#he pretends to reject him because he knows elio will come back for more

[lakemichigans]

why did no one tell me call me by your name is a horror movie

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Hi love! with so much speculation about Jon Snow taking the Iron Throne, what are the steps he would need to take in order to be King? Is there any scenario where it would be possible without Daenery's support? Thanks!

anon asked:

What are your thoughts on people claiming Jon has a better claim to the iron throne than Dany? If this was a war of succession, then he would… but it’s a war of conquest. Whoever wins gets the crown, not whoever deserves it more.

Answering both of you at once since they’re variations of the same question. First of all, Jon only has a better claim to the throne than Dany if he is legitimate,* if Rhaegar and Lyanna were married and if it was a legitimate marriage. Despite what the show did, neither of those two things may be true in the books. And I presume both of you know better than to ask me about the show.

*This is not counting the facts of Aerys’s disinheritance of Rhaegar’s children in favor of Viserys (who later claimed Dany as his heir), or the whole issue of the precedent against women having any claim to the throne, which Elio says may not apply anyway. Succession is complicated.

Nevertheless, whether Jon has a better claim to the throne or not… well… second of all, Jon has to want the Iron Throne, has to want to rule Westeros, and has to want to fight for it. I genuinely can’t think of any reason the Jon we know would want any of that. (The Jon that comes back from the dead may not exactly be the Jon we know, though.) I have a very hard time thinking of Jon, raised as a Stark (bastard), believing Ned was his father, desperately wanting to be thought of as a true Stark, to deny that part of himself so much that he rejects it entirely in favor of fighting to be a Targaryen instead. Honestly, the only reason I could see him (the Jon I know at least) doing that would be altruistically: to step out of the way of his Stark siblings/cousins’ right to Winterfell, or because he’s acclaimed (the people really want him to be king and he can’t deny them), or because he genuinely thinks he’s the only/best one left to lead Westeros’s rebuilding after the apocalypse. (But then I don’t always expect him to survive the apocalypse; and if he does I figure he’ll be a co-ruler anyway.)

So. If Jon did want to take the Iron Throne as sole ruler (or king with a mere queen consort rather than co-regent), and if he were looking to be acclaimed by those invested in the continuity of the Targaryen dynasty (as opposed to just right of conquest, by which anyone can grab anything really if they beat up everybody else trying for it), what would he need to do?

He would need to prove his legitimacy. Documents (of marriage, of annulment if applicable), witnesses. (Visions of the past are probably not legally admissible.)

He would need support, those lords who would be acclaiming him. Probably a good majority of the Great Lords of Westeros. (The outcomes of the Great Councils were far more than a supermajority, apparently.) Robert was acclaimed by 3 Great Lords (Stark, Arryn, Tully; 4 if you count himself) as well as most of their bannermen at the Trident, and after the Trident by another (Greyjoy) and after the Sack by another (Lannister), and then 2 more (Tyrell, Martell) eventually submitted to him. Jon would need something similar, as would anyone trying to take the throne. Bend the knee, bitches.

In order to get this support, force of arms is really helpful to encourage the lords to kneel with their decisions. A dragon or three, say, a couple of armies.

Would Dany’s support be important? Well, her disagreement could really fuck things up, so heck yeah she’s important. (A scenario where she would not be important is if she’s died or for some reason never comes to Westeros.**) Consider Young Griff/Aegon, and the question of whether he’s legitimate or a pretender – he was supposed to go to Dany to tell her who he was and ask her to marry him, since she was a well-known true and legitimate Targaryen, and her support and approval of his status would win over those doubting lords of Westeros. And her dragons, too. (Note Tyrion convinced Aegon that he could conquer first and win Dany later with his conquering as a bride-gift, but we’ll have to see how that works out.) If Dany is giving a dragon to Jon, as well as an army or two, that is also extremely helpful support.

After all this, Jon would need to be anointed by the High Septon to really get all the people on his side. Sure, he could crown himself (as Aegon the Conqueror initially did), but the Faith of the Seven is still the most popular religion in Westeros and Aegon counted his rule from the day the High Septon crowned and anointed him in Oldtown. Difficulties: Jon worships the Old Gods only; Jon may be resurrected by R’hllor, a foreign god the Faith considers demonic (Jon coming back from the dead at all is kinda creepy lbr); and of course the above questions of legitimacy etc. Another major difficulty: between KL possibly blowing up and Oldtown also likely coming under sorcerous fire, will there even be a High Septon after the apocalypse? Well, if needs be, anointing can wait.

**Another potential scenario where Dany’s support is not important would be a wild AU where Ned Stark doesn’t promise Lyanna to keep Jon safe and secret and unknowing of his heritage, and instead ambitiously makes himself a kingmaker. This would require Ned to be a completely different person as well as his relationship with Robert to be completely different (never any friendship to begin with? a break caused by the Sack that is never healed?), as well as a completely different history that’s not ASOIAF, but presumably neither Dany or Viserys (young, exiled, without friends) would be that necessary for Ned to make Jon a king should he so wish.

I think that covers most of the issues and required steps. Any further questions, just let me know.