#her sympathizing with anakin for killing a group of people who murdered and tortured his mom isn’t as bad as y’all think

[skywalkr-nberrie]

Trying to argue that Padmé’s unwavering faith in Anakin is just the story’s way to default on her character because she didn’t hate Anakin for the Tusken Raider massacre, otherwise the story doesn’t care for her “agency” in that way is actually a stupid take I’d block anyone over.

[padawanlost]

Hi, sry this is a rough topic. Maybe bc Im not american I don’t understand the pov where people heavily like to bash Anakin for killing tusken raiders. I understand killing woman and children is wrong and no Im not getting him off the hook with that and I think he pays for it with his humanity in ep3 when he kills the younglings anyways. However, there are many who just call them “innocents” and I find that OOC...[]

[…] In the movies we only hear about how terrible and “monstrous” they are, and unofficial guide books shows how much of awful beings they’re supposed to be. Someone said it’s racist thing and again not an american so Idk about that, but the overall canon shows that they are indeed not so innocent adult or children alike. I’m just trying to understand where all the sympathy is coming from? Is it just another Anakin hate? What do you think? 

Hey!

Well, what Anakindid was wrong so many people hate him for it, that part is simple. Everything else, isn’t. I’ve seen peoplesay Anakin killed them because he was entitled, because he was “crazy”, he was afascist, etc. None of that is true, the movie make his reasons for slaughteringthat group pretty obvious. He did it because of what was done to Shmi.

However,what Anakin did was also textbook genocide. The moment Anakin slaughtered everyone who he identified as a TuskenRaider, instead of slaughtering only the responsible for the Shmi’s death hiscrimes evolved from murder motivated by revenge to genocide motivated by revenge*(more on this later). But, to be fair, that’s only part of story. We only seeAnakin’s real genocidal tendencies once he becomes Vader. Now, Vader was deeplymotivated by his prejudice against the Tusken and Tatooine in general.

 This world means as much to me as a speck of dust, and all its inhabitants might as well be dust too. As he returned to the Devastator, Vader considered the fact that Tatooine could be reduced to dust by the Death Star. He wondered if watching the sand planet’s obliteration might bring him any pleasure. It was a possibility he wouldn’t rule out. [The Rise and Fall of Darth Vaderby Ryder Windham]

Here is the thing: Anakin didcommit genocide and the Tusken did tortured Shmi. Honestly, I think the situationway too complex to label any of the parts simply as innocent or guilty.

People sympathizewith Tusken because they don’t like Anakin but, also, because the anti-TuskenRaiders movement was very real and widespread in Tatooine.

“What is driving them so close to thefarms?” Owen asked. “It’s been too longsince we’ve organized anything against them,” Cliegg replied gruffly. “We let the beasts run free, and they’re forgettingthe lessons we taught them in the past.” He looked hard at Owen’s skepticalexpression. “You have to go out thereand teach the Tuskens their manners every now and again.” Owen just stoodthere, having no response. “See how long it’s been?” Cliegg said with a snort.“You don’t even remember the last timewe went out and chased off the Tuskens! There’s the problem, right there!” [R.A.Salvatore’s Attack of the Clones]

The Lars family was being serenadedthrough yet another night by the lowing of many banthas. None of the four hadany doubt that Tuskens were out there, not far from the farm, perhaps even thenwatching its lights. “They’re wildbeasts, and we should have gotten the Mos Eisley authorities to exterminatethem like the vermin they are. Them and the stinking Jawas!” Shmi sighedand put her hand on her husband’s tense forearm. “The Jawas have helped us,”she reminded him gently. “Then not the Jawas!” Cliegg roared back, and Shmi jumped.Taking note of Shmi’s horrified expression, Cliegg calmed at once. “I’m sorry.Not the Jawas, then. But the Tuskens.They kill and steal whenever and wherever they can. No good comes of them!”[R.A. Salvatore’s Attack of the Clones]

The Tuskenraiders were victims. They were one of the native civilizations of Tatooine andthey were invaded over and over again for centuries. So, of course, they were forcedto adapt to survive and so also developed an understanding hatred of outsiders.And that hatred turned into violence and that violence affected both sides ofthe conflict. We all know what happens when a society invades another, and whathappened in Tatooine and the Tuskens wasn’t all that different from our ownworld. Their culture was “incompatible” with the invaders and, being outnumberand overpowered, they become the ostracized group (the savages, instead one ofthe rightful owners of the land). That created a cycle of violence thatresulted in many deaths on all sides.

Fearsome desert savages inhabiting the rocky JundlandWastes, Tusken Raiders are the foremost reason Tatooine colonists do not wanderfar from their isolated communities. Extremelyterritorial and xenophobic, Tusken Raiders will attack with very littleprovocation. They show no allegiance toeven their native world-mates, as these nomads have attacked Jawa scoutingparties on occasion. They have even gathered numbers large enough to attack theoutskirts of smaller towns like Anchorhead. [x]

The Tuskenwere victims, but that doesn’t meanthey were innocent. Understanding thereasons behind their behavior, doesn’t mean we can excuse it. Very much likeAnakin, you can be a victim and still be responsible for atrocious actions.

 Annie was [Shmi] comfort, her placeto hide from the pain the Tuskens had, and were, exacting upon her batteredbody. Every day they came in andtortured her a bit more, prodding her with sharp spears or beating her with theblunt shafts and short whips. It was more than a desire to inflict pain, Shmirealized, though she didn’t speak their croaking language. This was the Tuskenway of measuring their enemies, and from the nods and the tone of their voices,she realized that her resilience had impressed them. [R.A. Salvatore’s Attackof the Clones]

In Shmi’scase, they were not defending their territory against trespassers or securingtheir resources. There was no moral justification for what they did. The self-defenserhetoric doesn’t work here. There’re no excuse for Anakin’s actions but thereare no excuses for this cruelty either. One crime doesn’t justify another. TheTuskens being ostracized by Tatooine’s powerful groups, doesn’t make it alrightfrom them to kill and torture people. What Anakin did was terribly wrong but it’sobvious that his actions were motivated by vengeance, fear and rage, notmadness, racism or entitlement.

Don’t getme wrong, racism against Tusken Raiders in Tatooine did exist. But Anakin’sactions that particular night was not motivated by it. Anakin andShmi were victims of the Tusken. But that doesn’t make Anakin innocent. The sameway they had no right to torture and kill Shmi, Anakin had no right to slaughterthem. 

Anakin, too, had heard the voice ofQui-Gon, imploring him to restrain himself, to deny the rage. He hadn’t recognized it, though, for he was too full of pain and anger. He spotted a Tusken woman to theside, in front of another of the tents, carrying a pail of dirty water, and sawa Tusken child in the shadows of another nearby hut, staring at him with anincredulous expression. Then he was moving, though he was hardly aware of hisactions. [R.A. Salvatore’s Attack of the Clones]

Anakin had nothing against the Tusken before Shmi’s death. He and Shmi were one of the few people in Tatooine who were willing to help them. In fact,before Shmi’s death, Anakin risked his own life to help Tusken Raiders. As achild here is what he thought about Tusken Raiders:

The residents of Mos Espa, themselvesa less than respectable citizenry, hated the Sand People with a passion. Anakin had not yet made up his mind aboutthem. The stories were chilling, but he knew enough of life to know there weretwo sides to every story and mostly only one being told. He was intrigued bythe wild, free nature of the Tuskens, of a life without responsibility orboundaries, of a community in which everyone was considered equal. [The Phantom Menace by TerryBrooks]

“Master Anakin, we really shouldn’tbe out here at night,” the droid observed after a moment. “This country isquite dangerous.” “But we couldn’t leavehim, could we?” “Oh, well, that’s a very difficult determination to make.” […]TheTusken regarded him intently for a long minute, then slowly eased into asitting position, his wounded leg stretched out in front of him. “Uh, hello,”Anakin said, trying out a smile. The Tusken Raider made no response. “Are you thirsty?” the boy asked.[…] Finallyhe spoke again. The boy looked quickly at C-3PO. “He wants to know what you aregoing to do with him, Master Anakin,” the droid translated. Anakin looked backat the Tusken, confused. “Tell him I’m not going to do anything with him,” hesaid. “I’m just trying to help him getwell.” [The Phantom Menace by Terry Brooks]

That doesn’tsound like the thoughts of a person corrupted and motivated by prejudice. Andonce he left the Tatooine, his views didn’t change because here is whathappened when he met A'Sharad Hett (aJedi and Tusken):

As Obi-Wan approached the balcony, hecaught Anakin in the middle of asking astream of questions while the masked figure stood silently, watching thestars emerge over the vast cityscape. “You’re from Tatooine, too?” Anakin saidto his unresponsive companion. “Can you understand Basic? You might not believethis, but not too long ago, I actually saved a Tusken Raider’s life! I foundhim when I was out in the Xelric Draw. He was a bit bigger than you. Maybe he’sa friend of yours? Do you know where the Xelric Draw is? Or maybe your peoplehave another name for it? Did you ever see —?” [Ryder Windham’s The Life andLegend of Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Obi-Wan bowed slightly and said, “Iam Obi-Wan Kenobi.” Before the figure could respond, Anakin interjected, “Ithink he’s a Tusken Raider from Tatooine!” Pointing to the weapons at theTusken’s belt, Anakin added, “But he’s aJedi too, like us. Only he has two lightsabers.” Indeed, the quiet figureon the balcony was, by all appearances, a Tusken Raider. Obi-Wan could see hisown reflection as he peered into the red lenses of the Tusken Jedi’s goggles.“Please forgive my impetuous Padawan’s manners,” Obi-Wan said. “We welcome youto the Jedi Order, A’Sharad Hett.” [Ryder Windham’s The Life and Legend ofObi-Wan Kenobi]

Anakins, despitegrowing up surrounded by people hating on Tusken Raiders, was actually surprisinglyaccepting of them. He demonstrated no fear, no hate and no reservations, only ahealthy childish curiosity.

His viewsonly changed after Shmi’s death. and even then, he still managed to work with  A'Sharad Hett, who re-humanized the Tusken Raidersin Anakin’s eyes by removing his mask and showing him how similar they were.Anakin even confessed to Hett what happened in Tatooine. Unfortunately, after the war, as Vader, hewas too consumed by fear and hate to ever deal with what he did and change howhe looked at the Tusken.

To put it simply: the Tuskens were victims. That’s clear byhow some characters talk about them. But that doesn’t mean they are beyondreproach or are morally justified in everything they do. And it also doesn’tmean that what happened to Shmi wasn’t terrible crime or that Anakin killed thembecause he was entitled, privileged or racist.

Fans sympathize with the Tusken Raiders because they are were ostracized and killedby a violent and corrupt society that completely dehumanized them. And somepeople do try to make it all about Anakin and how Anakin is the worst™, whenin truth, the situation is much more complex than that.

The key here, imo, is to understand that though the Tusken Raiders were violent and victimized many Tatooine residents, they were also victims and have been victimized themselves. And that Anakin, though guilty of many crimes, wasn’t part of this particular problem until Shmi was killed. There victims on both sides, not many innocents.

[fantastic-nonsense]

I think what I ultimately don’t understand is why Disney nixed Rey Solo, especially within the context of what happens in TLJ.

First and foremost, they want us to care about Rey as a character, but more importantly, they want and expect us to care about her as a character in relation to the rest of the characters in this movie, specifically the Skywalker-Solo family. But if she’s Rey Random, why should she care? Why does she want to redeem Kylo, especially considering he tortured her, killed a man who was becoming a father figure to her, and severely injured another one of her friends literally the week before? Like yeah, ok, I could buy that she cares as a compassionate human being, but like...what is the point of Rey as a character narratively within the context of this really intense and convoluted family drama (and make no mistake, this is an intimate family drama) if she’s not significantly connected to the Skywalker family in some way (either in blood or in spirit)? Why is it her responsibility to attempt to drag Kylo back to the light? In short, why do we actually care about what their relationship is to each other, why they’re so important to each other, and how Rey’s story fits within the context of the greater Skywalker saga if she’s a random person?

Secondly, and most importantly, the question of Kylo. By all accounts, Kylo has had his “Mustafar” moment by the end of the movie (or his “Jedi Temple” moment, depending on what you view as Anakin’s “point of no return” moment in ROTS) and ends the movie as the Big Bad, having ordered the invasion on Crait and the destruction of the rest of the Resistance after killing Snoke. Like, at this point he has, on-screen, slaughtered an innocent village of people, tortured at least two of our protagonists (Poe and Rey), killed his father, gaslighted and emotionally manipulated Rey throughout their Force Bond relationship in TLJ, murdered the majority of Luke’s students, ordered and personally led the “destruction” of the Resistance on Crait (implicitly including his mother, Leia), and is indirectly responsible for the death of his uncle, our very own Luke Skywalker. Given that Carrie Fisher is dead and that they have to kill Leia off in IX, he will very likely be either directly or indirectly responsible for her death as well, meaning that as an individual, he is directly responsible for the death of every member of the Original Trilogy Trio. He has thus been set up as having a ‘devolution deconstruction’ arc where the only place for his narrative to go is with his death.

He is being set up as LOTF!Jacen Solo-turned-Darth Caedus and Rey is being set up as Jaina Solo, fated and grimly determined to kill him even as she holds out a little bit of hope that he can be saved. We as the viewers are literally being set up with this movie to watch a live-action rendition of Jacen and Jaina’s final duel in Invincible happen in IX, complete with Force Bond and all.

Which is why I’m so ridiculously baffled that Rey Solo didn’t happen.

Within the context of the narrative Disney’s Lucasfilm is trying to tell (a Solo child turning to the Dark Side and a young woman somehow connected with him from the very beginning fated to be his doom), the only way that this storyline makes actual sense on a narrative level is if Rey is Kylo’s sibling (or cousin, I guess, but I was never a fan of ReySky and that’s an issue for a separate post). Why have the Force Bond otherwise? Why have Rey sympathize with Kylo to the extent that she’s actively trying to pull him back to the light? Why does Rey personally care in any way what Kylo’s choices or decisions are if she’s not related to him in some way (either as a sibling, cousin, or spiritual relation in the form of being a Kenobi)? Her deep concern for Kylo’s personal redemption (as opposed to just being determined to end him in the same way that Dooku, Greivous, and Palpatine needed to die) falls completely flat without this connection, because there is no real reason for her to become emotionally invested in Kylo’s character arc or even particularly care either way what happens to him in the first place if she doesn’t share that familial/filial bond.

They’ve literally facelifted the Solo Family Tragedy narrative from the Legacy of the Force series and twisted it in such a way that it doesn’t actually make sense anymore: Jacen and Jaina’s deep and intense Force Bond that leaves them never “ever truly alone” and is “as much a part of them as the Force itself” is what makes the duel on the Anakin Solo in Invincible so unbelievably tragic: a sister is being forced to kill the twin brother she has loved, fought beside, and supported her entire life and with whom she shares an intimate mental bond. Without that connection, any final duel between them would feel hollow and empty. Jaina is the one who goes to kill Jacen because she is the only one who can: Luke can’t allow himself to face Jacen because of Mara’s death, Han isn’t Force Sensitive, Anakin [Solo] is dead, Ben already tried and failed to kill him, and Leia can’t bring herself to kill her own child, but Jaina? She’s the Sword of the Jedi, who will “never know peace” but will be “blessed for the peace [she brings] to others.” The burden falls to her because she is the only one strong enough and the only one who knows Jacen well enough to beat him.

In the context of the new trilogy and the direction ‘The Last Jedi’ is seemingly pointing, this is the showdown we are being narratively prepared for: one last duel, Rey vs. Kylo, battling for the fate of the universe and ending with Kylo staring death in the face “in rage and exhaustion and despair.” Han failed, Luke’s dead, and Leia will be going the same way, leaving Rey as the sole person with enough of a connection to Kylo and enough determination to finish the job. Rey is being set up to be Jaina, holding Kylo as he dies and mourning the vestiges of the person he used to be and the person he could have been had fate been less cruel.

Except that that heartwrenching connection isn’t there

Rey has no personal connection with the Skywalkers or Solos and certainly doesn’t share the kind of deeply personal historical relationship with Kylo that Jaina shares with Jacen. This final battle that we are being prepped for as viewers is narratively empty if Rey has no genuine, heartfelt connection to this man and more generally his family to help us feel the depths of her pain at having to kill him, something that TLJ does not accomplish satisfactorily. She understands him, but that genuine connection based on a lifetime together is just...not there.

So we’re left with an emotionally empty and narratively unsatisfying storyline that leaves out the best parts of Jacen Solo’s turn to the Dark Side and keeps the worst aspects: the murder of a beloved family member, a galactic-scale war, mass slaughter and destruction, and a deeply troubled man’s descent into the Dark Side at the expense of the lives of everyone around him.

And I am just...baffled at Disney’s narrative choices, because if this is where they wanted to go and they knew that from the beginning, Rey Solo is what needed to happen to make that a satisfying reality. And yet we’re left with Rey Random and whatever last vestiges of hope that TLJ gives us. And to top it all off, they’re going to have an embittered group of EU fans that knows exactly where this storyline came from and how much Disney fucked it up with their storytelling choices about Rey’s parentage and her connection with Kylo. And all of that, especially knowing what we could have had and especially considering Disney’s insistence that the EU “was dead, gone, and not coming back,” leaves a bad taste in my mouth.