#google is telling me it’s an indigenous group in the balkans

[aceforwhatevenisthis]

Bună ziua, Ace! It is very nice to see a fellow Aromanian on Tumblr. Keep up the good work, my proud Vlach!

i’m ?????????

i’m a hispanic american

[isaacsapphire]

Alright, taking it from the top.

The phrases "back to Europe" and "back to Africa" are inseparable from the concept of "land back" in the mind of @tragicallyphosphorescent , so anyone asking about why they don't hear "back to Europe" more in the US, and wondering if it's a thing in South Africa must be misunderstanding Land Back. Alright. You do know that "back to Africa" was a movement among American-Americans a while back, right?

I'll add a link here to the previous Tumblr post that refered to Land Back and made it seem relivent to taxes.

I'm old enough to remember the Bosnian Genocide/War/"UN" deployment and that the main takeaway for most folks was that the competing ethnic claims of the Balkans are a hornets nest that it's pointless for the First World nations to stick their dicks in, because it's a tangled mess that's not going to be untangled in our lifetimes.

You yourself freely said that some ethnicities are somewhat recent somewhat intentional constructions, and I've already clarified that I don't think all ethnicities are recent constructions.

I said exactly nothing about Arminians before you showed up, and honestly before you started self-identifying as an "Indigenous Armenian" I had no idea that anyone considered Armenians to belong to the Indigenous category. Where I live, Armenians are generally considered merely a group of White people who claim Oppressed status on account of the whole genocide thing, similar to Jews, and like them get very little traction with Social Justice advocates using that argument, to the degree where I have unfortunately witnessesed discussions among American Social Justice Activists questioning whether it was ontologically possible for the Armenian genocide to have occurred, given that they considered the Armenians White and the Turks Muslim PoC! That's the framework you are, from my experience, speaking from within by endorsing Left anarchist racial thought, so it seems a surprising position for an Armenian to take from a USAian perspective. But America is not the world, and getting a broad international perspective was the point of this.

Okay, so your definition of "Indigenous" explicitly is not exclusive to "coloniser" so that's one possible definition eliminated. And apparently being local is insufficient to not be a colonizer, which you have already established means that immigrants from the Global South have a moral right to move to your country. Really, really not clear what you are using as your definition for Indigenous.

Yeah, I'm aware that a lot of borders don't match the territory of ethnic groups. This is frequently considered a cause of racial tension and international conflict and so bad in retrospect, which then leads to ethnostates as a proposed solution, usually while someone is engaging in some ethnic cleansing or invasion. It's not usually respond to with a proposal to end all borders, because that's going to impinge on your ability to maintain control of "your" land if your land is in any way an appealing or desirable place.

I am very turned around with your definitions of colonizer and indigenous. Modern Egyptians are colonized colonizers, but Ancient Egyptians were Indigenous despite being colonizers.

Really enjoying you trying to say we shouldn't talk about Native Americans and that you don't know what Land Back means in North American while you continue to tell me what Land Back means to all indigenous people, from your perspective as an anarchist.

Yeeeeah, so I googled the site you pulled that quote from, and I don't think you read all of it, or really any of it. Not really sure why you would quote the part about what Land Back means to the Indigenous to a presumed non-Indigenous person as the "meaning" of Land Back where there was a section on what it meant for non First Nations folks. Also, no reason you'd know this as a European, but the underlying legal situation is significantly different for Native Americans/First Nations in Canada vs the United States, and different tribes within the United States have substantially different legal and financial situations.

It is absolutely my business if someone wants to change the system of government and economics where I live.

Wait, are you seriously trying to tell me there aren't immigrants in Europe? That there aren't pro immigration politicians in Europe? That's a pretty significant statement, and huge if true. I would appreciate supporting info and some explanations of the reasons why I keep seeing news stories about immigrants and pro immigration politicians in Europe if they don't real.

I think you are vagueing about an ask and response I got, as that's the only place Blood Quantum has been mentioned, so I'll add a link to here. I'll let @soulvomit take it up with you if they feel so inclined, but I'd caution you against making assumptions about who you are talking with, and caution you about making statements about who's really Native American right after you said it wasn't your place to do so.

And immediately after saying that you aren't Native American and shouldn't speak on Blood Quantum, you go off on a tear about Mexicans and how there's still definitely a clear, obvious line between indigenous and non indigenous people, but there's a "hierarchy".

You're making an incorrect assumption and getting spun up over it. My statement of "I have seen some Indigenous people calling for genocide" is NOT the same thing as "Land Back is genocide". I get that you are REALLY defensive about whatever you think Land Back is and REALLY want this discussion to be about Land Back, but I would have thought you would have noticed I said I thought it was a tax thing that had appeal to part of me.

I use tags as an indexing system, generally tag based on topics, and the post is about indigenous people and the concept of indigenousness.

I am asking you to share the definitions you are using, because my experience of discussing topics related to race with Leftist anarchists is that they often use personal or obscure academic definitions of common words, which makes communication difficult.

You've already been explicit in your antizionism and views on the interactions between Palestinians and Jews, so this shouldn't be news to you that having been the victims of attempted genocide does not automatically make an ethnicity sensitive to the interests of other ethnicities.

Anyone, regardless of their race or intent, who is pushing an ideology that ancestry is inescapably linked to the right of residence, is playing with fire that has a history of flaring into genocide. If someone is being incautious or, even worse, using violent rhetoric in concert with that ideology, they are, at best, not caring about genocide, because they are, intentionally or unintentionally, advancing a proto genocide ideology.

I've been using #whither [blank] as an index tag for a while when discussing the boundaries and definitions of various races/ethnicities, starting with, iirc #whither Whiteness, which remains the one I've used the most I think.

Note: this was supposed to be a reblog of this post, but Tumblr does strange things when someone blocks you after you started a draft response.

All the arguments about who has indigenous status where seem... Odd and subtly disingenuous, especially considering that they're ALWAYS paired with pro immigration rhetoric (from the Global South, which includes China, to the Global North, which includes Israel, don't look too close at what caste/class most Indian immigrants to the US are back home...).

Exactly how many competing "indigenous" Peoples that have different levels of tenure on the land, and may be of only mixed indigenous heritage, are you supposed to pack in to a bit of land? Is any of this even going to give lip service to allowing for the fact that different ethnicities are at different relative population levels than however many years ago?

Exactly which year are we trying to freeze frame human migration to and ascribe ethnostate status to every existing country or demand new ethnostates? What the heck are we going to do with the absolute euromutt mess of almost every White American? I'm sure some folks would be perfectly happy with sawing people apart to send 1.6% of them one place and some larger chunks to France and Norway or whatever, but they may be less enthusiastic when they realize that is going to affect basically everyone, including most "indigenous" people.

Why have I NEVER seen anyone suggest a "back to Europe" for North American Whites? Or even Afrikaners? (Maybe that's a thing in South Africa?) Why is "Back to Africa" for American Blacks NEVER framed with relation to clearing out for Native Americans, or did I miss that?

Like, people and Peoples have moved around a lot, historically, not always of their own free will, and imperial powers playing musical chairs with their conquered Peoples and land is a pretty standard move, historically, and into much more recent times.

Like, this whole thing seems to require a look back to the disintegration of the Turkish and Austria-hungarian empire and the whole "woo we're a People and want our own Country! See, I just invented some National Music and Mythology!" Era and see to what degree anyone seriously beleived that then, and how much was just a stocking horse for whatever their favorite system of government was.

IDK exactly what I'm getting at here, mostly that there's a whole fuckton of unexamined questions here and I hope some of you will have some things to say.