#grrm and j rr tolkein

[cappymightwrite]

To think that Tolkien wrote an ending that's hopeful but also extremely sad. And ending that makes me melancholic without having to be grimdark.

And that's why he is the master still.

Hi! Sorry for the late response to this 😅 I've had it in my drafts half-written for a while, but better late than never...

Yes, I completely agree. And as we all know, GRRM has mentioned how he is very much a fan of Tolkein’s ending, in particular the scouring of the Shire (as much as he goes on and on about Aragorn’s tax policy, etc.): 

I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended Lord of the Rings. It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire—brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: “Why is this here? The story’s over?” But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge. [source]

But what is Tolkein’s ending based on? Where are these themes of "bittersweetness" in Lord of the Rings drawn from? Tolkein's pal and collegue C. S. Lewis once commented that:

If we insist on asking for the moral of the story, that is its moral: a recall from facile optimism and wailing pessimism alike, to that hard, yet not quite desperate, insight into Man's unchanging predicament by which heroic ages have lived. It is here that the Norse affinity is strongest: hammer-strokes but with compassion.*

*As usual, academic citations will be listed at the end.

Elaborating on this statement, Gloriana St. Clair adds that "the concept of fate in Northern works, the need for courage, a conception of evil, the tragedy of mortality, the doom of the immortals, and the paradox of defeat are themes common to Northern literature and The Lord of the Rings." She goes on to note that "heroic ages have lived through courage, and courage is one of the great lessons of The Lord of the Rings." Likewise, one could argue the same of ASOIAF, because, as stated by Wyman Manderly:

"[...] not every man has it in him to be Prince Aemon the Dragonknight or Symeon Star-Eyes, and not every woman can be as brave as my Wylla and her sister Wynafryd [...]" – ADWD, Davos IV

And yet, we do have courageous figures in ASOIAF — case in point, the Manderly sisters — just as in LoTR, because courage is important. Far more important than pain and suffering. In all its bittersweetness, despite everything, it is important and worth upholding... even if things change, even if you can never be what you once were. Because "evil in The Lord of the Rings" and ASOIAF "is just as complex as courage is." That's why we have the bitter with the sweet. Indeed, what Tolkein (a professor of Anglo-Saxon Studies) says of Beowulf could equally apply to Aragorn and others, and in turn could be said of many of GRRM's characters:

He is a man, and that for him and many is sufficient tragedy [...] It is the theme in its deadly seriousness that begets the dignity of tone: lif is læne: eal scæceð leoht and lif somod [Life is transitory: light and life together hasten away].

In Tolkein's view, and in the view of the Old Icelandic saga writer, a person's courage becomes more worthy in spite of apparent hopelessness. E.g. in Njáls saga, the author values Njáll's sons' decision to go into their father's house despite knowing that their attackers will more than likely burn them alive there. Indeed, as noted by Marjorie J. Burns, "an important aspect of Tolkien's borrowing from the North is his attachment to the Nordic world view, to the Nordic emphasis on imminent or threatening destruction, a destruction which, in Norse mythology, appears to be in motion even at the dawn of creation, with Black Surt sitting in the fire realm, Muspell, 'already waiting for the end' and the Frost Giant Ymir, 'evil from the first,' oozing from his armpits a sweat that gives form to humankind." And we can see that kind of sentiment present in the fight against the Others and the Long Night, which I theorise draws a lot from descriptions of the Fimbulvetr and later Ragnarök in Norse mythology. In both Norse mythology, and in LoTR, you get a vivid sense of life cycles, "with an awareness that everything comes to an end, that, though Sauron may go, the elves will fade as well."

So, likewise, in ASOIAF the threats of ice and fire will be defeated but there will be a cost. The Starks will reunite and rebuild their home but there will have been a cost: those they lost along the way and the trauma they had to go through to reach this ending. It is sad, you're right, but just as you noted, that doesn't mean it isn't entirely devoid of hope, or that hope and happiness take a backseat. Because like my earlier comments on the importance of courage, hope arguably becomes more admirable and precious despite all the hurt that has gone before. In the Gylfaginning section of the Prose Edda we have this discussion on the aftermath of Ragnarök:

52: Then Gangleri asked, “What will be after heaven and earth and the whole world are burned? All the gods will be dead, together with the Einherjar and the whole of mankind. Didn’t you say earlier that each person will live in some world throughout all ages?”

And Third replied, “There will be, at that time, many good places to live. So also there will be many evil ones. It is best to be in Gimle in heaven. For those who take pleasure in good drink, plenty will be found in the hall called Brimir. It stands at the place Okolnir [Never Cold]. There is likewise a splendid hall standing on Nidafjoll [Dark Mountains]. It is made of red gold and is called Sindri [Sparkling]. In this hall, good and virtuous men live. [...] 

Like in LoTR, losses have occured, major ones in fact, like the deaths of both Þórr and Óðinn — an ending to the old ways of living. And I think the conclusion to ASOIAF will have a similar reflective tone. The bittersweetness in the above passage is best summed up by the observation that whilst there will be "many good places to live [...] so also there will be many evil ones." The Long Night and the Others might be vanquished, the despots deposed, but inevitably hardships will come again, just like the Long Night happened once before, and is about to happen again, yet still... we find reasons to keep living.

53: Then Gangleri asked, “Will any of the gods be living then? Or will there be anything of the earth or the sky?”

High said, “The earth will shoot up from the sea, and it will be green and beautiful. Self-sown acres of crops will then grow. Vidar and Vali survive, as neither the flood nor Surt’s fire destroyed them, and they will inhabit Idavoll, the place where Asgard was earlier. To there will come Thor’s sons Modi and Magni, and they will have Mjollnir with them. Next Baldr and Hod will arrive from Hel. They will all sit together and talk among themselves, remembering mysteries and speaking of what had been, of the Midgard Serpent and the Fenriswolf. Then they will find in the grass the gold playing pieces which the Æsir had owned. [...]

“In a place called Hoddmimir’s Wood, two people will have hidden themselves from Surt’s fire. Called Lif [Life] and Leifthrasir [Life Yearner], they have the morning dew for their food. From these will come so many descendents that the whole world will be inhabited. [...]

“There is something else that you will find amazing. The sun will have had a daughter no less beautiful than she, and this daughter will follow the path of her mother [...]”

I mean... if the above description isn’t "a dream of spring" after a Fimbulvetr [Extreme Winter], then I don’t know what is! In the Gylafinning account of the aftermath of Ragnarök, like in the ending of LoTR, there is "victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory." This is "the kind of tone [George] will be aiming for." So, in a way... I kind of know how ASOIAF ends, because I know how LoTR ends, and perhaps more crucially, I know how the Gylfaginning ends:

A "green and beautiful" springtime after an extreme winter.

Notable loss, but also survival — Vidar and Vali are notably the sons of Óðinn, so you have this new generation taking over, which has been described as an allegory for the conversion to Christianity... but that's besides the point here.

The new powers will pick up the mantle of rulership ("the gold playing pieces") and will inhabit (and rebuild?) a notable place of previous power — if GRRM is using this Norse material as a big influence... could it be that this translates into forming a Great Council at Harrenhal as @agentrouka-blog has suggested?

"They will all sit together and talk among themselves, remembering mysteries and speaking of what had been, of the Midgard Serpent and the Fenriswolf" — if that doesn't sound like a council...

From Life and Life Yearner will come many descendents — Gee, I wonder who will be tasked with that? I wonder whose foreshadowing matches up with themes of regeneration and restoration, with desires for love and family?

"The sun will have a daughter no less beautiful than she, and this daughter will follow the path of her mother" — Again, themes of new powers taking over, descendents, etc., though perhaps more specifically alluding to the Young and More Beautiful Queen prophecy 👀👀👀 It depends on who we interpret as the sun in this equation... I can think of someone who fits in pretty well...

But in conclusion, to quote the Eddic poem Skírnismál, "fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago." This is the Northern spirit that Tolkien takes for the end of The Lord of the Rings notes Burns. In other words, "endings are inevitable, change will always come, and evil is never fully deposed." But likewise, neither is hope and courage ever fully extinguished. "The best that any of us can do is simply that: our best, and do it against all odds, having left our hearths and our comforts for the sake of ourselves and the world." So, we can learn a huge amount from Tolkein's ending and the Gylfaginning in regards to the probable conclusion of ASOIAF, and it's why I'm never in doubt about what "bittersweet" means. It's all laid out for us to see 😉

Thanks for the ask! I kinda just rambled on, but I hope it made sense what I was getting at 😅 any excuse to talk about Norsey things...

Academic Sources:

Burns, Marjorie J., "J. R. R. Tolkien and the Journey North," Mythlore: A A Journal of J. R. R. Tolkein, C. S. Lewis, Charles Williams, and Mythopoeic Literature, (1989), 4(15).

Lewis, C. S., "The Dethronement of Power" in Tolkein and the Critics, ed. by Neil D. Issacs and Rose A. Zimbardo. Notre Dame: Notre Dame University Press, 1968.

St. Clair, Gloriana, "An Overview of the Northern Influences on Tolkein's Works", Mythlore: A Journal of J. R. R. Tolkein, C. S. Lewis, Charles Williams, and Mythopoeic Literature, (1996), 2(21).

Tolkein, J. R. R., Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics. London: British Academy, 1937.