#get me in that writer’s room so i can save the deep from kripke

[squidprinceofwinterfell]

One of my least favorite tropes is when a character says “I’ve never liked/always hated you” to a villainous character but they used to bully that character before they turned bad. And for some reason neither character brings this up during the scene.

[yourfandomfriend]

SPN Finale and Dabb Thoughts

So, I've been keeping so much of this to myself since season 12...

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SUPERNATURAL SPOILERS BELOW

Also, long-ass post with criticism of Andrew Dabb, so hit “J” if you’re not down to crit.

Ready?

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Plot

I’m conflicted. On paper, this is my ideal SPN finale. Having Chuck pull the plug on c137 is so effing cool, I can’t wait to see what happens. The idea of the boys finally discovering, right before the show ends, that their lives of suffering and sacrifice are just wank material? That the cosmic entity who controls their fate is a lying sadist? The possibilities are endless and the last scene was fun as hell. Fully looking forward to seeing how it all shakes loose. 10/10 for the plot.

However.

Chuck

That’s just... not like Chuck at all. He used to be complex. He was loving and apathetic, cruel and compassionate, selfish and giving, grand and tiny. A wonderful monster and a terrible father. A riddle wrapped in a burrito. 

At least, he was when Kripke and Carver wrote him. Yeah, Kripke’s was a more inscrutable being while Carver’s was a “welp, cat’s out of the bag now, so let’s just carve this turkey” kind of God. But both contained multitudes.

Whereas Dabb’s Chuck is the manager of a Popcopy.

A pure villain. An oily, sadistic, narcissistic garbage deity without a second dimension. And without the context, I’m totally down for that. The idea of making the God of SPN’s world a pervert who creates good people, falls in love with them, and then tortures them until they’re “interesting” because its the only way he can shoot his goo is fantastic.

Sure, it’s been done a thousand times before, but we’ve been with these characters so long and watched them hurt and lose so many times, it’s almost like a reconning. It’s what most stans think of the people who control their favorite characters’ fates. But it’s completely disruptive to what’s come before.

And with any other showrunner, my first thought would be, It’s clearly a fakeout. Writers lie, right? This all must be ramping up to something bigger. But isn’t Kripke or Carver. This is Dabby boy.

Andrew Dabb

When Kripke and Carver’s seasons make me see scorched earth and think it’s laying the groundwork for something deep, I find out Dabb’s already spent and is fast asleep with a smile on his face. He leads up to no payoff and pays off with no lead-up. He destroys the world he inherited to get what excites him and then throws it in the trash when he inevitably gets bored.

Also, like with 12 and 13′s finales, I should’ve felt more given the events of the episode. But I didn’t. The tone was flat, the theming was MIA, the structure was a mess -- I mean, the scene where Cas gets thrown and just lays on the ground to stay out of the way while Dean’s all ready to shoot Jack and then Sam parks a damn mile away and runs to stop them for, like, an hour --

-- and the continuity is screwy, because, well, continuity is boring, right? It’s constraining and hard to keep track of, and totally ruins a big twist. Like having Lucifer and Michael finally fight -- otherwise known as The Apocalypse, an event that was hyped in season 5 as ending in half the planet getting nuked -- is really just a wire-fu stunt that couldn't blow a pencil off a lopsided desk, because the main event is Dark!Jensen in his little hat and how about we end it like the Thriller video on a goddamn freeze frame? Why not?

And the thing season 5 was built around, free will, the idea that no matter how big things got, Sam and Dean could always say no to the angels using them, even archangels. Humans can change the world with their choices. Well, forget all that because now Michael can leave the side door open and sneak back in! 

Sure, it contradicts not only prior continuity but also everything the show stands for... but wasn’t it a sweet reveal when Dean turns around and oh no! It’s not Dean it’s Dark!Jensen and let’s get him back in the little hat!

And Sam. He’s always been ridiculously reverent of characters like God and Death. And he wanted to believe that Chuck was ultimately good. The Ultimate Good. When Sam believes in someone, it takes him a while to turn on them, Jack is proof of that. Having him pissed at Chuck from the jump was really uncharacteristic of him. Not only that, it robs his revelation of all its impact.

There’s no sense of betrayal for Sam, no room for characters arcing, not for Sam or Dean. Just a flat, telegraphed twist. I honestly would’ve preferred they did some plot judo and had Sam be the one Chuck convinced to put Jack down (”You know it’s the right thing to do.” “It has to be you.” etc.) and had Chuck argue with Dean to keep him busy while Sam stole the god gun and snuck out. 

Dean could’ve realized via conversation what Chuck was up to and raced off to save not only Sam but Jack and Cas from this cruel little drama. All while Chuck smirked down the clock, thinking he was just giving Dean enough rope to hang himself with. As usual.

Then have Sam realize as he’s pointing the gun at Jack that Chuck played him, and have Dean finally shoot God, just like he always wanted.

Billy

Given the ending, I have hope. Hope that Billie does something about the way the story has treated her since season 12. She was supposed to be the character who kept the writers honest and made sure they couldn’t use death and resurrection as a “Get Out of Jail Free” card, and then halfway through season 12, after humiliating her all season, Dabb uses resurrection to literally get the boys out of jail free.

He killed her off, teased consequences and forgot about them, and when she came back, (along with twenty other characters) she suddenly couldn’t wait to bring the boys back from the dead for no reason and teleport them out of impossible situations and lecture Rowena on the natural order and here’s a Mystery Box! A whole room of Mystery Boxes! Isn’t that interesting?!

Still, the last scene of the finale gives me so much hope. If Chuck really did what I think he did, if he really Azreal’d the universe, then everything is on the table in season 15 in a way that actually makes sense.

Also, the revelation that Death is into tickle porn is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. And everyone having to tell the truth and us finding out the petty secrets Sam and Dean have been hiding from us is gold.

I need to got to work in the morning so it’s long past my bedtime. Hit me up if you want more Dabb crit, praise, and jokes later. All my thoughts on Jack and Crowley and Mary, Michael and the Lucifer/Nick story, the real reason I quit @supernatural-answers, whatever you want.  I feel like finally sharing all. 

[missjackil]

SPN and Subtext

First, let’s establish what subtext is really, for anyone who may not know. It is unspoken, unacted, non-canonical, images a writer wants you to think about. It’s not some hidden secret that the author wants only a select few to know about, its just something to provoke thought. A way to make some people anticipate something that may or may not become canon at some point, and Supernatural has a lot of it.  The very first hints of subtext, were naturallly between Sam and Dean. Supernatural, at its very core is “The epic love story between two brothers” as quoted by Erik Kripke. “Wncest” was the very first, organically grown ships that developed from the show’ subtext, and still continues 12 years later. Canonically however, Sam and Dean are not sexual with each other, and they never will be, but there’s nothing wrong with enjoying the subtext, like, how they stand/sit so close together, how theyre gorgeous single men in their 30s that insist on living together and still share motel rooms even though they could each get their own. The lengths they’ll go to save each other, the way they look at each other and so on.  This subtext is subtle, nothing that would make anyone think the show promotes incest, but provocative enough to make some people wonder exactly how far they could go for each other. How deep is that love really? In our world, anyone with this level of love, would probably be having sex too, but we don’t know this level of love in our real lives. Sure, we all have people we love deeply, more than our own lives, that we wouldnt think about having sex with, but none of us have sold our soul for that person, condemning ourselves to Hell for eternity, for just 1 more year with that person, and so they wont die yet. None of us have overpowered the Devil himself so he wouldnt kill them (and then of course save the world in the process) and hardly any of us have ever killed to save this one person. So a person who may be intrigued with the idea that Sam and Dean may have, or could have sex at some point, isnt necessarily in favor of incest (for most wincest shippers anyway) but more or less wondering how it hasnt happened yet, considering this level of love. 

Now most WIncest shippers know, and understand, Sam and Dean wont ever have sex on the show, and most of them don’t even want them to, and would rather it be left to their imagination, and fan fic. When the show piles on the subtext though, with the bro hugs, and deep meaningful confessions of feelings, such as “Dont you dare think that theres anything, past or present that I would put in front of you! I need you to see that... Im begging you!” Our little wincest hearts grow 10 sizes even if we dont ship it.  Now there has been subext (homoerotic) put between Sam, Dean and other characters. Also, not to be a secret message that either Sam or Dean are gay or bi, or that either will be in a same sex relationship to anyone, but its put there just to provoke thoughts. Writers have used this since there have been characters to write about. Even in the Bible, there is subtext between King David and his best friend Jonathan that he “loved like a brother”. Its never written that they were in love with each other, or that they had sex, but it does make the reader wonder if it happened.  Subtext between Cas and Dean started early when Cas came to the show, but it also happened between Cas and Sam though less people noticed it, simply because Dean had more interaction with Cas than Sam did, but Sam and Cas always had their own subtext since they met. Sam went a little fan boy upon meeting an angel, and Cas, though pointing out Sam had demon blood, gave him a warm, affectionate, 2 handed hand shake. However, Cas was more active with Dean, and a lot more angry and violent with him, as well as Dean was angry and disrespectful to Cas for most of S4 and 5, which has me wondering how Destiel even became a popular ship, given how brutal they have been with each other.

The subtext doesnt end with these 3 though. There was subtext between Dean and Benny, Crowley and Sam, Crowley and Dean, Crowley and Cas, Sam and Mick, Dean and Mr Ketch, but again, these are not secret messages that any of them are gay or bi or that any will become a romantic couple. In fact, I am beyond sure, none of them ever will.  SPN isnt that kind of show. The lives of the Winchesters are tragic. They can’t have normal relationships with people, even with each other. The show is, and always will be about Sam and Dean, not their significant others, if they ever venture to give them girlfriends again, we can be sure, they wont get married and have children. They certainly wont give them boyfriends, if they were going to establish that either of them were anything besides straight, that would have come out a long time ago. Changing their sexuality this far into the series, would change the series itself to something it never was.  I wont lie and say its not fun to fantasize and read fan fic because it sure is! But if I expect the show to change Sam and Dean’s sexuality, Im going to end up very disappointed. Like so many Destiel fans are going to be when it comes to the end and Sam and Dean end up together, whether living or dead, it will still just be them together.  I havent been on Tumblr very long, less than a year, and Im shocked to see how bad some people are about their ships. I cant believe that a big portion of Destiel shippers believe ludicris things like the show is pushing Sam out to make room for Cas as Dean’s #1, Jensen doesnt know or care about Dean if he doesnt believe Dean is 100% in love with Cas, Sam and Gabriel would make a lovely couple, or maybe even Sam and Lucifer, Dean is bisexual and the paint color on the wall proves it...I could go on forever but Ill make myself sick probably. Theres gonna be some really disappointed people when/if Cas isnt back next season, which is very likely, since Misha’s contract is up this year and he hasnt been acting like someone who is interested in staying on this particular show, has been given billing after Mark Sheppard if they’re in the same episode, and now the show has gone and made Cas so unredeemable to the boys, I wouldnt be shocked if it’s Dean that kills him,  but I am about 90% sure, Cas is done after this season.  So even though there is a ton of homoerotic subtext in this show, none of us should take it as anything more than it is. Just thoughts implanted to make the show more interesting, but not insite of whats to come. Just write and read fan fic, and appreciate the show for what it is, The Epic PLATONIC love story between Sam and Dean and some random monsters, demons, angels, God and Baby :)