#hahahahaha @ all of us☠️ | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

away-ward · 8 months ago

Note

hey, thanks for the mbti discussions KO! It was fun talking to you about it. This might the last one from me about damon and kai though, because i cant lie, they really never interest me that much before, so for me to even put two and two together about their characters this week already got me feeling ☠️🙂‍↕️😵‍💫 however, unlike kai, it's kinda obvious in the way that i was pulling for straws to understand damon's arc, because ngl, even thinking about him then writing his name in the same discussion post with emmy made me feel nauseous, lmfao! (If you cant already tell, i really hate his character so much!!! 😭🤣)

But i agree with you in that i believe damon's characterisation suffered from PD wanting to do the most most mostest everything for him. Like Rika. Yeah no wonder idgaf about them. I hate it when authors just can't write characters with flaws and try to make characters be so complicated, only for us to watch them fail to do that by the end of the series. Like what was the point of all that toomfooleries? Damon and Rika look like clowns! I laughed when they said they wanted to build the world because they got no skills to execute that. Just because you got ideas doesn't mean you have the skills or talent to make them a reality. That's what Damon and Rika's characters felt like to me.

PD could just give their stories one or two trajectories and stick with that, but nooooo they just HAD to be and be in everything �� At this point i'm trying to see the good in Damon's character or see any valid points to make him likeable TO ME but he always failed, because i feel like he was never gonna be enough, again FOR ME. Like Damon's character doesn't feel like he deserves all that happiness by the end of the series. His risk was not worth the pay, unlike Emory. I like villains, i like anti-heroes, but not the Wallmart versions like Damon Torrance. For example, i LOVE LOVE LOVEEEE Victor and Eli from Vicious. V.E. Schwab gave them clear trajectories and they never had to be everything or anyone else, never had to act like they're good or suddenly be everything like Damon was.

That's why Vicious' villain arcs are super interesting. Rin from the Poppy War by R.F Kuang had a really interesting hero-anti-hero-villain arc too, and she actually scare me sometimes with her craziness, hence why i really like her character. Pippa from a Good Girl's Guide to Murder had similar arc, and by the end of the trilogy made me feel like "damn, this is what dark romance could look like if authors have good writing, good plot, would want to deal with morally grey characters who have good reasons to be one, characterisation doesnt seem to come out of their asses but logical to the surroundings, wants and the nature of the MCs, and actually understand how romance can work even when there's no sex in their books, AT ALL". Dark romance today's just full of shocking sex/harems/orgies, absurd ass plot and "dark, broody, tall" characters. I truly believe that PD's bias towards Damon was what cheapened his arc and his potential.

Ugh sometimes i wish i am a damon torrance lover (or even bystander) so that i can relate to the majority of this fandom, but i can't choose who i like, and i definitely do not like him or his characterisation at all. Noo bcausee it's the way you counter my observation of him and even after some thinking, i really don't have any resoonse to that, because idgaf enough about him to think deeper, hahahahaha! Omg i realised today that i can be really bias with characters i hate, heh. Anywaym idk. I wish his fans, or rika and winter's fans are active on tumblr making discussion posts, because at least then maybe i can understand more of their fav characters?

Idk. These three, along with Michael are the shallowest characters in the series, and maybe that's why i don't like them? i would rather read about Micah and Rory's story than reread their books, tbh. Idk, their motives always felt so surfaced-level no matter how many times PD liked to write their conversations as "meaningful". I remember One ironic moment in Kill Switch when Damon was upset at Winter for having "a shallow heart" for not trusting him and i was like 😭🤣🤣🤣 broooooo, talking about a pot calling a kettle black. Like why was he looking down on Winter right now? She was the 16 year old blind girl who had to deal with the mess you started, not you! You deserved that jail time, not only for lying but for all the petty crimes in the phone too! OMFG! Like why do yall think yall soulmates for life? You both are dumb, AND SHALLOW! To a certain extend, You gotta attract what you are, and what you like most.

And Damon liked her enough that her shallowness didn't matter before, so why now? Winter too with Damon, she never expected him to be smart or good or with depth. She didn't even give a fuck if he was someone she didnt know when she was horny af. Like girl youre blind? And you dont have any allies at home or in town, why are you being YOUR best ally then? She literally just kept on believing lies left and right because she want to escape her life. Other than Damon, Dancing was the only thing that made her feel alive. So why was she even surprised taht he was sketch as hell? Winter is so fucking dumb! Like what? Not even until the end of KS had she ever acknowledged her own stupidity and fault in the trajectory of her own story. And I was again baffled when Damon was confused with Winter's arc, because when was she described as having depth? Even by him? Just pure and beautiful, untouched by anything ugly, the one who told him to use pain one at a time. Her character only exist to be a muse for Damon 🤣😭 and clearly winter never gaf enough about fucking her own sister's husband but why was she going around acting holier than thou all the time, and even in private, slut shaming girls left and right for fucking anyone? And not her shaming arion for her adventurous sex but continue to fuck damon and will at the ssame time? Winter's such a fucking dumb hypocrite.

and She sounds just like damon, only a very less ugly version of him! Like not damon slut shaming everyone and looking down on arion, when he was just as bad, if not worse than the girls he looked down on, but nobody called him a whore ass low life? Sometimes i wished in nightfall that emmy called him a slut and a motherfucker to see how he reacts because for all the hurtful things and pain he caused and said to his friends (especially the horsemen) and innocent people in this series, him betraying michael and working with his brother for no fucking reason than his stupid jealousy, i believe Damon's happy ending is not well-earned enough for me. I literally want someone to drown him in the sea like what he did to kai, will and rika, cause him all this turmoil and backstabbing like what he did to banks and michael, and torture and shame him in a chamber like what he did to rika and winter. When winter was angry at damon and spouting shit at him in KS, I was cheering for her, wishing she said more, because if that was me, i wouldve done and said worse.

Because TO ME, Damon really didn't deserve anything good in his life, not his sisters, not his wife, his bffs, his future. Shoudl've just died in a ditch somehwere. One thing that Damon and I are similar in that we both knew this was true. It's hard now for anyone to convince me that he does deserve them. Oh and also that scene in conclave with him and misha? What the fuck, misha didn't even do anything to him. Fuck Damon honestly. Suddenly be obsessed with rika? And for what? Ugh cringe as fuck! I can't believe winter wasn't suspicious of him having borderline polyamorous relationship with everyone, especially rika and will. (But winter has to only be close to him? 🙄) The high pain and disrespect from him to everyone, and him keep acting dumb and going around saying shit like "if theres anybody who knew how low life and hell life could be it was us" in KS, was not worth anything that he can offer them. But then i'm not them, and they're not me, clearly michael see enough value in him to want him on his team. Even emmy would pick him before the readers, so that's why i still don't see any reason to go so hard defending emmy. No characters in this series were ever painted as a righteous character, i don't trust any of them irl.

No matter how angry DamonWinter fans can be angry at me for this, this is just one point they can't deny. Winter is the most useless character in the series. Like how is her kid gone in fire night but we see more of other chars being distressed than herself? I can't with PD sometimes 😂 like at least they could try to not make it THAT obvious that they didn't care much about Winter's character. And just like how Damon only attracts what he is, it's also similar to how authors only know to write what they know, hence why not all "smart characters" are "smart", because some authors are just not smart enough to think of a plan for characters to show how their characters are capable of being smart without them shoving this shit in your face in their text explicitly all the time. Like how PD wanted to make Damon, Rika and Alex's characters capable of everything, but failed because when you lay them down with logic and timelines, they don't match up ☠️ like? Well, at least rika herself was aware of her flaws. But not PD, ofc. Like WTF? And just when we're about to see the real Alex, where her character has flaws too and not just strengths, PD glosses over them again when it's inconvenient for them to explain. PD really sucks at writing details and timelines, no matter how much they said they're a big planner. A big planner doesnt make a good planner.

idk how my initial MBTI discussion has become a Damon hate rant post but ugh i finally let out my unsatisfaction of how his character was written into the world. I too, love to read about villains, i too want to love an anti-hero, i too want to read soft characters like winter, but not when they're shallow as fuck, and until the end of fire night they did not change at all. Or even when they change, it's minimal. One thing that i agree with some of readswshelby's (from tiktok and youtube) take about about willemmy's story (unlike the rest of the couples) is for what it's worth with their shitty plot, you can see that from the start of the series and the start of the book to the end of the series and the end of the book, their characterisation and story changes from a to b. What does that mean? It means they have progressed, they have changed, and they have put work on themselves to change for the better. We dont always got to see them because PD didnt gaf enough to write about Willemmy more, but we knew willemmy had progressed. Which also leades to a differnt kind lf discussion.

Emmy started nightfall believing she cannot have the things she wants most and will started night with plans because he felt loss and alone but both still have understandble fears in building back their relationship and connecting with each other and with others around them, because they were nit ready and were always seen to be holding on to the past, but then one step forward, they decided how their story is gonna be like, and they ended nightfall with some of the most impactful closing scenes and lines from this series as a couple and individual, that summed up their past doubts and worries

"my life finally starts" because finally will executed what he wants by being beside emmy, even to bring down the gate to get to where she was, killing martin with his own hands, and was always seen running towards emmy despite what damon, aydin and alex kept on doing to him and his woman, he was fully ready now. Even to be a father and get back to academia. He was even ready to be there for his friends and family as compared to how he was scene in that hideaway extra. Just because emmy was there, will was tured of his past, and they wanted and will work forward together for their future. (Only damonwinter came close to this, but not the two other couples)

"i have everything i want, education, brothers, family, husband that i love, would love and fight for me", because emmy finally fought for the one thing she wanted the most, will, and she also had all the other things she wanted and need and are proud of like education, career, family, loving brothers etc., and she was finally ready to go on adventure with them now, and nothing else matters anymore, and not only this was true in nightfall, her character was also seen reassuring will's doubt in fire night about their life and their world, and her being part of the crew that handles the police report, then btpeating up ilya etc., solidifies not only willemmy's relationship in this series, but also her place in their family. We truly know now that even if we dont get bonuses of them, WillEmmy is thriving and nobody can touch that. Interesting how back then how at point a she was the one who kept on running around, and now, heakthier, at point b, she was the cornerstone that her husband, nephews, nieces, family and friends can rely only. This was what growth was supposed to look like in romance, which leads to the next point.

"we're free, nobody can stop us", and this is the truest thing ever because in the early stage of her fighting for Will, emmy finally initiated/ responds to the fight with anyone that tries to come in between her and will, be it her brother, aydin, alex, dmaon, michael and kai. Even her thought in the bridal room towards will's girl family members sounds provokinb of some sort, like how she was surprised they didnt say anything, which even if they did, she would definitely put them down for it. And then we see her in all the scenes after until FN, where her thoughts, beliefs and words match up with actions because not a single time she wasn't there for what she promised. Again, begins with point A and ends with point B. Her caharcter, and will had the most progress because they put in the work. (there were many more, but i dont feel like including them, but if you have anything to add KO, please do)

and this is why i think willemmy felt like the most balanced and full fleshed out characters. Because they have a worry of their own, and they have worres togetehr, but from point A where they couldn't sove it in the beginning, progress was done actively/passively then we got to point B the ending. idk if DN readers realised this, but this maybe why PD got so much criticisms for their MichaelRikaBanksKai content, because not only they fucked up with KaiBanks, they promise us now that they have no HEA for these two couples. And HEA is what the romance genre is mainly known for, especially by seasoned readers and writers. Writers, editors, readers, and even the industry knew that this is one of the biggest promise that consumers will get when they consume the romance genre. That's why readers got angry when couples dont have chemistry, or no promisin HEA. They felt cheated. Many famous authors have discussed this, and and many romance readers agreed to this rule, hence why the romance subreddit too, have a rule of "have to be HEA, if not, it's not romance" or redit users can put on a disclaimer on their book posts if they want to suggest non-HEA books.

You can look up to what make the romance genre a genre online, and also see all the many romance subreddit post about what makes romance a Romance to them. And this is what PD failed to deliver. But then i only found out later that PD actually labelled Corrupt as Dark Erotica (not Dark Romance) and PD had been known to not like to be boxed in strict labels, so maybe this was where one of the readers' misunderstanding, unsatisfaction and confusion of not getting enough romance in this series could come from? Idk, once i change my mindset of DN to dark erotica, i didn't feel like i was lied to as much, because erotica is very different from romance, and i dont have the same expectation of a romance book to an erotica. Erotica will have sex that progresses the story as compared to romance where the romantic tension was what build of the relationship. Maybe that's why DN felt out of place because it wasn't marketed right?

But i feel like THAT's also why labelling is so important in marketing and advertising especially for the romance genre, because the romance genre is so big, and it could literally change readers' opinions and understanding of the books they're reading, but PD is PD and their confusing vagueness was what started all of this 🙄 idk, but i feel like they're a messy person as in, they like to cause mess bu don't know how to clean that up, but then putting something in a box later felt too real and felt like they have to confront with what's expected from the box and the consequences of it, so the easiest way is for them to cop out and abandon that all, and just write what they want and leave the rest to everyone but PD themselves. Idk, but i think i associate PD's personality as being irresponsible and messy now, because clearly they cared enough about what readers thought of their works to the point the took a break from DN, but not enough to change i guess? No matter how i see it, i just cannot look past how they handle this. Like at all. And it's something to keep in mind when i come across other authors and how they respond to readers and their crafts.

wow, this was a long ass post KO. Hopefully you dont find them burdensome 😅 thanking you for taking your time to reading this and responding

This might the last one from me about damon and kai though

Heyy! Don't worry about it. I don’t think I have much new to say anyway.

Regarding your feelings on Damon, though, that’s totally understandable. Like everything in Corrupt, there was such good potential in him, but I think the more we shed light on him and the less mystery, the less interesting he becomes. That’s true about a lot of things though. Unfortunantely, I think it would even be true of Micah and Rory. You know PD would never just let them be a cute domestic couple forever if they were to expand on their story. The more you get to know about them, the less interesting they might become. Or worse, you might even come to be unsatisfied with them to the point where you hate it. Best to leave things be.

Some of the things you said got me thinking, and I’ve never mentioned this before because I kind of thought everyone thought the same way – like it was written in the subtext of the series, but maybe it wasn’t the same for everyone.

All of the characters are supposed to be soulmates, right? Platonic and otherwise.

Like, the way the story is written, they hear a unique call that nobody else hears and that’s why they are drawn together. They’re unable to resist the call, and the more they try to deny it, the more restless they become. When they finally admit that these are their people and this is who they’re supposed to be, they feel a sense of contentment and belonging. For Damon, it’s the basis of his obsession. These are his people, and they have to feel it, too. There’s no way they can’t feel it. It doesn’t matter what Winter is or isn’t; she’s meant to be his and for no rhyme or reasons, he’s not going to let her go. It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t get along with Kai most days. They’re drawn together because of this intangible thing and nothing can touch it or kill it. It's the same for all of them. Unlike Misha, who didn’t hear the call, and whom Damon eventually tolerates for Rika and Will’s sake. I just wish that it was touched on more from other character’s perspectives. I mean, I could be making this all up, but that was the impression I got.

For me, I think PD struggles the most with when to be over the top and when to bring it back down. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy they have fun with their ideas and fully lean into them, but it’s a skill to know when to pull back. Like the example you mentioned, Damon’s comment about ruling the world. Because, like, why? What would he want to rule the world for? And how are they going to convince themselves they’re not criminals when they’re trying to “rule” the world? Whereas, it would have had a more significant impact if he said something like, “we’re going to run this city, Rika.” Even though the Thunder Bay is much smaller than the world, it really shows how they’re going to carve out a corner for themselves, take control, and be a real threat to anything that tries to cross into their territory. And while I know Damon was probably speaking figuratively, it’s just such a weird way to say it.

I don’t expect a realistic plot from content like this. I expect over the top nonsense from start to finish. But there’s a balance to it. And when things are imbalanced, we get a laughable, cliché mess of a story. Which is why even some dark romance (or erotica, if that’s what it’s better termed as in this case) are still better written than DN, even though the intent behind them was the same. Character arcs, too, seem to be a mixture of darts thrown at a spinning table and “ohh won’t this be fun?” Which can be fine for a first draft but really should be refined before release. The narrow window between KS and NF, and possibly listening too much to fans and not enough to their own creative instincts, are two things I think really impacted how poorly some of these things came across.

I doubt I’ll ever understand the extent DamonWinter love, or even the Winter love. And I also wish there were Rika and Winter blogs, because I’d love some good analysis and insight on them. I’m so open to other people’s opinions, even if I don’t agree, and I know that there are others in this fandom that are, too. I also know how hard it can be to take things that you think and feel, and put them into sentences that make sense! But I’d love some explanation on Winter from a fan that’s as completely obsessed as I am with Emory. It doesn’t have to be good, it doesn’t have to be well written, it doesn’t even have to be in line with what I think; I’m open to changing. But just something thoughtful.

And just when we're about to see the real Alex, where her character has flaws too and not just strengths, PD glosses over them again when it's inconvenient for them to explain.

Yes! I was telling a friend that hasn’t read DN that part of the problem with Alex is that the other characters are never allowed to be mad at her. Friends sometimes cause problems, they offend, things go off track. Alex is a controversial character, not because she’s an escort, but because she doesn’t care about opinions. But not caring about opinions and always doing exactly what you want often times causes problems, especially with people you’re close to. PD is really trying to tell us that for five years, Alex has never done anything that didn’t sit right with any one of these incredibly different characters? Michael and Kai fight over how to handle Rika every two seconds, but nobody cares that Alex is trying to distract the security guards from their duties, because she’s just so cute? Alex roofies Michael and potentially jeopardizes the entire rescue mission, but as long as she’s safe it’s all okay? She leaves Emory open and exposed to violent predators and a man who by all visible signs hates her, but Emory can’t be mad because it’s Alex.

All of these things would be interesting and great characterization, a good way to look into the dynamics of the group, if the other characters were allowed to deal with it, but I can’t think of a single time a character has chastised her other than Banks on one or two occasions. They can be mad at her and still be her friend; it’s not one or the other. It would even be interesting to see how Alex uses her ability to manipulate on a character like Michael or Kai when she’s done something that upsets them – but they’re never that upset with her. It’s weird and annoying.

As for your Willemmy analysis, I see everything you’re getting at. I think willemmy’s characters and storyline make more sense than Damonwinter and is packs a more emotional punch that Michaelrika. And Will annoys me less than Kai (sorry KaiBanks fans).

idk if DN readers realised this, but this maybe why PD got so much criticisms for their MichaelRikaBanksKai content, because not only they fucked up with KaiBanks, they promise us now that they have no HEA for these two couples.

I think most readers probably know what their issue is. I wonder if PD realizes that’s why there was an uproar. See, if a fan wrote something like that, other fans who are into those scenarios probably would have gobbled it up. But having it come from the creator, making it canon, ruins the impression that other fans who don’t want that have. Even if PD had just said “Yeah, sometimes I think about the four of them together.” That would be different than an entire scene where it becomes “official”. As a fan, they have the right to think of DN however they want, but as the creator, their words carry power and authority. I remember when that scene came out, they were thinking that people didn’t like Rika and Banks, but that honestly wasn’t the issue. I’m not a Rika fan, but I would have read a boring scene just to see what’s going on with her.

PD had been known to not like to be boxed in strict labels, so maybe this was where one of the readers' misunderstanding, unsatisfaction and confusion of not getting enough romance in this series could come from?

Yeah, I would say DN fits a little better when I don’t think of it as a romance, but as a story with a romantic storyline

but PD is PD and their confusing vagueness was what started all of this

The way you’re saying this makes PD sound like one of those ao3 writers that’s like “no tags, just read” like the tags aren’t there to be spoilers; they’re there for a reason. But I don’t know if PD was intentionally being vague because they didn’t want to give anything away or just thought the “dark romance” would be enough to cover the content. Maybe like you said, there was a misunderstanding on what makes it a romance, and of course, they wanted to be seen, and it has a romance storyline, so it’s not lying to put it in romance…

The confusion is unfortunate, but I wouldn’t rake anyone over the coals for it.

Hopefully you dont find them burdensome

I don’t find them burdensome at all! It just sometimes takes me a while to get to them. I mostly always respond on a desktop, because reading the longer ones on mobile is hard. That’s why it takes me so long to respond. Thanks for your patience though! And for sending in your thoughts. I enjoy the discussions.

#asked and answered #devil's night series #series discussion #asked and answered 294 #no alex tag #damon torrance

0 notes