#hellers be like: 'so what if the show got a bibro ending

[lol-jackles]

https://www.tumblr.com/teamfreewill2pointo/750106101611151360/hi-finale-anon-here-thank-you-so-much-for-your

I’d love to get your take on this post. I don’t agree with it. Supernatural was about Sam’s hero journey which the finale completes the arc established over the 15 seasons.

Why is it difficult for people to see the basic and timeless story construct?

Supernatural is Sam Winchester's Hero Journey, it's all here in the "Hero Journey" tag. Dean Winchester is a very popular character, the awesome sauce but not the main course, which I explained in the "Support Protagonist" tag.

Link. Here I had thought Will viewed the finale through Destiel-rose-colored glasses but it turned out he was interpreting it through BiBro-stanning-lens. And Will's proof that SPN is just as much as about Dean as it is about Sam is, wait for it, "Dean was given a myth arc"', as in singular.... out of 15 seasons. Did he mean season 10? Because according to Jensen, season 10 was a “rare Dean centric storyline” and how "Dean's rarely in this position of being the focal point of the general story's motivation," (X). Is Will disregarding Jensen's own words?

Will: "you can't remove one brother without the whole thing falling apart."

True you can't remove Sam, otherwise there is no story. Once Jared planned to leave SPN, WB canceled the series. Remove Dean and with some minor tweaking, SPN will mostly still be the same (X) but it probably wouldn't have lasted 15 seasons. It would be more like Buffy with 7 seasons. (X)

Will: Sam returned to the ordinary world and got a wife and child because it did it for Dean.

Actually Dean gave his blessing and permission for Sam to return to the ordinary life he always wanted for himself. It's why season 15 clumsily shoehorned "Drag Me Away" episode just a few weeks from the finale to remind the audience that Sam wanted out of the hunting life since he was a kid. Yes Sam went to hell for Dean but it was unquestionable that Sam also did it to save the world. It set Sam apart from Dean's motive for going to hell which was only to save Sam, he didn't care about the world.

Will: "everything Sam did was for Dean".

Yes, by giving up his own desire for an ordinary life so that Dean wouldn't be alone. Sam told Charlie back in season 9 that he only stayed in the hunting life because he loved Dean. But that's not enough for AA stans and even some Bibro stans because they may have realized that Dean and the hunting world is the "belly of the beast" that every protagonist enters as part of their hero journey arc, which goes against their personal biases or agendas.

Will's Anon was only talking up to Return of the Jedi in their Star Wars analogy and Sam never became a witch and he never "used his powers". Holy smoke that was the whole point of depowering Sam after season 5 so that he doesn't end up an ex dues machina! Or am I mis-reading Will's writing and he was actually talking about Sam's power in the first 5 seasons?? Regardless, Sam is NOT a witch, what the heck is Will smoking???

Will, listen to me carefully: Luke's hero journey goal was to become a Jedi. Sam's hero journey goal was to return to the ordinary world. It was never supposed to be a one-to-one comparison, Kripke never said that.

Now we come to Will's streaming value argument by using the 2023 chart to "prove" that the Carry On finale isn't driving equal watch time for each season. How is that supposed to even make sense? Will is ignoring the very basic human nature of simply tiring out from watching so many episodes. The rate of decreasing viewership from season to season is fairly consistent. Unlike hellers, the general viewers will start with the first season and gradually peter out.

A bad series finale will kill the popularity of the show and gets memory-holed. A disappointing series finale will put a big question mark in the rewatch value. "Carry On" finale did none of this because it made narrative sense, as Jensen said when he paraphrased what Kripke told him.

See my "Carry On finale is awesome and here's bunch of reasons why" tag.

[meowmeowmessi]

Heller tantrum now be like, 'I knew it, canon is a bibro/wincestie and it killed our ship from happening. Whatever. Our ship is real and no one can prove that it's not, so there.'

skjsksjksjskj LIT RALLY. LIKE,,,,,,,,, outwardly they're going, "Eww incest ewww y'all really think they made incest canon ewwww you're such freaks eWwWWwWWW" (we don't think romantic wincest went canon but whatever you say ig lmfao) but from what I can tell, when they're amongst fellow crazies in their cult group meetings all they yell about is "THEY MADE INCEST CANON THE HELL. SAM AND DEAN ARE SOULMATES WTF?????? DEAN WAITED FOR SAM IN HEAVEN?????? THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING AAAAAAAAAA" I'm seeing hilarious screenshots on Twitter of hellers (being shared by non-hellers who are laughing over them) bemoaning all the ~incestuous~ season finales, the s8 finale being most noteworthy: "Oh god I don't know what to tell you guys but dean said there's nothing past or present he'd put in front of sam iN A C H U R C H LIKE WHO SAYS THAT TO THEIR BROTHER 🤢🤢🤢 Get therapy dean please 😭😭😭" It's so fucking funny nonnie. It's like the finale actually opened their eyes to reality and they hate what they're seeing so they're burying their heads deeper in the sand 😂😂😂 it's great 😂😂😂

[holding-out-for-an-antihero]

Destiel, Reylo, and Schrödinger's Canon

It’s now been over a year since the release of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker and nearly 4 months since the Supernatural finale aired. As someone who’s involved in both fandoms, it’s been really striking to see the similarities of what happened with the Star Wars fandom and Reylo compared to what’s currently happening in the SPN fandom with Destiel.  And while these are obviously two very different ships and fandoms with different dynamics at play, I do think the two situations have a lot in common. For instance-

Both Destiel and Reylo are the largest ships in their respective fandoms, but they’re also very divisive with vocal groups of fans who are against these particular ships. Additionally, the fandoms themselves are split among different factions of people who have very different (and fundamentally incompatible) ideas about what both these franchises are REALLY about (Reylos vs. The Fandom Menace, Hellers vs. Bibros/Bronlies).

Both Destiel and Reylo are made canon at the end of the story with a heroic sacrifice culminating with a love confession/kiss, respectively, only for one of the characters to be immediately killed off.  Like, IMMEDIATELY. Now, this in and of itself isn’t weird. Lots of couples become canon right as a franchise is ending, and plenty of love stories have tragic endings. However, what makes these two instances truly bizarre is . . .

This newly-canonized romance between two of the central characters is NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN IN THE STORY. We don’t see the surviving character really react to or process the other character’s death, and no other characters ever bring it up in any substantial way. Instead of treating it like a major story development, it’s instead treated like a weird little story blip that happens and is then immediately forgotten about by everyone.

This results in a weird tonal disconnect between the story the creators think they’ve written and the one they’ve actually given us. They think they’ve written a happy ending (Dean’s in Heaven! Rey’s a Skywalker!), but what we really got was an unacknowledged tragedy with no catharsis whatsoever (Dean never got to speak his truth to Cas; Rey is still alone & her soulmate is dead). Which feels super shitty, and not in a good way like a well-written tragedy.

Furthermore, the romance is barely addressed by the creators themselves. It’s not mentioned in marketing, interviews or convention panels with cast/creators etc. It’s almost as if the very people who created the storyline are embarrassed or ashamed of it and are doing their best to pretend it didn’t happen.

The weirdness of everything leads to the rise of various conspiracy theories (some of which are eventually shown to be correct) within the fandoms involving edited-down scenes, last-minute ADR, alternate cuts with better endings, and actors being secretly unhappy with their character’s arcs.

Of course there are additional factors to consider (in particular, the impact of homophobia on the SPN ending).  But I do think it’s interesting that an enemies-to-lovers het ship from one of the largest franchises in the world and a queerbaiting slash ship from a long-running television cult classic both botched their endings so badly and in such similar ways.

Finally, speaking personally as someone who was heavily invested in both these ships/fandoms, these endings serve as nasty reminders that these franchises aren’t for people like you- the female fans, the queer fans, the anyone-who-isn’t-a-straight-white-dude fans. It’s for those REAL fans who watch & interpret the show/movie in the Correct Way™.

[remythologise]

Hello! I found your blog via you amazingly summarizing all that's going on with the spn drama. Due to my schedules, rl stuff, some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me, my availability to find a place to watch...the rollercoaster I was used to with this fandom was more me binging it in a weekend to going months to over a year without watching it. I still haven't watched the last season(but with a fandom this big it's pretty impossible not be spoiled so I more or less know what happened) BUT oh great one I ask of thee for more information if you have it...other than being busy and whatnot, I'm not really one to keep up with the actors as well. So could you also maybe do a summary of all the stans? I'im seeing terms I haven't seen before. Who is Kelios(sp?)? Hellions?? probably messed it up but like...I guess what are the name of each legion? Who do they have alliance towards? What was their desires? Que paso?!?!?!?

Hi there! 'Some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me' me emotionally quitting Supernatural in Season 7 after they killed Castiel 😂 Anyway I totally get it, I went through the same culture shock mid-last year when I got back into SPN and tried to find where fandom was at! There's really a LOT of lore and content after 15 years though so I'll just do the broad brushstrokes based on my impressions and personal stereotypes PLEASE remember this is oversimplifying groups and individuals to tendencies and I'm very biased! Also important that there are sub-factions within sub-factions - again, I'm simplifying here!

I've also linked to the 'Super-wiki' in terms of some definitions because the Super-wiki has pages for them where the Fandom-wiki does not. Great introduction actually - only in the Supernatural fandom. There are two Supernatural wikis. One, through curation and twitter activity, supports BiBro/Wincest factions and does not support Destiel users. One is more neutral or Destiel-friendly (I don't know that the Fandom wiki has a personality/social media presence per se). You cannot make this up. There is a factional war... within use of fandom wikis.

Destiel faction

People who primarily ship Dean/Cas, love Castiel and (often, although not always) Jack, and the 'found family' of Supernatural as well as the brothers, and like the post s3 seasons too. Hated 15.19 and 15.20 for killing Dean and ignoring the other characters/narrative arc of the show. Nicknamed 'Destihellers' by the Wincest faction as a derogatory term, 'reclaimed' and shortened as 'Hellers', a nickname they use affectionately to describe each other. See more info on nicknames here.

Sometimes also ship ‘Cockles’ (the ship between Misha Collins and Jensen Ackles) although generally speaking they're more respectful of the wives of the actors than J2 shippers, who are notoriously responsible for... a vast series of insane-fan misdemeanours. Historically most were also good at keeping RPF to themselves and not harassing celebrities with it directly, although recently, particularly with younger twitter fans, that has not been the case.

Sub-factions:

The ‘Desticule’ or ‘Destiel tumblr’ - general grouping of Destiel-shipping tumblr users around 20-30 years old, usually LGBT+, most who came back to the show post-15.18 after leaving it for various reasons including getting sick of the queerbaiting. Funniest bitches alive etc. and responsible for the best text posts you’ve ever seen. Can also start stupid discourse and in-group drama when they’re bored.

'POLOL' - People of Lots of Letters, a discord group (of tumblr and twitter users) that ran on the assumption Andrew Dabb was playing a hugely intricate game of 3D chess to do with gnostic symbolism among other things, and would make Destiel canon. Have since had their own factional sub-wars and fallen apart a bit. Some of their meta was and is good and interesting! Some of it was wildly off the mark. Now generally insist that Dabb/the writers were all pushing for Destiel canon and the network is entirely to blame.

Twitter fans (TikTok edition) - younger fans around 18 and younger who (FOR REASONS BEYOND ME) started watching the show around 2018-2020. Definition of 'stans'. Tend to be very loud and aggressive on twitter when Events Happen, which like. I do get, because they've grown up in a completely different media environment and this kind of Dinosaur Politicking around LGBT+ issues is beyond them. Fancam central. Anyway stream #CASTIEL for clear skin!

Twitter fans (AO3 edition) - older fans around 30+ who kept going with the show but either don't have a large tumblr presence or just prefer twitter. A lot of fic writers, GISH-ers, and BNFs in this group. Some of them are very cool and reasonable in their opinions, some of them act like the younger stans. Some of them too accepting of what happened wrt 15.19-20 in my opinion, because, in contrast to the younger twitter stans, they grew up expecting Destiel to NEVER be canon or respected. 'Can't believe we got this far' etc.

Multiship faction

Multishippers or shippers of things not as large as the two main behemoths . Sub-factions based on shipping, e.g. Megstiel and Sastiel. I don't think these groups are very large though, and seem to have very little influence in the Discourse.

Wincest faction

LARGE overlap with the 'BiBro' faction and their opinions, which I'll get to. Ship Sam and Dean romantically. Often pretend to be BiBros on places like twitter and reddit in order for outside groups to take their opinions more seriously. 'Wincesties' etc. are derogatory nicknames given by the Destiel faction.

Sub-factions:

Multiship fans - ship Sam and Dean but respect Castiel/the 'found family'. Politically overlap with the faction of multishippers, I think. I don't have a lot of insight on this group of people honestly, but I know they exist.

Bronlies - the typical BiBro and 'Wincest' shippers most people think of, twitter user 'Kelios' is one of the would-be ringleaders of this faction - typically tend to be older white midwestern women. Historically have been pretty nasty on twitter (leading to Robert Berens, writer who made Destiel canon, occasionally subtweeting Kelios). Also tend to ship 'J2' - and take it very seriously as a legitimate thing that is really real. This is called 'tinhatting'.

BiBro faction

People who think the show should JUST be about the brothers, love Supernatural s1-3 and everything after it should have been just like Supernatural s1-3. Hate Castiel, Jack, and the 'found family'. Largely loved 15.20. Go to literally any comments section on any Supernatural article and You Will Find Them complaining about how the show should just be about the Brothers. Tend to be older, straighter, and more conservative/Republican (and male) fans. (I am aware that the definition of 'BiBro' used to refer to people who just liked the brothers but there's no definitional difference now in the discourse.) The Wincest and BiBro faction are generally much more wealthy than the Destiel faction (they being younger and more diverse/queer/left-leaning in general) and would be the biggest revenue generators at conventions etc.

Sub-factions:

Reddit bros - literally anyone who visits r/supernatural. Well, that's not fair - there are people who post reasonable opinions on there, but it's pretty rare and they get downvoted a lot. Like to talk about 'toxic Destiel fans' 'ruining the show' and how Dean is a straight man who is straight and could never possibly be gay. Might even think the confession was platonic despite all evidence to the contrary. I'm Not Homophobic I Have Gay Friends, But No Gays on MY Show!

Old Guard - group of older fans who overlap strongly with the Wincest faction, but might not necessarily ship Wincest.

GA faction

'General Audience' - These are the group of audience members that aren't 'online' so to speak; most watch the show on TV as a Casual Viewing Experience (are therefore also sometimes referred to as 'casuals'. Mostly their opinions tend towards BiBros, but they have a vast range of baffling views thanks to being Not Online and usually Not caring about Supernatural that much or thinking that deeply about it.

Sub-factions:

People who simply watch Supernatural on TV and then don't think about it very much after that.

I said they weren't 'online' but that's not entirely true; I'd probably classify people on Supernatural Facebook Groups as GA, along with friends of friends who post statuses about how 15.20 was a neat finale that wrapped up the series.

Conclusion

Supernatural is famously the show that appeals to both Republicans and Democrats, literally All Orientations, so there's a WIDE range of factions. However, most warring online boils down to Destiel vs. Wincest/BiBro - the war that started in Season 4 and has simply never ended. In terms of the 'actors' and their stans, in general, Wincest/BiBro fans love Jared, like Jensen, and dislike Misha. Destiel fans love Misha, like Jensen, and dislike Jared. Of course as with everything, there are variations and this is just a generalisation. But that's the summary of it, from my perspective!

This didn't even get into Sam girls, Dean girls and Cas girls. God. Anyway.

Hope that answered your question, anon!

[wincestisnotabuse]

Bibros:It feels a little medieval, if you ask me

Like I'm watching a sequel I've already seen

I could tell you what happens to the new king

When he goes out of fashion

Hellers(after realising the show is about brothers) : I want my money back now-ow

I've been in the wrong crowd-owd

I'd never say it out loud-oud

But I've hated every word that comes out of your mouth (to Misha about queerbating them)

Hellers to bibros and Jared :

What should we fight about this time?

What will you write about this time?

What does it matter if you're not fine?

You should've kept that shit offline

Bibros(chorus) : It feels a little medieval, if you ask me

Like I'm watching a sequel I've already seen

I could tell you what happens to the new king

When he goes out of fashion

It feels a little medieval kissing the ring

In a gothic cathedral, have you ever seen

What really happens to people like me

When we go out of fashion?

BIBROS AN OCTAVE HIGHER BECAUSE WE CAN(about hellers to audience) :

They're gonna tear you from your pedestal, it's almost inevitable

I'm not being cynical, it's so unoriginal

If you get political, they'll make you a criminal

It's all a bit biblical

bibros(harmonising an octave lower for PPL like me):

Don't put your camera down

You don't go to Heaven in a crown

Bibros after hellers said we got incesty ending even tho we kept saying two brothers being affectionate is not incest.. but now we will BLOW THEM WITH OUR WINCEST POST)

It's not worth the money bringing me back from the dead

I never said it would be any fun (IT IS ACTUALLY)

You never should've trusted anyone (yes USE UR EYES AND BRAIN)

They'll love you 'til they know you're done (Misha ... You have to accept the reality)

And then it's off with his head (yeah yep yep yep)

Everyone: It feels a little medieval, if you ask me

Like I'm watching a sequel I've already seen

I could tell you what happens to the new king

When he goes out of fashion

It feels a little medieval kissing the ring

In a gothic cathedral, have you ever seen

What really happens to people like me

When we go out of fashion?

[eisforeidolon]

'stiel shippers are already making up conspiracy theories about how 15x19 ending is actually a fake, homophobic ending meant to fool people and 15x20 will have the true ending where Cass comes back and their ship becomes unequivocally, mutually canon and it's endgame. They've gone full TJLC with the fix-it episode theory and I can't say that I'm surprised at all.

Yeah, negative levels of surprise there. 

When Misha was posting all those travel pictures from around the US while J2 were quarantining, it was all a ruse!  TPTB made him post old pictures to hide where he was and his generic motel rooms could be in Vancouver!  He lives in Washington, so that’s probably close enough he doesn’t have to quarantine anyway!  They can’t leave the guy who saVeD tEH ShOw out of the last two episodes!!  Doesn’t matter that they let the actors spoil Mark P. and Jake A. and Jim B.’s returns, nah, they had to try and keep whether Misha was there or not a surprise!

Now this.  They managed to recognize when an episode was pandering to bibros with 15x19.  Which honestly was a bit of an accomplishment for them, given the hilarious exercise in palpable denial their “meta” about Red Meat is.  It certainly isn’t even all of them that managed it, given the usual blinkered nonsense floating around declaring Dean being drunk is desolation about Castiel (not, you know, hopelessness their whole world is still gonna end and everybody is gone but him, Sam, and Jack - just like their Mary who? nonsense in season 13).  Not to mention the insisting to each other Dean was totally willing to kill Sam to get Cas back, lalalalaing right through how the brothers were offering to kill each other and both be gone for the revival of, again, everybody else.  I digress ... and go on for a bit after this, so have a cut:

The point is, they recognize that having the Winchesters drive off into the sunset together is pandering to bibros, but they refuse to accept that whole scene destroying Castiel’s character was just pandering to them.  Despite how out of nowhere with zero previous buildup to support it being twue lurve it was.  Despite how this was supposedly planned for a year, yet the characters have been more at odds than ever.  Despite how one-sided it was.  Despite how, no matter how much they keep insisting to people in the comments under official CW posts that there is NO WAY to see it as anything but romantic, non-shippers and more casual fans keep daring to say they see it as familial (the NERVE!).  Despite how, while you could fairly say it’s become The Jack Show in recent years, it has never been the Dean & Cas show outside of shippers’ fevered imaginations.  So while pandering to them any harder than was already done is gonna get some WTF from the general audience?  Pandering to bibros just means making Sam & Dean’s show about ... Sam & Dean.  Which nobody in the general audience is gonna bat an eye at.

Doesn’t matter that the network president still talks about doing a revival with, specifically, J2.  Doesn’t matter most of the legitimate press over the series ending focuses particularly on J2 and Sam & Dean’s ending.  Doesn’t matter that the ones the actual co-showrunners consulted about tweaking the finale scripts post-COVID are, repeat it with me, J2.  Jared is totally a cheerleader for their ship, we know this because reasons!  Jensen must have changed his mind since last time he said his character was straight, because nobody’s asked him in the last five minutes and that’s the “right” answer they want him to say!  Misha said Jensen was totally into it and Misha *cough* never lies!

As I’ve said before, I put nothing 100% past Dabb.  I would not be even a little surprised if we get at least somebody mentioning somewhere next episode that Castiel got resurrected off-screen again.  Or if there’s some implication the brothers see him again in a way shippers could pretend totally had to involve hooking up with Dean. However, while we know Misha will bend whichever way the minion $$$ wind blows, and Dabb comes off as desperate for ass-pats on twitter from the hellers & minions blowing smoke up his ass?  He has played both sides for years in ways the general audience can dismiss (again, hard to do that and make reciprocated twue lurve “cannon”).  Dabb is also a co-showrunner with Singer who isn’t all over fandom and seemed kind bemused by it and previously said the ship was never discussed as a thing in the writer’s room while the ‘hellers were insisting their secret storyline was totes in there, guise. 

Likewise, I would be very surprised if after years of being harassed by a handful of disrespectful asshole “fans” to do so, Jensen agreed to just give in and change the character he’s been very invested in playing for fifteen years to please those jerks.  For something that suddenly and arbitrarily changes the character’s sexuality away from how he has explicitly said he has been playing it for fifteen years for a 40+ year old character in the very last episode.  For something Misha has implied he and Berens went behind his back to do in terms of Castiel’s end - that any idiot with two brain cells to rub together could figure out would lead to more harassment directed his way especially if he dared object (and would be objecting to another actor’s choices for their own character). For something that undermines what he has said repeatedly that he sees as the fundamental basis of the show.

None of that matters, though!  They’ve convinced themselves that they’re the only real audience and only they know the true story - the rest of us are just some sad definitely tiny group of pathetic hangers on that don’t understand the show has Changed Now and is really about the grEatEST LurVe stORy nEVeR tolD!  It’s what their whole echo chamber the whole audience wants ... because they say so!  

[persephone-garnata]

Can you just shut the fuck up about ship wars and trashing other characters/pairings like a fucking four year old? I'm so fucking sick of not being able to enjoy the Wincest tag because its full of whiny cunts like you kicking off and making the dumb ass ship wars worse. Seriously, just enjoy what you got given and focus on your own healthy, happy space.

Wow, it’s been a while since I’ve gotten an angry anonymous ask! The SPN finale really has made my moribund tumblr spring back to life. Thanks Nonny!

To answer your question, I *am* enjoying what I got given (very much) and I *am* focusing on my own healthy, happy space. I’m reblogging gifsets and meta, and planning my first new fanfic in more than two years. I’m thoroughly enjoying myself again, in a fandom that, up until this last week, I’d more or less abandoned. I’ve also made exactly one (1) gloating text post which has gotten a bit of attention, and which is presumably what you’ve seen that’s made you so angry with me. And all I can say is - well, I don’t think I’d be gloating right now, still less trashing other characters and pairings, if it hadn’t been for the relentlessness of the destihellers over the last twelve years, flooding the Supernatural tag and social media in general with stuff about their ship and ignoring the brothers who were actually the heart of the show.

Believe it or not, I used to like Castiel. I used to quite happily think of him as in love with Dean, and I’ve read Destiel fanfic. But I got so fed up with the endless posts on here trashing Sam, twisting Dean’s character completely out of shape, and trying to make literally everything on the show about Destiel, that I grew to hate Cas, and Destiel. I got to the point where my heart sank every time I saw Misha’s name on the opening credits, and I looked at my phone whenever he was on screen. After 15.18 and the online reaction to That Scene, (which even spilled over from fandom spaces to the normie internet so it was inescapable!) I was really anxious about what the final two episodes might hold, and how unbearable the destihellers would be if their ship got any further validation.

And then... well we all know what came next.

So yeah, I’m happy right now, and schadenfreude at the hellers is a part of that happiness. In time I think the schadenfreude will probably fade, and I’ll just remain happy that, after fifteen seasons of my favourite erotically co-dependent brothers, we (wincest shippers/bibro fans) finally got the ending we deserve. And I don’t intend to make any more gloating text posts (although that isn’t a promise...)

This is a very long and serious answer to a grouchy sweary anonymous ask you probably expected me to simply ignore, but you can rest assured that I’m gonna keep enjoying the sweet sweet wincest, and not waste any more time and energy on the hellers.

[missjackil]

What season or episode of the show do you believe is most underrated?

I definitely think season 12 is underrated. There is so much great stuff in it and I think it got overlooked for stupid reasons.  

Season 12 is the first season I got to watch live. I started watching the show in 2016 and binged all the way through season 11 and joined the fandom on Tumblr that summer. What I walked into here was a bunch of fans complaining that Dabb took over and because some delusional Hellers kept insisting that he (Dabb) hates the” toxic brodependency” and would put an end to it, and make Destiew canon, the samgirls, deangirls, and bibros hated the season before it started. I will admit I followed suit and wasn’t anticipating season 12 myself and tried hard to hate it, but more often than not I found myself saying “Wow that was really good!” 

I loved how the Big Bad was just a human organization. After all the monsters, demons, gods etc the boys had beaten, it was refreshing to see they are still human and can still get their bells rung by normal humans. I also loved how they took the harder, more realistic route with Mary’s return. They didn't make her a villain or a perfect mother, but made her human. She reacted like so many humans do when united with their adult children. It makes me think someone on staff actually went through it. To know that yes, I know you're my children, and I do love you, but I don't KNOW you as adults and I cant slip into my role as a parent. The same with the boys, she wasn't what they had built up in their minds. They love her but they don't know her and can't understand why she needs space. 

This was also the first season since introducing Cas that did nothing to pander to the Hellers. Thus showing the fans that no, Dabb is not making that ship canon, and it kept Sam and Dean on the same page, being more open and honest, and more dependant than other seasons had before s11. 

Sure the season had flaws but all seasons do. The penultimate episode Who We Are was fantastic! I remember crying at the end of that, with Sam’s group hug and saying “Ok... if the series ended right now Id be satisfied” 

Season 12 is my favorite season, followed closely with S14 which is also highly underrated, but I think by then, people were too comfortable in their unnecessary Dabb hate to realize how good it’s gotten. 

Great Ask! Thank you!

[go-diane-winchester]

Why Jensen can't stop Misha?

When I did my post about Misha's inadequacy as a man, I was wondering whether I should do a post about Jensen and his fear of other people in his personal space.  Then an awesome creature tagged me onto a hideous heller post, which has my blood boiling.  The idiot heller posted the filth in the general tags and is therefore fair game.  Apparently the gifs below are gush worthy.

  This was a turn on for @cas-is-my-spirit-animal-bruh.  Now, if the idiot had just tagged it destiel, we wouldn't have to see it and go into gag mode.  Look at the second gif.  Jensen has his hand in front of his face.  He is trying to block Misha.  And how many times is he saying stop.  Remember the red carpet for the 300th episode party.  He was messing with Jensen's tie and Jensen physically turned away saying ''stop it''.  It also reminds me of that horrendous photo op where Misha grabbed Jensen's hands forcefully and Jensen tried to wrangle his hand out of Misha's grasp, screaming at him.  Misha loves that power because he is dominant one. 

Now, the hellers may argue that Jensen gave his go-ahead to show this clip.  Why would he do that?  There are a few suppositions.  The bibro, who directed me to this monstrosity, had this to say:

''Why would he agree to publish this sick footage? My guess: for fandom to finally see the true face of Misha and how far he is willing to go in his sickening pandering to the shippers. This is the personality of Misha and the reality of how shipping negatively influences the working environment on set. He [Jensen] probably didn’t count on minions being that nasty that they would romanticize this, because hey! their overlord can’t do no wrong!!! (sarcasm).''

A good supposition.  I have a theory as well.  Have you noticed how Jensen's words and actions are sometimes incongruous with each other.  He gets upset if you ask him anything ship-related, and yet he will snap shippy photos during his photo op.  He rolls his eyes at the mere mention of Misha but the minute Danneel says she loves Misha, Jensen obediently chimes in ''who doesn't?''.  He clashes with himself.  I think Jensen is easy to maneuver into doing things against his will.  All you have to do is give him the right motivation and he will do exactly what you want. 

What is his motivation as far as Danneel is concerned?

Simple.  That's his wife.  He is trying to help her acquire a piece of the Supernatural pie, and she chose Misha's fan base, because she thinks Jensen's fans don't like her.  And when HatersOfDanneel [an abstractly named twitter handle] attacked her, Misha conveniently came to the rescue, although he does that for no one else.  This is how you win favors, people.  This is how inmates gain a ''fresh meat's'' confidence.  Set up a fake enemy to harass your prey and then save the prey, so he will feel indebted to you.  This is what I hypothesized happened here.  Jensen went along with what Danneel wanted, because every man is afraid of a nagging wife.  He would never hear the end of it. 

What is his motivation as far as Destiel is concerned?

Jensen has a manager, a publicist and assistants.  Are all of them blind?  How are they all unaware of Jensen's discomfort.  How come hellers get away with threatening Jensen?  Do none of them see Misha's panel footage?  Why are these people so lax?  I think Misha networked with Jensen's people, and he used fear of possible PR problems if their star, Jensen, is seen as a homophobe.  If Jensen loses public favor due to accusations of bigotry, his career is going to take a nosedive.  And if that happens, all his people whom he employed, will have to deal with a very unsteady financial future in a turbulent economic climate. 

So Misha did the spin doctor spiel on them and they in turn, spun Jensen's head.  Jensen does what they say, even though he hates it, for fear of disrepute.  That is why he has no congruency in his speech and actions, because playing pretend has its limitations.  When you get angry, you forgot what you were supposed to do or say?  So that also might be why that particular piece of footage made it into the gag reel.  Jensen gave his permission because his people told him to.  Did Misha ever speak directly to Jensen?  Maybe.  And he probably used the same spiel.  ''Just tolerate it, Jensen.  Trying to correct them might make matters worse.  The LGBT will feel like you hate them.  And you don't want them to think that, do you?''  Fun fact:  Spin doctor is term used in politics and government.  Misha just happened to intern at the white house.  He must have learned something there.  Other than stealing white house property. 

I think Jensen is caught between a rock and a hard place.  I think this gif set and the photo ops, are actually more troublesome to him than he lets up.  The reason why I think so, is the 1999 cowboy photo shoot.  Jensen mentioned it at a con, and immediately Jared pulled a cringy face, and then became uncharacteristically serious, which leads me to believe Jensen spoke to Jared about this, which is why Jared is so protective of him.  He knows about Jensen's fear, especially since I think the fear is still there, lying dormant within Jensen.    I mildly considered Jensen's discomfort regarding that photo shoot to be baffling.  Jensen has done shirtless scenes in DOOL, Dark Angel and Supernatural.  What was so bad about this photo shoot? 

Then I remember the uproar Corey Feldman created in the media.  I watched a documentary called The Open Secret which, unfortunately, is no longer available on YouTube.  Apparently there is a pedo ring that targets young boys who go to work in the industry.  There is a link between agents, photographers and the elite.  The photographers basically showcase the boys to the rich magnets.  I think they do sales work, and probably get a commission.  Since the boys are merchandise, it is the photographer's job to make the merchandise look attractive.  Whilst watching the doccie, I wondered how come Jensen didn't get targeted.  He was way more beautiful than any of his peers in 1999.  And he looked younger than his peers.  He entered the industry, at 18 , 1996, without a chaperone.  He should have been fair game.  Someone pointed out that when this photo shoot took place he was around 21.  Correct. 

Then I saw the pictures taken at the photo shoot and something stood out, that gelled with what the detectives and psychologists etc, in the documentary were saying. 

That shoot lasted a long time, probably half the day.  The team took many pictures with horses and lassoing.  I think it was a shoot for a magazine.  Most of the pictures don't look bad.  So its baffling that Jensen hates all of them.  These above pictures stand out.  According to the detective, when photographers see a boy of interest, they take a few pictures that might entice the pedophiles and pederasts they are attracting.  Pedophiles and pederasts [and I am sorry to talk about this] like children and teenagers, because they are usually bigger, older and stronger than their frightened victims.  Its more about their ego.  Also, in some cases, the aggressors are taller and therefore usually looking down at victims. 

That is why photographers will make boys remove their shirts so they are topless [this is one thing Jensen mentioned hating], and then take the picture from an angle where they are looming over the subject so that the subject appears shorter or maybe smaller.  Its the pedophile/pederast's POV.  The third picture is ridiculous because the photographer made Jensen scrunch down to look shorter.  I think the photographer might have been shorter than Jensen.  Jensen's pose appears like a invitation.  He probably got the inkling, by the end of the session, that something was off with the whole shoot.  That is why, to this day, the shoot upsets him.  But other than that, I don't know if anything else happened on that day. 

Do I think something drastic happened?  No.  I don't think Jensen was attacked by a predator.  The predators didn't want Jensen even though he was a teenager, very beautiful and alone in Los Angeles.  The reason why is if you really squint, Jensen is a star child.  His father is a veteran in the industry.  Alan Ackles is a somebody.  If they touch his kid, Alan might become a problem for them.  Because they didn't want a potentially difficult angry dad situation to deal with in the future, they decided to leave Jensen alone.  However, the shoot still messed Jensen up enough that he remembers it to this day, decades later.  He even argued with a heller over it, because she wanted him to sign on of the pictures during his autos and he was upset.  Why get upset?  Its just a picture, right?  Unless there is an ugly memory attached to it.

Maybe the penny dropped for him as to how ugly the situation could have gotten.  So that gif set of Misha forcing Jensen's face into his crotch, that the hellers are gushing over, is not hot or cute.  It is disgusting.  Only a complete pervert will be aroused by the coercion of the Cockles pairing and the beatings in the destiel pairing.  Misha is vile and so are his hellers.  They get turned on by the sickest things. 

[sweet-sammy-kisses]

This is for the hellers and not the nice Destiel shippers who enjoy their ship without attacking anyone.

The only ones who baited you were yourselves and those who wanted attention. You were the ones who took every small thing and made it a sign that Destiel was going to be canon wall colors, what shirt color Dean was wearing to him eating cake. I say this as a bisexual that you came off very biphopic. Let's not forget that anyone of the LGBT+ community that doesn't ship Destiel is not a real member or homophobic. Like you claim Jensen is when he said time after time Destiel doesn't exist.

You talk about loving all characters but that is a bold face lie. The only time you loved Sam is when you could make him a Destiel cheerleader otherwise you wanted him gone. When the BMoL was introduced hellers wanted Sam gone for half the season so Dean and Castiel would be the focus. You wanted Sam to be tortured for your ship. You hate Sam because he is one of the two main characters and no one will mean more to Dean than Sam and that burns you up.

Let's talk about the hate Hannah, Meg 2.0 and Amara got from the ohh so loving hellers. I love Megstiel and thought Hanstiel was cute but I couldn't go into either of those tags without seeing hate after hate towards the ships as well as the female characters. Oh when Hannah was in a male vessel it was okay to ship them but female Hannah was hated by hellers. Same goes for Amara.

Now I doubt that you will actually read this as you don't seem the type to actually read but you are completely bat crazy in believing that bibros don't like any characters but Sam and Dean. That would be hellers they don't like anyone but Castiel and Dean the rest are just props you can use to claim look I like other characters.

I love Ruby 1.0, Meg 2.0, Amara, Rowena, Crowley, Eileen before she was turned into nothing but a love interest, Pamela, original Death, Rufus. Missouri, Bobby, Jody, Donna, Hannah, Max and Alicia as well as many others.

Are there characters I don't like? Of course but I do the mature thing block and blacklist them and move on.

Now I might not be a fan of Misha, I am neutral about him but I would never treat him the way the hellers treat Jared and Jensen. The hellers have always treated Jared like he was mud on the bottom of their shoes from wanting him fired to celebrating his breakdown because it gave them another Jensen and Misha panel. But since SPN ended every week they have attacked him, from blaming their ship not becoming canon to spreading lies about why he wanted to do Walker to wanting it to be canceled.

SPN ended the way it started the story of two brothers that has always been the heart and soul of the show. Characters have come and gone playing roles in the brothers journey but it was still about Sam and Dean.

If what you believe is what you consider love I don't want any part of it.

You know what bothers me the most?

It’s not being baited for years, it’s not being treated like dirt and tossed aside, it’s that in the end HATE conquered LOVE…

Bibros won… They literally hated every character beside Sam and Dean… They hated their wives…

But we hellers?

We loved deancas but we Also loved Eileen, we loved Jody, we loved Charlie, we loved Claire, we loved Kaia, we loved Rowena, crowly, we loved Donna, Bobby, Ellen…. We loved Genevieve and Daneel, we loved every one…. But in the end? The haters won…

Hate conquered… And that’s a terrible message

[lol-jackles]

I dont remember if i have contacted you before, but i have been reading you for years. I felt the need to write to you tonight, in order to congratulate you about your correct insights into Supernatural, that were confirmed gloriously by the series finale!

I really, really loved the finale! After so many disappointments (Lost, Sopranos, GoT) i was bracing myself for something awful but i am so happy i was wrong! The finale book-ended perfectly the pilot and gave closure to both : Dean died the way he wanted - on the job - and got his brother at his side for 15 years, and Sam got his apple - pie life with a family of his own and even a dog!

The barn scene confirmed what you were saying all these years: the show was about Sam, Dean's confession about fearing Sam rejecting him when he went to find him in Stanford and his admission that "all has been for him" doesnt leave room for alternative explanations or twists that Hellers could exploit. The scene has an intimacy ("i love you so much, my baby brother") that i honestly didnt expect and it pleasantly surprised me.

On that vein, Heaven's meaning for the two brothers didnt involve Castiel and Dean waiting for him on the bridge, both wearing the same clothes as in the pilot, brought the story to full circle.

Finally, covid restrictions to filming meant very few guest stars/cameos which gave the finale an ascetic aesthetic and eventually this was more fitting to the whole premise.

I have to give it to the producers that they managed to cater to all fractions of fandom in some small way (destiel, wincest, bibros) and at the same time to remain true to the original idea of what Supernatural was.

Ah thank you @andrianne2904, I’m truly flattered and a bit bewildered in part because I started this blog for non-show reasons and partly to make fun certain subsection of the SPN fandom.  Never in my wildest magic 8-ball prediction did I I thought people actually wanted my opinions on Supernatural because they sure didn’t want it at the SPN IMDB forum, though not surprsing given they were mostly AA stans and Destiel fans.

“Carry On” finale really is great.  The more I think about it the higher my opinion.  The Sam and Dean scene in the barn left no room for ambiguity and confirmed what most of us already knew, Sam and Dean are soulmates and they will be reunited in heaven. I really like the beginning scene of Sam admiring the view from the bridge (maybe foreshadowing his future without Dean?) and the ending  scene of Sam admiring the view from the bridge with his brother whose arm is securely around him, as if to say Sam will never be alone again.

[meowmeowmessi]

I actually think SPN is a rare example of a show where the online fandom did have an impact on the show's content. The pandering towards destihellers, the meta episodes like Fan Fiction, characters like Becky and Charlie, to name a few things. All of which happens to be the stuff I don't like lol.

I think I'm one of the rare ones who actually liked Fan Fiction 😅😅 (Anyone else notice how they said they'd explore d*stiel in the second act of the play where all the non-canon and stupid stuff was that the goddess outright insulted and basically called garbage? And also how Cass wasn't in the shot where they all sang Carry On Wayward Son? Subtle, spn writers.) Though I don't like Becky and Charlie either ngl (Becky for how creepy she is toward Sam and honest to God deserving a restraining order, and Charlie bc Bad WritingTM made her an annoying Mary Sue). Anyway, back to the main point: I think spn's meta madness is actually all Kripke. It's not that the fandom forced its way into the show, it's more like Kripke is just insane and likes going all meta and breaking the fourth wall? And ngl, I think that's something VERY unique to spn, even now at a time when shows are constantly pushing the envelope. Like, I'm 99% sure that even with the crazy shows that we have now, like Black Mirror and shit, The French Mistake is very unique and something we'll never see again. What I'm saying is that the whole meta thing is very kripke-esque (I mean, dude even put spn references in The Boys, for crying out loud), and all the other showrunners and writers after him just kept up the tradition. Fan Fiction was basically a love letter to the fans saying, "Hey, we know y'all love our show and we appreciate it, and you can interpret it however you want, but at the end of the day it's OUR story (hence the bibro ending with the samulet aka the bros aka the heart of the show). Cool? Cool." Us sane people got that, which is why we didn't start harassing the actors and writers on SM demanding ~canon wincest~ despite the episode HEAVILY hinting at the ship, because we aren't crazy. Too bad the hellers are a few (or rather a dozen) fries short of a happy meal and the message went completely over their heads. So the fault is the hellers for being a bunch of wackos, and of course, M*sha Collins for being a queerbaiting hoe. These are just MY opinions though, so take it all with a grain of salt if you choose to lol 

[missjackil]

Miss Jacki’s top 30 SPN Episodes

#1 Who We Are 12x22

For me, this was as close to perfect as an episode can be!! Both Sam girls and Dean girls should have enjoyed this, and it was bibro Heaven!! Hellers probably still talk about it as the worst episode ever or something hehe.  For starters, we have the boys trapped with Toni Bevell in the bunker. Locked in, no electricity, water, and the air is being pumped out, so of course theres pending doom. After trying to reset the machinery with a spell that failed, the bros try bashing down a wall. This was an awesome scene!! Whats not to love about Sam and Dean in single layers, being all strong and macho??  Exhausted, they sit together, dirty, sweaty, and tired. What an absolute beautiful sight!! When the boys sit together talking, you always have my full attention. Theyre feeling a little hopeless. This really could be the end. Sam opens up, maybe he feels more than a little guilty that things got to this point. Of course, its not his fault really, he didnt know the BMOL were brain washing mom, or had plans to exterminate the American Hunters, he just wanted to help make the world a better place. Sam gives a confession, that once he was in, he just followed, because it was easier than leading. Dean nods in agreement. They both probably liked just being told where to go and what to kill much more than telling others what to do.  So now the boys think theyve lost, and its not the “blaze of glory” theyve always imagined... until.... THE GRENADE LAUNCHER!!!  Toni thinks the boys are lunatics, and well... they are :D Big Beautiful and Dumb!!  They couldnt care less that the whole building might fall on their heads, If they go out, theyre going out with a bang, and on their own terms!! The exchange of looks Sam and Dean gave each other was nothing less than priceless. The grenade explodes, Sam instantly goes looking for Dean. Theres a big hole in the wall,, and no Dean, so he must have gotten out!! But oh shit, the hole collapses!! Sam goes into instant panic mode!! DEAN??? DEAN!!???? He can barely see, the air is thin, and he collapses on all 4s as he sucks all the oxygen thats left by hyperventilating. Just then the door opens and Dean walks in with a bloody busted leg and Sams face lights up. Dean greets him with “Hey Lunatic”” and all order in Sam’s life is restored. We fast forward to Jody’s house where Mary is tied up for attacking Jody. Sam calls other hunters to come help them take out the Brits. Atypical of Sam, he has a pretty long speech, but, he finally gets a good tag line. For years, all we had were things like “I lost my shoe” or “Im a whole new level of freak” but now we have “I want you to follow me” it hits me in the feels when I hear him say this. He’s come so far and grown so much in the last 12 yrs, that he can say these words in confidence. Dean was so proud! This lead to one of my favorite brohugs, that tied in a little bit with my 2nd fav episode, Swan Song (which Ill talk about tomorrow) In Swan Song, Dean was letting Sam go to do his quest on his own. Sam told him “If I do this, and triple lindy into that cage, you know Im not coming back” and Dean says “I know” but this time, Dean is sending Sam off on his quest and hugs him, and tells him “You come back” and Sam says “Promise” (ugggh my heart) seal that with a Winchester “I love you” which was “Bitch” “Jerk” and just the pause and the sweet grin on Sams face when Dean said it, you knew he knew Dean just told him he loves him <3 So Sam goes off.... meanwhile, Dean is now trying to talk to mom while in her head. My heart was flipping seeing chubby happy baby Sam, cooing and playing with his blanket. When Dean goes over to see him, he just seemed so happy to show big grown up Dean his blanket!! The only thing that would have made me feelier, is if Dean picked baby Sam up and cuddled him, and maybe kissed his head (but then I woulda just died and couldnt write this so...)

Sams battle with the brits, was a little lack luster, but its ok because Dean’s scene was awesome. He’s laying it out to Mom, this is whats what.... and instead of making it all about him, he made it about Sam. Basically “you left me with a responsibility I couldnt handle and look what it did to Sam???” I was full on sobbing when he told Mom that Sam was posessed by Lucifer, Tortured in Hell and lost his soul. Some of you got angry that Sam wasnt the one to tell her, but hello... this is Sam we’re talking about. Its never his thing to lay his load on someone else. Sometimes, maybe a little with Dean, but he just wouldnt give all this to his mother. But Dean would for him. She needs to know and Sam wont tell her, so Dean will. He tells Mary he hates her... he says it more than once. I feel it, it comes from his gut. Not just a knee jjerk reaction to anger. He IS feeling this. And Dean Winchester has the most open, and honest moment hes had in a long time, maybe in the whole series “I hate you.... and I love you. I cant.. I cant help it... youre my mom” and without a word of lie, Im crying as I write this. I may be 100% in love with Sam, but Dean is my buddy. Hes messed up and too violent sometimes, but he is so full of love it hurts me, and him too aparently. I know he and Sam have felt exactly this for each other a number of times. It reminds me of what Jared said about Sam and Dean at SDCC2017 “Sam and Dean love each other as much as its possible for two people to love each other... even when sometimes they hate each other a little”:True love is huge and confusing and uncontrolable, and everyone does stupid stuff when they love big. If youre one of those people waiting for and expecting a love that wont ever hurt like hell, you wont ever really experience love.  *ehem* where was I? Oh yes.... ok so, Where Sam and Dean both are at this point, is kind of a role reversal, Sam is doing the fighting and Dean is doing the curing. And this is really cool IMO. And I dont know if youve noticed, but they both had to stop being “them” for a second, and be the other instead. Dean has to get mom out of her head, Sam has to finish off the Brits in the US. if Sam were standing were Dean is right now, what would he do? He would forgive mom, and this is what Dean needs to do. If Dean were standing where Sam is, what would he do? He would trust himself, Sam and his friends, and tell the Brits to fuck off... and this is what Sam did. Sam has issues with second guessing and not trusting his own instincts... but this time he becomes Dean and just says “pass” shoots the computer and Jody kills Hess. (Sam shoulda but oh well) Back at the Bunker, Toni is dead YAAAY and now the fight with Ketch, and mom wakes up and kills him (ish) big win for the Winchesters!! But then comes maybe my favorite moment ever. Dean and Mom are talking, and Dean tells her theyre gonna start over and do it right. Mom is worried, “What about Sam? Im scared.... what if he cant forgive me” Sam walks in, the man  that just took out the big bad BMOL is so soft, and so sad “Mom... you dont have to be scared of me”  OMG FUCKING KILL ME!!! Dont be scared of this huge hulk of a man that kills bad guys and monsters every day and scares the hell out of demons... dont be scared Mom because he loves you. Your deal made his life a living hell, but he forgave you a long time ago. You didnt know what would happen, and hes done the same thing himself. He knows as well as anyone what stupid things we might do for love.  Mom hugs Sam and Sam just looks like the biggest teddybear ever. And if thats not enough, Dean comes in “Im glad youre back man” and hugs him too. Sams face while being wrapped in all this love. All for him!! The whole damn series could have ended there and Id be happy!!  This is why Who We Are is my favorite episode ever!!