#guilt over barb's death is nancy's arc

[dodger-chan]

Been reading more fanfic lately and - grump that I can't help being - have to bitch on here about a bit of Stranger Things fanon I simply cannot accept.

Steve Harrington is not consumed with guilt over Barb's death.

He's not happy about it. He might never stop thinking Nancy blames him for it. But in no way is it his driving force.

Some of it is that he never really knew her, but mostly it's that Steve doesn't spend a lot of time dwelling. He's a doer, not a thinker. When he does think it's about how to move forward and as soon as he comes up with an actionable step one he's doing it before the full plan is finalized.

Though since it is so much more fun writing characters trapped in their misery, and it's not nice to complain without providing an alternative, I offer this partial list of things Steve might feel guilty about:

calling Jonathan a slur (especially in a fic where Steve's just realized he likes guys)

not being a good enough boyfriend to Nancy between seasons one and two

losing the fight to Billy and so forcing Max to handle her brother

getting Erica involved with the Russians

getting them all locked in the elevator/lost in the Russian base

giving the Russians Dustin's name and address

still being attracted to Robin

not helping Max enough after Billy's death

[londondziban]

I try so hard to avoid certain parts of the fandom (you will never catch me on stranger things Reddit and like 80% of stranger things Instagram) for SO many reasons but one of the main reasons is the dislike for Barb

honestly, the dislike typically borders on a pure hatred for the character and I honestly don't get it. so many people excuse the Barb hate by waving their hand and saying "she was only alive for three episodes" as if this fact completely dismisses her importance to the overarching story of season 1 and 2

Barb, her friendship and death, is one of the most important parts of Nancy's storyline? throughout every season? so many people water Nancy down to the love triangle when in reality one of, if not her biggest, arcs in the show is losing Barb and struggling with the survivors guilt afterwards. her survivors guilt and overall grief over Barb is highlighted in every single season and has been shown to influence her actions over and over again (like when she instantly has Fred come investigate Chrissy's murder with her in season 4)

I don't know where I'm going with this post but I'm sick and tired of people in the fandom discarding Barb like she never mattered, meanwhile, the same people will obsess over Eddie despite his genuine lack of importance as a character to the plot/show in general (do not get me wrong, I like Eddie. it is just undeniable that his character role could've easily been filled by Steve or Jonathan)

[share-the-damn-bed]

I agree with your read on the Jancy fight in s2, and it's why Jancy endgame is the only outcome that makes sense for me. We need to see that the characters have grown across the show. Jonathan needs to stop letting his family responsibility prevent him from living his life and choose a future with Nancy, and Nancy needs to not just go with the "easier" choice (Steve) and show that she's willing to fight for her love and not let Jonathan slip away from her. Otherwise what have they learned?

Thank you so much, Anon! I completely agree about jancy (no surprise lol) and agree that their arcs are set up for an endgame in some capacity. 

What I want to gently push back on, or at least question, is this idea of Steve being the easier choice now. I absolutely agree that Steve was the “easy” or comfortable choice in seasons 1 and 2 (and why I believe Nancy stayed with him along with guilt over Barb’s death and wanting it to not be in vain) but Steve’s life and his relationship to Nancy have changed so much by season 4 that if Nancy were to choose to be with Steve again, I don’t see it being an easy choice. For her to get back with Steve now, she would have to break up with her current boyfriend and navigate that fallout to be together. Which is messy (even if it ends up being what she wants). 

When she chose Steve at the end of season 1, it was the safe and easy choice because their relationship and feelings were already established. Additionally, in season 2, Steve was offering her a comfortable life where he doesn’t go to college, stays in Hawkins, works for his dad at a job with benefits and all that adult stuff, where he can still be with her while she’s stuck in town for her senior year (but implies a life settling down in Hawkins). This is a comfortable life that resonates strongly with the vision she ranted against in season 1. We can even see the fear on her face when he mentions it. 

Two season later, in season 4, Steve has gone through his redemption arc but we don’t really know much about his ambitions and desires other than he is desperately searching for “the one”, he doesn’t want to leave Hawkins (and specifically doesn’t want to date girls who are leaving for college in the fall), and wants to have a large family that go on summer road trips together (which is cute and great for him!) However, we also see that he’s working at Family Video and has not expressed any desire to move beyond that. In season 3, he mentions that his dad is punishing him for not getting into IU by making him work at Scoops Ahoy but we don’t know if the plan is still for him to eventually work for his dad.

Taking all of this into consideration, it’s clear that Steve’s not promising (or, more likely, not able to promise) a comfortable lifestyle for Nancy that mirrors the traditional single-income, “man works, woman takes care of the house and kids” future he kinda suggested to her in season 2 (which again, she did not like). Long story short, Steve is no longer presenting a comfy life to Nancy. If she chooses to be with him, it would not be for those reasons anymore.

So no, I do not think Steve is the easy choice or even the most comfortable choice anymore BUT I also think that Nancy’s attraction to Steve in season 4 stems from nostalgia and comfort seeking at a time where she is very insecure in her current relationship and feels unloved. In short she is retreating back to the comfort of Steve. 

TLDR: Steve is comforting and fun and Nancy enjoyed the nostalgia of their time together during season 4 BUT choosing to love Steve now in season 4/5 would not be the easy of most comfortable choice for Nancy.  

[fragilecapric0rnn]

I have a suggestion for the College-Defferer Nancy AU (if you’re open to it) which is - Journalism is the problem

Nancy had very little/no interest in it untied Barb when missing, and by then it was a tool to help uncover the truth, so what if, when the last gate is closed and she finally has time to figure out who she is outside Hawkins, part of that is realising it was never her passion, it was her responsibility

And when it isn’t anymore, it gets so much harder to remember why she used to love it

always open to talk about Nancy and her college deferment character arc!

(also sorry this took me so long to respond to, i put it in my drafts and then forgot that it was in my drafts 🙃)

i've actually been toying with this idea! because its true! it is apart of the problem. the problem being that she tied so much of herself to the UD and to Barb's death. So when the war is over and her best friend is still dead and she still carries so much guilt, it becomes harder to ignore the fact that journalism is an obligation more than it is her actual passion.

i think that part of her journey in the deferment fic is figuring out what she likes, what she cares about, and her figuring that out in the aftermath of everything.

i don't really know what that would be for nancy! i don't see her wanting to become a cop or work for the government, as i see her coming out of this as very anti-cop/anti-establishment. but i also see her doing something that helps people, maybe even protects people from the establishment? if that makes sense? idk i have a few ideas and can't wait to explore them in this fic!

[rotating-hyperfixations]

I spend far too much time consuming and thinking about media (we love having adhd and not needing to think about our personal life) and I’ve been on a Stranger Things kick for months now and as a result I’ve spent a lot of timing sifting through fandom content. And one of the things I’ve noticed over the past few months, is that from certain subsections of the fandom that there appears to be this fundamental misunderstanding from certain sections of the fandom on Nancy Wheeler. Particularly pertaining to her romantic relationships with Jonathan and Steve, and the big fights they have in seasons 2 and 3 respectively.

We’ll start with season 2 because it comes first and I think this is where the root of the problem begins. In season 2, we all know that she has the big fight with Steve at the Halloween party. Contextually we know that Nancy’s main arc of season 2 is her lingering guilt from Barbs death in season 1 and trying to get her death recognized. As the season begins, we see that she is still together with Steve but ultimately she is struggling, as is Steve to some degree. There are clear references to this with her hallucinating Barb at the library and the break down at the Hollands house. This all comes to a head at the Halloween party when she gets absolutely piss drunk and all of these big feelings she has been suppressing come pouring out and it’s very clear why. She has been pretending that everything is all good, when everything is most certainly not all good. I think she made this choice for a variety of reasons, and her relationship with Steve is one of them as we see that he shares the same philosophy and states several times that they just have to pretend like all is well. Now Steve is also clearly traumatized by the events of season 1, he helped fight the demogorgen and Barb died in his pool. However, he didn’t have a relationship with Barb in the way Nancy did, he has more general upside down trauma like the kids, and isn’t grappling with the loss of a close friend in the way Nancy was (which is a whole myriad of psychological issues). So it makes sense, why the pretending everything is all good doesn’t work as well for Nancy as it does Steve has her trauma in relationship to season 1 is far more personal.

Now, Nancy has her missteps in season 2 with cheating to Jonathan and not communicating her feelings with Steve sooner, but all these kids have PTSD with no outlet and access to therapy (most likely). We see that she feels bad about what happened with Steve, given there conversation in episode 8 or 9, when she apologies to some extent and talks to him about babysitting. Season 2 is also where I find we learn more about who Nancy is as a person, she is clearly motivated by a strong sense of justice and is highly pragmatic. She can be a bit cold at times, but ultimately she wants to help people and very clearly is doing her best with the tools that she has to navigate the world (I could also write a whole dissertation about how I think Nancy is neurodivergent, but that’s for another day).

Season 3s issues, I think build off of statements that we see in season 2 about her being a bit cold and unfeeling. The main point of contention people have with Nancy in season 3 is the fight she has with Jonathan about working at the Hawkins Post. To refresh the memory of anyone who doesn’t remember, she and Jonathan get into this huge fight after they get fired from the paper because they investigated a story after explicitly being told not to. Jonathan is frustrated because he needs this job to help provide for his family and Nancy is upset because he doesn’t seem to understand the gravity of the sexism Nancy was experiencing. First things first, I think an important think to note about Jonathan and Nancy’s roles at the office is that they are being treated totally differently. We have multiple scenes of Jonathan working in a dark room developing photos, now we have no idea if he took those photos but he’s at least doing work related to something he’s interested in. Whereas Nancy is a glorified secretary and is being harassed (that may not be the right word, forgive me) by the senior staff who are all men. I think this another contributing factor to their argument, as Jonathan is actually doing work that he enjoys (it may be more in the grunt work side but it’s leaps above what Nancy is doing), so I don’t think he fully understands her perspective and why her desire to chase this story burns as strong as it does. I understand the arguments that Nancy has a degree of privilege where she can risk this job and not be financially burdened, but I also feel like a lot of people ignore Jonathan’s privilege in being a straight, white man who is immediately placed in a higher and cushier position then she is and how that may skew his perspective.

Nancy, is a really strong character in that she has layers and dimensions and is a very human character. She also had traits that if she were a man people would applaud her for. But her character often gets boiled down her love triangle that she’s been forced into by the producers (despite the fact that I know Natalia Dyer is dying to talk about anything else and ships Ronance, which is Queen behavior). And her fe bad moments are often over exaggerated by fans of Jonathan and Steve in an attempt to make one of them the better boyfriend and uplift their characters. Overall, I think that a lot of people have this fundamental misunderstanding of Nancy that is rooted in misogyny and while there are valid criticisms of the character it is often overblown in this weird attempt to uplift male characters that don’t need uplifting.

[chaseadrian]

i will send some for robin too but i have to hear your thoughts on nancy for these

14 15 21 22

nancy my girl!!

14. best storyline they had

nancy’s season 2 arc was amazing, she grew so much between coming to terms with the cover up and ramifications of barb’s death. not that she ever really got over it, vecna still uses it against her in s4 obviously because i think it’ll always haunt her, but recognizing that her relationship with steve was keeping her in that awful mental state not necessarily by any fault of his, just because she was growing as a person and had more guilt and unfinished business with the situation than he did. i think she really took more charge in s2, and i love that she found common ground with jonathan and they were both nervous little weirdos before they got together is just so sweet.

15. worst storyline they had

i think her storyline in s4 was kinda weak and not as developed as it could be. they followed the reporter route that really took form in s3, and she had much more to do in the last two episodes of the season, but overall i don’t like miscommunication as a trope and it doesn’t entirely make sense that nancy and jonathan wouldn’t be forthcoming about their feelings. jonathan i understand not being the first to broach the subject, but i really think nancy would be more rash about the weirdness between them. and also hated whatever they were doing with her and steve. her storyline with robin was really the best part of s4 nancy

21. when do you think they were at their happiest?

s3, probably. she had the asshole dudes to deal with, but i think she felt really capable in season three and like she had a real future in the work she was doing. regardless of obstacles, she kept pushing and i think her ability to persevere and not just give in (like her mother did in settling down) made her really proud of herself and set the tone for how she started in s4

22. when do you think they were at their lowest

early s2 definitely, just the scene at the halloween party is more than enough to show where she’s at mentally. she was just overwhelmed with guilt, and her life almost entirely revolved around barb and her parents and the issue she had with hiding things from them.

send me characters & numbers!

[nancyqueerler]

Say it with me everyone!! This one goes out to the Duffers!

STOP RUINING YOUR SUPPOSED BELOVED CHARACTERS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. WHY ARE YOU LETTING EVERYTHING GO DOWNHILL. NANCY DOES NOT WANT 6 KIDS AND A DAMN RV WITH STEVE. IT HAS BEEN CLEAR SINCE S1. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS 'Jonathan who?' BULLSHIT IN THE SCRIPT. WHAT THE HELL MAN. GOD.

You don't build up j*ncy for three whole seasons just to toss it all out the window when she and Steve got to be in the same group for (1) season. Steve didn't say he wasn't in love with Nancy anymore just for that to be tossed out the window too. Nancy didn't call bullshit on her relationship with Steve just for her to swoon over his nuclear family fantasy.

They didn't breakup and grow substantially into themselves afterwards just for them to get back together like the literal death of her best friend doesn't stand between them (among various other things). You didn't cut up the scenes of Barb's death and st*ncy having intercourse, jumble them together during the Vecna scene to emphasize Nancy's guilt, just for Nancy to think that six kids with Steve doesn't sound all that bad right after. Barb didn't say 'This isn't you' just for Nancy to have second thoughts about breaking up with Steve. Murray didn't say 'You're afraid of who you really are' just for her to get back with Steve. Nancy didn't say 'Screw that' in regards to having that suburban picket-fence life her mother has just for you to say screw that to Nancy's entire arc.

Steve and Nancy could've been such good friends. They could have put their relationship behind themselves and been such a good duo. The Duffers suck ass.

[willandmichael]

I wasn't gonna say anything until the last tag. It is literally called "for you". The fact that you get mad over that says too much. Also, if he doesn't love her romantically, why does he kiss her? Why doesn't he break up with her? And don't say "because he's scared" or "because he just doesn't know it yet" or anything like that. Also, I didn't try to start drama. I am allowed to post whatever the fuck I want on MY BLOG.

I won't be suprised if you don't answer this. Good day.

you're bothered cause i can see u came straight from tiktok? lmao

"if he doesn't love her romantically why does he kiss her?"

because it's what he thinks it's right, that's mike's whole arc: he's trying to conform to society's standards. it's also a very heavy message in stranger things, especially in season 4..

forced conformity is killing the kids! since season one mike feels out of place: he's bullied, he's an outcast, he's a nerd. he gets physically hurt at school and emotionally hurt at home by his parents (especially ted's very pointed comments towards him).

mike is relentlessly bullied for hanging out and being friends with will, having homophobic comments thrown at him constantly (watch s1 again), then he finds this girl in the woods and becomes friends with her. everyone around him is saying he likes her and he has a crush on her, neither of them understand what they're doing in s1, mike and el had a brother-sister relationship they mistook as romance. "will you be like my brother?" this is a canonical line of dialogue, i'm not making it up. so mike and el get into this entanglement, mike loses her for a year had has to live with survivors guilt - he is paralleled to nancy losing barb and feeling guilty for her death. he says it himself, he wants to be needed by her or else he doesn't know what to do. his whole arc in s3 was to show that mike can't handle dating el and managing his friendship with will because he overcompensates his feelings. mike didn't outgrow dnd, he didn't outgrow his friends or his nerdy side, we see that in s4.. and then he goes back to hiding once he has to be with el again, he becomes a "shitty knockoff" because it's a FRONT! mike and el's excessive making out is NOT shown in a good light by the show at all, it's uncomfortable for everyone on screen and to the viewers. have you got my point yet? people date all the time without liking each other, because it's what society is telling them, because they think it's the right path to follow (hello? nancy's whole thing about not wanting this kind of life for herself???). IN CONCLUSION, MY own theory about mike is that he's a closeted boy who found himself stuck in a relationship he doesn't want. he was not the one to get back together with el, he had months to mend their relationship and he didn't. if el hadn't confessed and kissed him when she was leaving to cali they would not be dating at all again and would remain simply as friends. his confused face and open eyes when she kissed him should be telling enough.

also, "i didn't try to start any drama" YOU came into our tag with a terrible take and saying rather heavy stuff with the whole "mike is abusive" thing. and you're right, it's YOUR blog but tumblr is still a PUBLIC platform with a proper tagging system, no one wants to see anti byler posts on the byler tag.

you're trying to be so high and mighty with your "omg i bet you won't even answer this, you ignored my ask, i wonder why" lmfaoo do u think i'm a coward or something ? :/ i hadn't even seen your ask when i made that post. anyway, you don't have to agree with anything i say or other byler shippers say on here, stick to your boring straight ship and kindly leave us alone

[calzonekestis]

Let’s not understate the fact that Stranger Things has been going for 6 years and 4 seasons. That it’s Netflix’s flagship show, and is like so established as a Thing at this point.

Despite all the content in those four seasons - there are fans (myself included) who were like “ok but no, this forest scene between these two characters we never saw before prior to his episode is my favorite thing this show has ever put to film.”

Learning that both the actors consider it their favorite/the one they’re most proud of.

Like, the fact for Joe - it’s not the concert, or Eddie leading the bats away from Dustin and the gate and making a defiant last stand.

It’s the quiet moment where two people just Clicked. Took off their masks that they present to society and their peers and were just. They felt comfortable together, in that moment - because it was just them… and there was like something about each other…

Eddie wasn’t just a safe space for Chrissy, but she was one for him. Because he puts on a show all the time too, it’s just no one makes him feel like he has to. He chooses to so that no one else puts him in a little box, he decides to go out and write his own narrative. The Dungeon Master of it all, tbh.

The fact the Duffers consider it among their favorite scenes of the whole damn series - the fact that it wasn’t going to be a Thing and the characters weren’t fully formed until they cast Joe as Eddie and Grace as Chrissy and they brought their own ideas to the table in terms of their own characters and then how those characters would interact.

Like it must be humbling for the Duffers to admit, that one of their favorite scenes is ones that wasn’t anything to write home about until the actors improvised and improved and elevated so much of it. It makes them proud of their cast, but like. Speaks to how important that cast and finding the right people for the parts is.

Think about that. One of Duffers’ favorite scene is one that wasn’t meticulously planned to be remarkable or stand out. It’s quiet moment between two new characters - who we never have seen before and who at that point in the episode - in that scene - we are only just really getting to know.

The fact that it made them regret killing them both off, but like. That was the story, and there was no way to change it at that point. They were committed to it. They had already filmed Chrissy’s death scene, and there was really no way (fans will argue) to spare Eddie his planned fate.

So instead they just decided (or maybe Joe decided for them) “no, this is going to leave an impact on Eddie. This is going to be the thing that informs his entire character arc. What happens to her sets i motion everything that he does including including his own death where he stops running and goes out on his own terms. And yeah it’s sad that they both die, they both deserved better, but hey at least they’re together again.”

“It was just a drug deal.”

No, it was going to be just a drug deal. As initially conceived. Just like how Steve was going to be a predatory scumbag originally intended to die. In S1.

Things change. Things change because you cast an actor who is so endearing and charismatic and has a better sense of who the character is than even the writers.

I’ll just say it because it’s true - Eddie would not be the character y’all love if not for his character caring about Chrissy/being so moved by her loss/the circumstances. That informed everything he did the entire season.

And the fact he cared about Chrissy and she actually meant something to him… that’s all thanks to Grace.

The fact she was like “no, I think Chrissy is a cinnamon roll actually.”

Then Joe was like “shit, how could Eddie not have a crush on her?”

Eddie had survivor’s guilt, but it wasn’t just over a friendly acquaintance like Nancy had with Fred (and I know that’s also it’s own thing - because she didn’t witness the death and that also brings with it Barb PTSD of her being dismissive and then homie dying) but like.

No, Chrissy Cunningham mattered to Eddie Munson lmao. You may not like it, but it’s something you just can’t deny and expect to be taken seriously about.

Eddie Munson as we know him was only the character he was because of Joe.

Joe intentionally played Eddie with Chrissy on his conscience and in his heart the entire season.

He did that because he saw who Chrissy was, and in his own words, “it just made sense” to play it that way.

And Chrissy is only who she was thanks to Grace, so like.

If Eddie Munson is your favorite white boy of Summer ‘22, please know that you can thank @quirly for that bc it’s all indirectly on her.

Butterfly effect, y’all. 🦋

[white-knight]

Vecna’s Curse and Will Byers: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

I stg I really hope I’m not right about this but I’m putting it out there because maybe I’m just reading too much into it...

We know that people appear to only be able to escape Vecna’s curse with the help of music. For Victor Creel it was “Dream a Little Dream of Me” by Ella Fitzgerald, and for Max it was “Running Up that Hill” by Kate Bush.

A song we’ve been hearing since literally the second episode of season one is “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” by the Clash. We know that Noah Schnapp had to be rigged up on the harness that they use to do the levitation scenes with Vecna’s curse, and there have been images of him carrying a Walkman in his pocket. This song may have played into how Will managed to hide from the Demogorgon for so long while in the upside down in season 1.

I’m also certain that Will is gay (it’s been hinted at since the first season as well, with the names people called him in Hawkins) and that he’s going to come out to Mike (who is very certainly the object of his affections). This scene is going to be a tear-jerker and is very likely going to somehow involve Will’s painting or Vecna’s curse, or both.

The fear that I have concerns the way Vecna speaks to his victims. It’s very reminiscent of suicidal ideation. As someone who’s struggled with suicidal thoughts from a very young age, watching Max run out of the upside down to her friends hit me SO HARD. Vecna appears to grab hold of negative emotion, namely guilt (Fred’s guilt over the car crash, Max’s guilt over her relief that Billy is dead and unable to hurt her anymore, Nancy’s guilt over Barb’s death) and I’m certain that Will is going to be a huge target. Boy is traumatised, your honour.

Max’s general arc this season is reminiscent of depression, and her thoughts of El and Lucas and the party suggest that the song helped her feel needed and wanted and loved in her life, and gave her the strength to attack Vecna and escape. Will is clearly traumatised by the things that have befallen him as well, and appears to be struggling with issues of his own. 

I’m so terrified that Mike is going to rebuff Will’s admission of his feelings, and Will is going to spiral downwards. I’m seeing most of Finn Wolfhard’s acting choices and such as a conscious effort to make Mike seem like he’s struggling with his own sexuality but I’m scared that the Duffer brothers won’t go through with that storyline and Will will continue to just be miserable. He deserves more than that.

While Mike and Will having a beautiful moment where Mike admits his feelings too and there’s gay rainbows everywhere would be so wonderful, I’m seeing my theory also make sense narratively. It’s been said that Will’s saddest moment is in vol. 2. I’m really afraid that Vecna is going to snatch Will after Mike rejects him, and the song won’t be enough.

“Should I Stay or Should I Go?” is exactly the sort of thing that would be going through Will’s mind in that situation. And by admitting he’s gay and in love with Mike, he just alienated not only his crush but his best friend. Those memories of him with the party and El could be tainted from his point of view because he just ruined those relationships. And maybe he would decide to let Vecna have him, not because he’s a bad person, but because he’s tired of feeling so hopeless. Chrissy and Patrick managed to encounter Vecna several times before they were taken by him, but Fred walked right into him and only feebly put up a fight. There’s something to that struggle, a choice to fight or believe that Vecna is right, you are a bad person. (He’s absolutely projecting onto people and it gives me the chills he’s the worst.)

It would take Mike admitting that he’s also not straight, that he’s been grappling with these same kinds of feelings for a while now. That compassion and empathy that Mike has shown again and again for Will when no one is looking is what will ultimately have to bring him back, not just Jonathan’s song. I do think that Will is gay, and I think Mike is AT LEAST questioning where he stands and recognizing that his relationship with El is just kind of... weird.

I really hope that Will is able to beat Vecna’s curse when he gets cursed (because it’s almost certain he will) and he gets to have a happy ending of sorts. Maybe not all wish-fulfillment, but he finally gets to have a good day damn.

tldr; Duffer brothers please don’t kill Will Byers he deserves better (also if you touch Eddie I stg)

[fizzigigsimmer]

I have such an issue with the reframing of the Stancy relationship in S4. My thoughts below the cut. Spoilers for season 4, obvi.

I’m sad to say it, but I really hope they don’t continue the Steve/Nancy/Jonathan triangle with an eye to rekindle Steve & Nancy’s romance. It’s not because I prefer other ships either.To preface, this is not an anti-Nancy post. Up until season 2 I really liked Steve & Nancy as a pairing and had hoped they would be “endgame”. Then Billy happened, and as a character he is more interesting to me for lots of reasons (many of them personal) and the potential of his character and his chemistry with Steve is just more my cup of tea. But that doesn’t take away from what Steve and Nancy had, and could have again or my ability to enjoy them as a pair.

My issue is with the writers, and (from what I have seen) a lot of the audience as well, putting the burden of blame for their breakup on Steve’s immaturity back then. Because while it’s true that Steve was an asshole who needed a good “thump” on the head, it’s not true that those specific flaws were the unraveling of the relationship. At least not in totality. 

In part, yes. Absolutely. Everything Steve did leading up to the beginning of his redemption arc in S1 helped chip away at Nancy’s affections, but it was also made clear to us fairly early on that Nancy and Jonathan were drawn to one another. Steve was meant to be a foil to highlight all of Jonathan’s good qualities, and it was not going to be a shock to anyone when Nancy abandoned her puppy love with Steve for an obviously deeper connection. The writers decision to give Steve a redemption arc and further explore his character happened separately from Nancy’s planned romance with Jonathan. And that I think is where a lot of the problems start.

Nancy inspired Steve to try and be a better person and by the end of the first season Steve was already changing. He’d acknowledged his mistakes and had started to make amends. He’d already started down the path to becoming the man the audience loves today, and that we’re supposed to believe Nancy is looking at with new eyes.

But the only reason they aren’t still together is because Nancy didn’t love him. That’s reality. Nancy was infatuated with “King Steve” but spent season 1 building a more grounded connection with Jonathan. And after Steve’s many mistakes, she could have understandably broken up with him to be with Jonathan whom she’d clearly fallen for. She even later admitted to “waiting for him” to make a move.

When Jonathan didn’t come after her, Nancy chose to stay with Steve. That was the first nail in their coffin. Nancy, clearly no longer in love with Steve if she ever was in the first place, chose to settle with someone she new she didn’t want as much as someone else. That doesn’t make her a monster. She’s a teenager trying to figure herself out and deserves some grace, but it was still the wrong decision to make and unfair to Steve.

And I get that she was traumatized, and maybe after everything they went through she just needed to be with someone and thought she could make it work; but again still the wrong calls and something that I’d like to see the character recognize from an older, mentally healthier point of view. How it was unfair of her to turn her guilt and her pain over Barb’s death into knives of resentment, which she then hurled at someone who loved her in order to wound him - rather than just be honest with him and herself. Sis was not okay, and not in love with the man she was with.

The cherry on the cake of shit choices though was when she ran off with Jonathan and slept with him while her relationship with Steve hung in tatters. Not because of his, but HER immaturity. Steve was not the one bottling his feelings and struggling to figure out what he wanted. Steve wasn’t the one holding back from his partner who got drunk and then said all the shit he needed to say in exactly the worst way, and yet we still saw him putting forth the effort after both fights to try and communicate with her and work on their relationship.

Nancy never comes out and tells him about sleeping with Jonathan either. Nancy was not even the one to officially call off their relationship. That was Steve. He was the one who stepped up to the plate and told her (and the audience) that it was okay that she changed her mind about him and it was time to let go. Which is absolutely right. What was not right and definitely not okay, was how she handled things.

And while it always bothered me that the narrative never outright said that, I was willing to believe that the writers simply assumed we knew betraying your partner is wrong, and chose to put the focus on Steve’s growth... but now the writers seem to be retroactively saying with their whole chests, “nah it really is okay to betray your partner when your relationship hits the rocks”.

I’m not okay with the narrative ignoring Nancy’s mistakes and white gloving her flaws. It honestly just makes them look worse, because without seeing her acknowledge her role in the breakdown of her relationship with Steve it just looks to me like she is repeating a pattern. Her relationship gets rocky and then her eye wanders to the next person who makes her feel good. I know that’s not what they’re intending to put out there but oops, that’s what is out there.

Nancy left Steve because her heart was with someone else and she wanted to leave.She handled it badly and broke someone’s heart, and reaped no consequences for betraying her partner. Thems the facts.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

If you had to make a short wishlist for what you're hoping to see from each character's arc in S4, what would it be?

There are 13 characters in the main cast atm, 14 if you include Murray

Well, this is no small request. You're really doing this to me? Who counts as a main character, anyway? I guess if they are in the opening credits. I'll keep this short, maybe one sentence per character, going roughly from oldest to youngest.

Hopper: I want to see him reconcile with the past he's been hiding from.

Murray: He's feeling a lot of guilt over Alexei's death, so him helping Joyce find Hopper and thwarting the Russians may help him cope.

Joyce: I want to see more badass Detective Byers from Joyce, leading up to a successful rescue of Hopper.

Karen: Karen needs to realize that, while it may be too late for her, she can help ensure her kids chase their dreams, regardless of what society says they're supposed to do.

Steve: I'd like to see Steve come to realize that he's the happiest he's ever been even though he's single because he's found people who like him for him.

Robin: I'd love to see Robin feel free to be herself, come to appreciate Nancy, and accept that she also now has several children.

Nancy: I think we all know that Nancy is going to be a badass again, and possibly make her first new friend (Robin) since Barb died, especially now that we know Robin used to be friends with Barb, too.

Jonathan: The guy finally has a BFF, and I'm totally down for that,

Will: "Fuck you, dad, I'm gay!"

Mike: I imagine he'll be very confused about his feelings, so he'll either very soft (with Will and El) or very belligerent (with everyone else) because of it. I think he needs a heart-to-heart with someone to tell him his feelings are ok.

El: I hope she's able to continue her discovery of who she is without being controlled, and I think we may get some insight into buried trauma from her time at the Lab.

Max: She seems to have some issues stemming from Billy’s death, so I think that will be a huge part of her season arc. She may now be dealing with Neil’s abuse now that Billy is gone, and we might find out that he willingly accepted it to keep her safe from his dad.

Dustin: He needs to learn that sometimes curiosity doors need to stay closed. I think his need to "For Science!" things may get the Party in trouble again.

Lucas: Given that Lucas seems absent in the photos of the Party that we do have, it seems like he may be off doing his own thing. Maybe he feels the need to be cool or normal, so he splits off from them, but I imagine he figures out who his real friends are before it's over.

Erica: I think she embraces her inner nerd, but shows that it doesn't mean you can't also be cool, showing her brother that he's an idiot for leaving his friends.

Edit: Added Max because I’m an idiot and forget her. There’s just so many characters!

[kaypeace21]

What’s ur theories or what you want to see throughout season 3 for stranger things and what can you see for will for his arc

I literally would not be able to discuss every s3 theory I have in one post XD. But I can specify what theories/hopes I have for Will’s story arc in s3.

1) I want Will’s (not supernatural) PTSD to be addressed, as well as he deep-seeded  abandoment issues(caused by Lonnie), and low self-esteem to be addressed. He probably blames himself for Lonnie leaving, and causing his family’s financial issues (which will only worsen because of the new mall). Not to mention Will probably blames himself for Bob’s death- the only cannon romantic love interest in Joyce’s life, since Lonnie. Will clearly has a low self esteem and when people ‘leave him’ he blames himself entirely. A good indicator of this, was when Jonathan says he has friends. And Will is confused and says … 

This in itself is extremely telling of how Will views himself. After s1 despite all the kids, teens, and adults doing everything they could to save him (risking their lives to do so) he still doesn’t understand why any of them actual would want to hang around him- he doesn’t see ‘his appeal- his worth’. He doesn’t like himself . He sees himself as a burden, just like his dad perceived him. And because of his abandonment issues, and somewhat iffy social skills, he probably assumes in both s1-2 they saved him out of obligation. And because of his abandonment issues,  he’s constantly feeling like a burden and always over-apologizing.  And since Will already feels like a burden, because of his dad, his PTSD,  and the upside-down incident he’s constantly apologizing .There was a reason Will didn’t tell Joyce what he saw in s1! He yells “I’m sorry “ and snuggles into his mom when he’s trying to explain the mindflayer to Hopper and Joyce. And Joyce says something indicative to his character (before anything supernatural occurs).

Joyce: “You feeling any better? Will?”

Will: “Huh? Yeah… Sorry.”

Joyce: “Hey… what’d we talk about, huh? You gotta stop it with the sorry’s.”

Will : “Yeah, sorry. I mean… yeah, I know.”

This illustrates that Joyce has already discussed the fact that Will over-apologizes . But Will still does it very often, even after these 2 separate discussions. 

I think in s3 we’ll see a cumulative reaction to how Will’s experiences have shaped him in a very sad and problematic way. Dustin starts hanging out with Steve, Lucas has a girlfriend, Jonathan will probably be too busy trying to financially support the family/dating Nancy, and to top it all off he then has a fight with Mike about not being “ kids anymore”. I think Mike will lash out, but Will will take the argument much harsher than he usually would (because all of his insecurities are piling up one after the other).So through Will’s perception, he just feels alone and like he’s being abandoned all over again, by the people who he thought would never do this to him.

2) Will’s destroys Castle Byers (Theory). I actually predicted here, that Will would destroy Castle Byers(right after his fight with Mike)- before the track list even came out. I thought this would be the case, because of Castle Byers symbolic importance. Which is why hopefully it’s Will,  not some other force that destroys it.

Will uses castle Byers as the one place he feels safe while in the upside down, or just on a daily basis. But it’s still a reminder of his deep-seeded abandonment issues. The day Will’s dad left , Jonathan and Will built Castle Byers all night in the pouring rain. Jonathan saying “we just had to finish it no matter what”. Will was the one who made-up Castle Byers in his imagination, and drew it, before Lonnie even left. He drew the sign “all friends welcome”, because with Lonnie around he never felt ‘welcome’ in his own home. So then when Will goes to Castle Byers in s3 at night in the pouring rain … he’s probably thinking that Mike (and his friends) are going to abandon him just like his dad did! 

Will wants time to stop, to regain the childhood he lost, but he can’t cry about it now -since he’s officially a teenager . And everyone else is moving on. He feels like he’s being abandoned in a “ teenage wasteland”

So I think Will may in a fit of rage destroy Castle Byers (probably using his fire powers). Similar to how El  had a psychic fit and accidentally destroyed all the windows in the cabin.

However unlike the El scene, it quickly turns into something empowering.We’d be sad. But this in itself would be Will at least trying to symbolically move on from his father’s influence, and trying to overcome his abandonment issues. Plus s3 is all about growing up- and if Will destroys the symbol of his childhood-abandonment-issues it would symbolically indicate his change in character as he accepts that he’s now a teenager . As well as how he’ll refuse to be a victim ever again (from his dad, the mindflayer, the bullies, etc)!

 Rain in itself can signify “purification of the soul”. I don’t think all of his issues will magically go away- but it’ll be the start of his journey of acceptance & self-love.

3) I want: El to find Will in the woods right after he destroys Castle Byers.

I’ve described in a previous post that based on the symbolism and iconography of the show why Will & El represent Yin and Yang , read more here. One of the many symbols of Yin and Yang is - Yin being representative of feminity/water & Yang being representative of masculinity/fire.

Will is always referenced with fire in both the comic and show . He drew his wizard character shooting fireballs in s1 and in the first ep he rolled the dice and yelled “fireball”, he had the ‘shadow monster ‘ exorcised out of him with fire, and in the comic he shoots a demogorgan and yells “fireball”. El’s element or ‘substance would be the opposite of fire, “water” - the sensory deprivation tanks are filled with water, the void floor is covered in water, she escaped the lab through a drainage pipe, looked at a reflection of herself in a puddle and cased ripples in it using her powers,  in s3 is shown sinking in water and falling out of a vanishing tub, etc.

Yin (water) and Yang (fire) have to  be “in perfect balance” (if one’s presence is stronger than the other)  “catastrophes will occur” and there will be an “imbalance between the cosmic and human realms”.  And throughout the 1st two seasons that’s exactly what happened! If El was shown prominantely then Will was gone or unconscious (or vice versa). There is a symbolic tear between the real world and upside down (because of this imbalance). And having them both be there - as a lit fire of castle byers burn, and rain pours would indicate -that their both starting to find balance. And that they’ll finally team up because of the supernatural threat.

Not to mention the last time Will was at his lowest and went to Castle Byers who found him and even read aloud his mantra/ sign of “all friends welcome”? Right, El!

 Not to mention in the very 1st episode, the boys went out in the rain to find Will, but found El instead (when she was also at her most scared and isolated). 

So it would be ! PURE POETIC CINEMA! DAMIT! They should do it! (El’s house is even in the woods, it all makes sense)! XD

4. I want : El lying for Will

Millie said about s3, that the biggest lie was that “friends don’t lie” ... “everybody lies”. El is still learning what it’s like to ‘be a person in the real world’ and understanding the complexity of familial, romantic, and platonic relationships. And although it’s admirable to never want to lie- it’s much more complicated in the real world. Will (who has very little control of his powers) will probably want to keep it a secret- afraid of how his friends perception of him will change if they knew. So El obliges and keeps Will’s secret- her first lie. 

5) I want: Will’s family dynamics evolving

I want to see the love Will has for his mother and brother (and vice versa). But I also want to see the growing pains involved with Will becoming a teenager, striving for independence, and dealing with the supernatural threat and his clear mental health issues. I want to see Joyce, Jonathan, and Will all grow as people- together. -Also Hopper & Will scenes

6) I want: Will to lash out and get angry

Will constantly fears abandonment and because of this he almost never lashes out- he mostly keeps everything bottled up inside. And regardless of whether it’s justified or not- he deserves to have an emotional outburst- where he SCREAMS about all of his frustrations.

7) I want El and Will talking about /experiencing their shared trauma & how they feel about El being the one who first opened the gate

I want to see happy moments for El and Will. But I also want to see El and Will in normal real-life scenarios/situations in s3. Making it more obvious the trauma of their abusive father figures still affects them deeply, and how their PTSD, quiet nature, powers, and the fact that they never had real-childhoods, causes them to feel more socially isolated and depressed than their peers. As they perceive themselves as nothing but burdens and “freaks” to their loved ones , since they’ll never feel “normal”. But they’ll learn to rely on each other.

-Plus how does Will feel about El opening the gate? El in s1 called herself a “monster” and when she couldn’t find Barb and Will, she felt so much guilt- she had to go to the bathroom to cry. Since then Will has had years of his life stolen, gotten Ptsd, possessed, burned alive, (technically) became a murderer, and was forever mutated (we’ll get to that last point later). So I’m just curious how they both feel about the whole ‘gate-situation’?

8) Byler scenes, and Will interacting more with all of his friends (and seeing the distinctions in all of those relationships and how Mike/Will’s dynamic differers from his other guy-friends, or even Will &Max’s friendship). And just having strong platonic relationships. And (not platonic) byler dynamics. I also want to see how he interacts with strangers/bullies in ‘normal’ situations.

9) Theory: I already explained here, that Will, will have a ‘dark phoenix’ moment at the mall releasing his very own mindflayer to protect his friends (right as the US government comes in to see everything).

10/11) Will and El are kidnapped by the government -theory here. However, El willing exposes her identity in order to go with Will and protect him - theory here.

*gifs/pics not mine

[the-lazy-cat-bakes-souffles]

Okay I really need to talk about this scene because it has always absolutely screamed Nancy having deeply repressed queer feelings, and it makes so much more sense than what seems to be the writer’s intention here: framing Nancy’s complex arc of self-discovery through… which boy she chooses. That’s such a weak approach as not only is it shallow and pretty sexist, it’s also not what her character arc has ever truly been about at all.

Her loveless relationship with Steve does represent conformity and adhering to societal expectations, which is repeatedly and explicitly highlighted in the text of the show, especially the scene where Nancy talks to Jonathan about her fear of ending up like her parents while inadvertently making the same mistakes that led them to where they are now.

But her ultimately rejecting that and breaking the cycle she was so afraid of becoming trapped in doesn’t come about because of her budding romance with Jonathan. The catalyst and primary driving force for her development in the first two seasons is Barb, her queer-coded girl best friend. The last thing Barb ever says to her is “Nance, this isn’t you.” And those words haunt Nancy in every subsequent episode; they’re the spectre of all her denial and inner conflict.

It’s Barb’s disappearance that prompts Nancy to begin to forge her own path and push back against what Robin describes as “the Hawkins monster” in her novel and podcast: the stifling and destructive expectations of small town 1980s America, particularly those imposed upon a teenage girl of the time.

It’s Barb’s death and Nancy’s intense guilt and grief over it that leads her to break up with Steve and pursue justice for her friend, in doing so leading to her formative encounter with Murray and the above scene. Stemming from all of this, she also develops her passion for investigation and journalism, and with it an insatiable curiosity and desire to truly rebel against oppressive power structures, which has become an integral part of the character.

Jonathan certainly plays a crucial role in Nancy’s development, he encourages and supports (and occasionally challenges) her on this journey towards stepping away from who she thinks she’s supposed to be and embracing who she is. He also represents nonconformity as a contrast to Steve to an extent. But Jonathan in himself has never been the answer to the lingering question hanging over Nancy in her arc of self-actualisation and acceptance. In all three seasons her character trajectory has been propelled by something independent of that.

So what is the answer? What is the thematic opposite of the person Nancy started off trying so hard to be before she realised that it was all just… bullshit? What is the antithesis of the vapid faux-rebel girl who dated the most popular guy in school out of a sense of obligation? What is she really so afraid of accepting about herself? Nancy has always been intensely repressed as a character, which is of little wonder given her upbringing, and that repression extending to her sexuality would only be natural.

This isn’t to say that it’s the only valid possibility of course. Nancy’s growth can’t possibly be reduced to one factor any more than it can be reduced to one person. But it would add another organic and meaningful layer of depth. It would make perfect sense thematically as a further exploration of her wrestling with her identity and her rejection of societal norms, limitations, authority and suppression of the truth. It would also feed beautifully into her blossoming friendship with Robin and their roles as foils of each other; exact opposites on the surface who are revealed to be kindred spirits with similar dreams and sensibilities.

Maybe it’ll forever exist in the realm of subtext, but the reading of Nancy being queer is one that has a firm grounding in her arc in the show and its themes, and if the Duffer brothers ever were to go there, I think it would make for an incredibly moving and impactful story.

this scene is hitting different after the possibility of ronance happening this season

[that-thing-that-feeling]

I think it would have been a good character growth and learning experience for there to have been consequences to the Byers family so that Nancy could learn she was being cavalier and selfish in her quest to assuage her guilt about Barb. It bothers me that she’s not thinking about Will at all.

Nancy’s motivations go beyond assuaging her guilt,though; that plotline is triggered when she becomes alarmed that the Hollandsare selling their house basically to pay for an investigator and they say they’re finally hopeful that they’ll find Barb alive. It’s then that she realizes shehas to do something. Some of it might come from her pain; but it’s aimed attrying to help the Hollands with their pain by giving them some closure andalso trying to hold the people responsible for Barb’s death accountable. Neitherof those motivations (including trying to provide closure for herself) areselfish.  

The plotline, however, suffers for a lot reasons, but onecrucial one is: the writers never let Jonathan and Nancy discuss the pros andcons or risks of the plan. Which is all the more confusing since Jonathanclearly has doubts, presumably over Will, and you see him have thesedoubts throughout–when she calls the Hollands, again in the car. You get thesense from reaction shots that he’s conflicted, but the writers never let himvoice what precisely he’s conflicted about. That conflict could have fitwithin a broader arc for him for the season if they had given himone—it feels like jonathan’s unsaid problem in s2 is how to balance having hisown life and being there for other people (like nancy) with how to still bethere just as much for his family. That would have been interesting to explore more directly. I think something like that could have comeout, for instance, if the writers let Jonathan and Nancy have an actualconversation in the car after they see the gate, b/c Jonathan seems pretty concernedby it, and that would have been new information you’d expect them todiscuss.

I still think that taking down the lab was a noble idea; thelab was awful. But I feel like it would leave complicated effects that we’d see in season3, ranging from, does the lab fully go away? what power really replaces it and is it even worse? alsocould the government find out jonathan and nancy were involved in taking itdown and could that place them in danger? how could any of those things tieinto some of the hawkins post investigations, etc.? 

[postguiltypleasures]

My peak TV Journey *Stranger Things 4*

Stranger Things 3 left something of a bitter taste. I mostly enjoyed watching it, especially, but by the end it felt so much less than the sum of its parts, the emotional beats, especially around Hopper’s story, landed wrong. The Mind Flayer as a villain was boring. If anything it highlighted how boring the handling of the ensemble was. I almost didn’t watch ST4.

And then I found out that Kate Bush song “Running Up That Hill (A Deal With God)”would be important to the plot, and as a long time Kate Bush fan, I was compelled to watch.

It was a much stronger season than the past two, but hurt by both the weaknesses of previous seasons, and the supersizing of some episodes. As an example of the former, characters on screen found the Mind Flayer much more impactful than I did as a viewer. As my post from after season three says, I thought of the plot as a variation of a zombie plot that would have been more affective if the victims included more of the main cast other than Billy, who mostly was already there to be menacing so his transition was lacking in emotional power. I wasn’t that interested in how the Mind Flayer added to the mythology of The Upside Down, which was to illuminate that most life there is part of a hive mind. So if a person touches something from there, everything there knows it. (Some of my misdirected critique was because I spent the season more focused on what films from the 1980-90s was being referenced.) However, I can’t feel too bad about missing that as this season they seemed need to underline this information by having characters remind each other of the hive mind every ten minutes in the later episodes. That may have been necessary cutting between about five groups of characters, but it also highlighted how hard it was to keep momentum in these semi balanced stories.

Now onto the good parts.

It gave at least two characters the best plots they have ever had.

First is Nancy, who I have pointed out before is my favorite character. After the first season, my belief that the show could be kind of subversive was based entirely on her arc. The girl who parties and has sex, but is aware of her surroundings and survives. I’ve given up on thinking the show is in anyway subversive of the films and books that inspired it, but Nancy still drives a good story. She has a strong investigative drive that is partially inspired by her guilt and trauma over Barb’s death. ST2 focused too much on the latter and ST3 on the former. It was well balanced in season four in a way that it hadn’t been before. She also developed a delightful rapport with Robin, the scene interviewing Victor Creel was great. I don’t really mind the revisiting of the love triangle she’s the center.

Eleven also got her best plot this season. Too often as a character she felt like she existed for whatever the plot, and in particular the male characters around her needs. This seasons comparisons of being bullied in Hawkins Lab and bullied in her California middle school worked to give her an interior life and grounding. And the complication that she knows she can be dangerous. It’s the first time I really felt for her. And the ways that she was manipulated, then and now had a good coming of age feel. The climax would have been better if she and Max had interacted at all during the season earlier.

Max’s story arc was the most essential to this season. Her survivor’s guilt over the death of her step brother, and the stress that caused her family were well played. And “Running Up That Hill (A Deal with God)” was important because it’s her favorite song. I can completely believe in heroic pull it gave her! Also Max and Lucas are in my opinion, the only good romance on the show. They seem to enjoy each other’s company in a way that could exist without the plot, which I don’t really believe for any of the other couples. If there is any complaint about Max’s story, it’s how often she felt like a plot tool, instead of an active agent, especially towards the end.

Lucas’s story also starts at an interesting character place, pursuing basketball and popularity while other relationships crumble. How much of this was in response to Max shutting him out of her grief over Billy? How much is just not getting much out of his friendships with Dustin and Mike anymore? But then the plot really kicked in and his point of view was subjugated to plot needs. I didn’t hate the vigilante baseball players as much as some. They didn’t entirely work, but they kept things moving enough. And the fight between Lucas and Jason was tragic, if a little under cooked.

The Russian Gulag plot was less terrible than the quasi Russian invasion via a shopping mall plot from ST3. And after Hopper’s dickery in ST3, his torture and angst in ST4 felt like a much needed atonement.

I know the Joyce and Hopper romance is the plot, but I have to say how pleasantly surprised was by the Joyce/Murray road trip chemistry. It made a plot that could be a ridiculous drag kind of fun.

From looking around online, I know that the Jonathan becomes a stoner with his new friend Argyle plot was pretty polarizing. People who like it tend to point out that they know guys like Jonathan, who had to take on too much responsibility at too young an age and then kind of burn out. The show doesn’t really give the space for that kind of character arc. There are a lot of stoner jokes though. And I started to wonder, did the various ways in which my expectations for the show lowered between seasons make it easier to just enjoy the stoner jokes? They were silly. I took pleasure in them.

Within minutes of the first episode I was wishing death on Dustin. Starting the season pressuring his girlfriend to hack into the school’s grade database and improve his grade, then showing off via a “my girlfriend is better than yours” exchange with Mike was extremely off putting. I still kind of hope he doesn’t survive the whole series. But I can appreciate the way he helps explain the mythology as it’s discovered in a way that keeps the plot moving. I don’t love his little brother routine with Steve and Eddie, but I get why it is popular.

This season’s big bad from the Upside Down, Vecna/001/Henry Creel was much better than any of the previous. Being a person, instead of a blob or a more animal like creature gave a sense of direction where other seasons meandered. For all the ways Stranger Things claims to want to be epic and saga like, it’s strongest when closest to a short story. Vecna’s method of pursuing his victims played into this pretty well. (I also think this I acknowledge strength is partially why each season has a short lived, much loved breakout characters, while other surviving characters who’ve been there from the beginning can feel kind of useless.) The various subplots that added up to his back story all worked as scary short stories.

Going into the season the press focused on how the villain would be like Freddy Kruger and even include Kruger’s original actor, Robert Englund, in a key one episode role. Stranger Things has been making A Nightmare on Elm Street since the beginning with way the original Byers’s home was porous to the Upside Down. This helped the season feel more of its world than a pastiche of references. But the character design of Vecna felt more like Hellraiser’s Frank in his semi- resurrected form. In one of the flashbacks to his relationship with Eleven I thought I saw something like the puzzle box that opens the way to Hell in that film. It amused me to think of why this wouldn’t be referenced in the press. Some of it is Hellraiser is a less kid friendly film than A Nightmare on Elm St. but more to the point the most iconic character from the former is Pin Head, not Frank. Still, at least it’s building on its influences instead of getting stuck in pastiche as before.