#his pov ends there but we as the audience see that dean isn't going out for a drink. he's working the case.

[angelsdean]

DEAN grabs his jacket and keys and starts for the door. SAM Dean, where're you going? DEAN I'm going to go get a drink. Alone.

*in sam's mind* oh no, there he goes again, using alcohol to #cope with his feelings instead of tALkINg to mE

reality: dean just says that to get sam off his back and then....continues working the case

[stanfordsweater]

i think it's interesting to say that we don't see dean vulnerable often because, especially in the early seasons but continuing to the end of the show, i feel like we see him vulnerable all the time-- we're granted the gift of being the camera all those times he's close to tears, a stand-out example being in what is and what should never be when we see him on his knees crying over fake!john's grave, but there are many many other examples of him being very vulnerable/cracked-open to the audience that i feel people do a real disservice to by forgetting.

right off the bat we see him vulnerable in the pilot when he talks about pursuing john and sam reminds him he's going back to school:

where he has to take a second and remind himself that he doesn't get sam back, because sam has a life, and dean collects himself but won't even look at sam beyond a derisive glance when he says "i'll take you home."

what is this moment if not planting the seeds for when dean later says, in shadow, that what he really wants is sam with him and his family back together?

SAM: I mean, what are you gonna do when it’s all over? DEAN: It’s never gonna be over. There’s gonna be others. There’s always gonna be somethin’ to hunt. SAM: But there’s got to be somethin’ that you want for yourself— DEAN: Yeah, I don’t want you to leave the second this thing’s over, Sam. SAM: Dude, what’s your problem? DEAN: Why do you think I drag you everywhere? Huh? I mean, why do you think I came and got you at Stanford in the first place? SAM: ‘Cause Dad was in trouble. ‘Cause you wanted to find the thing that killed Mom. DEAN: Yes, that, but it’s more than that, man. You and me and Dad—I mean, I want us… I want us to be together again. I want us to be a family again. SAM: Dean, we are a family. I’d do anything for you. But things will never be the way they were before. DEAN: (sadly) Could be. SAM: I don’t want them to be. I'm not gonna live this life forever. Dean, when this is all over, you’re gonna have to let me go my own way.

and what is THIS moment if not dean being vulnerable? when he's reminded that the "something he wants for himself" is completely impossible because sam doesn't want it and dad left without a word by choice?

my best guess is that people don't read these moments as dean being vulnerable because he's turned away from sam-- in the pilot, he looks out the window and purses his lips and takes sam back to school. in shadow, he physically turns away from sam and grabs at the dresser and his expression shuts down when sam says no.

that doesn't mean that dean is necessarily angry or feeling possessive over sam, it's because dean can't show his vulnerability to sam (at this point in the show), because he has to be strong and he has to keep a lid on his problems or people die. deep down dean feels like wanting anything for himself is selfish and impossible. going back to what is and what should never be, that is the thesis of the entire episode: dean gets his deepest wish, and hundreds of people die. and he is broken over it.

DEAN All of them. Everyone that you saved, everyone Sammy and I saved. They're all dead. (...) It's like my old life is, is coming after me or something. Like it doesn't want me to be happy. Course I know what you'd say. Well, not the you that played softball but… "So go hunt the Djinn. He put you here, it can put you back. Your happiness for all those people's lives, no contest." Right? But why? Why is it my job to save these people? Why do I have to be some kind of hero? (begins to cry while talking) What about us, huh? What, Mom's not supposed to live her life, Sammy's not supposed to get married? Why do we have to sacrifice everything, Dad? (pause) It's… (Dean's lips tremble. Silence. We hear the sky rumbling. Tears begin to falls on DEAN's cheek.) Yeah…

but where my sam-as-POV theory about why people keep saying dean isn't vulnerable dies is that we see these moments, so how do other people interpret them? is it just a case of not remembering? do some people think i'm totally off-base with this?

[doctorprofessorsong]

Hi. Umm this must be a stupid and unsettling question but I'm just gonna put it out there.

So Im a destiel shipper and I love reading fics. ok so, all this while TFW had been fighting for freedom and wanted to write their own stories and defeated god n everything. and in mid way of reading in dean's POV it struck me all of a sudden that dean wouldn't want me to know these things going on his mind. ok if you say dean and cas are fictional characters technically speaking and they can't possibly give consent, thats fine ig. but obviously I'm so attached to these characters and maybe I want to believe they're real. especially given how spn is a huge example of how a character can take control of the story being told. and ok yes, I know we as a fandom want to see our beloved characters happy. but what gives me the right to get into dean's mind? I'm dean coded so I always choose fics with his POV but I all of a sudden felt like a perv. Isn't freedom and privacy (from chuck/audience) what dean and the rest of the team fought for?? and we just continue toying with them just cause we recover slightly from cw's bullshit? Idk how this thought came to me after all this time but I do feel guilty to have been reading fics. anyway, is it just me or is this kind of feeling common? I enjoy fics too much I don't want to feel like this

Nonny, you are going through it, huh? I don't know how common/uncommon it is but certainly, many people in this fandom find a lot of self-recognition in these characters and that can be uncomfortable. Sometimes in great ways (the amount of times I have realized something I needed to work through in therapy because of a fic is slightly embarrassing) and sometimes in bad ways.

They are absolutely fictional characters and you shouldn't feel guilty. We tell stories for so many reasons. To understand. To find hope. To believe we can change things. To imagine a different world. There is nothing bad about getting insight into how people think Dean would feel or think. And if it helps, I think frequently what you are actually getting in a fic is a part of the author that they are sharing voluntarily. Certainly, my most beloved writing is often based on my experiences. On telling a story that I think matters.

As a concrete example, I wanted to tell a story in The Birds and the Ts about rebuilding after trauma. A recognition that the trauma isn't what makes you and love isn't what heals you. You rebuild with the help of those that love you. You get to decide how to remake yourself. So a lot of those thoughts the characters have and the choices they make? They are me telling myself and the reader it's okay to feel that way. You aren't alone and there is hope.

They are fictional, but I get the existential crisis. I do. In second grade I lived in fear that I was a character in a book or a dream. And I was terrified I would simply disappear when it ended. That feeling? I can say that feeling is common enough that more than one person has told me they also went through it.

But if it helps, even if they were real in a pocket universe living out these stories, you wouldn't be Chuck by reading about them. Maybe we are all Becky? Or Marie? Certainly, reading a fic is not manipulating time and space. And EVEN if they were real, Dean doesn’t seem to think about the readers of the series in the show. He doesn't seem uncomfortable around Marie, for instance. So even if you can't shake the existential fear that they are somehow real, I don't think you have to worry that the hypothetical Dean made reality would even think about or care about fic.

I would also consider whether you might be feeling exposed, and whether that is contributing to this feeling. Like some things are hitting close to home. That is an uncomfortable feeling. If that is part of it, consider what I said above. If it makes you feel vulnerable because you identify strongly with it, there's a better than 0 chance that it's because the author either speaks from experience or has looked at this character, seen this thing that makes you feel vulnerable, and loved him for it. So try to take heart in that.

[missjackil]

Hello again! Yes I see what you are saying. You said about necessity right. Why were we made to think killing Lilith isn't necessary? Because Dean didn't think it's necessary so? Sam did save Dean and Castiel from Alistair in S4 like he did from Famine in S5. It's not like he only did good in S5 with his demon blood powers. He saved a lot of people teaming up with Ruby but the question here is why were his actions painted badly even before we ( and Dean) knew he was on demon blood? Is it because Dean said " if I didn't know you I would wanna hunt you and so would other hunters"? Would we feel the same about Sam if Dean hadn't said those words? Again question whose POV?

Going back a season to S3 we are constantly reminded by Dean if Sam is going darkside and not by Sam himself because when we see Sam's actions all we see is a little brother trying all he can to save his brother from going to hell. It's not until Dean starts asking Sam if he is okay and even talks to Bobby about it we start wondering if something's wrong with Sam ( see what I mean ? Audience are made to see through Dean's POV)

And I don't even want to talk s9 happenings because Oh God it's a touchy subject. Sam was slaughtered like a pig in the fandom for saying "same circumstances I wouldn't..." (Side note: Do I think Dean made the right decision? I m MUTE . Do I want Sam to die? NO! Do I think Sam was right when he said those words even though I was devastated? YES!) Which makes me wonder why is that we were made to only sympathize with Dean in that scene and not Sam because clearly Sam was hurt? Is it because we were watching Sam through Dean?

In s10 we all saw audience response to Charlie getting killed.We were all here Weren't we? We didn't sympathize with Sam like we did with Dean when Kevin got killed. Again the question arises is it because of the Dean's POV?

Sorry this went a little long. Thanks for your previous responses by the way.

Ok, I think you may have run into a problem that many in the fandom has, this one in particular with Samgirls, that the audience is influenced by Dean’s POV. Sometimes some are, but some are influenced by Sam’s POV. Remember I said that 2 stories were running at the same time, and each supported the other? (By supported, I mean that each story was a part of the other) This is an example of that. Some of the audience sure, was thinking “Oh Sam is doing bad things and going dark!” but some, like you said, saw Sam as a little brother who was just trying to save Dean and do a good thing with something presumed to be bad. And some of the audience,, like myself, saw 2 brothers who desperately wanted to save the other even if that meant hurting themselves in the process.

SPN is a wonderful story and there’s no single POV that It needs to viewed by. Im a Sam girl, but I also love Dean. In both cases I realize that they've made mistakes, bad choices, and sometimes were downright crappy to each other, I don’t condone all the actions of Sam, nor Dean, but because I love them both, I do my best to understand their actions and not just blame one over the other.

 Do you remember near the end of S15,   when Sam was upset that Jack had agreed to kill himself in order to kill Chuck and Amara? I feel like Sam in this case when dealing with either Sam or Dean's questionable actions. When Sam confronted Jack about his situation, he didn't side with Jack out of love and loyalty, yet he understood why he was doing it. He said “I wish you were upfront with us Jack, but I understand that dying for a cause takes a lot of courage... I think its wrong though” This is literally me every time a Winchester does something I don’t agree with. 

To the point, the audience is influenced by both POVs, not just one, unless they only like one brother, then they're not going to care at all about the other. 

Hey, if you wanna talk s9, it’s one of my fav topics. I don’t have a common take on it, you may or may not find that interesting. If you want to talk privately about it, that's fine, or ask on anon if you want. Im game :)

Thank you Nonnie!

[idontneedasymbol]

So in the continuing saga of is Jack an adolescent boy/a dangerous monster/both/neither/something else, it looks like Jack isn't going to be in 13x05 *at all*. If true, they're going to need an in-universe explanation as to where he went. He doesnt seem inclined based on 13x04 to have run away prior to episode start, so I'm thinking... they leave him alone in the bunker? Send him to Jody? I got nothin else, and those both seem remarkably blase, considering the situation. *sigh*

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. I’m guessing they’re going to say something like Jack’s busy watching whatever show and they can leave him in the bunker. Which seems to fit with where they were at last episode, where they were allowing him a fair degree of autonomy (he seems to have the run of the bunker, judging by him just hanging out in the kitchen in the end without comment from Dean?) and Dean is coming around to him.

I admit, while I’m thus far enjoying this season more than 12, especially when it comes to the brothers, I am deeply weirded out by Jack. I mean, the character is sweet, and the actor plays him very charmingly. But the degree to which the show is expecting/requiring us to take Jack on a ‘what you see is what you get’ basis, without question, is creepy to me.

E.g. in “The Big Empty,” Mia points out that Jack is frightened of Dean, and it seems like the show means us to see this as an obviously and indisputably bad thing, that such fear is bordering on if not an outright abusive dynamic. From Mia’s POV it makes sense; at that point she still believes they are family. But in the context of Dean’s softening and apology at the end of the ep, it’s clear that the audience is meant to take this as a fair criticism of Dean, a sign that he is taking his anger and pain inappropriately out on others, including an innocent kid/young man under his care.

There isn’t any sense that the dynamic here is way more complicated than the face value – that Jack is an entity with cosmic, potentially apocalyptic power, and that the fact that Dean, an ordinary human, is able to intimidate him to that extent is honestly impressive. Dean actually doesn’t present any real threat to Jack, as far as we know and Jack knows; from what we’ve seen, Jack could snap his neck with a thought, while Dean doesn’t even know how to kill Jack. If anyone has reason to be terrified here, it’s Dean. Yet he’s facing down Jack with sheer will and it’s working. Except the show has gone out of its way to present Jack as so harmless and tractable that this just comes across as undeserved bullying on Dean’s part.

(And given the mind manipulation powers Jack exhibited while still in the womb, this could all be Jack, that he has gotten more subtle with his brainwashing…but I really don’t think that’s where this storyline is heading? However bizarre it is that Dean mentioned said manipulation without apparently fearing either Sam or himself could fall under its influence…)

[awed-frog]

The frustrating thing for me, when people use Dean's issues to point out WHY he handles emotional situations badly is that the sympathy isn't with the people that suffers because of it (like Cas). It's with Dean. An explanation for Dean's behaviour shouldn't become a justification. If Dean loves Cas but treats Cas badly, why should we root for this relationship? Him almost killing Cas is about CAS' suffering, not his. But his reaction is not about what Cas deserves, but about his wants. IMO etc.

I’ve been trying to come up with something clever about this ask for a few days, but I got nothing, so I’m just going to tell you what’s going through my mind in the clearest possible way.

1) The viewers will often have a favourite and defend them to the death, and if you find it frustrating, there’s not much you can do other than unfollow people or blacklist some tags. I understand where you come from - I also get annoyed when people justify everything’s a character’s ever done, even the most twisted and problematic things, just because they like him or her. To be honest, I think I stopped caring when I saw a discussion about how Tate Langdon was the perfect boyfriend - some part of my soul just shrivelled and died and I decided that yep, some people are batshit insane and most people get unreasonable around stuff they love, and what can you do about it? 

2) If you’re talking about the writers/creators of a show, on the other hand, I think it’s important to remember where is our POV and what kind of story those people are telling. Like, Supernatural is not House of Cards: whatever he does, Dean will be written as sympathetic, and since we see this world (mostly) from his POV, everything is reflected back on him. I know some people get angry about this - characters getting killed to make the Winchesters feel bad, or simply to advance the plot - but that’s how you tell a story (everybody does the same thing, and if you don’t see it, it means they’re doing their job right). Your main characters are the ones who matter, and the ones whose emotions we care about. So, even when it comes to someone as important to the story as Cas is, Dean will get most of the plot, and this is just how things work.

The next point might upset some people, so I’ll place it under a cut. Stay safe.

3) On placing sympathy on the abuser, rather than the victim - I think there are several reasons for this. One is that, traditionally, our stories in the West are about the conquerors and the victors, not those who have been defeated (when Euripides wrote a tragedy about the Trojan noblewomen being sold off as slaves after the war, people were not happy, and that play is still controversial today). At the same time, we all realize, because we’re not psychopaths, that violence is not nice, and that’s how you end up with this compromise narrative best summarized by Frankie Boyle.

Another aspect of this is that many victims are women (or people ‘outside’ a community, such as queer people or POC), and many abusers are men, and, again, traditionally we give less weight and importance to the feelings and wellbeing of women than we do to those of men. Combine that with the fact many storytellers (I use the term loosely) are men, and you get where we are today: a story about a woman being beaten by her husband is ‘boring’ and not something the audience will want to watch, but the story of a tortured man who can’t help but beat his wife because demons is ‘interesting’ and worth everyone’s attention.

Finally, I think there’s a combination of these two factors in play as well - we mostly want to see stories about people acting, not reacting; about people being brave and fighting and winning, because we generally identify with the main character and we want some sort of happy ending for them. And the problem is - a victim of violence who overcomes this violence - that can still be perceived as a bleak story, right, because abusers are often a solid part of the community (husbands and fathers in family dramas, soldiers and commanders in war movies), which means that this kind of stories are, in their very nature, unsettling and revolutionary, because what they’re telling you is that the community was wrong in trusting those people. It’s no wonder, really, that Francesco Rosi’s Uomini contro was threatened, sued, and had great trouble to find distribution in Italian cinemas: despite being a movie about a century old war, it sided - very clearly - with the soldiers who’d been brutalized by their own commanders, and while the situation was well-known and mostly accurate from a historical point of view, the backlash was still enormous. And this is the same reaction you get, not only towards fictional stories, but about real ones too. All those murder-suicides - ‘normal’ men killing their wives and children before shooting themselves - both the media and the public’s reaction is inevitably incredulity and a refusal to dig deeper. We want to believe our societies are healthy and we want to believe that men (unlike women, those fickle and untrustworthy creatures) are mostly right about everything, and this is what we get as a result. We’re so good at ignoring violence it sometimes comes back to haunt us (is it just me or all the latest US shooters had priors of domestic violence?). So, you see - a man coming to terms with his own anger and becoming a better person, that’s an inspiring story we’re all okay with; but a woman standing up to her husband, that’s a bit different. There’s a seed of revolt there, a sort of If she did it, why can’t I? that we really don’t want people to see.

(In case it’s not clear, I’m violently against all of this. I’m sick of this kind of stories, and I do think that we need some waking up and some revolution in our communities.)

4) You say an explanation shouldn’t mean a justification, and I totally agree, but I also think it’s hard to do this right, both IRL and in fiction, because the more you know about someone, the more you empathize with them, which means any villain can become redeemable with the right background story - just ask Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. As for Dean and Cas, I don’t think Dean ever justified his own behaviour; in fact, he even atoned for it, in his own Dean way, when he allowed a crazed Cas to beat him up and insisted in keeping the bruises. It wasn’t perfect, but, then again, neither is Dean.

5) Why should we root for this relationship if Dean treats Cas badly - does Dean really treat Cas badly? I don’t think so. Dean is a MESS, all capitals. He tries his best, and I really feel for him, but the truth is, he doesn’t know how to do this. As far as we know, he didn’t have any friends or significant relationships growing up, and by the beginning of the series, the only person he seems to connect to in any healthy way is Bobby. Honestly - it takes years for Dean, who grew up as a soldier and a conman and a loner and never had a right to his own childhood and a life that wasn’t taking care of his brother and helping out his father, to get better at this. And, sure, the relationship with Cas is no different - at the beginning, Dean is confrontational, a sarcastic little shit, occasionally cons Cas into having his way - but the magic of what happens between them is that pretty soon, all of Dean’s traditional walls and posturing take a step back. What’s really special here is that Dean is honest with Cas in a way he isn’t with anyone else, and despite the fact he loves Cas so fiercely, he mostly tries to respect his decisions, and is never harsh with him if not in very extreme circumstances. Personally, the one moment between them I truly hated was Dean’s Nobody cares that you’re broken, because, OUCH - looking back, I can see that this was Dean channelling John, but still - it was an incredibly dickish thing to say (and it must have haunted Dean in Purgatory, especially since, as far as he knew, Cas had died - because of him). As for the rest of it - I doubt we’ll ever have fluffy lines between them, but that doesn’t mean they’re not incredibly soft with each other. I don’t know if you were referring specifically to S12E19, but Dean pushing Cas against a wall in anger - that’s not abuse. He knows he can’t hurt Cas (physically) unless he really tries, so that scene was about Dean needing to put his hands on Cas, to feel him, to make sure he was there and he was okay; and also a harmless way to let his frustration out, to say what he doesn’t know how to put into words (that he cares, that is, and that he doesn’t need Cas to bring him back any win, the dumbass, because that’s not what actually matters). And maybe that reaction doesn’t seem soft to you, but this is Dean Winchester, right, the killer even demons are afraid of and the guy who basically doesn’t trust anyone - Cas just spent weeks MIA, never bothered to call, didn’t tell them he had a line on Kelly, stole the Colt form Dean knowing full well how much that weapon meant to him, collaborated with Heaven without telling him one word about it - and, on the whole, Dean’s not even angry. He’s worried, and he’s frustrated (with Cas; with himself), but he understands why Cas did what he did, and that makes all the difference. 

“Dude, if anybody else - I mean anybody - pulled that kind of crap, I would stab them in their neck on principle. Why should I give him a free pass?”

“Because it’s Cas.”

You know - I always felt that for Dean, who’s always been coded as the ‘female’ character both with Sam and with Cas, the Mark of Cain was the ultimate undoing precisely because it took from him all those ‘feminine’ traits which are such a profound part of who he is. The fact that it all culminated in him beating the hell out of Cas, in a reversal of their traditional ‘fights’ (I’m inverted commaing this because most of those happened under some sort of mind control, so they weren’t really fights), was, in a way, a complete assertion of his new role of Alpha Male - while Cas had stepped back into a more traditional ‘feminine’ role the whole season. In this sense, I understand that the narrative focused way more heavily on Dean, because he was the one acting out of character and doing ‘weird’ things - but ideally, yes, I would have wanted to know what that beating meant for Cas, what he was thinking as he healed himself, and everything else. So, yeah - it’s a mess, and it’s not a traditional love story, perhaps, but I still think they’re right for each other and they do make each other happy, so personally, I’m rooting for them. There are tons of abusive relationships on TV that are passed off as normal, even romantic, but this isn’t one of them.

[elizabethrobertajones]

I've got this feeling that if Sam is serious about working with the bmol and this isn't just some kind of scheme... Sam told Mick to give him time to convince Dean... That just awfully reminds me of s4. Sam making a decision behind deans back and we as an audience know that in this instance Dean is the one who is right. Well at ledast this time he isn't alone he has cas and Crowley and Rowena probably too.

Anonymous said: So I really hope that Sam knows what he is doing and kind of wants to infiltrate the bmol because otherwise I’m getting some s4 vibes over here. Dean against tje rest of the world actually doing the right thing but no one listens to him. At least this time around he has cas and Crowley right?

^ I am so amused. You two should be friends.

Are we just getting season 4 vibes because that’s the biggest example of Sam working behind Dean’s back? In that case it was so absolutely wrong of Sam and he couldn’t SEE it because he was in a horrible descent arc where Ruby was corrupting him, mind and body, and feeding his powers. Season 4 was so awful for Sam as Sam I don’t really ever want to be light comparing Sam to it, because he REALLY learned.

I was thinking it’s more like season 10, where Sam goes behind Dean’s back to save him, but mostly because Dean’s given up as he thinks. He knows Dean could be argued around to it if he was just regular old Dean and thinking clearly about wanting to live, and makes the choice he thinks is best for his brother even if it means going behind his back. If he IS serious about this and has bought the sales pitch rather than doing it for infiltration/Mary protecting reasons as people are speculating, then he thinks the pitch about saving them from their own awful lives is a good one and Dean would like it too, while he ALWAYS knew it was wrong working with Ruby and from 4x01 he’s worried about telling Dean, lies about it, and withholds stuff for most of the season. 

With the BMoL if he’s serious, he said already that he thinks Dean can be persuaded to go along with it and that he’d want it - his sense of right and wrong told him the demon blood thing was too awful to share, but in this case Dean’s already seemingly grudgingly accepted MARY’S choice to work with them and it’s just whether Sam can convince him to JOIN the BMoL rather than go through another round of having accept his family is working for them but not join himself. Like, there’s already a line here that Mary crossed, and seems to have been forgiven. (Although it’s more that she lied to them, and Dean doesn’t know half the stuff Sam does after that episode and we don’t know if Dean would be told about the Colt between episodes or if that’s a reveal for him too - considering Sam cried over seeing the Colt again, you’d think we’d need at least half a weighty scene for Dean finding out…) 

It’s the smart choice instead of the heart choice thing, but applied in a way which is too removed from the emotional situation. Everyone’s pointed out for weeks how Sam should be most hurt by Mary’s choice because the BMoL tortured him, and so he’s far more the one who stood to be personally injured than Dean. Of course Sam compartmentalised all that in the fight and was the one to give Mary a chance first. And I think he may be misinterpreting Dean saying he doesn’t like Mary’s choice to thinking Dean’s made a choice with his head not his heart here and is going to be more reasonable. Dean always acts emotionally but he doesn’t want to fight with his family and he still thinks this is wrong and the season can’t really have Dean give in now Mary AND Sam are working with the bad guys because we need balance and a POV character NOT doing it so I suspect Dean will stick his ground and not join them or Cas is going to come back like

So yeah, Dean and Cas and probably Rowena and maybe Crowley if the whole Lucifer thing doesn’t get in the way, are gonna be the obvious resistance to the BMoL while Sam and Mary are going to be on the inside… 

But I don’t think Sam not being able to convince Dean will be like, the sort of split that season 4 caused, even if they’re now misunderstanding each other’s motives if Sam is genuinely set on joining the BMoL. Dean’s forgiven on a family level, the personal stuff, wit Mary, but it’s not like he’s warmed up to the idea of working with the BMoL, he’s just not actively disowning Mary for doing it. Sam tends to think things through from so far outside the box (where the box is his own feelings) he can logic his way through like, an entire obstacle course without thinking he’s taking any emotional damage, although I really don’t think this can be healthy for him :P His repression is very different from how Dean bottles up emotions because Dean still feels them, just tries not to express them. Sam tries not to feel them at all. I think this is what Dean was telling him about picking a side - he wants Sam to get angry and feel something about it. Sam goes to feel out Mary’s side of it, and then literally picks a side, which even seems to go against his own stated feelings on the matter (he says hunting is his life to Mary at the start, and while it was magnificent bullshit on one level either way you look at it, I think he did also agree with what he was saying in the cops and robbers speech to the Alpha because holy crap that was good). So again he hasn’t picked a side INTERNALLY he’s picked one EXTERNALLY by thinking it might be the smartest choice after all even if it didn’t feel good in many ways to him and the BMoL have represented themselves as an enemy in his head all season.

(This all seems to be addressing Sam’s way of doing this head on so maybe we are getting a storyline to belatedly make up for Sam working with Lucifer without more than a few worried side-glances at the end of last season)

Anyway I love Sam and this episode made me love Sam more than I ever had before, so I absolutely can’t see how this is as bad as him working with Ruby because we’re with him here. I mean we’re not WITH him with him, but the story is showing us Sam’s internal processes in its own way where Sam doesn’t really reveal those to us ever, and I have honestly never found him more fascinating or compelling, because these decisions are BAD but they’re not BAD DECISIONS if you know what I mean? I mean, not in the scale of a guy who drank demon blood for a year and started the apocalypse :P

[angelsdean]

Also, since I'm divorce arc posting today, what if i said Dean wasn't wrong to say this:

CASTIEL The plan changed, Dean. Something went wrong. You know this. Something always goes wrong. DEAN Yeah, why does that something always seem to be you?

LIKE !!!!! Sure it was harsh and if emotions weren't heightened already and Dean wasn't still dealing with the very recent death of his mother and that grief (anger being a stage of grief!) and ALL the Chuck shit on top of that AND his own complicated feelings re: Jack's death (bc Dean was Not going to kill him, despite Chuck trying to manipulate him into doing that) he probably wouldn't have said that to Cas but like?? he's not really wrong.

You can easily trace a lot of the major season conflicts as a long line of dominoes starting with Cas's s6 betrayal. Leviathans. Purgatory. The tablets. Angels falling. Lucifer getting out of the cage via Cas possession. Etc etc. And most of the time Cas was doing things from a place of good intentions in his POV. Trying to fix things or spare others the burden of doing the hard thing. But still, these plans often backfire for Cas. Going it alone, not letting Dean (+ Sam) in on his plans, it usually does not end well !!!! They are TEAM Free Will for a reason. The show (and Dean) continuously emphasizes the importance of team and family and not going it alone. So, while what Dean says to Cas in this scene is definitely a harsh pill to swallow and not something I think Dean would say to Cas in normal circumstances, he technically isn't wrong. And that's what makes it such a heart-breaking scene.

And even more-so, he's saying this but he still, at his core doesn't want Cas to leave. ("Of course I wanted you to stay.") At the moment he needs space and time to process his grief re: Mary, and all the other stuff going on, but he still wants Cas there and ultimately wants to fix things. ("I'd rather have you." "We can fix this." "I was there where were you." etc etc)

But to fix things they need to address his huge persistent, recurring issue between them: not communicating effectively and Cas continuously leaving, going rogue, and/or deciding for them when to involve Dean.

Dean wants to work together, as a team. Dean wants to be involved. Dean wants Cas to not just up and disappear and "deal with things" on his own like he always does. Cas, in his own POV, sees his actions as perhaps a form of care. He's protecting! He's taking on the hardships! Also, his hubris, wanting to be the strong protector type. Wanting to be a warrior. Powerful. Securing "wins." And these desires stem from his years as a soldier of Heaven, of equating worth with Results. Not something Dean has put on him or required of him.

But Dean doesn't see Cas's actions the way Cas perceives them. We as the omniscient audience know more about Cas's motivations than Dean does too. Dean often just sees Cas leaving, prioritizing the mission and shutting Dean out. However, I do think it's important to note that Dean is also usually willing to give Cas the benefit of the doubt, defend him, and forgives easily / implicitly.

They both care deeply about each other and don't maliciously mean to press on each other's specific insecurities and traumas but like, Dean is abandonment issues boy. And Cas keeps leaving. Or ignoring his calls when their daily lives are a constant life or death battle because they are literally living in a horror show! Dean is not unreasonable to be worried when he doesn't hear from Cas for days, weeks, months on end. He's not being "clingy" or "demanding." Expecting some base form of communication from the people you care about is normal in any relationship. Cas refusing to communicate in these moments IS a problem between them.

So, when Dean says, "Yeah, why does that something always seem to be you?" re: Cas being the "problem" it's harsh yes! But it's pushing them toward addressing this recurring issue (Cas going rogue often = plans backfiring) and the root of that issue which is Cas continuing to leave to do things on his own, change the game-plan without running it by anyone, and keeping others out. This moment is a breaking point. Because Dean, under normal circumstances, is generally one to defend, forgive, and move past Cas's mistakes. Cas himself says it in this very scene: "You used to trust me, give me the benefit of the doubt."

But at this point something needs to give, they need an explosive moment to just bring all these issues to light. It's a rupture.

Yes, Dean might "still blame [Cas] for Mary" but Cas also knows deeply, as he expresses to Jack, that Dean needs time and space to process his emotions. That he feels things more acutely and intensely but that ultimately he usually comes to a place of acceptance / forgiveness / is able to move on.

That's what Dean wants and needs in this moment. He needs space to deal with his feelings and his grief (clearly in the anger stage of it). And he also wants to finally address these issues! But Cas is also struggling himself and in his own mind he's feeding old insecurities. He let Belphegor get under his skin. He thinks he's not needed or wanted anymore. So, he does what he tends to do. Leave.

CASTIEL Well, I don't think there's anything left to say. [Castiel makes to leave.] DEAN Where you going?

Cas decides to leave and Dean immediately asks where are you going? Because even now, feeling how he does, he doesn't want Cas to leave.

What Dean wants is to have a confrontation. He wants to get to the root of their issues. He asks Cas why didn't he just stick to the plan. And emphasizes the concept of WE, of being a team. "We would've figured it out....after. With Rowena." He wants them to stick together, work together. But he's struggling. He's grieving. And still, he wants Cas to stay, of course I wanted you to stay.

And I say it all here in this post but the whole "I left but you didn't stop me" is just, Cas really? From Dean's POV he sees Cas's leaving as a choice Cas makes. He respects his choice and doesn't ask him to stay because he also does not feel he deserves to ask people to stay for him. He is always putting his own wants and desires second to those of others. He thinks, if Cas wants to leave, who is he to stop him?

Anyways, I think too much of divorce arc puts blame on Dean or makes Dean out to be "the bad guy" and "the reason" Cas leaves and the one who needs to "grovel" and apologize / be forgiven. But Cas is not blameless. Cas leaves because Cas leaves. Cas leaves because he chooses to and because he does not want to confront the realities of the situation or his own role in their issues. And after Cas leaves he continues to bury his head in the sand and be avoidant (thee core issue!) while also going out and working a solo case in an effort to secure a "win" and prove to himself that he's still capable of getting things right and not always failing.

And all of this, the complexity, the layers, Cas's stubbornness and flaws, is deeply delicious to me. Cas is not a blameless innocent little baby who got his feelings hurt by "big meanie Dean" in this situation. He is someone who heard a hard truth from someone he cares about and made the choice to leave instead of confronting the issue. And throughout it all, they both still deeply care about each other. It's evident in everything they do. And they want to work it out, but are both at different places and struggling with their own feelings too.