#goes back and retries. without memories but a vague feeling. saint does not reincarnate. they simply go back with all their memories

[salsa-di-pomodoro]

(I. ran out of space in the tags 🥲 Read those first then the post. Also sorry if i sound odd or repeat a lot the same words, i tend to already think in circles on my own for Reasons (i am getting a diagnosis), so all this talk of repeating cycles is hard to think about while keeping a clear mind (and i am not a native english speaker). Also it's a hard thing to explain and i already have trouble explaining myself normally because i go on tangents i will otherwise forget lol. Which doesn't help here. I got overwhelmed by outside forces too which definetly didn't help.)

What i think is everything that could happen during a cycle has happened/will happen/is happening but if saint ascends you then that's the only thing that will happen regardless. That cycle doesn't change for you it's the only one that. Stops cycling? It's the only one that isn't a cycle and therefore it's impossible for it to have different outcomes, in your current timeline that stemmed from a particular version of a previous cycle. In other timelines it IS different but only because the cycle was different before your last one.

Basically it's. I don't think that's the right name for it but i'd call it a singularity. While every moment previous to that could create a different timeline, ascension by saint is the one thing that when it happens, it is the only thing that doesn't branch off into different timelines. Everything that happens after that can again start to branch off but you'll still be ascended in every possible following moment of every timeline since that. I'm still not making sense. i would draw a diagram but i can't draw

As for saint themself, i'm not sure what their fare means, but it think they are indeed an echo and in that they keep waking up in the same cycle that they already passed, though this time without very clear memories (like they know what happened but they don't recall it as something that has happened. So they do it again with the knowledge that they already have but they keep doing it because they haven't really, not in this version of the cycle), but then a different version of them also just. Moves on. It's not original saint maybe, but considering they're the only one that can't have the end they're granting others, i think that's a given. The other version i'm not sure of the logistics but they probably keep on going back to the physical world to continue their mission in every coming cycle. It's a different saint since it goes forward in time, but it's also the same one, just in a future cycle. They seem to want to ascend the iterators and they can understand them (i like to think its because a mark of communication would carry over if you came back from the void sea, even if it technically hasn't happened yet or might not happen this time).

So yeah in conclusion saint is the only one who is very very aware of every cycle they've ever lived and also the only one who is seemingly cursed to never be able to ascend. Their cycle isn't much different than everyone else's except instead of reincarnating when they die they just wake up again in the cycle they died in without going forward in any way like i said the others do in the tags (so it isn't possible for a timeline where saint has died to exist because it doesn't branch off. Because saint goes back). And the only way they sort of go forward in any way is by reincarnating back into themself after ascending and moving to ascend another iterator and therefore starting it all all over again, while the other version of them becomes an echo and starts the same cycle all over again, and they're aware of all of it. I think that's the terrible fate Pebbles, Moon and the echoes were talking about, and also the reason they can't see saint's beginning or end. In their perspective there isn't one, because the cycle has ended for them and they are unable to see anything other than that one. They cannot see anything but saint repeating the same cycle over and over again. I am not sure if they can see that they will go forward in other versions of themself but they sure are confused about it.

Not sure about the part where they doubt that it's real but seeing everything like that would probably not feel real to me either. Though it IS real to them. Having ascended, they will not wake up again, dream or not, real or not. Saint cannot ever truly ascend, and therefore will, and needs to wake up again. They crossed the point of no return, but even so they just end up back where they started. By taking a step back and choosing to wake up they are able to control it, i think? They don't just go back, they also go forward. If they didn't wake up again they would just become an echo. When they choose to wake up they go from echo to real again and what i said before can happen. If they didn't, they would just be an echo until they chose to wake up anyway.

Again sorry if i sound confusing or confused. I very much am confused but i wanted to at least try to even vaguely convey in what way exactly i (respectfully!) disagree. I hope i succeeded even a little bit.

Also. I'm glad you enjoy my rambles! I promise they're never going to be this long ever again. I hope :')

@salsa-di-pomodoro i do not mind and it's pretty interesting to read your takes.