#he wasn't a figure like fray diego

[fideidefenswhore]

Why did you vote for the third one in Katherynparr's poll?

To me, it just seems more likely than not? I'm rereading material on the Anne of Cleves marriage rn and funnily enough am reminded of that, like... to leave the marriage unconsummated was to mean it was very easy to annull, would be to leave the state of it contested and vulnerable. Most CoA partisans insist (and I agree, although I think this became even stronger and reified with her accession in 1509, I think it had always existed to some degree) that Catherine had it absolutely drilled into her that for her to become Queen of England was divinely ordained, her sacred duty, etc. That does not square with leaving the matter insecure. Those that insist on #1 tend to really ignore the timeline here... it's not like they married in November and he fell ill and dropped dead the very next week.

So, to follow that thread...would she have lived in that uncertainty and insecurity for months? I find that unlikely. She couldn't have seen the future, so how was she to know that it could ever become such a contentious issue, the did they/did they not?

Frankly, Catherine in these circumstances was the one that was more (relatively) vulnerable. Arthur was always going to become King of England, come hell or high water. They both would have felt pressure, but Catherine would have felt more; to present grandchildren to her in-laws would have guaranteed the security of her future and been met with the gratitude of her own parents for securing the alliance with finality.

I won't go into all the evidence generally used for Vote #1, but I'm familiar with all the usual points made for it, and I'll address some of them in order.

Catherine's testimony that they only spent 'seven nights' in bed together. There's testimony from members of Arthur's staff that contradicts this (saying the number of nights was much higher) and even if it was true (it's a very specific number to remember, I'll say that, six more than the night of their wedding, which she couldn't dispute because chroniclers recorded it), seven nights is plenty to figure it out, if the motivation was there (and see above, I believe it was)

The impression this was supposed to leave, I believe, was that Arthur and Catherine didn't enjoy intimacy together, and didn't really care for each other. Frankly, this has some support (Catherine's rather demurely ambiguous response to Henry VII's question of the matter of whether or not they should reside together was whatever you think best, Arthur spoke of how pleasing she was to him, but that was boilerplate political speech), even speaking broadly (arranged marriages could be awkward, the only language they shared was stilted Latin). There's also the matter of how Arthur left Catherine absolutely nothing in his will, only leaving things to his sister, Margaret.

However, that doesn't preclude that any attempt of consummation was never made...this was often the case, and those in politically arranged royal marriages (Henry VIII being an anomaly) were supposed to, yk...get over it.

The strongest contender is her swearing otherwise to Campeggio. There was another confessor of Catherine's, though, who believed otherwise in 1502, and whom Catherine refused to ever see or write to again (even when the Pope reccomended him-- Catherine was not always such a staunch, to use a retrospective term, 'Papist' as some have supposed); in the context of Catherine having not yet had any surviving son by her marriage to Henry.

Additionally, while she spoke of many things on her deathbed (feeling some blame for the 'increase of heresy' in Engand, namely), and did take confession, her marriage to Arthur and its alleged unconsummation was not among either. Even Chapuys, her staunchest supporter, was rather distressed and seemingly puzzled by this (he had been "assured" that it was her intention to do so)

We're never going to know definitively, of course (those that say Pope Clement made a final declaration that her alleged virginity of 1509 was 'proven' are incorrect-- he did, on the last, defend the sanctity of her marriage, but on the grounds that Henry had for too long acted on the dispensation given for it, and "deprived himself of the right to protest against it"....a conclusion he surely could have given by 1530 at the latest, if 1527 was so clearly 'too late' to protest, but I digress... no mention made of the state of her marriage to Arthur); but regardless of whatever the truth was, I think something that's often said of Henry applies equally to Catherine (and, honestly, most people):

They believed what they wanted/needed to believe.

[blackdiamondwrites127]

The Royal House of Trastámara (Redux)

So since the Trastámara family has become even more complete with the addition of Juan, I figured I'd make redo of this post! So here are the daughters and son of the Royal House of Trastámara.

Link to original post

Isabella of Aragon, Queen of Portugal

The eldest child of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castille, Isabella was named after her mother and became the heir presumptive to the Crown of Castille after her mother took the throne from her uncle Henry IV of Castille. She was betrothed and married to Prince Afonso, heir and only son of John II of Portugal. Her marriage with the prince was a happy one but unfortunately, Afonso died due to a riding accident and Isabella vowed never to marry again. Until six years later, after the death of John II of Portugal, his brother, Manuel I of Portugal, usurped the throne and asked for Isabella's hand in marriage. Her parents offered Maria's hand instead out of respect to Isabella's wishes to never marry again but Manuel refused. Eventually, she married him and became queen consort of Portugal. She later gave birth to her only son, Miguel de Paz, Prince of Portugal, and due to her poor health and constant travelling during the later stages of her pregnancy, she died within an hour of her son's birth.

In her second life, Isabella owns and works in her own music shop located just below her flat. She sometimes fills in for Maria on the drums whenever she's sick and just generally enjoys the simple things in her second life. She's grown to be very passive due in this life and can be quite sarcastic at times which may come off as rude but she means well. However, bad mouth her younger sister she'll go after you.

Isabella Trastámara belongs to @lexartsstuff.

John, Prince of Asturias

was the only son of Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon who survived to adulthood. John was born in Seville in 1478 to the sovereigns of Castile, Isabella I and Ferdinand II. John's birth helped consolidate Isabella's position as sovereign as she had given birth to a legitimate male heir. At the time of his birth, he had one elder sister Isabella; his younger sisters were Joanna, Maria, and Catherine. During his early years, Isabella and Ferdinand came to plan a double alliance with Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor, for the marriage of his children, Archduke Philip the Handsome and Archduchess Margaret of Austria. On 20 January 1495 in Antwerp, a preliminary alliance, which included a wedding of Prince John with Maximilian's daughter was agreed. Similarly, Maximilian's son Philip and John's sister Joanna were to be married. Joanna left Spain to marry Philip the Handsome in late 1496. Philip's sister, Margaret of Austria, aged 18, married John on April 3 the following year in Burgos Cathedral. It was a good marriage and John was devoted to Margaret. On 4 October 1497, a messenger came to John's parents and informed them that their son lay dangerously ill in Salamanca. He and his wife Margaret had arrived a week earlier, on the way to the wedding of his older sister in Portugal. Ferdinand was with his son as John died in the arms of his former tutor Fray Diego Deza. Two months later, on December 8, the Princess of Asturias gave birth to their only child, a stillborn girl.

When he was reincarnated, he found that he was blind in one eye but that didn’t stop him from having the time of his life. He’s very fun loving, happy, energetic and a bit oblivious at times. He’s married to Margaret of Austria, who he calls Maggie. He works as a costume designer for SIX the musical, mainly so he can see his baby sister more. He now goes by Juan rather than John as a ay to stay in touch with his spanish roots.

Juan Trastámara belongs to @weirdbutdecentart100.

Joanna of Castille, Queen of Castille and Aragon

The second eldest daughter of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castille. Known historically as 'Joanna the Mad' or 'Juana la Loca' in spanish, she was Queen of Castille and Queen of Aragon. Modern Spain evolved from the union of these two kingdoms. Joanna was married by arrangement to Philip the Handsome, Archduke of Austria of the House of Habsburg. Following the deaths of her brother, John, Prince of Asturia, her elder sister Isabella, and her nephew Miguel, Joanna became the heir presumtive to the crowns of Castile and Aragon. When her mother died, Joanna became Queen of Castile. Her father proclaimed himself Governor and Administrator of Castile. Despite being the ruling Queen of Castile, Joanna had little effect on national policy during her reign as she was declared insane and imprisoned in the Royal Convent of Santa Clars in Tordesillas under the orders of her father, who ruled as regent until his death, when she inherited his kingdom as well. When her son Charles I ruled as king, she was nominally co-monarch but remained imprisoned until her death.

In her second life, Joanna or Juana as she preferred to be called, came back a troubled teen. In her misfortune, she was taken in by a very religious and abusive family. The father, named Fernando, would often lock her up in a dark room whenever she had mental breakdowns which are usually bouts of painful laughter. She finally escaped the house and was homeless for years until she found her youngest sister, Catalina. Catalina helped her by housing her until she got back on her feet and got the help she needed for her mental wellbeing.

Juana 'la loca' Trastámara belongs to @ellielovesdrawing.

Maria of Aragon, Queen of Portugal

The third eldest daughter of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castille. After the untimely death of her older sister, she married her husband Manuel I of Portugal and replaced her as queen of Portugal. As a queen, she wasn't that involved in politics at all and her focus consists mainly of religious teachings, sewing and child rearing. Although, she is sometimes credited for convincing her husband into acts of 'mercy' whenever he flew into a fit of rage. During her marriage and reign as queen, she gave birth to ten children. Eight of whom reached to adulthood. She was constantly pregnant most of her adult life. Only having a few months in between pregnancies and giving birth to her tenth child caused her untimely demise.

Reincarnated into the modern world, Maria woke as a young woman in her early twenties. She's a laid back woman and loves the experience of a good party or a night at a club. She's not as religious as she was in her past life. Not atheistic per se. She'll go to church if she feels like it and even wears a rosary bracelet as some sort of connection to her religion was raised and taught in. She has a friend with benefits that she has fun with weekly. She is 100% childfree in her second life because ten pregnancies in her past life was way more than enough for her. Despite being childfree, she still adores children so she had applied for uni and took up an education course. Graduating after four years and landing her first teaching job at a private academy where Hal and his siblings and cousins go to. That was where she reunited with Catalina during a PTA meeting and the two sisters have never been happier to meet again in their second lives. They then set up a meeting where she reunites with their older sisters, Isabella and Juana.

Maria Trastámara belongs to yours truly.

Catherine of Aragon, Queen of England

The youngest daughter of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castille. Catherine was three years old when she was betrothed to Arthur, Prince of Wales, heir apparent to the English throne. They married but Arthur died five months later. She was the first known female ambassador in European history. Catherine subsequently married Arthur's younger brother, Henry VIII. For six months, she served as regent of England while Henry VIII was in France. In 1525, Henry VIII was infatuated with Anne Boleyn and dissatisfied that his marriage to her had produced no surviving sons, leaving their daughter, the future Mary I of England, as heir presumptive at a time when there was no established precedent for a woman on the throne. He sought to have their marriage annulled, setting in motion a chain of events that led to England's schism with the Catholic Church. When Pope Clement VII refused to annul the marriage, Henry defied him by assuming supremacy over religious matters. Their marriage was consequently declared invalid and Henry married Anne on the judgement of clergy in England, without reference to the pope. Catherine refused to accept Henry as supreme head of the Church in England and considered herself the king's rightful wife and queen, attracting much popular sympathy. Despite this, she was acknowledged only as dowager princess of Wales by Henry. After being banished from court by Henry, she lived out the remainder of her life at Kimbolton Castle, and died of cancer.

In her second life, Catherine or Catalina as she prefers to be called to avoid confusion with the other C/Katherines, found herself in a house with her ex husband's five other wives. Tensions were high on the first few months, especially between her and Anne Boleyn but the six soon got things settled and managed to create a family dynamic within their shared home. They created a musical about their stories and garnered quite the success. She mostly acts as the head matriarch of the house. Making sure that everyone was alright and knew not to cause any trouble that might get them hurt. The addition of their children being reincarnated made her even more attentive, caring and loving to her new found family.