out others. plus, i think people skip over how awful ricky was to her as well. first, he takes a break and feels entitled to get her back and second, he genuinely started suffocating the poor girl in s2. well, at least he realized it, though. again, when people say rini was toxic, it's really just ricky. nini did nothing wrong in s1-2. i don't think the rose song was even about ricky, he just made it into something it wasn't supposed to be. i sincerely hope ricky loses this behaviour in s4.

anyway! end of rant. these are just my thoughts. if anyone agrees or disagrees, it's up to them. i genuinely hope gina is happy next season, bc before i was a pw stan i was a gina stan (even though she was a little ooc in s3). if it means rina being happy, i won't be so mad. at the end of the day, this is just a silly disney show and it’s all for entertainment. i do love portwell but i rather tim never touch them again, honestly. canon pw is already ruined for me, though i wouldn't mind a proper portwell closure scene in s4.

that was a lot more words than i expected lmaoo, but if anyone read all of that, cool! if not, that's cool, too. it was very cathartic.

[matan4il]

I am very much like you. I manage and keep my expectations very low for my ships. Like the cell block episode, I was one of the few who was like let's not get ahead of ourselves. And I was grateful because it was a great episode and lead to great things but had I wrote a different story in my head I would have been disappointed

So that's why I hate that all this us making me excited. The promo, the using of Ryan and Oliver. Even 2 weeks ago the nervous Buck arriving at Hens.

I actually feel comfortable getting in my head and I kind of hate it because I don't want it to be underwhelming.

I guess I was wondering where you were at head space wise after all this? Feeling very confident? Because I was honestly thinking if they went Canon in 6 it would be the end of the season and now I feel like shit could it really be the hiatus.

HI lovely Nonnie!

First of all, I hope it's okay to send you a hug! I get that feeling of being torn between like that initial buzz of excitement that things might be moving in that direction on the one hand, and the desire not to be set up for disappointment.

I have to say, I've seen the fandom getting SO excited and sure that canon Buddie was going to happen after 303 and Eddie's "there's nobody I trust in this world with my son more than you," after 309 with the kitchen flirting (that one had especially nasty fallout when 310 came and went without any canon Buddie), ahead of s4 when people started speculating Buddie spent covid as roommates, after the shooting in 413 and ahead of s5, around 506 as we started learning details about Buddie being held together at gun point after the shooting arc, around 517 when we gathered that Eddie was going home and he was going to confront Ramon and a lot of people thought it would be revealed that Eddie was punished by his dad for being gay. I also tried to assess the likelihood of this, because it was implied we'll learn about some unknown until now trauma, and I was wrecking my brain to find something that would fit Eddie, that would fit the tone of the show (i.e not too dark) and that wouldn't just be more of the same stuff we already know. Turned out, it was more of the same toxic masculinity stuff we knew about.

The thing is, it would have made sense for Buddie to go canon at any one of those points. It would have made sense to unveil some teenage experience that made Eddie suppress any same-sex attractions he might have only started becoming aware of. And yet none of that happened, so I'm glad that I did manage my expectations, and kept reminding myself that just because it's fun to scream now, doesn't mean I won't be disappointed later.

Obviously, I would rather not be disappointed during actually watching the eps. So, if I'm not married to a specific scenario I built up in my head, I end up being much more content while watching. And of course, as I said here, I do wanna feel happy about the show even if Buddie will never become canon. But more than that, I do wanna believe that eventually we will get canon Buddie. Because nothing else will ever fit either one of those guys, and because I wanna believe in our show being brave enough to go there.

So if and when we do get canon Buddie, I know that celebrating it, screaming and jumping up and down, and just basically losing my goddamn mind would be that much better, precisely because it's not something I'm doing constantly, every time there's a shadow of a possibility that it'll happen soon. I'm reserving all that for when it's the real thing, and that's gonna make how hyped I will be when it finally happens special and that much sweeter.

So am I seeing signs that might mean Buddie could go canon in s6? There are some. IDK that I would say they're definitive. We've had both Buck and Eddie be single at the same time with both of them getting out of meaningful relationships before. Ryan and Oli doing an interview together is awesome, but it's one interview that we know about so far, right? Not more than that. So maybe it's meaningful, or maybe it's Fox feeling 911 needs to do more promoting for its ratings, and why not send in the most popular pair on the show? Based on experience from previous fandoms, I don't put much stock into social media stuff. It's why I wasn't that distressed when Ryan and Oliver unfollowed each other, and it's also why, while I'm glad they've re-followed each other, I wouldn't try to read too much into it. Much like the interview, it could be very meaningful, but it might be about something we're not even aware of and that has nothing to do with Buddie going canon.

So I'm very much in my cool, calm and collected element, which IMO is a good thing. It's not me being Debbie Downer. It's me saving the celebrations for when 911 takes us all out like a freaking sniper in the middle of a shooting arc. Too soon? ;) Sorry, my sense of humor is lame. But I hope that in spite of me not being hyped, this reply isn't a disappointing one to you, darling! xoxox

(If you’re looking for my ask replies, here is my ask tag! xoxox)

[chubearr]

jwcc s4 review (finally)

》spoilers ahead

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okay so like ima try to be the most chill and unbiased with this review— i read some others that brought up good points that i didnt see at first, so now thats what ima try to do!

-the biggest fan complaint, kenlynn/cool kids/brookji:

alot of fans are super pissed abt this, and at first it didnt make sense but now i can kindaaa? understand it. my general take is that s1 & s2 the kids were just vibin and surviving, getting to know each other and etc. i think kenji started to have a crush on brook esp in s3, since they were paired up/talked a lot (when brook fought with darius, when sammy got posioned, when darius split up with the group to get ben when leaving the island and brook was worried) so they were kinda getting closer and comfotrable with each other already. and like kenji even confirmed in s4, he realized his feelings for brook when she got taken away, hence his fight with darius (i imagine he was super confused n frustrated abt it.. poor boy). and personally at the end of s3 when kenji got mad, i did find that overprotectiveness weird and was kinda thinking it was bc he liked her! so overall the crush reveal was not a surprise, but i was more surprise that it actually happened! as for brooklyn i think her feelings for kenji were never really developed until they got closer in s4; kenji being a doof and possibly his trueself? and realizing how alike they were made her start to like him a bit? and then he semi-admitted he liked her so she got super confused as well (maybe bc she didnt know if it was platonic or romantic). then yasmina basically opened her eyes, and i think after that brooklyn was thinkin a lot, and spending even more time with kenji she realized she liked him as well...

i admit they couldve done better to show brooklyns development into liking kenji in previous seasons, bc tbh i see both darius and brooklyn being equally super chill with everyone (tho im biased for benrius!).

i think bc the season went by super fast unlike previous seasons, it made kenlynn develop fast as well so it didn't look that well written. tbh even i myself was supperrr shocked that they actually made it bf-gf official! i even wouldve been fine with just confirmed crushes this season, but the ship is probably gonna go through it next season (esp considering the plot twist in the end of the last episode... someone protect kenji pls)

but overall, ship it or not, i still dont think fans should be too angry and crazy at kenlynn shippers or the writers etc. like no one knows where this is gonna go, so we'll just have to wait and see. shouldn't we just enjoy it while it lasts? i think kenji and brooklyn need some type of break from the chaos, and if they wanna be together thats fine by me. same for the other kids! i hope if theyre getting romance arcs that itd be similar screentime as kenlynn and maybe even better developed (i still think yasammy is gonna be the finale ship idk..)

one thing i do wish now is that their charas this season werent too much revolved around each other, but ig thats how it goes! at least we learned more abt them both anyway (theyre both lonely and sheltered kids... also, BROOKLYNN HAS DADS!) and yes im ignoring we still dont have a brooklynn last name reveal smh...

as for the age thing.. idk im not bothered tbh. its like what, a 2 year difference? so thats fine by me, i can see it realistically (if it were any bigger i would def understand the isssue). i dont think the writers are intending anything sus for that or anything— as long as these kids are all kids and just vibin im fine with that. kids have crushes, no biggie.

overall not a surprise to me or a bother! next.

-sammy:

i feel like her character is always the same throughout the seasons so i always found her boring and wanted the crew to work on her. this season was alright! its good they didnt let her issue with her fam die down (tbh i almost forgot thats why she came to the camp), her anger moment, although a lil reckless, made sense esp since we already know her fam obvi means the world to her. i liked her realization with the spinoceratops¿ (angel n rebel) was bc of her and her development from pity to saving them was good! still wish they couldve showed more yasammy, but slow and steady wins the race ig! the deal with mantahcorp (idk if thats how u spell it oops) got even bigger now bc of kenjis dad and im scared for her bestie relationship with kenji 😭 im scared for that whole drama in general but with sammy and her fam as a victim... send help to my kids pls!

-yasmina:

a lot of people send she was so out of character this season (mainly with the kenlynn thing) but tbh? i think this version of her is her real self. even tho she was more colder in previous seasons, we're not new to yasmina being a super supportive friend otherwise. and like she said, sammy is the one who brought out those feelings! i really liked this mischeavous side of her, and ben friendzoning her was the funniest thing!

im superrr pleased with the whole PTSD thing. like most kids shows dont take that trauma seriously and just shove it aside. but not jwcc, and thats prob why im so attached to the show is bc they arent afraid to commit (a kids show where people actually die?? coming after my own heart i see...)!!

i know we prob shouldve had more experiences from the other camp fam, but maybe its good they made this a mainly yasmina thing bc we're so used to seeing her be strong for the team. weak yaz make me weak myself... let her sleep pls.

-ben:

bens whole finding out his identity arc was pretty much perfect. im glad they brought up how panicked he was bc he knew isla nublar so well but now he knew nothing and felt like he was reverting back to scared-ben... but we all know that ben is just ben now! i hope he can get more actual moments with the others bc hes been so independent all these seasons (aromantic king maybe..?)!! a lot of fans like him but tbh /dont kill me/ so far he was always my least fav kid out of the crew.. but i did like him more with his whole s3 thing with darius! so maybe just having him spend time with the others and being himself is the key!! (also more benrius moments pls.. theyre such the mom n dad of the group idc what yall say!!) and his ptsd with the pterodactyl or whatev things? it hurted but im happy he was able to fight back this time!!

-darius:

i didnt get fans complaint with his arc this season at first but after reading some reviews, now i do a bit! now in weirded out as to why darius has like 0 trauma.. maybe its bc he loves dinos so much that overall it doesnt bother him? esp bc dinos are what connects him to his dad the most and etc... and i saw people talk abt him being super leader-y this season but i didnt see much of a difference? he was always the one everyone looked to for answers so i wasnt surprised that he made his own decisions again— everyone still trusts him and knew what he chose was the right thing to do. but they didnt tell him abt their ptsd so obviously darius wouldnt know abt it bc all of their bonds are so strong that i think darius trusted them to tell him anything (but since they didnt he was obv blinded to their true feelings??). and surprisingly a lot of fans seemed to think he was out of character or smth when choosing the phone over the dinos? but i think it was good development bc it showed that even tho he loves dinos to death, he would still do anything for his friends (esp bc they told him they had ptsd). im glad in how he handled it!

one thing i agree on with others is that he definitely deserved some more screentime. mainly with the other kids, and less solo screentime, like the other seasons!... yes i admit, kenlynn and kenji did overshadow him a lot, but at least i believe its to build up the plot twist in the end for kenji and onto the next season (maybe theyre giving each kid arcs? and s1 was mainly darius's? idk tbh!)

i loved how darius handled kash— who i hate and pls let big eatie eat him already...

darius is just so smart and damn im jealous! that kid can think fast and improvise like breathing, no surprise he's the leader (and brooklyn being second in command to the group was very interesting).

》others:

-mae was a fine character! i like how quirky she is, and finally not an evil or dead adult 😭 but it was funny how even so she still got injured and was out of commission the whole time... can someone just save my kids and not die, pls theyre too traumatized!! (ps where are the camp counselors who i 100% forgot their names— are the gonna come back or naw...)

-i agree with others, kash is a weak villain. but tbh i feel like he was that annoying and ridiculous to just blind us with the ep11 plot twist aka the REAL villain¿ (i keep mentioning this but ill talk abt it soon i swear). the robots were boring i do admit as well, maybe it wouldve been better if they were like.. dino robots? to help with the island but also be disguised with the other dinos? idk tbh!

-darius's brother who i forget his name... im rootin for him obv! maybe he'll get the camp counselors to help him out and they'll slowburn their way to help the kids? i hope we get more of the mainland stuff bc like.. is no one worried that 6 kids are still missing from the island??! like maybe they do think theyre dead after all (which angsty thats so rude im cryin) but is there like really nothing they can do? get chris pratt on the case already!!!

-and lastly? i think? EP 11/SEASON ENDING. how dare you. how dare you!!! like ive seen other peoole say that they guessed it, but i legit had 0 clue bc i literally never think abt the adult characters period.. BUT HOW DARE YOU ANYWAY!! so ya.. kenjis dad— i can't even say it. I WAS NOT SEEING THAT. like even rewatching that episode i still gasp like ive never seen it bc its so unreal to me... its so good. it pretty much made up whatever complaints i had before! first "appearance" i literally was like who tf is 'daniel' (bc the subs) and i thought it wouldve been a character they already introduced previously! but ig technically they have (even tho i didnt know his connection to kenji until he literally said dad..).

im super hyped for the next season esp bc of this.. LIKE KENJI IS GONNA GO THROUGH IT! who he'll have to choose, the dino and camp fam or his actual dad... and again sammys reaction? i am not ready. like maybe theyll handle it easy and let mrkon have a change of heart bc of his son, but i also really want them to spice it up and make him a serious villain? (ik whats wrong with me) but like consider the contrast itll be compared to darius's dad... like darius and kenji can have a real test of their bond bc of this... and yes i also feel like this will test kenlynn, bc just kenjis dad being here just changes the whole game in general. like will kenji be reverted back to his selfish n spoiled ways and it'll cause a rift between him and brook/campfam?? theres too many questions and possibilities... WHAT IS GONNA HAPPEN?? im so worried..

and i know kenji is a fan favorite, so i wish people were freaking out more over this than ships...

SOMEONE PLS FREAK OUT WITH ME!!

- overall i rate this season 9/10 (originally 10/10 so not much difference but i did put more thought into it...?)

if you guys follow my crackheadness in other posts i probably seem insane but i hope this review levels it out a bit? i hope i got everything..

》 pls feel free to discuss with me in replies! i really do wanna connect with some jwcc fans even tho im alao scared bc all i see are angry fans 😭 we'll see! ima try to be more stable and less angry now this review is out.. if you managed to get through it all, thx! and sorry for typos or if it doesnt make sense, it sounds better in my head i swear..

[sevensided]

so what are your thoughts on s4, and vol. 2 in particular? thoughts on will x mike? will you want to watch s5?

I'm absolutely going to watch S5! However, thinking of the time between seasons and where I am in my personal life, I'm not sure if I'll be as... active as I am now. But I'll still watch it and enjoy it, no doubt. This has been a part of my life for a long time so I have to see it through.

I mentioned it briefly in my previous post, but I thought this season was excellent. The production quality was amazing, and though they overdid the music a little, I loved the soundtrack and the use of contemporary songs to underscore plot points. I also enjoyed the stories from a general perspective. Hawkins was by far the strongest subplot, but the lab did give it a run for its money, at times. I'm perhaps in the minority who think that we didn't quite need as much lab time, because it was so much build up for what we already could infer, and I thought the doubling up of El being bullied by the other numbers was... on the nose. Still, I enjoyed it. We'll ignore the California plot.

I think what this season did well was the atmosphere. It also used some heavy topics to drive the story forward and it never felt gratuitous. I loved that they made it clear that they're 'not kids anymore', which felt like an authentic continuation from S3's central qualms.

Mike and Will are complicated for me, because I still see the potential there, and if that makes me a clown, I'll own that fact. Many of their scenes were wonderfully done and both Finn and Noah totally knocked it out of the park, acting wise. Noah with his trembling eyes will always get me; I'll admit I got a bit misty watching his anguish play out on screen.

However, they definitely rushed their relationship. Considering the consideration paid to Lumax (which was the standout of the season, in my view), this fell flat.

BUT. And this is me being able to see many sides of the coin... I do wonder how many more scenes they could have written of Mike and Will essentially having the same conversation over and over without it being clear that there's a romantic undercurrent and that's what the hold up is? I mean, it's obvious to anyone with eyes that Will is head-over-heels for Mike, and you could say that Mike is... while not quite oblivious, I think he's choosing to squash that knowledge down because he's just got Will back as a friend and he's not ready for that next hurdle just yet. I've seen some people call Mike homophobic for this, which I don't quite understand. He's doing his best.

In all, I think that many of the core partnerships went unresolved, namely Jonathan/Nancy and Mike/Will. Even Mike/El, to an extent, but that is a separate post. Does this mean we'll finally get an S5 pay-off? That would be nice. I won't hold my breath, but I would enjoy that very much. So... let's hope.

[loving-villanelle]

After s3 Sandra was also talking about Villaneve saying things like "the only person I can rest with is you" and "they can only trust each other". So it absolutely baffles me that s4 is the way it is. Like you said, it looks like they will come to this same conclusion and realization at the end of this season as they already were on the bridge. That's so f*cking stupid I can't

Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. That has ALWAYS been the downfall of Killing Eve. Because you can't keep the cat and cat game going forever. There has to be progression. And for all the terrible things we say about s3 (and rightfully so) the one thing that can't be denied is that it is the only season that has ever dropped the cat and cat game long enough to give us any sort of progression. It's the only season that ever let us witness two honest, soul bearing conversations between these women where they both let down their masks and surrendered to this pull between them. The BIGGEST mistake the show made was having them turn back. If they had walked away from each other on the bridge and never turned back, this would all make perfect sense! Villanelle literally said "now we walk and don't look back". This season, for Eve anyway, has been all about not looking back. But Eve not only DID look back, she was the first one to look back! She was the one not willing to walk away. She wanted or needed Villanelle so much that she looked back!!! That act was so monumental! It was so incredibly groundbreaking and introduced such a shift that we all spent 2 years building up what it could all mean. When walking away was an option that Eve didn't take, how does it make any sense to revert back and be like "well yeah she looked back, but then was actually like hmm yeah I am still going to walk away though". It literally doesn't make any sense, because they both so clearly were not willing or able to let go of the other! They weren't able to walk away and not look back. Yet that's where this season picked up. In the most jarring of ways, because again, that choice to look back gave us every indication that walking away was not an option.

So I don't get it. I want to scream because they were given a gift with the s3 finale and the progression that transpired during it, only for them to ultimately decide to hit the reset button once again. It made sense when Villaneve were still dancing in circles around one another and hadn't faced what exactly it was that draws them together. But once that happened, the logical move would've been to delve further into that and explore it. And to say that wouldn't be interesting is such crap! I've never had more fun on this show than when I watched Villanelle and Eve work on the Aaron Peele case together. There was drama, comedy, tension, attraction. You name it and it was all there. So for them to claim that there was no way to have Villaneve together this season without it becoming boring is such complete bull. I can't tell you the fun I would've had watching them they do this investigation together all season. Villanelle telling Eve she looked cute in her disguises, Eve getting annoyed at Villanelle for being impulsive and going offscript from a plan they laid out. Villanelle helping Eve to train to improve physically, while Eve helps Villanelle master the investigative side of things. All of this would've had me giddy and intrigued and invested and over the moon! But we didn't get it and never will at this point. Not enough of it anyway. And it just sucks that there was so much build up with no payoff. But unfortunately it's something we'll just have to live with

[loving-villanelle]

Y'know what's getting to me over this whole "Jodie and/or Sandra feel this way about the show/finale/ending or Jodie and/or Sandra are complicit with the show/finale/ending because they said X Y Z" bullshit?!

I've 'said' and 'behaved' outwardly in particular ways as a closeted queer for over thirty years for a whole clusterfuck of reasons and I promise you that most of the time it has in NO way every really truly reflected how I ACTUALLY feel! And in fact I expect is why the majority of people in my real life probably still believe to this day that I'm straight.

Just because people may say or behave a particular way about a thing doesn't mean that's how they actually feel.

Now I'm in no way suggesting that the various things certain anons have suggested somehow prove this is indeed how Jodie and Sandra feel about the show isn't a possibility.

I'm just saying that people often say and do things to protect themselves - for personal reasons and professional reasons.

Frankly, how they feel about the ending - for better or worse - is entirely their own business.

And EVEN if they did think the ending and fate of their characters was absolutely perfection itself, I don't think that automatically equates to them somehow knowingly or intentionally being complicit or part of the BYG/homophobic narration going around (whether or not that is in fact accurate in itself - people can make bad writing and storytelling choices without INTENTIONALLY gunning for the gays! Sometimes it really is just ignorance or subconscious bias - not making excuses for it, not defending it, nor am I saying that wasn't the case at all and they were, I'm just trying to offer an explanation and playing devil's advocate).

I wish people would just back off Sandra and Jodie for how they may or may not feel about the ending. They're professional actors who I expect want to enjoy a career beyond Killing Eve, and so being seen to publicly bad mouth your past employers would not fare well with potential employers! Even with the best intentions it could be career suicide. I would never blame them for publicly keeping their cards to their chest over this because regardless of how they do feel about it, there will undoubtedly be backlash from one side or the other.

We'll probably never ever know the full truth behind how they feel and I'm totally fine with that.

It's THEIR business. Just like me being queer and how I deal with it is mine.

Right like I knew just from the pre-season interviews that whatever fresh hell Killing Eve was going to give us, it wasn't going to be good. I have spent 3 seasons watching Sandra and Jodie be excited and smiley and giggly while hyping up the forthcoming season. None of that was present in the s4 promotions. The only time we saw that side of them was when they did the game night with Josh Horowitz and got to spend some time not having to talk about the upcoming season. I've never heard Jodie say "mmmmm" so many times in my life. I've never heard Sandra sigh so many times in my life. I've never seen them both take such ridiculously long pauses before answering a question. And I've never seen them both cringe so much or make facial expressions that were anything but encouraging. I kept saying "Thank god for them because like...I'm genuinely prepared for the season to be shit now!" Lmaoooo the joke was on me, because I still wasn't prepared for just how absolutely trash it was! But I had already gotten that impression loud and clear from Jodie and Sandra before the season ever even began

I honestly never expected Jodie and/or Sandra to say much on the finale, no matter how it ended. My opinion on that hasn't changed just because it ended so much worse than we could've possibly imagined. I knew from the pre-season interviews how they felt. There wasn't much to expand on outside of that, especially when they can't speak openly about it. So I'm not surprised that we haven't heard anything from them, nor did I expect any different. Killing Eve is over. They have other projects. This was one show in their filmography of work. We may be stuck on it, but it doesn't mean they are or that they have any obligation to be. The only positive thing Jodie and Sandra EVER said about the finale is that they got to be together and they were really happy about that. There's really nothing else to be said, so they are moving on and I love that for them because really...they don't owe anymore of their time to a show that was never able to do them or the talent they brought to the table justice