#hahahaha tagging time lesgoooo

[royalvelvette]

Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for. He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam. Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman. Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real. So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him. So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work). Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf), or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great). So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.

What I'm getting from this ask (given that readability on long asks is. rough)

Me 🤝 You Good and Evil should be treated as characters in their own rights

Ask reformatted + a proper response under the cut

(Ask in quotes, my response indented)

(Addendum after I finished responding: I don't disagree with you, my interpretation is just different, but I think yours is cool on its own merits! I just like. thinking abt Hazbin and this ask gave me a lot of fodder to think about my interpretation vs yours and was handy for comparison)

"Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for."

I don't necessarily think Al is a fraud, per se; I just think he's not as strong without Evil supplementing his powers with the staff. Like, I think - he had some power. I firmly believe that your actions in life translates to your base power level as a sinner/winner; and that the length of time passed since your death also adds to that power. He was a decently powerful sinner at death (serial killer); not Overlord level by any means, but pretty close to the top of sinners in general. I think he grew that power by picking off sinners on his level and, like you say, making more minor deals (or soul deals with weaker sinners, where the alternative would be he keeps killing you over and over and over in new and inventive ways). I do think he killed the Overlords, I just think he did that after he had made his deal with Evil for more power, instead of solely with his own.

"He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam."

Oh, you and I both agree on Alastor talking a bigger game than what he could play. I think, even before he was powerful enough to back his actions, he was mouthing off/mocking Overlords who, at the time, were in an entirely different weight class. He has a terrible habit of doing this, imo - with Lucifer in 'Dad Beat Dad and Adam in 'Finale'; plus, depending on your interpretation, even Charlie (I'm specifically referring to the first advertisement for the hotel - I think I've discussed it in tags b4, but it reads to me as Alastor seeing how far he can push before Charlie snaps). We agree, again, on Husk being more powerful than Alastor when the gamble happened! God, I have a lot of thoughts about Husk as an Overlord; and the gamble, in particular. Husk, I feel, is... mostly honest; even as a gambling Overlord. I don't think Husk rigged it in his favour, and I don't think Alastor would have cheated (just due to possible consequences if he got caught - and if anyone was gonna catch him cheating at gambling, it was going to be Husk) Husk most likely would have bet big, possibly to scare Alastor - Alastor had less power, so something that wasn't 'all in' for Husk would be all in for Al; one loss on Al's side at the beginning of the gamble would put Alastor's soul into Husk's hands. Ehhhhhh, Adam... definitely realized Alastor was injured. He's so fucking smug about it, the asshole.

"Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman."

I don't have much to say here, just because of where my interpretation differs from yours.

"Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real."

Yes, thank you! Good and Evil are represented as physical beings! It's one of my favourite bits of the opening narration because it has so many implications for the world of Hazbin Hotel. Good & Evil are fundamental forces; I think they can't interact with the physical world w/o a vector - for Good, the angels & Heaven; for Evil, the Sins (sans Lucifer) & Hell. Good, because the angels created the first humans, had a way to interact with Earth first, through Adam and Lilith. Once Lucifer and Lilith gave Eve the fruit of knowledge, she became Evil's way to interact with Earth. All descendants of Adam and Eve (Good and Evil) therefore have the capability of both Good and Evil, due to being vectors.

" So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him."

I think Adam does have a concept of Evil in him - but I think him being created from Earth's dust by the angels kept him from being affected as strongly as Eve by the fruit. Eve was made from his rib; her connection to Good as a force was more dilute, if that makes sense? tbh I think Adam got into Heaven because he was the first man. I think if Lilith had died, instead of being banished to Hell, she would go to Heaven for the same reason. The two of them are as close to divine/angelic as a human can be; therefore they belong to Heaven in a way other humans... don't.

"So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work)."

I think, human-wise, you're correct - only Adam & Lilith could kill Eve (as Evil's vector). Charlie is... an iffy case, for me - yes, she's descended from one of the only humans untouched by Evil and a fallen angel; but she was born into Evil's home. I think, if anything, her nature would be closer to Eve's pre-fruit - she has connection to Good, but it's much more diluted than Lilith's ever is/was. Charlie could kill Eve (as Evil's vector) anywhere that isn't Hell, basically - Evil can't have homefield advantage.

"Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf)"

I really like the idea of vectors of Good & Evil being able to sense each other's creation... Also Evil accidentally killing potential vectors. I think Good would have the same problem, honestly - Good and Evil are fundamental forces of this universe; they aren't meant for mortal ken. The OG trio of humans being exceptions to that rule.

"or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great)."

The concept of "the greater good" strikes again! Love me some morally grey characters who do horrific things for 'good reasons', it's so fucking delicious. Also, anon. You, uh. Are aware that Val is one of my favourite characters, right? And that I'm writing a whole AU where he grows and changes for the better, yes? Like... I am very much what most of the fandom would consider an 'apologist', if my experiences in... several other fandoms that I will not be naming are anything to go by.

"So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up."

Yeah, I definitely think Alastor's purpose has to do with the concept of redemption - whether that be, as you say, preventing it entirely; or as I said in the Alastor & Lilith breakdown, being to only 'redeem' on a superficial level, thereby allowing Evil into Heaven. Also you should be impressed! It's a really good interpretation of canon, honestly, especially for a subconscious mind. Like, hands down, I can see this being viable in the canon of the show.