#hagoromo was a great father - wasn't he

[bunniefaery]

I saw this article calling Sasuke a Villain and how the live-action shouldn't include his "villain" arc, because it "felt tedious and too convoluted to the bigger narrative" and instead they should make him a pivot for the fight against the Otsutsuki...

Did this person watch the anime or read the manga?

Article from CBR, Title: The Naruto Live-Action Movie Doesn't Need To Adapt This Villain Arc

1. Protect Konoha from what? The Uchiha wanted to end the decades long discrimination and oppression they were facing at the hands of the higher ups... (Not to mention that when Kurama attacked the village (under genjutsu, when Naruto was born), and during the konoha crush, no other villages went to attack the Leaf after the events), not even after the Pein arc...

2. Most people would hate growing up alone, and why was that sentence in bold?

3. Sasuke didn't find out about the true reason Itachi did what he did, until after Itachi died, as well as the real reason behind said Coup... as far as I am aware. And why wouldn't he want revenge against Konoha (specifically the 3 people who are left that caused all of his trauma and the uchiha genocide, it'd be 4 but the Sandaime Hokage was already dead by this point in the story)

4. What "wars" against Madara and Obito? There was only 1 War against them, the 4th great ninja war, that lasted 2 days a.k.a. approximately ~212 episodes, including filler (volumes 55 through 59 in the Manga, according to google)

"Naruto and Sasuke were reincarnations of her sons (Ashura and Indra, respectively)"

Okay, so the author didn't watch nor read Naruto...

Indra and Ashura Otsutsuki are not Kaguya's sons... they are her grandsons 👁️👄👁️ Homura and Hagoromo Otsutsuki are her sons... and Hagoromo is Ashura and Indra's father…

I feel like the author doesn't know much about Kaguya either, if they did they'd know her story.

"The advantage of Sasuke being a rebel without defecting from Konoha is that Naruto would have the help needed to fight the big villains of the franchise: the Ōtsutsuki."

When the time came, was Sasuke not helping Naruto with that? 🧐 And why shouldn't he have defected from Konoha? What good could they do for him?

Why does Sasuke need to be convinced to return home, when his home was taken from him by this "home" the author speaks of, that "home" being Konoha? Why should he return to the place that treated his people so poorly that they felt they no other choice but to do a coup against the people in charge of Konoha only to be wiped out for daring to stand up for themselves after years of oppression...?

Konoha, specifically Danzo, the third hokage, and 2 hogake advisors, Homura and Koharu (3 of which where Tobirama Senju's students and all 4 of which were on his personal team, and we all know what Tobi thought of the Uchiha) forced Itachi to wipeout his whole clan, excluding Sasuke, and then blamed him for it. They swept what they did under a filthy rug, that already had many skeletons piling up, and acted like he was the most evil person... He was a child and he was forced to do that and to become a fugitive by the old people in charge, who had no business being in charge of Konoha since there should've been a 5th Hokage by then... (regardless if Itachi regretted it or not, which he never really does)

I won't say it...😇

"Sasuke could learn more about how Indra developed a dark side, which passed down to the Uchiha, while Ashura's light gave way to the Senju and Uzumaki (Naruto's family) clans"

1. While I do agree that Naruto should've learnt more of the Uzumaki (and the Namikaze), besides finding out they excelled in Sealing Jutsus, had very long lives and were a bit savage (it wasn't in-depth at all, and there is no one to teach him, since the Uzumaki are also victims of genocide (in which Konoha did not help protect them) and well, I don't know what happened to Minato's people)

2. And that Sasuke should've learnt more of his people (but how was he going to, when he was the only one left at age 7/8?)

3. Indra's dark side... it wasn't passed down, nor did it emerge until his father gave his little brother the title of successor and expected him to follow without questions, having his birthright taken away because he was more introverted than his little brother whom their father called "the flunky useless dropout younger brother" (according to a panel I saw). And implied, at least to me, that ninjustu was created for wars and all things evil (Indra created ninjustu when he was just a child). ah yes his dark side the Uchiha inherited, that darkness of wanting to be treated like people and with respect in the village they helped make.

4. Kushina calls the Uzumaki, among other things, a bit savage. Batsuma Senju punched Hashirama, a child at the time, for being angry/sad that his little brother died, saying he was disrespecting his brother (and him) by basically questioning the system. Tobirama is a Senju, who was not shy about his hatred and prejudice against the Uchiha Clan (he is after all the founder of the bigoted psuedo science that was the "Curse of Hatred" the Uchiha are supposedly afflicted by, a clan that according to him is cursed and called Sasuke "a brat possessed by Uchiha evil") and that's on Ashura's "light" that gave way for his descendants, the Uzumaki and the Senju, "a clan of love~"🥰

Right, because he wasn't a pivot to the story, nor did his and naruto's story have any "heart and impact"... Right...

At some point, I wonder if some of this article is just satire 😅

[swordrose-fluidflux]

The “Will of Fire” part 2: Konoha’s Nepotism - the Origin

Definition of nepotism: favoritism (as in appointment to a job) based on kinship / Definition of kinship: close relationship or connection with someone; common ancestry; relationship by marriage 

The inherent nepotism of Konoha goes as far back as Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki, the Sage of the Six Paths. 

He had two sons, Indra and Ashura. Indra had powerful eyes and a strong sense for battle, while Ashura didn’t show any signs of talent.

Ashura needed the cooperation of those around him in order to be as strong as Indra. Indra was just better at improving by himself. Ashura became as powerful as Indra through harsh training, which shows that they actually had the same amount of strength, just different strength. For some reason Hagoromo doesn’t acknowledge this. 

Note (above): This is Obito talking to Naruto while he pretends to be Madara.

As a genius, Indra didn’t need to rely on other people. However, this isolated him from others, while Ashura gained comrades. 

“He came to understand what it meant to care for others.” Does this mean that he didn’t know what it means to care for others before? The sentence implies this. Furthermore, right before Hagoromo says “He also understood that everyone working together to help him is what made him strong.” and he says right after “And he realized that with love, anything was possible.” 

This shows a rather pragmatic view of love, which is based on mutual benefit with Ashura giving back care towards others, who extended care to him first. Also, his realization shows his ambition to keep on getting something out of love.

Unfortunately, the manga doesn’t show Indra’s interactions with other people and if he cared about them, but it can be assumed that he didn’t receive help from other people unlike Ashura because he was able to achieve everything on his own with solely his own power.

Hagoromo’s reaction to all this was to make Ashura his sole heir, which comprises making him his successor as the next leader of Ninshuu and entrusting all his power to him. 

He gave Indra nothing and expected him to just follow his younger brother, who didn’t have his strong sense for battle and was generally less smart in regard to chakra.

Hagoromo’s extreme favoritism of Ashura over Indra because of their shared belief in “cooperation” being true power, shows his extreme nepotism. 

There’s no information whether Ashura was nepotistic, too. However, Hagoromo’s account of the events doesn’t mention Ashura offering Indra anything or talking with Hagoromo so that Indra might get at least some kind of heritage from him. Not to mention, Ashura apparently expected Indra to follow him. 

It can be assumed that Ashura followed in Hagoromo’s footsteps including when it comes to nepotism because of the aforementioned reasons and also because the leaders of the Senju clan, one branch of Ashura’s descendants, apparently continued to choose their successors however they wanted to by themselves.

[aikoiya]

Naruto AU - Alternate Kaguya Lore

If it were up to me, I'd make just a couple of small changes to the overall lore of Naruto. For one, the moon wasn't created, not by Hagoromo or by any mortal, because the Earth not having a moon would've had so many consequences for the environment, I just can't even. No, the moon always existed &, in fact, taking a bit of inspiration from the real world's version of Princess Kaguya, specifically Studio Ghibli's animated recreation of the story, the moon is where Naruto's version of Kaguya came from.

In my version, I'd make it so that Kaguya had once been the Kaguya from Studio Ghibli, but upon returning to the moon & staying there for so long, she became bitter & mistrustful of love as her's had been scorned & almost all of her suitors had been conniving, while the only one of merit had, unfortunately, died in his genuine attempt to accomplish the task bequeathed to him. Not to mention the emperor's attempt to rape her.

It had greatly soured her views of love despite how Cháng'é's stories of romance had enchanted her so long ago.

Here, Cháng'é was the original Tsuki no Hitobito & really had accidentally swallowed both pills of immortality when she'd tried to hide them both from a theif, so she truly was in love with Hou Yi.

At the time of her ascension, she had been pregnant with quadruplets & thus the first Tsuki no Hitobito had come into being.

However, she then attracted the attention of Tsukuyomi, who then took her as his wife in exchange for allowing her half-mortal children to live on Tsuki (this is after he'd divorced from his first wife & sister, Amaterasu). After which, Cháng'é had many more children.

She was considered the mother of the Tsuki no Hitobito.

However, because of this, the Tsuki no Hitobito aren't necessarily parasitic aliens & really are considered 'gods.' At least partial-gods, but they're also at least partially human. It ranges depending on the individual member & whether or not one is descended from Hou Yi or not.

There are actually 2 separate clans on Tsuki depending on who the 'founding father' was. The descendants of Tsukuyomi being the Ōtsutsuki & the descendants of Hou Yi being Lièrén'de'yuèliàng. It is unknown whether the rumors of Hou Yi being a god of hunting is true or if he simply had a Kami's level of skill at it, so his descendants' 'kami-ness' is often put into question by the Ōtsutsuki & they are considered outsiders & 'less than' among the Tsuki no Hitobito. Not just because they are possibly the product of 2 mortals, but because despite the fact that Cháng'é loved all her children & grandchildren greatly, it was obvious that she sometimes unintentionally gave the descendants of her mortal husband special attention. Thus, this can cause the Ōtsutsuki to become jealous. This causes the Lièrén'de'yuèliàng to be treated as the low class of Tsuki.

In actuality, Kaguya was the secret daughter of an Ōtsutsuki heiress who cheated on her Ōtsutsuki husband with a Lièrén'de'yuèliàng. Kaguya was the result of the woman's infidelity.

Anyway, the Ōtsutsuki are much like the Legacies of Percy Jackson if said Legacies were also immortal.

Kaguya was just one of Cháng'é's many, many grandchildren who was enamored by her great great grandmother's tales of Earth which is what lead to the story of Princess Kaguya.

She didn't go back to Earth until much later, after the collapse of modern civilization, during a time when the far east was at war with itself. That was when the lore of Naruto began.

Moving on, when the Rikudō Sennin, Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki, sealed the Jūbi's body into the moon, he did so with Chakra Chains or Chakra Jōhyō by dragging the kunai-like ends across the surface of the moon to create seals. (Which must've been pretty shocking for any Tsuki no Hitobito living there.)

It is from Hagoromo's son, Asura Ōtsutsuki, that both the Senju & Uzumaki clans came to be.

[al-hekima-madara-blog]

I haven't read the Asura/Indra for a very long time and this analysis is so refreshing thank you ! The more I think about it, the more Hagoromo was out of his mind. How sane person can expect that the creator of ninjutsu and the most knowledgable ninshu user (Indra) to just accept to follow his little brother who can't do half of what he does, it's pure nonesense. And then people wonder why ninshu path never work? They have a mediocre master to start with.

Imagine you are major in Maths and you help in the past your little brother with his algebra homeworks. Then not only he is chosen as your headteacher with no merits but "he is friendly", but you have to help him if he does mistake in front of his peers so he can continue to be your boss and appears competent.

I don't know if it's because it's a japanese fiction, but in Naruto's world questioning injustice is frown upon. Reforming a statu quo is a big NO-NO. Any sign of rebellion even legitimate against authority will always be crushed in blood. Compliance and silence are virtue.

The “Will of Fire” part 2: Konoha’s Nepotism - the Origin

Definition of nepotism: favoritism (as in appointment to a job) based on kinship / Definition of kinship: close relationship or connection with someone; common ancestry; relationship by marriage 

The inherent nepotism of Konoha goes as far back as Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki, the Sage of the Six Paths. 

He had two sons, Indra and Ashura. Indra had powerful eyes and a strong sense for battle, while Ashura didn’t show any signs of talent.

Ashura needed the cooperation of those around him in order to be as strong as Indra. Indra was just better at improving by himself. Ashura became as powerful as Indra through harsh training, which shows that they actually had the same amount of strength, just different strength. For some reason Hagoromo doesn’t acknowledge this. 

Note (above): This is Obito talking to Naruto while he pretends to be Madara.

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