#general content warning for musing on the Nephilim plot nonsense | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

elizabethrobertajones · 8 years ago

Text

12x10 watching notes

tl;dr Yockey owes me dinner

There's a large part of me (the part that's getting larger) that just wants to eat pasta in a mug in peace and watch this episode before midnight :P But I always regret not starting to write meta on an episode as I watch if I don't do it, so here I am, cup of pasta and all.

Expectations - well, the spoilers all suggest some crazy angel hijinks in period costume. I'll be fine if we make it through this episode without Cas turning out to have had a baby with Lily in the past or something.

If the spec is true and he's in a female vessel I am however always going to have an exemption that Cas can be lesbians with her in the past, and may even WRITE Cas being gay with her in the past if I have to. >.>

The sanctity of the OTP has a few override buttons :P

Aside from that, well, it's Yockey, and I loved his first episode and he seems like he should be mostly unproblematic, after 12x06, but of course we barely have a handle on him and he's never written a full plot episode or Cas, and it seems like he'll not only be writing Cas but presumably a past version of Cas in a different vessel so... This is going to be a bit of a wild ride no matter how chill 12x06 made me feel about Yockey as a writer :P

The trouble with pasta in a mug is that it's still really hot towards the bottom of the mug so you have to keep stopping eating it, and I think that is a perfect metaphor for how I approach watching new SPN episodes >.>

Right back to 4x02 as a starter of the recap :')

I may be getting older but I swear recaps didn't habitually re-tell entire chunks of the story like this re: the entire everything that happened with the nephilim plot so far.

Side note: I really don't want to think this much about the nephilim plot and would rather it just kind of went away and didn't come back until like, season 30 or something when the kid's a bit older and ready for the drama.

Honestly the show has a sort of built in expctation of longevity at this point, why not, uh, plant some seeds.

Anyway maybe just because Buckleming are the only ones with direct contact with it so far, but I really don't trust the show to be equipped to deal with this, ethically, or maybe even in good storytelling way. Which just leaves me with a ton of dread that problematic shit is coming >.>

Also recapping an entire chunk of the story for Billie getting killed :< Thinking of problematic stuff and lazy editing.

I supopse it's a terrible balance between the netflix bingers (who'll skip it anyway) and the casual viewers who may not remember everything or are not reliable enough viewers to have caught every episode so they need a weighty reminder. It may just be that whoever's editing the recaps has changed because they used to be much more efficient at conveying everything and now they're just sort of laying everything out. The mini road so far last episode was really bland. I think the art form's disappeared :P

If anyone's wondering, the arcade game angel is now my favourite character forever. It reminds me of in Steven Universe when Garnet got addicted to an arcade game, and couldn't be budged. Weirdly specific but excellent trope: immortal black ladies who have terrible impulse control around arcades.

I'm going to be so sad when Lily kills her.

[crazy awesome fight scene interlude]

[kind of sad we already know she's called Lily because even though Lily Sunder is an incredible name, I wanted to call her Eyepatch Lady and I don't have to]

Aw Benjamin :< God dammit why did she have to die first and SO soon after Billie... I mean I knew they were killing off the angels and have flashbacks to flesh them out so I assumed some would bite the dust immediately, and basically all of them but Cas are probably gonna die in the long run because haha recurring friends for Cas... But ugh, it seems kind of cruel to end the recap killing one badass WoC, and then start the episode and introduce and kill another >.> I mean I guess not intentionally cruel but definitely making a depressing trend REALLY obvious.

I don't think anyone will care about the representation when no matter what awesome roles the characters have, they keep on dying >.>

I'm going to sulk off and get some tea, because I saw that coming from a mile off and it's still annoying me :P

I also did the dishes and gained some dark humour perspective on it because of the little glimpses of the angels standing around doing seemingly nothing while Benjamin warned them - at least Benjamin doesn't have to have the conversation, "so what have you done since we last saw you?" "I have been playing video games since they were invented, non stop." "Oh, cool. Cool. I rebelled against heaven and stopped the apocalypse and was god and - "

"Cas has been pretty busy, huh?" - confirmed, all the other angels are lazy butts and Cas has been hard at work.

I assume his fixation on finding Lucifer's offspring and dragging out all the noticeboards to set it up is a continuation of what's up with him and hunting. He was feeling more than useless with just some vampires, and so now he is trying 1000% of his hardest to do this right, especially as it's the loose end he's got left in the way of any attempt at happiness... He basically ALWAYS has one of these... times like this I miss Steve!cas and his simple happiness (uh on top of a yawning void of depression) at doing a few human things right, like Nora's praise that he did basically everything to open the store without her because when he has a few simple things to accomplish, he can get it all done, and everything is ordered and in the right place, and... God I feel bad for Cas being at loose ends and feeling useless.

Dean immediately is a dick about Cas NOT finding Kelly yet, so I assume he's in a good mood since last episode...

I do like that Cas is clearly at least allowed to hang out at the Bunker and use their resources even if Sam and Dean aren't helping him or part of this project, and just sort of walked in on it. I guess this is a "good morning" meeting, only they walked into Cas staying up all night on this. There's no weirdness about the fact Cas is here or has been doing it, he's just an accepted part of their living space, albiet one doing weird art projects that mean they can't use the war room for their own crap :P

They're also really enjoying sprawling on their furniture now they're free

Transitioning to the ongoing disappointment in Mom not making chicken soup for them - Dean continues finding it hardest to accept Mary has apparently adjusted, but to a life without them, instead of adjusting to a life living in the Bunker with them. It's also bitterly amusing me that now Cas is finally kind of just around them by default, they have another character who is explained away in the opening of the episode...

Oh god Dean and Cas are "walking past each other in the kitchen" while not making eye contact. WHY is Cas in the kitchen. HE DOESN'T EAT. Is he strategically walking in past Dean? Bothering Sam to know if he wants coffee so he has an excuse to go get it while Dean is making a sandwich? How long has this been going on?? I want this entire soap opera episode pls.

Oh no DEAN IS PISSED BECAUSE HE IS WORRIED ABOUT CAS. He says it's just about the consequences in a vague way, but CAS is the one who clearly incurred them because it's not like this deal had any strings attached to random stuff in the universe a la releasing Amara, it was a blood pact between Winchesters, on a family level, therefore Dean is most worried about Cas.

Halp.

I don't like this new trend of Sam and Dean actually communicating and talking about their shit. This is awful. Can we go back to them not talking about anything?

Cas walks in on Sam defending him. My heart.

Although tbh he can hear through walls so unless the Bunker maaagically dampens that, he's come stomping back because he can't take listening to them going in circles about why Dean is ignoring Cas, because ouch, hearing how Dean is concerned about Cas's actions... I bet HE'S taking it as Dean thinking that he made a mistake >.>

*snipey snipey Destiel arguing* (Yeah, Dean just pretty much accuses Cas of that :P)

I love the old "all our friends are dead" type moment that they all have when someone comes up with "personal" business elsewhere. Like when Dean ran off to help Benny or Sam wandered off to deal with Amy Pond. Personal??? we don't get personal lives! aaand Cas is truly a Winchester now.

Oh third wheel Sam. Cas wants Dean to come but snarks at him like he's not gonna, Sam looks at Dean, Dean looks at Sam and Cas and rolls his eyes and accuses Cas of doing stupid things, but comes anyway because he will still look after Cas even if they're not talking...

Aaand the promo scene which left me amazed Sam did not open the car door, jump out onto the road, and take his chances there.

[patented angry Cas squinting]

I think that was the stage direction - Yockey might be new at this but he knows what he's doing.

Oh NO the bit we saw before the episode wasn't even the half of it. Dean and Cas are having an Actual Married Argument, deliberately projecting their fight onto talking about Benjamin. I am waiting for Sam to roll down his window and climb out to spend the rest of the drive on the roof.

The fact Cas says "Benjamin wouldn't call for help lightly" as well as about putting himself in harm's way - Dean probably latches onto that last part because it suits their argument more - also firmly confirming very clearly and loudly that Dean is worried about what will happen to Cas because he's upset that Cas put himself in harm's way, so this argument is now definitely, textually, 100% on Dean's side about how CONCERNED he is for Cas (and probably now a heaping of that Cas wouldn't deserve it and that Dean wasn't worth it because self-esteem issues... (The way this is going they'll probably say THAT in text too in like 3 lines) But yeah, also raising the issue that Cas doesn’t ask for help. Watched him rake leaves, anyone?

Dean is going to CRASH THE CAR. Sam's breaking point is Dean literally rotating 180 degrees in his seat to talk back at Cas. :P

*sound of a car horn and something narrowly missing them*

GUYS.

Cas values sarcasm as a trait he really likes (nice, perfect need for someone who is going to resentfully be married to Dean forever), but would also like to be appreciated more :<

Aaand the info about Benjamin and his vessel has officially murdered me, especially as he's already dead. :< Angel/human friendships! *flails emotionally* Also no angel has ever been shown so close to their vessel. Hannah came to appreciate Caroline and gave her back, but without bonding with her (rather, traumatising her, I guess); Cas being so happy Jimmy was devout now has retconned emotional impact about Cas knowing how his friend appreciated his vessel and Cas was excited to have that same bond. But Jimmy died early on, Cas didn't have the luxury to be kind and friendly to him or to start doing that later; although he returned in 4x20 saying of course he'd keep his word to Jimmy and look after him (in that very angel way that Cas had back in season 4), it took him until Hannah and Caroline to remember this bond with a vessel and go attempt to make it right with Claire and Amelia.

*flops over and slowly slides off my chair*

*resumes watching from the floor because of Cas staring at Benjamin's wings* You know how we spend way too much time as fandom imagining crap about Dean having Cas's wings burned on him or his car or whatever? This is like that but with a character I've known for like 8 minutes of the show and I have a tear in my eye.

Poor Cas :<

*continues a non-stop "poor Cas" litany through this scene*

Oh my god even though all the angel blades look the same, Cas can TELL which angel they belong to THIS IS THE WORST NEW INFORMATION I'VE EVER HEARD.

Well, aside from the longing retcon. Hey, it must be 2 years old around now - that was 10x10

Having Cas being upset about losing a close friend that he fought together with right after saving Dean, a dear friend he has fought together with, and getting super judged for it, is way on the nose. Ow.

It's pretty cool that Lily has learned to talk on angel radio.

Oh gosh, Lily has a dead child I WONDER WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT

I love as well that Lily is dressing like angels used to, in a black and white suit, can talk on angel radio, has an angel blade... She's like the ultimate hunter becoming the thing she hunts in a sort of parallel to grizzled old hunters wearing a big ol bear skin or something :P

place behind them when they get out the car called "The Wright Spot"... guess which director is directing this episode. Go on. :P

"If I plan to do anything else stupid, I'll let you know" - I honestly did not think it was possible to love Cas more than I already did but he keeps on proving me wrong.

Cas is catching up on what feels like a 3 year backlog of angry squinting. He's definitely gone over the edge since last episode, as a result of last episode, but at the moment I think as long as Dean and Cas make up, in a good way where he's getting to vent some things about not feeling appreciated and so on, this will be okay.

Hang on this is the diner scene - aren't Sam and Dean going to crush into this both with Cas? I need to see how this happens...

Anyway AAAAAH Cas talking to angels! Angels who aren't trying to kill him immediately!

They are judging him for being careless and having to take a different vessel. Lol. "I liked the old you better" *Cas inspects himself*

Mirabelle then gets at Cas for the angel fall which obviously I was expecting since I already joked about this exact scene at the beginning of the episode :P I like that they went right ahead and addressed it. It's quite an elephant in the room, and of course the fact Cas's old battalion hadn't crossed paths with him at any point in the angel drama previously... Well, they HAD to have not picked Raphael or they wouldn't have made it past season 7. They may or may not have picked Metatron but they can't have been in Cas's army because he'd have actually chatted to them. There were still angels after season 10 who hadn't really got involved in all that at all, so I assume they laid low, perhaps knowing Cas better than most, or thinking they do >.>

Oh yeah just go ahead and remind him of how terrible things went with Uriel and Balthazar while you're at it :P

The "i just stared at a wall in a church for 100 years" angel is very boring. Mirabelle seemed to be pooossibly meant to be standing in Heaven's prison when the call went out? There were bars in front of her or something like that, so I assumed she was doing some job there. No idea what beardy angel was doing.

Also pls stop reminding Cas of literally everything he's ever done because in every previous encounter with angels, bringing stuff up like that is a fast way to manipulate or upset Cas and he's in a wee bit of a precarious place right now...

"spanner in the works" has someone actually called Cas that in canon or is that maybe like, something Edlund said in an interview or something?

"I'm not a hero, but sometimes doing the right thing requires sacrifices" You know what, not that I wasn't already thinking it, but Yockey can keep Cas :P

In this case, that line is tapping into his fight with Dean as well. He knows he didn't do anything particularly noble and definitely not honourable in a literal sense as he broke a blood vow, but it was what Cas deemed the "right" thing and he's in a sort of waiting zone to see if he broke the world again or what will be coming for him next... The sacrifices he's willing to take to make sure Dean etc are safe, because to Cas Dean is his moral compass and what is "right" is Dean and has been since season 4, even if Cas often goes against it or struggles with it or doesn't live up to Dean's standards or Dean has no idea Cas is trying to do right by Dean's way or -

(My mum's on holiday so I'm stuck at the start of season 7 wallowing on the end of season 6 fight right now :P)

"But it always seems like it's other angels sacrificing for your good deeds" Yeah, buddy, we've watched Cas every freakin' step of the way and he has SUFFERED for this okay, so back off. CAS KNOWS ALREADY AND IF HE SLEPT HE WOULDN'T BECAUSE HE'D BE LYING AWAKE THINKING ABOUT THIS

"Are you here to insult me or talk about Benjamin?" "Can we do both?"

ily Yockey

"We didn't think you'd care"

fuck off Yockey :P

(I love that this contrasts with at the start Dean complaining about Cas caring as part of his rant to Sam about it all - drawing a line between what Cas cares about here and there... Obviously Cas DOES care a lot about these angels because ARGH his reaction to Benjamin HURT SO MUCH. But he's been understandably distracted for the last few years, and with these guys off having their own problems, say this started RIGHT after the angel fall, CAS WAS HUMAN and would potentially have missed anything on angel radio meant for him to warn him about this because he was so bad at tuning into it. If he never answered the call the first time one of their number was murdered, well, of course they'd think he doesn't care)

Also I love that this episode clearly shows that Yockey has a very full awareness of the show's story so far.

Ahahaha Sam no. (Please keep Sam-ing like this. You are the Sam I love so very much :P)

He has been observing Dean's behaviour all his life and he knows when Dean's patience snaps when it comes to worrying about Cas.

Describe them in one picture

Why does Sam cram in on the end though.

He doesn't wanna be left out either, though the bench is only big enough for Dean n Cas

If you want to talk definitions of third wheels, Sam is definitely it this episode, but he's got enough of a sense of humour that knowing he's along for the ride trapped in a lovers' spat, he can at least have some fun with it, since he's basically got to be the buffer between them. Or else towed in their wake.

(I also like how this shows Sam knows there's no point arguing with Dean about this, so going along with it mocking him for his behaviour is about the one sort of resistance he has left to him :P)

"My friends who don't listen very well" *Dean smirks at Cas* Okay, but I'm taking a screencap of that to use as like, a phone background or something.

This has mostly turned into me not listening to the conversation and screenshotting their faces so I need to go back and try again

Mirabelle better not get killed just because Sam and Dean showed up.

Noooooooo

I can see these coming from so far off but

"Who wants some pie"

Dean trying to play happy families with this weird group of people.

Well, one weird rando angel, since Mirabelle is now dead, which means that I was right but this is an even more alarming rate of side character death than I was expecting

Still don't think I've caught beard!angel's name

He accuses Cas of "how far he's fallen" *shot of him being lovingly elbowed in the kidney by Dean* I wonder what the implication is here :P

The description of him as a warrior is interesting but we already knew that. I like "angel's angel" though because it mirror's "man's man" I suppose as a phrase, which is the sort of stereotype of a manly dude who does all the manly dude stuff, well, like Dean presents the front. I think, like, the sort of dude who goes fishing with his mates every weekend rather than stay home with the wife :P

idk if angels go fishing aside from Daniel but that's the second time I've thought of him in a few minutes of TV time so

*Dean and beard!angel really stare down each other* Not jealous at all, are we Dean? ("want some coffee with that sugar" I am so amused) Beard!angel accuses Cas of being homeless, which is really mean because he lives at the Bunker now, but, uh, essential to the arc of Cas REALISING that he lives at the Bunker and is in fact his home and GOOD ENOUGH and also he's totally welcome there and Dean loves him and Sam's only being weird about this because he feels like a third wheel and is making DEAN'S life hell for it in the only way a little sibling who learned to punish people through well-meant bratty little sibling behaviour can... :P

Well, home will still be very snarky and passive aggressive when he lives there but at least it will feel like HIS snarky passive-aggressive hunter-filled home.

(Angels referring to humans as monkeys is an age old sign they can't be trusted or have the Wrong Morals, like Uriel especially since that's how we were introduced to the idea that calling us "mud monkeys" was "close to blasphemy" - which already undermines that Cas was always an "angel's angel" because it sounds like this is exactly how to describe beard!angel, and hey MAYBE CAS WAS PROJECTING BASED ON HIS ENVIRONMENT, NOT LIKE DEAN DOES THAT ALL THE TIME TO FIT IN OR ANYTHING)

I have collected so many emotional parallels between season 4 Cas and early seasons Dean in this one conversation that will utterly destroy me next time I wander through season 4, which was already riddled with this parallel in the original subtext >.>

Also not for nothing but beard!angel does look vaguely like John & seems like him in the older male alpha authority figure way he acts. Dean is rejecting him which is great, but he has standards about what makes an angel (read: man) which doesn't fit with the true self we know of Cas (read: Dean, who is of course, "humanity") and clearly these are outdated societal angel things which he holds to...

welp

"have some pie" (why do I feel like he's walking off to be Lily Sundered?)

Great parting words though. Dean is like "don't mind if I do" when he sees how much money the angel threw down. Of course it's mocking them for their attachment as family, but it's a value that is the CORE of the show - humanity and love and family - which pie represents in all its forms. A barb telling them to have pie because it's apparently demeaning to like these things (and below an angel to care for a family of humans like this) is no insult at all to the people who ACTUALLY LIKE PIE.

Sam moves over so Dean and Cas can share the seat together. Nicely done.

Captain of the SS Destiel and desperately trying to steer it through the storm to its berth :P

"Ishim" apparently. Dean immediately defends Cas against him once he's gone, like, Cas doesn't deserve to be treated that way. BECAUSE DEAN APPRECIATES HIM.

Not that Cas may be able to recognise what just happened there because wow they're all dug in on their fight :P

"No one gets to be a dick to my husband except me"

Not surprisingly, Ishim then gets attacked and lightly stabbed.

(that was a pun. Because angels bleed light -

I'll show myself out)

Cas shows up and injures Lily in a surprisingly similar way.

I'm still impressed with her absorbing and using an angel smiting for power.

Ishim says "I'm fine" which is such a part of the SPN vocabulary I don't even know what that means except that he's absorbed the same rules about it somewhere or other. :P Cas had to explain it to Hannah about why humans do it, but I think angels come on a range of personality types and Ishim is definitely of the better socialised type than say, Mirabelle, who was very angel-y, especially with how she stood the whole time watching them, and still had more of a uniform look to her clothes then Ishim who's just wearing a nice suit.

I do like the church they're holed up in

Hrm, vaguely annoyed about the "came to earth" turn of phrase, because I always took the watching over it to mean they were literally around on earth, though not in vessels and obviously as true forms very distant and above it all.

It's making my thumb itch that Cas had a vessel before Jimmy but I've been bracing myself for this retcon for ages so I'm just going to have to live with it :P

The fact that Ishim is the one dude and the other angels are all in female vessels does look, in this period costume, kind of odd. He has a little flock or something :P Weird gender role stuff going on here. I mean, from an outside view. To Cas, gender is nicely explained by that little exchange where Dean was like "Benjamin's a woman?" and Cas was like, "Benjamin's an ANGEL. His vessel is a woman" - so pronouns apply to them if they like them, but the real distinction is really not that important because what they are is genderless wavelengths with a consciousness that may like to be one or the other in a vessel or for it not to matter, or to prefer a pronoun that applies to them regardless of vessel or... it's wobbly. The important thing is they're angels :P Idk if I should have celebrated this louder back in the car discussion because I always took it as canon and especially with Hannah in season 10 something the show sort of went over again to make it a bit more clear, but with more hindsight maybe this really is taking what was strictly still sort of headcanon when it comes to expressly TALKING about how angels identify, and putting it in the text, aka definitely and finally queering all the angels ever, forever)

Anyway I had it paused on a lady with the Perfect Eyebrow and idk how the casting went for this but it was probably "can you do Cas's Eyebrow" so now I should see how she handles the rest because I'm sold just on her resting Cas face :P

We know since 4x20 Cas would possess Claire, with absolutely no weirdness about it, but there's enough blah about the circumstances that he might only have done it because the bloodline, emergency moment, Jimmy was in trouble etc... But here we have Cas clearly having freely chosen a female vessel (maybe an ancestor of the Novaks? Which would limit his choice if she was the only suitable one around at that point but eh >.>) and so that's sort of... a big moment I guess... *see above: conversation about angel gender* I'm so used to thinking this is a totally normal thing that I have no idea how mindblowing this is for them to happily show Cas in a female vessel like this :P There was so much weirdness about Raphael swapping vessels - several characters got a shot in towards the end of season 6. And at least Metatron made a crack about Hannah swapping out Caroline and using a male one. But Cas is a major character and unlike Crowley briefly possessing women, the way angels possess people is very different (and the reminder that Benjamin was friends with his vessel from the start of the episode sort of works in general to show how angels have to have a more mutual compatibility with their vessel...)

It’s a pretty big thing, I guess.

Benjamin is complaining about how wet it is on earth, but Ishim just confirmed all the spec that this is a human marrying an angel and I'm contemplating going out to stand in the rain and shriek into the sky so he's got that all wrong. Rain is great, when you need to shriek :P

Obviously this is forefront a parallel to the Lucifer and nephilim thing, buuut I mean they're in LOVE and MARRIED

who else in this episode is MARRIED

Oh right Sam had to yell at them to not drive into oncoming traffic because they were too busy being MARRIED

For the record, the description of the Nephilim here is killing me - it has grace and a human soul, and I've been speculating that Cas never lost his soul he had after being human, so he too has both. (Which makes him dangerous)

Revisiting nephilim is all Dabb because he wrote 8x22 which originally introduced the idea, and so I am now in a sort of danger zone for getting sucked riiight back into angel fall spell nonsense :P I have picked up a real aversion to wild speculation but this is my weak spot. The season 8-9 crazy Destiel optimism about that damn spell, and Dabb's picking at all the loose ends this season, especially to get to the Nephilim, which plays such a key part in that beautiful, horrible idea that the last ingredient was "the grace of an angel in love with a human" and this is specifically WHY the spell makes the angels fall... Brings them down to the monkeys' level :P Ishim would hate to know that detail of why he has no wings :P But, yeah, that the spell was a punishment or reward that comes as a result of angels mingling with humans (and I still think God preferred angels to like humans, so this taboo comes from angel society, that Ishim represents and is denouncing in front of Cas)

It's times like this I remember the translation to the angel tablet is just sitting in the bunker in a language Cas can read and I need to go shriek in the rain some more

I guess Ishim is like the homophobic, racist uncle, we should treat this accordingly :P

(Benjamin also confirmed this is an angel-made rule)

Castiel moves like the Cas we know better :P I like her a lot.

I mean, she IS Cas, after all.

Aww Lily's husband has great hair.

Ishim says that he was only supposed to watch and instead he took up with a filthy animal... hahahahahahahahaha *flashback within a flashback to the diner scene and Cas all crushed up against Dean*

No I'm fine why do you ask

"How could anyone know them and not love them" (re: humanity)

Help meee

Oh no, Castiel does the whole speech about why this angel broke the rules before they kill him :<

I mean... Delicious irony making Castiel say it because obviously later Cas has done a complete about turn on this, at least where loving humanity is concerned. Maybe not the fathering nephilim bit as he's still out to get Holly and this is explaining WHY he knows it's such a big deal (8x22 also showed him hesitant to kill the nephilim there until she turned on them and proved she was ready to act monstrously, and then he had no hesitation) although I hope this inspires him to be more sympathetic, remembering HOW cold and angelic he was back here and how he's all in contrast to this now.

(I don't think it's weird Akobel makes that speech about humanity being great in front of Castiel, because although Cas clearly softens towards humans later and has a more sympathetic feeling than say, Uriel, who clearly is on a level with Ishim on this subject, by the time we meet him, or at least, after 3 episodes putting up with Dean, this mirrors Dean's 4x22 speech, which means that this is a trial run that doesn't convince Cas, because, well, there's no weight behind it to TRULY make Cas think. 4x22 in contrast is SO powerful that Dean's similar words have a huge weight of their friendship, his growing understanding of humanity, etc, that they land squarely on him and convince him to rebel)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah and then Castiel flinches, clearly affected by this even though he knows the nephilim is an abomination and has to die :<

Always had that crack in his chassis...

I am glad that this is HOPEFULLY, via what they've set up in Cas's emotional landscape here so far, going to let him get to a place where he chooses to either let Holly go and forget about this, or at least track her down but give her a choice and maybe some actual HELP with having to raise a devil baby if she chooses to do so. >.> Definitely showing us Cas feeling bad about killing nephilim that haven't done anything, or given a chance to live their lives normally might NOT grow up awful (Jesse the forgotten antichrist comes to mind, never mind the nephilim we saw before who was living a completely peaceful life until Metatron ruined everything, as he tends to do)... I suppose it's been Cas vs 2 nephilim now and Lucifer's baby is the 3rd, so...

The message in 12x08 was so weird about it, there's so much salvage work for me to even be sure I know which way is up with this but as a bare minimum making Cas conflicted about what to do about this issue is a start to make it less crazy with all these guys coming rushing to tell the woman what to do with her baby, even if it seems justified by the story that they seem to know best >.>

"It was necessary, it was right," Cas says, looking horrified.

(Sam and Dean do too, and as I said, emotional compass...)

This is such a terrible plotline :P A sensible response back in 12x08 would have been like "hey you were coercively raped by the actual devil, just FYI about your baby" and she'd be like "oh shit that's terrible" and go willingly choose to have an abortion (and therapy probably >.>) without anyone telling her to do it but the main characters weighing in with their info on nephilim and anti-christs they've already met and dealt with to give her some best case/worst case scenarios to help her decision >.> That's the most political route because of actual choice and agency on the mother's part but eh. A lot of times in media they toe a safe line of considering abortion and confirming it's a thing that happens and isn't inherently evil but then the preggers character involved magically decides that they're fine and will keep the baby for personal reasons for the story to avoid going there and praising abortion for saving desperate people >.> Or well, unless it's a tragedy, but still a terrible idea to have the baby for everyone involved, in which case stories tend to throw a last minute miscarriage their way...

12x08 was just a mess though so had the poor woman in a room full of people yelling at her and attacking her in Lucifer's case about what she was supposed to do, and then she legged it and immediately decided to keep the baby and - this could have been better handled, even in a toeing a really safe bland line, is all I'm saying >.>

"we completed a mission, it was necessary, it was right." - Cas falling back on old angelic behaviour to explain it because the mission and their purpose was absolute and you didn't question it.

"You say so," says Dean, still annoyed with Cas for the last big decision he made where he thought he was doing something necessary and right by killing Billie.

(I notice this involves a lot of murder for the protagonists to work out how they feel about the big issues... Great :P)

But yeah, killing kids is like the no.1 no-no and used to show Dean stepping over the line in 10x22, and now Cas reveals he was complicit in killing a kid before. (Ishim is probably not going to make it out of the episode, and certainly doesn't deserve to, by SPN's rules :P)

I love the exchanges where they're like just "Dean." "Cas." because saying each other's names is enough to say everything they need to because they've been over arguments like this so much by now.

(I think Sam and Dean do it too but for some reason I don't pay as much attention to it :P)

Meanwhile: Sam puts his foot in his mouth implying to Cas that the angels sort of deserved what was coming to them (which is a fair opinion but maybe don’t tell Cas if you think that :P)

The following orders thing tends to go pretty far with angels when you throw in brainwashing (and how Cas was already at this point many many layers of reprogrammed by Naomi since she refers to doing it to him in Biblical times, so if he felt bad about this it may have been hammered back out of him for a while after) but Ishim really is kind of being presented as a total dick about it in a sort of unrepentant way that paints a target on him as a rightful character to feel deserves it, while though Cas and the others were following orders and enforcing their society's rules that they never questioned (and would be killed if they questioned too hard or lost faith in the power structure) and in COMPARISON to Ishim who is being used as a scapegoat by the story, clearly are less deserving of punishment, especially Cas who has learned SO HARD in many ways what is right and wrong (though this seems to be a big hurdle he has left). It makes it a bit unfair to only have left the most symapthetic angel by a billion miles compared to any of the others, because we've been so far with him, and Ishim, who has clearly not changed a jot :P

Sam says Cas is "different now" :3

Clearly the easiest way out is to be like, "look Cas is now married to Dean so OBVIOUSLY has changed his ways" and honestly Captain Sam of the SS Destiel, I'm not sure he's not suggesting it.

Cas talking about how she "won't quit" to avenge her family reminds me that this is a plot we have had before, with whatsisface in 10x02 coming back for Dean. I also watched 7x03 last, with Amy Pond's poor son who vowed vengeance on Dean and disappeared to grow up some more and honestly season 7 is now so long ago he MUST be ready to come kill Dean but here we are with Cas finally having it happen to him :P Oh the Dean and Cas story overlaps :')

I really really really love Lily Sunder and her actress is great :D That healing scene was, no pun intended, SO CHARGED.

(little bit of a pun intended)

(Kinda sad after seeing the flashback I can't write her and Cas as lesbians :P)

Meanwhile in Cas's healing scene - weird shades of 8x17 and Cas and Meg, with the way Cas is tending to an ambiguous friend with a history (Wait. Same director? Yeah, same director), and clearly caring about him enough to heal him (didn't heal Meg magically and I've always suspected angel magic is a bit of a blunt weapon that would had smote her if he'd tried, even if he meant no harm >.>) - something about Cas's face while he tends to him, especially, because he's poking around instead of just flinging some glowy light at him, which makes this whole set up of playing nurse, which Cas never normally has when healing people since he just puts his hand on them and fixes them. It's automatically a much more tender, intimate scene. If this was Dean and Cas, people would spontaneously combust.

God damn this episode is doing some amazing things with inverting and playing with gender and stuff

Ishim has to ruin it by complaining about Cas letting the 'simians' talk to him...

"When did you get so gooey" I mean really, this is so seductive the way he's lying there and Cas is messing around with taking off his clothes? He and Lily had very similarly placed wounds for this parallel... but.

But yeah, calling Cas "gooey" really, really sounds like Meg.

oh god this speech from him...

"You know why we're meant to stay away from humans? It's not because we're a danger to them. They're a danger to us."

UGH

Brb

/rain /shrieking

etc

If this episode has not already confirmed on at least 3-4 occasions already that Cas is totally in love with Dean I don't even know what it's for :P

"My friendship with Sam and Dean has made me stronger" "You can't really believe that" NO AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW.

Dean needs to do the whole boombox held up outside Cas's window love declaration and fix this >.>

I mean it is true that Cas is stronger, infinitely, than when we first met him, because of all he's been through for Sam and Dean, but... He doesn't see it :<

I think it's stopped raining so if I need to shriek I don't know where to go

I LOVE that after Cas is done healing the ding from the elevator overlaps him fixing Ishim and almost seems like a microwave ding telling us he's ready.

The fact this is about someone killing angels (never mind the Uriel reference) really does make the plot mirror 4x16 on Cas's side; that episode ditches Sam and Dean not long past the halfway point to become completely about angel drama and Cas's decision... Nice.

Lots of Edlund mirroring this season.

"Then we burn that bridge when we come to it" HAH. :D Love that messed up idiom so much. It's such the Winchester way.

I love how they just walk into Lily in the corridor.

"We don't wanna kill you" "I don't want to kill you" "Okay! Good, look, there we go, agreed" Sam you fucking third wheel master level dork. He's been mediating so many fights that even when he's in the middle of one as a participant he takes on this role :P

Also aaaaaaaah saying Cas is their family. I mean it gets said a fair few times, but it's always so lovely to hear it coming out of Dean's mouth.

Oh my god Alicia Witt is amazing

*looks around for something to scream into*

*picks Mittens's chat bubble since the sky is not in the right setting*

Love triangle plot twist!

Which I probably should have seen coming if I wasn't comparing what Ishim said to Cas so much that I forgot he was also saying it about himself. I sort of dimly registered it without thinking it would apply to something immediate :P

I guess now we know Cas has been super lied to he's even more blameless (in the narrative) for acting out orders that were wrong, aka basically all the Heaven nonsense where the angels get manipulated. LIKE 4x16 WHERE HE HAD BAD ORDERS TO ASK ALISTAIR WHO WAS KILLING ANGELS... Now it's WHY she's killing angels (showing again in 2 words how the show has changed in tone :P) Anyway... because they were clearing up Ishim's petty family feud for him in an abuse of power, it makes the other angels victims of Ishim's choice, especially now Lily is killing them for it.

I wonder if her research ended up with the MoL because it's always been a weird question of how they had so much info about research on angels and if this is clearing up a weird thing from 9x11, well... Robbie's being taken to the cleaners this episode on a few things already :P There’s literally so much going on I haven’t managed to cover it all.

ANYWAY everyone's in love with humans, and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

What is this episode even saying about Cas.

I mean I know what I will interpret it as saying but

Yockey, explain yerself

"I loved you" "You were obsessed with me, that isn't love" Oh dear, we're getting into details about what is and isn't love now.

You know, like the whole "love and... love" distinctions.

angel love triangle drama is so tense.

"You are powerless" So she goes and becomes the Most Powerful Ever - a human literally on the level of angels, or BETTER than them, to get her revenge. Nice.

I really love Lily Sunder, and I thought I would because of the name, but yeah, good hunch about that. :P

"You broke my heart so I'm going to break yours" :< :< :< :<

....

TERRIBLE timing to bring it up, but... 6x20 > 6x22, Cas breaking Sam's wall to keep Dean out the way. >.>

Oh no the daughter was human... WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

This is like 1000% worse. I suppose for the previous stuff I was saying about it comparing to the Nephilim arc, Cas's guilt over this if/when he finds out will I suppose be a really heavy blow about Heaven's rules about Nephilim, since his obedience to them was used against him - and all the others who were in the dark - for this petty, evil revenge.

I like how Dean is just "he's a tool" about Ishim and phones Cas to... check Ishim is a big old tool?

Letting Cas know while he's alone with Ishim seems like a great way to flip from hunting Lily to needing her to help save Cas and get revenge on Ishim :P

Also I suppose Ishim turning on Cas (I hope but AAAH NOO CAS) would be a good way to convince Lily he's not evil/complicit if Ishim is having problems with him.

Heh, Sam's being left with Lily and Dean goes to check on Cas. What a wild surprise.

Oh dear, Cas is sassing Ishim which means even Cas knows he's contemptible now. The "oh goodie" sounds like Cas in the same room as CROWLEY. I suppose we're meant to assume Ishim stole his phone as well now

This would be a very good time to address that Lily can hack angel radio to message them but Dean doesn't think to pray?

Anyway Cas is not doing so great which seems to parallel that Lily healing herself seemed to really hurt her?

Can't believe they cover a plothole with Lily being like, nah, I just thought I'd wait and see what happened and if any of them came back to Earth I'd get them.

Then had the angel fall spell dropped in her lap.

It seems like there should be a way to bridge her research with Metatron and the fact he made up his own spells including potentially that one. Off the books angel know-how. Like the MoL have...

The show is never ever going to link this all up so it will just continue to bug me forever I guess :P I'm patient, I can wait over 100 years for more information to drop from the sky.

The fact the angel fall spell is connected to nephilim and has been mentioned a couple of times is making me reeeeally itchy in those old thumbs again

If Dabb wants a second crack at all that teasing, BE MY GUEST

Sam asking questions about magic... uhoh.

Nah, the price is soullessness, of a sort. Maybe becoming an angel? Is that possible? She might just burn out, hand of God style. Anyway Sam won't go for it. HE KNOWS THAT COST.

FOILED AGAIN. No witch!Sam this year.

Meanwhile: actually tearing at my own soul in horror about the fact she's burning away her soul to use angel magic and I am of the opinion Cas has a soul and HE does angel magic but... he's caring more and more?? Can you do this in reverse? Use up your angel grace and if you have a human soul waiting underneath, just reboot in a different operating system?

What the heck.

I need to eat more pasta. Can't deal with this.

But yeah the episode has made a big deal about human souls and angel grace, and suggesting how they can live in a body together, either with Lily slowly replacing her soul, or with the nephilim having both naturally... Cas of course is an abomination.

(sorry Cas, your own words will eventually always come back to bite you :P)

Oh no, Lily's reached the stage where she doesn't dream any more :( Oh no Lily.

Lily is so good at patience. I love her. Although argh it's because she's got the emotional room to wait. Less soul to worry her. She just has to hope she reaches the end goal before she runs out of caring for it, or that her robo-self like Soulless Sam did, will carry on the "job" they define themselves by without emotionally caring for why they do it - also very Mark of Cain-y, taking on a thing like that to fling themselves at the target without a care for what happens to them in the process...

I'm guessing by now that Ishim has done something to Cas to make him weak :<

I did the "AAH OTP INTERACTING" fist pump when Dean rushed over to Cas all urgent and worried, and now Dean's just... like. Holding Cas. Help. I think I dislocated a finger making frantic handwaving :P

My arm legit really hurts.

Oh god Ishim is making Cas choose between "heaven" aka Ishim’s shitty side, and Dean. Guess we're back at 9x22.

"Why do his words bother you so much, Ishim" Ooooooh

This is going to be so bitchy

so so bitchy

*Cas squints harder*

"Well it sees some of my choices may need to be questioned" if you HAVE to concede a fight with your husband, this is the most badass way to do it so that it still seems like you at least half-won :P

Aw Caaaas all the beating up on him from the promos we assumed Lily did were Ishim's fault.

Dean just needs to know a human girl was killed and that's it, he goes for Ishim with a knife :D ("You're not going to like the answer" says it all, by implying that Cas's love for humanity will of course be what makes him hate it... AAAH)

"I used to envy you, Castiel" was that because he WASN'T in love with a human and now that's changed? :P

Oh no, he "just" cites Cas being chosen by God, before pointing out he's now sad and weak. Ishim sees that love as weakness.

Also Cas getting straddled by Ishim goes with that weirdly erotic subtext from earlier when Cas was healing him.

:< Cas lying there miserably after being beaten into submission. Now this has shades of 10x22 at the end - Ishim in the place of Dean - are we working through THAT trauma too... I am not up to this. Ow.

10x22 getting a little revisit (OH CAS NO) followed by Ishim saying he's going to go "cut out Cas's human weakness" by going to kill Dean

paralleled directly to how he KILLED HIS HUMAN LOVER

I also thought from “cut out” it was going to be a reverse 8x23, and Ishim would split his throat and literally take something from Cas, like a SOUL or something. Then he said about himself, but split second panic there.

no biggie this is only literally THE MOST DESTIEL SHIT TO HAPPEN IN YEARS

HOLY CRAP then Dean picks CAS over banishing Ishim when he shows Cas is Dean's weakness too i

am probably burning my dinner in the oven

Yay hi Lily

KILL HIM

YAY more teamwork

I love when they do the teamwork thing. It’s a reoccurring theme this season, or maybe Yockey just likes it because 12x06 had the best teamwork ending.

AAAH LILY

This parallels 4x16 and Sam vs Alistair almost directly in staging

Except then Cas backstabs Ishim

he had it coming :P

Oh god and then Cas is on his knees, I mean, he drops to them because he's weak but it also puts him in a penitent position in front of Lily

LOOK AT MY BEAUTIFUL BLOODSTAINED SON

This also mirrors 4x16 and how he was on his knees in front of Uriel, the real threat of the episode for him.

I guess she decides not to kill Cas

Nice.

Oh look at poor Cas sitting there :(

I love that even though Lily's threat was she'd be beyond emotion, Dean tries to make this about revenge and killing some more to handle what next, but Cas goes straight to "i'm sorry" and Lily looks genuinely moved

Oh CAS you're so good.

And Lily thanks him and walks off :')

Oh dear, some over-running the episode length into a scene at the Bunker

Awww Dean giving Cas a beer and a shoulder pat and secret loving shoulder stroke. Dude. Someone needs to gif that in slow mo.

Oh god they're actually giving Cas a REAL you're family speech without any reasons to cut this short or make it not feel good

Sam's there too despite this having been all about Dean and Cas, just to smooth things over. :P

"I'm not mad I'm worried" Oh man all this stuff in the main text sucks because I deduced this back at the start through clever analysis of their dialogue and now what I can tell from this line is that... Dean is worried about Cas.

Look at their eyes

Waaah

Cas still looks beat up which is rare for him not to immediately snap back to normal. I worried.

Heh, Cas hasn't changed that much - all that and he still has carefully set separate rules for each situation, and KNOWING that Lucifer's baby really is Lucifer's, well... Unless he's been lied to about HOW dangerous Nephilim are... He still thinks he has a point.

Sam tries to compare scenarios

And Cas says he doesn't know what he'll do or if he'll hesitate. It HAS affected him. YAY. Episode’s goal accomplished in the final moment.

Okay this is clearly a motto of the ENTIRE show: "let's drink, and hope we can find a better way"

Can't believe Dean and Cas are married.

#12x10 #Yockey fanclub #season 12 spoilers #my stuff #general content warning for musing on the Nephilim plot nonsense

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