#how am I supposed to theorize without that core knowledge?

[alockandkey]

(Please note that I haven’t the slightest clue how links work in tumblr so if it looks wonky that’s why)

So in this post: https://www.tumblr.com/cornyflow3r/721600664296456192/not-sure-if-all-of-this-is-purposeful-but-im

cornyflow3r is talking about how Jack was talking about how a lot of the stuff associated with characters is also commonly associated with children and my brain had two immediate thoughts.

1, less theory more saying words) what if (as cornyflow3r says) the “actors” were kidnapped as children and have been at/with Showfall their entire lives and these childish details are residuals (maybe from trauma, but idk how trauma works so who knows)? This does get shot down kinda by the one picture on one of the twitter accounts that had all of the missing posters and things (going off memory as I don’t have twitter so I can’t look) that if I remember right had pictures of Ranboo at their current age. But then again that doesn’t rule out everyone else and I’ve seen multiple theories of Charlie having grown up in Showfall.

2) what if the show was originally for kids? What if it’s just devolved into the horror creation it is now. That could explain having child actors. It could also be an example of generation loss if we consider all the streams episodes in a tv series. And maybe the “episodes” don’t take place back-to-back, maybe there’s other stuff in between that we don’t see, filler content to increase viewer retention (like putting a sponsor segment in the middle of a video, no one really wants it there but it’s there, and since gen loss is live they wouldn’t be able to skip) or add suspense (again viewer retention).

[iamanartichoke]

I wasn't sure if I was going to post this, but I may as well.

I keep starting to reply to things and then stopping bc the words just aren't there, and I suppose I figured out the core of what bothers me so much (and is making me have such a rollercoaster of a fan experience) about the show.

(cut for length)

It's not well-written. My opinion is my opinion, so I'm saying this subjectively, take it or leave it, but ... I feel that it's not well-written. The overall story is fine, and the plot is fine, but I don't know if it's because of the limited number of episodes not being enough to house the story, or because of the relative inexperience of the writer/showrunner+director, or both, or something else, but -

In an earlier reaction post to episode 4, I mentioned really wanting to sink my teeth into all of the subtext I picked up on. That was what made me initially enjoy the episode so much - there were a lot of little moments that I initially felt revealed so much about the characters and about Loki, and I wanted to analyze them. But at some point, as I gathered more information, my perspective changed and now I no longer want to analyze the subtext bc ... subtext = good. Subtext w/out payoff = not as good.

I'll go into more detail in a moment, but I think the tl;dr of it is that I feel like the narrative requires the audience to work way too hard to put together all of the moving pieces here and, like, I kinda just don't want to do that work? Not so much of it, and not in vain. A lot of the enjoyment of Loki's characterization is coming from fans who are rationalizing why he's behaving as he is, but the narrative never actually confirms those rationalizations. It's asking us to figure it out and maybe our conclusions will be correct but maybe they won't, though. At some point, subtext isn't enough without explicit follow-through.

I thought my issue was with the lack of character development - that is, not having enough narrative space to really earn the big things that are happening now, like Loki/Sylvie or Mobius turning against the TVA. And that's still true, to an extent; I still feel like the pacing is all very off and it seems like most of these things kinda came out of nowhere (but are not unbelievable - just undeveloped).

But, yknow, it is what it is, it's a limited series, and I can excuse some things. Ultimately, my issue isn't a problem with what the narrative isn't doing, it's a problem with what the narrative already failed to do and probably cannot recover from at this point.

The narrative has left out significant details that should at least help us do some of the work here. If a person turned on Loki and started episode 1 and had no background knowledge of the character besides that he tried to take over New York - how would that person interpret Loki? Would that person say, oh, well, he's been through X, Y, and Z, and plus A happened, not to mention B, C, and D, so really, it makes sense that he seems off-the-rails, or that he'd want to get ridiculously drunk at the worst time ever.

Maybe we'd like to believe they would, but how would they be getting to that conclusion? The narrative hasn't led them in that direction so, no, they would not say well we have to consider this, this, and that. It would be impossible to really understand Loki as a character from just what we've gotten in the series. The general audience would probably interpret Loki as being out of his element and so it becomes, I wonder how this character is going to get the upper hand here. And, while that's not wrong, it's just so limited.

The narrative at face value does not address Loki's identity crisis from Thor 2011. It does not address his hurt and devastation at being lied to, nor does it address how complicated his self-image is (bc it sucked to begin with and that was before he found out he was part of a race of "monsters," as he'd been taught his entire life). It does not reference Loki being so broken at the end of Thor 2011 that he deliberately let himself fall into the void of space (aka tried to kill himself). It does not reference that he was tortured by Thanos or even that he went through a seriously dark time in between Thor and Avengers, and it absolutely does not reference or address any influence or control of the mind stone.

These are all things that we, the fan audience, know because we've already invested our time into this character's story. But tons of people, the general audience, wouldn't know these things. Or if they did, bc they saw Thor and Avengers, they wouldn't be thinking about them as deeply as we would, nor contextualizing them with how Loki is behaving now, or why it would make sense that he needed to get drunk, or why it's understandable that he needs to keep going-going-going in order to not have a spare second to think or feel.

They'd probably look at Loki, again, as a character who was a villain and is now getting his comeuppance in a place where he has no power or control, and no literal powers, and even when he manages to escape and catch up to the variant, he proceeds to fuck up their plan for seemingly no real reason except that he wanted to get drunk bc he's hedonistic. Which Sylvie even berates him for! I mean. This is not exactly a complex character breakdown, nor a very flattering one, but that's what the narrative has given us.

(If the narrative has addressed Loki's mind control, his torture, his mental breakdown, his suicide attempt, and his general shitty self-esteem as a result of his upbringing, please point it out to me. If the narrative has explicitly acknowledged and referenced these things anywhere and I am missing it, please show me where. Please explain to me how the casual viewer would know any of these things that they need to know in order to actually understand what's happening in this story.)

So I mean, okay, we have a narrative that doesn't paint a full, accurate picture of Loki. Fine, sure. But because the general audience starts out on the wrong footing, they're not going to get out of the overall story what the writers probably intended them to. For example, in episode 3, a lot of us theorized that Loki had some kind of plan - that he broke the timepad on purpose, for some reason, bc otherwise it wasn't believable that he'd be such a failure. But episode 4 revealed that no, there was no bigger plan, Loki just plain old messed up. Which is fine if, again, one is only considering the surface-level portrayal here, but it's not true to Loki's actual characterization.

I mean. Loki is not perfect and Loki actually fails a lot, this is true. He fails for a lot of reasons, but incompetence has never been one of them. Usually it's that either things grew beyond his control, or there ended up being too many moving parts, or he had to change his plan at the last minute due to some roadblock or another being thrown his way, or even that he got in his own way - whatever the case may be for his plans' failures, he was always at least shown to know what he was doing.

That wasn't the case here. The "plan" to fix the Timepad failed as a direct result of Loki's actions, which were careless and made him seem incompetent, like he couldn't even handle this mission. "You had one job," etc. And there were pretty big consequences for this; they were not able to get off-world in time and would have been killed had the TVA not shown up at the last second.

And maybe none of these things matter bc the writers never intended any of this to be a reflection on Loki's character, positive or negative. The situation exists solely because the writers needed to put Loki and Sylvie together in some kind of hopeless scenario so that they could get closer, and thus the narrative could set up their romance. I get that - but, there were other ways to do it that didn't require Loki to look foolish.

Furthermore, the whole reason they needed to set up the romance is to show Loki eventually learning to love himself (like, figuratively but also literally). The audience is supposed to gather that Loki and Sylvie fell for one another, possibly due to the high emotional aspect of, yknow, being about to die (in addition to the variant-bond). The intent is clear: Loki and Sylvie almost die but get rescued at the last minute, having now created an emotional bond --> Loki and Sylvie team up and the narrative further establishes that Loki, at least, has caught feelings --> Loki might confess them but is pruned before he gets the chance --> he somehow survives, he and Sylvie are reunited and don't want to lose one another again, and the combined power of their love is enough to break the sacred timeline and spawn the multiverse, and the reason that the power of their love is so, well, powerful is because it's about self-love and self-acceptance as much as it is about having the capacity to love someone else. The end.

I get all that. The writers more or less said all that. And, I mean, it's certainly not the way I would have chosen to go about it, but it's a fair enough arc to explore. I don't really have an issue with the intent - but my question, however, is this: if the narrative has so far not addressed Loki's background issues (as outlined above), and has furthermore kinda gone out of its way to portray Loki as hedonistic and narcissistic, among other things (like kinda incompetent), and the context the audience starts with is that Loki's this villain who deserves what he gets -

- my question is 1, why should the audience care whether or not Loki gets to a point of loving and accepting himself (thus to make the theme of self-love, via the romance, hold weight) if they don't know that he hates himself to begin with and 2, why should the audience root for Loki to reach that point when so far the perception of him is that he's "kind of an asshole"? if he's a hedonistic narcissist, he probably already has a pretty inflated sense of himself, right? A misplaced inflated sense of himself, at that, because, again, the narrative has made him out to be not that capable of much of anything. (And it didn't start out that way! It seemed to start out with Loki being capable and intelligent but it's like episode 3, in trying to set up the romance, just jumbled it all up somewhere. I think this is why I'm harping on the Loki/Sylvie aspect so much - it's frustrating bc it kinda messes up the whole story and can't even accomplish what it's supposed to anyway.)

Anyway, that's beside the point. What I'm ultimately getting at is, at what point is the audience supposed to get invested in Loki's personal growth journey?

They can't, not really. Without understanding and having the context of everything Loki has been through up until now, and why he hates himself, and why it's so important that he learn to love himself, then the "payoff" becomes kinda pointless bc the significance of it is lost in translation. So suddenly we're left with this romance that comes off as either "Loki loves Sylvie bc of Reasons" (best-case scenario) or "Loki loves Sylvie bc he's vain, narcissistic, and kinda twisted" (worst-case scenario). Neither of these conclusions are what the writers intended or were going for, I'm positive, but there we are, regardless.

In order for the writers' intent in these storylines to land, they need to address the context of what makes these particular stakes high for Loki. So far, they haven't done that. They're asking the audience to pick up on all of these things, and they're showing things that subtextually make sense and are relatively in-character - but only if you realize there's subtext in the first place.

But you can't expect the audience to do all of the work for you. If you don't want the audience to think that Loki is a narcissistic asshole and instead you are trying to convey that, worst-case scenario, he thinks he's a narcissist but is an unreliable narrator, then you have to address that. If you need the audience to understand why you're going the selfcest route and why it's important to explore Loki's capacity to love himself and others, you have to address where that exploration is starting from and why it matters. Etc etc etc.

The narrative isn't doing any of that. And it isn't like it'd be that hard to do it. They don't need to reinvent the wheel here; a lot of the pieces are already there. A few lines of dialogue for context, a brief scene here or there addressing the issues, a little more care and consistency in how Loki handles things - these are all little things that could go a long fucking way in making the narrative stronger.

I'm rambling. My basic point is that my rollercoaster of emotions with this show is because

- as a part of the fan audience, not the general one, I can contextualize and analyze the subtext and come to the conclusions the show wants me to, and thus find the story and the characters more or less enjoyable,

- but I am also going to be using the subtext to come to conclusions that aren't there but probably should be (I think it would be a better story, for example, for Loki to confuse platonic love with romantic love bc it would pave the way to explore just how fucked up Loki's understanding of love - whether of other people or of himself, and the different forms it can take - actually is)

- and when they're ultimately not there, then I think, okay why am I bothering doing all this work just to ultimately feel very unfulfilled? They don't even have to write it the way I would, I'm not saying that, but they do have to do something to make the story feel rewarding.

If we don't get some confirmation of what Loki's been through, and where his headspace is, and why it matters for him to love himself, then the story remains pretty shallow and, for me, it's not fulfilling enough. It's not engaging enough. There isn't actually anything to sink my teeth into, so it becomes kind of boring. Maybe it's rewarding to other people, and that's great for them, but like - I need more than whatever this is.

So I'm just like - well, I had a lot of worries about this show, but my being bored wasn't one of them and now there's only two episodes left and am I really not going to get anything out of this, in the long run? No new canons, no new depths or layers, no new information on Loki's experiences? This is it?

I don't dislike it. I didn't start out disliking it, and I probably wont end up disliking it. I mean, there are a lot of good moments, and good things, and fan service-y things that I appreciate. As far as inspiration for fic goes, it's a goldmine, both plot-wise as well as aesthetic-wise. All of that is great. I don't dislike this show.

But I am disappointed in it, and I feel like I'll be watching the next two episodes lacking the sense of anticipation that would make it exciting. I'll still enjoy them, probably, if for nothing else just the sheer Loki content, but whatever it was I felt watching episodes 1 and 2 is gone and I'm sad about that, too. Because I really wanted to feel fulfilled by this series; I wanted it to fill up the void that Loki's death in IW created three years ago. And I just ... don't feel it. Maybe, maybe that'll change over the course of episodes 5 and 6. I don't know.

Everything that I end up enjoying long-term, I think, will come about as a result of my own interpretations and analysis and while theoretically there's nothing wrong with that, if I had known all I'd get out of this series was more headcanons or support for my current headcanons then, well - that's fine, I suppose, but I'll definitely a little bit robbed.

[perlocutionary]

Morning Glory, pt. 16 - The Maze Runner - Thomas au

Description: Based off the original story of The Maze Runner, where Y/N has been around a long time and she and Thomas might be the key out of here. I have my own take on this, I have used particular things from the movie/books but a lot I did change for this story!

Relationship: Thomas x Reader - THE MAZE RUNNER

Title: A Griever’s sting Word count:  1998

Part 1. Part 2. Part 3. Part 4. Part 5. Part 6. Part 7. Part 8. Part 9. Part 10. Part 11. Part 12. Part 13. Part 14. Part 15.

“Can I have your attention please?” I yell over the Gladers, my feet trying to keep myself steady on the log I had stood on just a few weeks prior – speeching. The loud chatter dies down to quiet murmurs and I grin at all my boys, clapping my hands together once. “Thank you. First of all, enjoy your meal! Frypan has outdone himself this time.”

A chorus of cheers erupts around the open field of the Glade, the noise become louder and louder until I try and shut them down again. “Now, some of you know that we may have found something. A way out. I am here to tell you – that that is the case.”

“Please, please, guys, settle down. Otherwise this is going to take a lot longer than necessary.” I laugh, winking at Thomas and Newt who are standing right in front of me, to my right. I cannot help myself as to grin brightly when Thomas stares up at me, his tongue poking past his lips to lick daringly along his bottom lip. I wink again, this time only meant for Thomas’ piercing gaze, as I refocus back on the task at hand.

“From now on, there are no more Grievers!” I screech, throwing my hand holding my mug of moonshine into the air, feeling the liquid slosh and land on my hand before the droplets slowly trail down my arm to my elbow.

“As you all know, some of you found their place within our Glade fairly quickly. Others weren’t as lucky but did find their place nonetheless. Everyone was here with a goal – a goal that WCKD apparently set for us to let our community thrive. “

My voice drops back down to its original octave, glancing over all the eyes glued to me. A hand raises somewhere in the back and I sigh as I finish my introduction, holding my hand up as well. “Please, I want to have a discussion after. Let me get to this before I forget anything crucial.”

My gaze finds Thomas’ again. His happy-go-lucky smile has disappeared, and a frown has taken over his place. I can’t help but let my eyebrows furrow – why wasn’t he as elated as the rest of us had felt? I wish I had had the chance to talk to him before the bonfire started – but it would have to wait until we got to be alone later tonight.

I scrape my throat, putting on my smile again as I address the crowd once more. “I want to give you all the information we inquired – this was an experiment.” Loud murmuring starts but instead of waiting, I just continue my explanation. “All of us are immune to a disease that torments the outside world, The Flare. They wanted us to survive. For mankind to once more thrive again. Without history to guide us, or knowledge, they silently asked us to build a new society – and we succeeded, as you can see.” I motion my hands around the Glade, nodding my head as once again, cheers erupt among us.

“Because, this… This is a safe haven. It’s designed to keep us safe – all of it. The Grievers were meant – ” I can’t finish my sentence as a voice among the crowd interrupts me, causing the whole Glader group to second guess my words. “Y/N! Look at Gally! Do you really think they were here to supposedly protect us?”

My gaze flicks over to a bandaged-up Gally, my lips pursing together into a thin line. Gally looks up, shrugging his shoulders as our eyes meet and I feel mine slump. The only theory I could come up with is that the Grievers were supposed to be there to keep us from finding this out too soon. We couldn’t enter the facility without the flower, which hadn’t sprouted until a few days ago.

Perhaps, the Griever were indeed also for us to remain safe. “I – well – I theorize that – “

This time, I am interrupted, but the words land straight in my heart. I swallow harshly. “Have you forgotten Rebecca and Isabella?” The Glade turns silent, the lone voice dying in the mass of people as I stand frozen. This is what I think a Griever’s sting feels like. Penetrating every fiber of my being, shaking its way to my core – my heart ached at the thought of them, of Alby… Anyone we had lost.

I couldn’t let them see – I couldn’t show them how much it had hurt. If I show them, they might not believe my next words – ones that I desperately believed myself. “It is safe here.”

Silence envelopes us all. MY attention is diverted when Thomas suddenly jumps into motion and stalks off, away from the bonfire and away from me. I feel my throat constrict as I see him disappear into the night. Newt scrapes his throat and my gaze flicks to him. The little nod he gives me tells me he’s onto it, and he trails off after Thomas.

I would’ve never survived if it weren’t for Newt. He had been my rock – during my first days here, the months thereafter, and everything that had haunted my mind at night. Newt was here. And now, even now, he remained here – not only for me, but also Thomas.

Still, nobody speaks.

“There are others out there – places like us. People that are also safe from the outside world. We have a chance to explore the world and try to find this other Maze. We can finally leave this place.” I sigh, defeated perhaps, when it stays eerily quiet.

“I cannot stay here, knowing that there are other out there. Knowing there is an actual world out there, that doesn’t keep us confined. Opportunities, an actual life, I cannot stay here. There is so much more out there. And I know, some of you feel the same way. I invite you to come along with us.” I motion to the only remaining person from my group, Minho, who nods his head, agreeing with my statement. I knew Minho and Newt had my back – always – but I was wondering about Thomas.

“Y/N…” Gally’s voice chimes out above anyone else’s, his features set into understanding – my heart swells when I see the emotions course through his eyes. “If everything turns to shit out there, know that the Glade is your home.”

“Boys, we’re still together, alive, we’re still here, and we’re safe. I propose we celebrate tonight. Everything else can be settled tomorrow.” I raise my jar, bidding everyone a good evening and hop off my log. Gally approaches me, his brow set into a frown.

“I figure you’re not going with us?” I cross my arms over my chest, smiling as a few Gladers pass us and congratulate me on our accomplishments, but remaining close to Gally. He sighs, shaking his head before he speaks – but I knew. I always knew. “No. My place is here, in the Glade.”

I shrug my shoulders, keeping my features stoic. “Then the Glade will have an amazing new leader. If you’ll excuse me.” I nod to Thomas and Newt, meters away from the bonfire, as I smile briefly at Gally. He nods his head, the frown never wavering, as he takes a step back.

I motion Minho with my head to follow me, the tan male falling into step beside me as we trail over to Newt and Thomas. They’re muttering but silence themselves when we approach. “Are you guys alright?”

I take a step closer to Thomas, letting my fingers curl around his wrist as I pry his arms away from his chest. He reluctantly agrees, dropping his arms by his side as I intertwine our fingers. “What’s wrong?” A frown settles over me, my gaze flicking from my best friend to my lover in record speed – but Newt stays silent.

“I can’t help but doubt when I hear the rest of the Glade. Their concerns are valid, Y/N.” Thomas mutters, not meeting my gaze as he stares off into the distance. I thought Thomas and I were on the same page – that we had the same goals. I guess I had been mistaken.

I try to catch his attention, but when he doesn’t budge, I meet gazes with Newt. He smiles apologetically when he witnesses my pained expression, and I drop Thomas’ hand from mine. “Thomas – I – we can’t stay here. That was never an option before.”

Thomas turns as soon as our contact his broken, his hand raising again to grasp our fingers back together, but I retract immediately. The littlest shakes of my head follows as I cross my arms over my chest defensively. He sighs, dropping his hand back to his side. “I know – but they have a good point, you know?”

Immediately, I reciprocate. “Are you not curious as to what’s out there? Am I the only one?” My eyes flick to the other boys in our little circle, but they remain silent, nor do they move. Newt sighs, eventually. “No, Y/N. Definitely not. We have to take our chances. But Thomas is right too.” My eyes widen as I feel Newt shift as well – we can’t stay trapped here forever. Newt, Minho, all of us wanted nothing more than to find a way out of here.

Why would Minho risk his life every day running that Maze if we were going to stay here anyway? Why would Newt help me plan out every single detail of the mapping, why did we even hold Gatherings to keep up-to-date with Minho’s findings?

I swallow harshly as I glare at all three men. “What do you want me to do?” When Thomas tries to grasp my hand again, I let him. He slowly pulls me closer, trying his best to look me in the eye, and I can see his concern course through the honey-speckled orbs.

I also see love, determination and preservation. His tongue darts out to lick his lip, a deep breath leaves his nostrils. “Answer this one question I have…” “And that is, Thom?”

I hold in my breath as I wait for him to speak. He’s fiddling with my fingertips, stalling his question. I knew it was something I didn’t want to hear – or perhaps couldn’t answer. “Why would she call them trials, if it’s a supposed safe haven?”

I want to pull away, but Thomas won’t let me. Instead, he pulls me impeccably closer, pressing his lips against my temple as I slump against his embrace. My defensive stance wouldn’t hold with the people I considered my close family – and there was no point in trying to come up with a lie either. “I – I don’t know. But I trust them. I don’t get why you don’t.”

Minho laughs boisterously, shaking his head as he grins at my against-Thomas-slumped form. It’s Thomas voice that rumbles through the silence though, his chest vibrating against my shoulder as he speaks. “Because locking someone inside a death trap surrounding by a bunch of slimy technology is not something you can justify as protection. Especially not considering the fucking Maze and all.”

For the smallest moment I had considered not telling them what I had found in the control room and keep them to myself, perhaps even burn them when the flames of the bonfire were slowly licking at the wood and every Glader was asleep, but I couldn’t. They should know. “Thomas – you were there too. You made it. “

He’s quick to retaliate. “I made what?”

I pull from his grasp, walking away from the boys and to my back pack that rests against one of the logs. I rumble through it, pulling out the manila folders that I had jammed in there right before leaving the control room, squeezing the paper before turning on my heel and stalking back over. “Here.” I hold out one of the folders, the bold lettering on the front showing THOMAS.

Taglist: @mariariley96 @rebeccaannex3  @blue-berry-barry-allen @honeymoonmuke​  @dashofholland

Forever:@ssweet-empowerment​ @fuckwhateverfuck​ @youshiverwhenyouhearmyname​ @behind-my-hazeleyes27​ @itsbilescallmebiles  @7e6205 @4-a-m

[alistaircousland]

I'm curious? How exactly do you see reylo becoming canon when he tortured her and killed his own father? There isn't even subtext so I'm confused by all the "canon sources" you seem to be reading

(before anything- Reylo is not canon yet. I strongly believe it will be. If you refer to me saying so in my blog title etc. that is mostly to scare off harassing antis so they do not follow me. I’m not talking about normal people who don’t ship reylo following me, here I’m refering to the death threat senders and those who throw all sorts of slurs at reylo shipppers. I do not want them on my blog.)

I’ve thought a lot about how I should answer you on this anon. Short or long? Precise or jokingly? I’ve come to the conclusion that if you really want to know, what you should get back is a (at least almost) definite answer. I will spend a lot of time on Kylo/Ben, since that seems to be the man some people have problems with, not just with the ship Reylo but with his character as a whole.

I’d also like to state right now, before you bring in every piece of logic you’d usually apply to any real-world situation. There are two things we need to be clear about: this is fiction. This is a fictional ship. This whole story is a made up thing, by bringing in every moral and standard you have normally nothing in Star Wars makes no sense. Secondly, no character is perfect. Not a single one. Kylo has his flaws, Rey has her flaws, even our darling Finn does. The original trio has em and there’s so much to pick from in the prequels. I won’t go into that any more, but you need to have this clear. No, Kylo is in no way a perfect prince and no he will not be treated as such. Got it? Ok let’s go!

Let’s start with Kylo Ren, previously known as Ben Solo!

Now, just to give a quick reminder, he is not irredeemable. He feels compassion. He is not okay with the First Order blowing up planets (read the canon novel fam). He most likely grew up on one of those planets destroyed. He is not a psychopath.  

So now let’s get to the Han death scene, shall we? I don’t know how people think he initially wanted to kill Han, or that it was his plan all along to trick him into some false sense of security or something? There are a LOT of ways you can interpret this scene, and to try to not make this too long I won’t go into every detail. If you could not see that he was truly torn apart and did not know what to do I really am confused by how you watched this movie. He is distraught, wanting to go back but knowing he never could. Yes, he believes that he never could go back with Han, because of all the awful things he has done (see “It’s too late”). It doesn’t matter if Han says no (and sometimes I wonder if Han really believed his own words, see this theory on this scene if you’re interested: http://nathantrents.tumblr.com/post/159970936626/ ), he has already made up his mind about that fact. His only choice in this scene as far as we can see according to him is to kill himself or kill Han. He can’t go back to Snoke without killing Han, he can’t go back to Han because of his actions. I’m sure he does not want to die, and makes that terrible decision to kill Han. Hopefully that will help him stay on the dark path, he believes. Listen; he is not okay with what he did. That’s the whole point of the scene and his death. Even though he did the darkest of acts- killing his own father,- he still can’t get rid of the light still inside him. Still, when he was stabbed by his son, Han caresses his face, as to say he still believes in him, or still cares for him. It’s not far fetched to think that Kylo didn’t believe that he cared- he was not there for him during his childhood and sent him away to train with Luke! Still though, he can’t justify it himself which is what makes him redeemable to me. (Another interesting theory regarding his struggle with the light is that Snoke actually encourages him to use BOTH light and dark, but somehow Kylo only wants to be dark? I don’t know what to make of that yet, but it is still interesting to note.)

I hate to say this, because I do truly love Han Solo, but Kylo killing him is not inexcusable. I’ve gone through it before, you know. When Darth Vader killed Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan is one of, if not my number one favorite character in Star Wars. Still, I got through it, and while I was pissed at Vader I still accepted his redemption. He killed Palpatine, the worst of the worst. I don’t know how y’all can’t see that this is setting itself up to be done again, with Kylo killing Snoke in most likely episode IX. Snoke is no better than Palpatine, they both are despicable beings (who has shown no indication of remorse/compassion whatsoever) and they’re both going to be slain by our legendary Skywalker line, whom they thought they had seduced well enough to have on their side just to have them both eventually turn on them. Kylo is already showing a lack of faith in Snoke. Honestly, he might’ve even killed his father to finally have access to his physical form, as we still don’t know if he actually has even met him face to face! Imagine that! Besides, Kylo hates the weapon. He does not want to use it. He never wanted to kill his father. This is going into too much theorizing but what did Vader want to do? He keeps saying “I’ll finish what you started”. I can only think of Vader destroying the Jedi (which must be why he wants to locate Luke- so he can end the Jedi). HMMMMM I wonder who else says they want the Jedi to end??????????? *cough*it’s Luke*cough* What if it was Luke who first betrayed Ben back in the day? Anyway that’s enough for now.

A quick stop with some Rey too!

I’d like to talk about the interrogation scene with Rey here. No, this is not a “classic”torture scene. Really, it is not. Please compare this scene with what the First Order did to Poe earlier in the film. That is torture. Kylo has stated in the novel that he does not want to hurt her. Yes, he does say that! Guess what he says! ”Despite what you may believe, it gives men no pleasure. I will go as easily as possible- but I will take what I need.” Guess what! This is exactly what he does! He tries to use the mind probe force ability to get his crucial piece of information painlessly out of her. Unfortunately, he fails to do so. Rey instead uses this same dark side ability to do the same to him, revealing his darkest fears to him. There are multiple times Rey struggled with the dark side in this film alone, this scene and during the fight in the forest. In the end of the fight she even considers killing him, a dark side of the force thing to do (remember “it’s not the jedi way!!!11!!1” – Anakin). 

Aaaanyway- her “hurting from the probe” is also very much up to interpretation too. In the novel there is no mention of her feeling pain from it(probably because Kylo says he will do this as painlessly as he can), but she’s stressing because she’s trying to stop it and that’s why she is so distressed. Listen it is not okay that he kidnapped her and caused her this stress, but you do realize that she is is enemy? And still- even though he could treat her the worst possible way he did not. Of COURSE Rey is in distress being captured by him, and that is not okay but what did you expect? What I’m saying is that technically he should treat her worse, but my point here is that he still didn’t. He is supposed to be the big baddie! Which is why it makes it so special that he does not harm her. 

Another highly important fact to consider; she always shoots first. When they meet in the forest for the first time, she fires at him, unbeknownst to who he his. He comments on this (novel), saying “You would kill me. Knowing nothing about me.” She says he is of the First Order so why wouldn’t she, and he replies with that she doesn’t and that she is ignorant. He continues with “So afraid. Yet I should be the one who should be scared. You shot first. You speak of the First Order as if it were barbaric, And yet, it is I who was forced to defend myself against you.” This of course happens once again in the forest with her firing her blaster at him first. He is forced to knock her out so she wouldn’t try to harm him further, because yes, she would. This we see when she gets the lightsaber, and she charges at him. He is defending himself, still stunned about how good she is at literally everything. She is the one who slices him up, cutting his face, are two seconds away from killing him. She didn’t have a scratch from what we saw. 

So to the good stuff- reylo. Why? How?

Listen- we don’t want a toxic-capture-prisoner-slave-rape thing that somehow people seem to believe. The most of us want them to be together on the same side, be that the dark side, light side or the most popular and mostly loved outcome- in the middle, together. Since I believe the route they’re going is the middle ground, I’m going to focus on this one ok? Save dark Reylo for the fanfiction. 

OKAY SO if you ship Reylo then you most likely believe that they formed a force bond when they entered each others minds(or when he first entered hers in the forest, but that is up to interpretation), which honestly seems like the only logical way for her to be that knowledgeable of the force after their encounter. She succeeds in doing the mind-probe back at him, in addition to using a Jedi mind trick on the (James Bond) stormtrooper aaand getting that lightsaber in the forest without ANY training. If they formed a force bond, this would actually make sense as the core of a force bond is borrowing each other’s strength. She could have picked up how to do all these things through him.

Before this bond was made Kylo mentions this “something” at least three times in the novel talking about her. Rey also thinks that she finds herself drawn to Kylo when they meet again in the forest, which all would make sense if they formed a force bond. Kylo’s pre-force bond “somethings” could be him sensing there is a possibility of that bond, which would make sense with him saying “something there. Something unexpected.”

For Star Wars this is an unexplored story- a light side-dark side romance. This has been explored in the now expanded universe, but not in what we consider canon. Imagine all the possibilities! The novel Lost Stars (yup a canon novel) they have explored the Empire-Rebel romance thing, and that is such an amazing story you definitely should read. For the movies this is a new thing that is just screaming to happen. Even marketing is pushing these two as the main characters of this saga- further establishing how their relationship is at the core of this trilogy. Rey said she feels like their destinies are intertwined, and guess what TLJ will definitely further develop that.

While I would adore it if they went romantic with it, they don’t have to.  This story can work with them just relying on their force bond connection to so become friendly towards each other. However, adding a romantic factor would really spice it up and make it a lot more interesting.

(If you are a fan of the “cutesy” way of shipping them then you must’ve seen the way he looked at her when she catched the lightsaber. Literal heart eyes. He is so attracted to her, be that romantic of because of the force bond- so much so that he wants to teach her and never harm her.)

Anyway- I have no idea how or how much you know about Reylo, but you should know we predicted balance being the main plot for this saga back in 2015/16 right after release. All that by reading the subtext of the film, novel and script notes. We picked up this ship also, as being the main indicator of this balance. We knew that their bond would be the center piece, which is why it does make sense to ship them. They’re yin and yang- different, and yet the same. Lonely, isolated in their own way. We want them to find happiness in each other.  

The reason I’m not saying anything about the Finn and Rey ship here is because I have nothing against it. I love them, they’re adorable. Personally though I want and strongly believe Reylo will be the way this is going, and then I can only hope they’re brave enough to go with Finn and Poe. If not, there were rumors about a “Finn-love-interest” being cast for ep VIII far back and now we have Rose- so tbh I would not be surprised if they put them together either.

SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS-

I am not forcing you to ship this. You are allowed to like and not like whatever you want to. What I am tired of is having to justify my ship because others don’t bother to read subtext, because the film, the promotional material for TLJ and everything Rian says about it all but confirms it for me. What I am asking of you is to ship and let ship. Stop hating on such a small, insignificant thing because yes it is insignificant for you if you don’t care about it, but stop harassing shippers for what they enjoy. I have no idea if you’ve participated in any of this, I hope you have decency enough to not have done it anyway, but that needed to be said. 

As a last note to this, it needs to be said that Star Wars has never been a fluffy, cutesy non-problematic series. There are sooo many morally wrong decisions being made by all characters, so cherry picking which are good “cinnamon rolls” and who is not is not the way to go when you discuss this saga seriously (note: when discussing seriously. by all means make whatever memes suits you for the fun of it fun). This saga is so much deeper than that. The conflict between light and dark has always been at its core, and as we know nothing is ever black and white about this. I am so glad they’re finally solidifying the balance between the to to be focal point.

Thanks for not sending hate and actually asking for a serious opinion, I hope this answered your question in some way. If not, well, go back on anon and specify whatever you feel wasn’t properly said I guess. So yeah, thanks for not going all about this in a hateful way.