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fumifooms · 6 months ago

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You’re the resident chilchuck expert, so I was wondering about it there’s any canon evidence that he did smoke or drink alcohol when the kids were younger. I always thought it was something he picked up due to the strain of long jobs, when the kids were already older, but you seem to think differently and I was wondering if there was anything in canon that made you think that way!

Now that you mention it I guess it’s true there’s no evidence he did. Smoking we literally only know he does at all because of one post-canon panel where he has a pipe, so no, maybe this stick-looking thing in the panel below too though, I’m not familiar with medieval blunts eh. We’ve only gotten one panel of him and his daughters interacting when he was younger so that’s not too insightful on that end, and every time we see him young and freckled it’s in a job context so again not really where we’d expect him to be drinking. The earliest proof (/heavy implication since we don’t see inside his cup I guess) is 3 years before canon when Laios hired him, where he’s at a bar, classily placed in front of all the bottles ✨

Yes alcohol is almost certainly a way through which he copes especially with stress, so if we go with the theory he started around when work got stressful, well… Chilchuck started working as a dungeon diver ~10 years ago so when he was ~19, making Mei, Fler and Puck ~6 and ~4 respectively, so from that draw the ‘stressful enough to start drinking’ line wherever. We don’t know what he did before that with any certainty, and it could be he did odd jobs, lived off mostly mutual aid and community work, or just focused on only raising the girls. Half-foots tend to be poor and I see a lot of that in Chilchuck specifically so I don’t think he could have afforded to not have some paying work though.

Alright, so then why do I think he did drink when the girls were younger?

I give a more complete rundown of the info we do have on his alcoholism & his family with panels and references + all the speculation I make from it here. But the most targeted and objective answer I can give is:

Of course there’s just very very little we know of Chilchuck’s life with his family, and I think that’s by design too. I think the details being up in the air is to allow more nuance of the topic, like, will trying to reconcile go well, is their relationship salvageable? We don’t know, because we don’t know. So the message of giving hope a chance even if it’s a long shot, that things could truly go either way, is more relevant, impactful and meta in that way. How long was he usually away for work travels into dungeons here and there? How did he act with them? All we can really do is "it’s likely that", it’s a game of which way we think it’s more implied. There’s no right and wrong answer, it’s all Marcille-like larping the events out.

My main reason for thinking he did is that his father died from overdrinking and Chilchuck is very aware of that. He mentions his death casually in the extra about their stance in alcohol and in his Adventurer’s Bible profile, etc. He acts towards the alcohol presumably the same way his father did: with abandon, uncaring for the health effects, probably happily too considering Chil says "dying doing something you love is a good way to go". Very nonchalant. So you see what I’m saying here right, wether he started early or late, his view of alcoholism is very influenced by what he saw of his father growing up, it’s something he’s always been aware of and saw in a mostly positive light, something that was inherited you could say. It’s something that was normalized to him from a young age. Regardless or where it goes from there I do think this part is pretty inarguable. If he views it positively and we know that in the present alcohol is his favorite food that he loveees, why would he have held out on it? Personally that all makes me think he started drinking very young, especially since I don’t think they limited alcohol to age as much as modern standards (and I mean, teen drinking is obviously still a thing). And here you could argue, maybe his father only started being more alcoholic later when Chilchuck moved out, or something! And to that there’s nothing I can say except I think that’s a strained theory, and that Chil might even have largely cut contact with his family after moving out (since he and siblings are listed as almost strangers and he doesn’t seem to have much emotional attachment to his parents, but also we know he rents out his place to "a relative"), but it’s true we have no evidence. "I’ve picked up the same unhealthy substance abuse as my father haha! No big deal right haha" repeated several times to me just reeks of intergenerational trauma, & the alcoholism gene as they call it. Like effortless sliding into drinking as if it’s second nature, it’s natural after all, it’s normal after all, it just makes sense, it makes you feel good and that’s what matters.

BUT from my interpretation then we have a whole other layer: Alcohol is of course not all bad always. I think he’s always liked alcohol and drank it on occasion and it brought him joy etc etc, but I think here the implication in the question is, how much effect did his drinking have on the family relations and how early? And that isn’t so much about when him drinking started but when the alcoholism started. Addiction is defined by a habitual need, that has negative effects from filling that need (physical, psychological, social, etc) and negative effects from withdrawal. If Chilchuck drinks to cope and he can’t not cope without it, that’s addiction, if it affects his relationships, if it’s a need he has, it’s addiction. Addiction can be very insidious or look very casual, and how much people around the person are affected by it is case by case. Cheerful drunks can be sooo annoying and uncomfortable though let me tell you. Drunks are drunks. And this sounds harsh, but even if people around them don’t mind drunks it’ll still have some effects here and there, living with one can be such a challenge, ily drunks good luck with everything much like Chilchuck you deserve good things 🫡　

Ok so with the dad thing and the "ok well maybe he’s always drunk casually but it grew worse with time around when he started working as a dungeon diver" precision made, the other bit of info we have that can inform this is that Chilchuck is on a harsh diet and that alcohol is a hunger suppressant. We know Chilchuck "used to be fine not eating for two days", that literally on screen to quench his hunger so it doesn’t keep him awake he goes to drink water, drinking is his instinct to hunger. Again alcohol is a hunger suppressant and if you want info on that the internet has a lot of research and anecdotes about it. He diets to be light enough to not trigger traps, so it’s something he’d have started after dungeon diving most likely. Between the stress and the diet, yes it’s extremely likely he started going harder on alcohol after he started working in dungeons. There’s arguments on wether two days without eating is less bad for half-foots than humans, but apart from smaller portions there’s nothing that indicates half-foots should get less than 3 meals a day. They need less food but that’s because their bodies are smaller: the need is proportional to the body, not smaller than others’ races, the % of need is similar even if the kg amount of food isn’t. There’s also a popular headcanon with support basis that half-foots run hot and have a faster heartrate and whatnot, and that points towards a faster metabolism rather than a slower one: a bigger need for eating rather than a smaller one. He has the same bmi, 18, as Mickbell, but perhaps because Chil is much taller he’s less intensely visibly underweight with ribs showing than Mick during the bath extra, it’s most apparent when he becomes tallman.

Alcohol is something so important and omnipresent in his character that I have trouble believing it’s something that was part of only a small fraction of his life. It’s his immediate go-to, his no-brainer solution to a good time, I’ve sort of always assumed especially after looking at his family that it’s something he discovered decently young. Like he just acts like someone who’s always had alcohol to fall back on and started young idk. Alcohol is one of his 5 keywords. Alcoholism is very ingrained into his world view and life, his "it doesn’t matter" stance his ‘work hard play hard’ mentality his idea that the world is harsh so you get relief where you can, so it just makes sense to me that it’s always been in his life, if not actively then at least looming.

So yes, in summary, my take: Alcohol was always something he wholly enjoyed to an unwise level, but it could have been considered casual until he started working into dungeons and his need for it on a regular basis intensified. Alcohol has always had positive association to him as far as we see, so when it started being a problem he didn’t see it as such. To quote him, "I drink anytime I get the opportunity to". Why always? Approval of father’s alcoholism. Why alcoholism at all? Diet + stress & coping mechanism & emotional stunting + relationship issues, and she decided she had enough after they went out for drinks.

Conclusion

Chilchuck having drunk from a young age makes sense to me and it’s the strongest narrative angle I see on the table, but that’s objectively a me opinion, yes! There’s no evidence, moreso there’s canon basis and supporting info, but it’s all very left up to interpretation. I’ve made my own interpretations of things from the scraps we see, like everyone else making Chilwife and daughters content. Wether you have a stance on the topic or prefer to leave it vague in your takes, it’ll be a matter of what you think makes most sense, or what you’d rather believe I suppose (which is literally fine)

There’s a lot of subjectivity in even just setting up causal links like you probably noticed during this and I was careful with my word choices, because we’re just extrapolating from what we see and unless Kui states it explicitly from a reliable mouth all we can do is have informed opinions on most things. This particular interpretation is influenced by other details I’ve come to form about my interpretation of Chilchuck too, the more psychological and emotional sides of him and the timeline and how his marriage even happened, unplanned pregnancy imo. Like I hope you see what I mean, this wasn’t supposed to be a speculation post just a quick simple answer but there’s sort of just no other and concise but complete way with the subjectivity nuance to put "maybe it could be yes because of this but maybe it could be no because of this" haha

Edit: Wait the phrasing on this… Interesting. "In recent years"— This does imply that if not just his alcohol consumption increasing then the diversity and quality of it did, so either he indeed did start drinking more (not necessarily meaning he didn’t drink before) assumedly because of his wife leaving, or he started drinking other/more different kinds of alcohol maybe due to the union he formed + his experience gave him greater salary than he had previously (and no wife and family to provide money for), a mix of both perhaps.

#Also he’s a lot like my own dad so to me with how he is it’s just an immediate “oh yeah he has always drunk duh of course”#So i can admit to bias. Or to specialized knowledge and authority on analysis idk in which way that tips the balance in my favor or not lol #Dungeon meshi #chilchuck tims #meta #alcoholism #This post was meant to be short :|#-slaps chilchuck’s family- this baby can fit in so much projection #I have like 3 chil alcoholism & chil family fic wips rn weeeeee #I’m the kind of alcoholic’s kid who grew up to never touch alcohol btw so like. Ik Chil could not have drunk young i just think he did #Can we appreciate the alcohol opinion & resistance chart actually. So often in media it’s either “alcohol’s a source of fun yippee” and #“alcohol is evil”. Thank you Dunmeshi for diversity of opinion thank you for nuance i rarely feel so seen #Izutsumi deserves to tell Chilchuck he stinks #AND BY THE WAY I hope you don’t feel talked down on anon. Ik you seem to have your own interpretation already & that’s good #sometimes i was adressing like. The General Public TM more than you which is why I spent time on some things like ‘think what you want’ etc #Okok i hope that covers it. Help where does the time go #It’s the sort of thing that makes Kui’s masterful storytelling by implying things here and there until it forms a big picture frustrating #for meta. Like! You can’t prove Chilchuck has been poor/grew up in an empoverished family/environment. There’s no evidence #but also you cannot tell me with a straight face that he isn’t and hasn’t like omg. But then it takes 30 pages to explain how he’s coded #Stop showing and not telling Kui smh /j #Ask #I think a lot about the trolls comic and man he was already so tense and grumpy and yelling. I do think that guy was stress relief drinking

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kunikiiida-kuuun · 2 years ago

Text

BSD Anime vs. Manga

S4 Episode 7 & Chapters 59-61

This is mostly going to be a compilation of the ADA moments, focused on Kunikida in particular, since Bones seems to freely pluck out parts from his characterization that takes away a lot from his personal arc. They have done it before, but in this arc, where each detail sensitive to his entire arc, I find it is quite a shame they were excluded.

Here are some moments that didn't make it to the anime, or simply didn't translate well into the episode because of a number of reasons.

A short disclaimer: I've never written any kind of analysis posts or even theories so I'd say this is more of my personal thoughts rather than a very objective comparison, since I hold Kunikida and the ADA very close to my heart. Buckle up for a really long post because oh boy, I have a lot of thoughts.

1. First signs of despair

(BSD Chapter 59)

Quite contrary to how Kunikida is perceived as emotionless, among all the characters in the room, we get a close up into his mind and thoughts first. They have been just declared as national criminals, and Ranpo, the most vital pillar of their agency was just shot and presumably out of commission. The all-knowing Ranpo who has gotten them out of trouble numerous times has been cut off. They sit there in shock as the realisation sinks in. They have no way out. Kunikida looks at his notebook, pondering out loud, "Is this where...my ideals come to an end?"

2. Kunikida retaliates back

(BSD Chapter 59)

This is one of the sides of Kunikida we may rarely get to see. While he is a character with a strong moral compass compared to the other BSD characters, there are moments when he prioritizes to protect himself and would go to any lengths to to prevent harm to his comrades, sometimes at the cost of his own well being. He wouldn't kill anyone, but should the circumstances call for it, he wouldn't hesitate to remove that obstacle. This is similar to how he shoots a little kid who was firing at him and Atsushi in the cannibalism arc. However the circumstances are entirely different in both scenarios. At that time, his inner conflict was more evident, since the children had been lied to, and instructed to shoot and didn't know any better. He had to protect himself and Atsushi. Over here, he is more or less wrongly being accused, which would explain his actions.

Before this, there's also a gentle look that passes over his eyes, as he reminisces about working along with them, and the fact that they see him as an enemy now.

I do however, appreciate that in the anime, his voice is softer, and not rude or mean to the soldiers they just defeated.

3. Remorse

(BSD Chapter 60)

Just as they are able to escape and catch their breaths, Kunikida is immediately filled with remorse for his actions. There is the special emphasis on the "light in the eyes" that Kunikida refers to, something which is very important to a character in Harukawa sensei's art style. He struck down a person, who was someone just like him, someone who was simply holding up his own ideals for the "good" of the nation, something Kunikida himself resonates with. He questions the justness of his own actions, and is in an inner dilemma about everything he stands for. Despite his "tough" exterior, Kunikida is inherently a person who is deeply vulnerable. He puts up his walls, but these walls even seem to break too easily, caused by his own self doubt.

This internal conflict is completely missing in the anime, and while it may seem inconsequential to the overall plot, it takes away a lot of impact that comes ahead. There is a lack of a dramatic pause that this scene gives, as the horror sinks in not just for us, but our characters as well.

4. Ray of hope

(BSD Chapter 60)

Before everyone, especially Kunikida sinks into complete despair, Kenji speaks up, starting on a completely unrelated and seemingly pointless note. He offers everyone some rice balls, surprising everyone.

(BSD Chapter 60)

Kenji is just such a precious boy. Kenji's logic is eating = happiness so by offering the rice balls, he's literally saying "please don't feel dejected!! I want you all to stay healthy and be happy!!"

Kunikida tries to reason, initially feeling that Kenji was making light of the situation. But Kenji is clearly having none of it and stops him immediately. We unfortunately missed this absolutely hilarious scene of Kenji shutting up Kunikida by shoving a rice ball into his mouth LMAO.

In hindsight, as I rewatch the anime, Kenji's speech is a nice optimistic boost in very Kenji fashion, but it comes across as a touch too happy go lucky in the anime and you can't deny how much more impactful it is when instead of just a random speech, he's purposefully uplifting everyone's spirits.

He isn't just being optimistic and is aware of the grim situation. He understands that he would need to use his ability for the obstacles they may face ahead and forgoes eating the rice balls (as Kenji cannot use his skill if his stomach is full). That's when even Kunikida realises that he is being serious. He understands how everyone feels, and reassures them, essentially saying that the agency will get through, rebuild, and continue on their path no matter how many difficulties come their way.

I have to say, this moment here is even more touching with his backstory that was recently revealed a few chapters ago. Kenji actually comes across as very mature for his age with his outlook on life and his kind and humble nature.

There is an immediate change in Kunikida's demeanor after this. He acknowledges Kenji's words and bites into the rice ball, accepting his 'unique' way of encouraging them with gratitude. And hereforth emerges the leader within Kunikida. I'm working on another post related to Kunikida and his role as the future ADA leader, but Kunikida is truly a people's leader. He spurs into action when he has the trust and support of his comrades and is the most confident when backed and reassured by the ones near him.

Unfortunately I find that this moment completely fell flat in the anime. They included Tanizaki's line about being criminals and it's in response to that that Kenji gives his speech which isn't bad per se....but doesn't give the same impact as the manga. They added some sparkles ✨ as he was speaking which made it a tad bit animated whereas in the manga it seems like the sun is shining on him...which makes me wonder how the anime would've looked if they actually showed a progression of time instead of just sticking to twilight hues...

5. Just your friendly neighborhood terrorist gang...

(BSD manga chapter 61)

And here is the most iconic and probably the greatest scene of all times, which was only partly animated. I'll let this one slide, but imagine how much funnier it would have been if they did include the first part. The fact that they are being pursued right now as the most wanted criminals, and how every second is extremely precious to them if they want to escape safely, and yet, Kunikida would steal someone's vehicle only after confirming they have an insurance for it (and letting them go if they don't).

Even him choosing to take a private vehicle rather than public transport to avoid jeopardizing other's lives...Kunikida is just so good. I love him so much you don't understand 🥹💕

6. Comprehensive personality analysis by Jouno Saigiku (Kunikida edition)

Okay sorry this is just me being salty but like....did they seriously give us an extended fish eye cut for this entire scene??!! I was so shocked I couldn't even focus on the weight and symbolism of the dialogue. I get the fish eye potential of this scene but like why....just why.

It's such a pivotal revelation about Kunikida, not just to us, the audience, but even to Kunikida himself, his deepest and innermost thoughts and fears laid out in the open like that. Jouno tears him down effectively, making him question himself and his ideals.

This part makes me crazy emotional in the manga, because the whole thing about Kunikida's ideals is that it actually weighs so heavily on him that he doesn't really realise that he is crumbling under the pressure of it. Deep inside, he is aware about the futility of pursuing them, as seen from how he admits it himself in Chapter 40 to Katsura, but instead of letting go, he keeps pushing himself. His ideals are not for others to follow, but something he demands of himself, in order to create a better world. And if the people whom he wants to protect are taken away, his ideals would come to an end, hence he'll be "free" from the heavy burden of his ideals.

Reducing all of this into a mere fish eye moment....bones I will remember this 😭😤

However, I do appreciate that they added a scene of Kunikida shielding Yosano from Tecchou, a nice parallel to when Yosano takes a bullet for Kunikida. It was just very heart warming to see all of them protect each other. There's also a small panel that was not animated, one where Jouno kicks Kenji out of the moving car and asks Kunikida and the others to go ahead, and there's a look of uncertainty and despair that passes on Kunikida's face, another instance of his internal conflict not included.

(also what is with all of Kunikida's enemies reading up on him and studying him?? Like I'm no different from these guys tbh I get it, I'm obsessed with him too but back off will ya...🙄)

I'm only considering this fan-made video by cocoa as the true anime scene because wth were they thinking 😭

Additional thoughts Episode 8

Kunikida's final answer

I would recommend going and reading the full manga for better reading experience, but in case you're feeling too lazy, I included the screenshots. I'm mostly satisfied with how this part was animated, but here are some of my thoughts about it anyways. Looking back to this chapter in the manga, it's definitely much more dramatic than its counterpart.

There's a panel where they just show him with his back hunched all alone as he ponders over what Jouno said which is really neat. The look of horror that passes over his face as he sees Kenji being stabbed is much more dramatic. In the anime, Kenji being stabbed was even more horrifying, and obviously more realistic of a reaction than him just going "huh?" as if it was nothing much.

There's even a panel of Kunikida gritting his teeth, until he realises what he needs to do. I loved the way he swung off the helicopter in the anime, it kinda lives rent free in my brain ngl. When Kunikida jumps off and kicks Tecchou, there's a close up of his face, full of determination and light in his eyes... it's just so beautiful because he's no longer hindered by self doubt. This light in his eyes remains the brightest in all the three panels.

While originally I was under the impression that this would be a very sad scene, the anime and the choice of music made it seem more of a heroic moment instead, which the more I think about, the more I feel was a good choice. After a series of unfortunate events and near death situations, Kunikida is faced with the choice to either give up or save everyone. His choice to sacrifice himself was one stemming from his role as a leader and also, most importantly to protect anyone else from getting hurt. This is also his firm answer back to Jouno's words, that he would continue striving for his ideals, even when sacrificing his own life.

And also, spoilers alert: he doesn't exactly die, so I think it was alright if they didn't make it too dramatic or melancholic. Still made me cry buckets nevertheless lol.

I'm not very good at character analyses so I would recommend reading this one over here. It's one of the best character breakdown I've ever seen for Kunikida and they have covered this part of the manga as well!

Of course, another amazing explanation of this scene is by Asagiri-sensei themselves, which you can find here.

Yet another deleted scene...

Kyouka decides to go save Atsushi

(BSD Chapter 63)

If you're curious about when Kyouka decided to go and save Atsushi instead and how they concealed themselves so well in that hole, here's an extended explanation in a flashback that was skipped in the anime. It's no surprise this was deleted, and I was pretty much expecting it as it's not that important of a detail. The most significant part of this scene of course would be the sheer determination in Kyouka's eyes to save Atsushi. I think it is a neat parallel to Atsushi back in s1 who insisted on saving Kyouka, even after Kunikida told him not to. In both instances, Kunikida tries to protest, but eventually relents and acknowledges their will and determination, lending them his aid. The anime also kinda missed giving us a cool render of that page in which Kyouka stands heroically before the military when she comes to save Atsushi (unfortunately I'm unable to add the image because of Tumblr's ten image limit...sigh).

Final thoughts

I've said this before, but I understand that anime has time constraints and other production matters that I'm unaware about, but the number of details that were removed while not surprising, was surely disappointing. My major problem was mostly with episode 7 with how rushed it was. By removing the build up, there's a certain lack of emotional depth in a number of scenes. There are many who did not find the episodes fast paced and rather consider it quite alright considering the theme of the arc, which is totally valid. However it's natural for manga readers to go into the anime with preconceived ideas about how they think the scene will go down. I'm personally just a little sad because firstly, Kunikida is my favourite character and secondly, I think he's one of the best written characters in all of BSD. He is one of the core characters in BSD, so I'm obviously disappointed that many of his parts just get removed since he's not one of the greater "fan favourites".

Of course, I have to give the anime credit where it's due. The animation is amazing this season and the voice acting is simply phenomenal. The OST is also pretty good and I desperately want that track they played for the hunting dogs introduction. They've truly given their heart and soul for this season, and I couldn't be happier as a BSD fan!! I'm super excited for the upcoming episodes!

Welp that's all from me! Thank you for coming to my ted talk! This was initially going to be just a simple compilation, until I started talking and couldn't shut up. I'm really grateful for anyone who reads this. Thank you very much!! If you've come this far, please do drop a comment because I'd love to hear your thoughts!!

Lastly, please go read the manga if you haven't already! Who knows, maybe you'll find some other missing detail of your favourite character!

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