#force sensitive finn pulled out of jj's ass was stupid enough

[winterswake]

please tell me sabine is not force sensitive i'm tired of this stupid shit

[coe-lilium]

TroS reaction (1st view)

Necessary premise in bullet points:

- I liked TFA when it came out and still do but as I dug into the franchise/canon (Disney only by choice) my enjoyment of it became more lukewarm. Came out of it dreading a potential Reylo but liking the two charas on their own. 

- went into TLJ worried I’d hate it, came out with it being my favorite saga movie and sold on the Rey-Ren connection, whatever road it would’ve taken. Loved the “Rey’s powerful on her own/bc the Force wants to set Kylo’s wrongs right”. It felt good after two years of being bombarded with “this fucking Mary Sue can have any power only if she’s connected to powerful men of the saga, she has otherwise no right in being powerful” in forums spaces.    

- went into TroS non-spoiled, wary of Palpatine return but relatively hopeful if soured about the “JJ our lord and saviour pleease save us from evil evil Jonhson” (HA!). The rumors about lore from the tv series being featured into the movie had me excited.  

That said, here goes: [SPOILERS FOR THE ENTIRE MOVIE, ENDING INCLUDED, RIGHT OFF THE BAT]

I didn’t like it. I really hope to warm up to it more in future views, there’s absolutely stuff I liked or even loved, but as it stands now it was overall a massive disappointment on many sides and -worst of all- threatens to retroactively ruin my enjoyment in other previous stories. 

First, the positives: 

- Parentage notwithstanding, Rey was good. Her rage, her fears, her good heart, her commitment to the fight and the training, her longing for guidance… truly, if the bloodline revelation hadn’t retroactively ruined my investment in the character and themes I’d have fully, 100% loved her even if every single other part of the movie had been the same. 

Except for a brief war flashback to Starkiller game abilities (I lolled) I wasn’t even troubled by all the new abilities or their scope. Movies’ been inventing new powers since the beginning and the Force does what the Force wants. Again, fuck the genetics “twist”, garbage stuff. 

- Kylo, next to… 95% that involved him? TLJ did a great job selling him to me and surprisingly this movie added to that instead of retconning it away. More competent but still stupid and petty from time to time. I’m glad he came back, glad he choose right and glad he was allowed more time on the right side than Anakin. I love redemptions and he was portrayed as wavering the entire trilogy, I don’t even really care that it could’ve done better. I’m happy for him and his family, that’s all. The kiss got a laugh out me but not a malicious one, I was kind of running out of reasonable reactions by then. 

I’m just conflicted on how I feel about his death. Back when TFA was released I wanted him to survive to face what Anakin didn’t: justice (the kid-friendly setting prevented a death sentence anyway), atonement and growth from there, I still wish it happened and maintain that a different pacing would’ve allowed it. On the other hand, I’m also kinda okay with him dying. He righted at least a bit of his many wrongs, he saved a person he cared for, that his parents cared for and that could help the galaxy much more than he ever could and he was at peace. It was a good death.      

- Kylo’s vision/illusion of Han. A surprise but a very pleasant, well acted one. Would’ve I maybe liked Anakin more, as Ben idolized him so much and for all the wrong reasons and because I love that disaster? Yes. Does Han work much better in the economy of the movie and trilogy story and do he and Ben have a much rawer relationship and history? Absolutely. I am a teeny tiny bit baffled as  for why Luke didn’t also show up, but the actual scene was good enough I forgive it.  

- Rey and Kylo bond and connection was one of the saving graces of this mess and I utterly loved it. Both actors worked their asses for for all their scenes and it payed off, oh if it payed off. Their DSII duel was perhaps a tad long but great nonetheless (Republic era Jedi jumps!), the hurt and the sense of absolute loss and grief they both conveyed -and shared!- after Leia’s passing was incredible, Rey regretting the near kill and softly going “I would have stayed, had you renounced the dark side”. She cared, yes, but not to the point of ignoring the horrors (something Anakin never quite understood). The “dyad” stuff was a bit overkill, just call it a force bond, we can see it’s freaking powerful, but the Force Skype and sharing of objects that came with the package, that I loved. Surprise lightsaber, Ren fuckers! :D Bet Anakin and Obi Wan were really jealous, that would’ve come in handy during the war.       

- Finn was now fully invested in the cause, at ease, visibly happy to be with his friends, ready to bond and reach out, quick to plan, to act and to adapt to the situation, brave but cautious and calculating. I wish it was given a bit more focus, but I loved he found other young FO defectors. Also fuck yeah, he’s force sensitive and his ability is used, not just thrown in as a useless wink. Jedi Finn in future material, c’mon!

- Poe’s also grown. He was probably going to have more screen time with Leia had Carrie not died but there was nothing to be done for that. I’m not as happy as for previous 3 charas for the backstory retcon I’ll tackle in the negatives.

- Jannah was cool, the addiction of other FO defectors a welcomed one and the scene were she and Finn excitedly went over their “I broke free” moment was adorable. Good bean, I’d read more about her and her company. 

- A bit lot annoyed at Bloodline being kinda tossed outta the window but getting Leia with lightsaber was nice. Give me some ancillary material to deal with the clash and I’ll fully forgive it. 

- Jedi! MY GIRL AHSOKA MY MAN KANAN! I mean, I sure wish they were in a better movie, but hey, recognition for something more than the OT? No slandering of the Order but all of them collectively kicking Sidious ass once and for all? I’ll gladly take it. Anakin, my dude, I’m sorry your sacrifice was next to nullified but it was good to hear you again ;_;  I didn’t hear Ezra’s voice anywhere so I can still hope he’s alive, well and with the Ascendancy teaching all their Navigators. “I am all the Jedi” remains a terrible line. 

And now, oh boi. Here comes the long list of annoying - bad - stinking shit stuff: 

- If I wanted to watch a 2 and half long videogame cutscenes I’d have done that in the comfort of my home without spending money for tickets. Go to level x to retrieve related macguffin, move to next level to get next macguffin and so on and so on. I liked close to everything in the DS II sequences, but what would’ve that dagger pointed at if the wreckage had fallen even a little bit differently?   

In general, many plot points gave me the feeling they were stolen from the tv series and badly executed, like a mockery (or incompetence?). Case in point: Hux betraying the 1st Order out of personal, spiteful hate? Potentially good! The execution? A poor man’s Rebels Agent Kallus, already over in little more than 5minutes. 

- Palpatine himself is a poorly, ridiculously poorly executed Maul resurrection storyline from tcw and rebels. 

Because Maul was 1. explained and 2. got a good, long arc that made you forgive the undoubtably contrived ass-pull it took to bring him back while Sidious is just… there. You gotta accept it because the writer said so. 

How did he survive? We don’t know and fuck you if you expect an explanation (they really had the absolute galls to have him say the iconic/meme line from Rots and apparently it was supposed to be enough?!) How could he “have all Sith reside inside me” when canon’s clear that Sith do-not-get-to-retain-their-individuality-in-the-Force, do not work well together (lmao) and he as an individual never gave a shit about the Sith except when they could serve his own personal desires? His entire approach to the rule of two and other Sith stuff is “fuck that noise, everything in the galaxy exist to serve me”. He’s fine dying as long as “the Sith rule”? Who IS this character, because he’s not Darth Sidious (as presented in Disney’s own canon, mind). Oh, you wanted explanations? FUCK YOU, screams the movie. 

The mess gets somehow salvaged in the end as he comes to his senses and siphon the life out of Rey and Ben to de-rotten/revive himself to rule in person, now *that* was in character. Was he actually lying his ass off the entire time waiting for the moment he could siphon them? Hopefully but who the hell even knows.

In the end it just wasn’t worth bring him back. A holocron, a different Sith, even a hive-mind of old records/tainted wraiths of Sith (perhaps wearing Palps face to buy the old empire aficionados loyalty, idk) would’ve been better than “actually, Anakin suffered nearly his entire life and sacrificed himself for barely more than 25 years of peace and it still wasn’t enough to rid the galaxy of the monster who destroyed his and countless other lives”. But Johnson was the one shitting on beloved characters legacy and accomplishments, uh? Surely at least he’s got company. 

Ian was clearly having a blast, so there was… that? And the initial sequence being legit creepy and the Sith storm or whatever the fuck was that. That can stay, it was cool.     

- Poe, the latino character, got retconned from former Republic pilot (a backstory established before TFA came out and faithfully respected ever since) into a smuggler and gang member. Classy. What does Lucaslfilm have a story group for if not for stopping stuff like this from happening? Bonus Zorii being used for a “no homo! homo? no homo?” wink wink and for generally being a poor man Solo’s Qi’ra.   

- The movie makes you worry for a character death three (3) times in a row only to immediately backpedal on it. The survivors are grieving, the scene is sober… and then suddenly! they’re alive! isn’t it wonderful? let’s insert a comical scene now that we’re at it! Sigh.   

- The whole Threepio stuff was a contrived waste of time in a movie already full of more relevant plot treads that could’ve put that screen time to better use. 

- Rey’s parents apparently aren’t assholes anymore bc they sold her into slavery to protect her from Sidious, which is… supposed to make it alright, a sacrifice in the name of love? If they had been shown trying to give her to a trusted person and then she was kidnapped that wouldn’t had been their fault, just unfortunate, but the movie shows them leaving their 5yo daughter with her in-all-but-name slaver so?? 

- Rey Palpatine… Rey. Palpatine. Gesù Cristo benedetto che minchia mi è toccato di vedere. That hurt. That was so hilariously over the top bad I just…I started laughing. On top of the entire thing, thank you so, soo much for validating all those fucking assholes who demanded Rey be connected to a powerful man in the saga to accept her powers and value, you hack. Jedi were never about power of blood and then you went and reinforced the very opposite. She ain’t powerful bc the Force recognized her as worthy to stop evil and chose to aid her anymore, she’s powerful bc grandfather was. Lovely stuff. Hilariously, now she has a lot more legit “Mary Sue” traits than before. 

- Rose’s sidelining was a blatant bow to her and her actress haters whims. If in VIII she jumped at the chance of action, now she was fearful and “had to stay behind” studying maps. Fuck that noise. 

- Even if she rejected it, underline is that the Skywalker line is wiped out and the Palpatine one thrives. I… just… wtf wtf wtf. A final “Just Rey” would’ve been more powerful -because now it would’ve been reclaimed- and less corny and in poor taste than a Palpatine taking on the Skywalker name. I’m not sure if Sidious is more offended or if he’s laughing his ass off in space!hell. Probably the 2nd. Bad.      

- The final scene on Tatooine. It rang so empty because the planet brings warm memories only to the audience, not the characters. In-universe, that place brought nothing but misery to the Skywalkers: Anakin and Shmi were brought there as slaves and lived as such for years, Shmi was tortured to death and Anakin began his descent into the dark for crying out loud. Luke had to hide and saw his relatives murdered. Leia had no connection whatsoever to the place. The mera idea of burying Anakin Skywalker lightsaber into the sands of Tatooine and considering it a way of paying respect is… I don’t know, hilariously in bad taste? Rey, dear, what did you have personally against the guy? Put those sabers to rest on Naboo! Ah, but we can’t truly acknowledge the PT now, can we? Wack.   

- It’s not TroS complete fault, that “honor” mostly sit at TFA’s feet but for all its omages, copies and almost slavish references, from a in-universe point of view it’s like the OT barely occurred. 

The same evil man has been defeated (until next time?), the Republic must be rebuilt from scratch, a evil military is all over the place and must be dealt with, the Jedi Order has to be rebuilt… it’s depressing. A new evil taking advantage of the empire leftovers would’ve been one thing, but Sidious? He’s been effectively winning nonstop ever since he was elected Chancellor. He had all the power, all the influence, all the control and he maintained it all even as a rotten corpse in exile, the entire galaxy marching on his tune, controlled by his strings. And as the cherry on top of the cake he even managed to wipe out the family that could’ve, should have been his undoing! He effectively destroyed the Skywalkers. He outlived every Jedi, every survivor, every clone. I hate this. It’s sickening. I can’t even be happy Rex was on Endor anymore.      

In general, the best word I can find for this movie is: coward. 

So blatantly desperate to please, to be “forgiven”, to reference every single irrelevant thing -except the PT and the TV series in a intelligent way-, to throw fanservice after fanservice after fanservice no matter how nonsensical from all over that crossed the “corny” to wander into embarrassing territory many times over (Maz giving Chewie a medal outta nowhere? Come the fuck on now). 

The cartoon series had twenty time the guts of this movie and I vehemently wish for Filoni to take the helm of the entire creative team in a very near future.                  

[lunafeather]

judeehopps replied to your post “If anyone else has seen The Last Jedi already and wants to discuss,...”

I’m curious about what you think. What did you think of it? I have mixed feelings...

Overall I enjoyed it a lot, but it did have a lot of issues. I think I liked The Force Awakens a lot more, so I’m glad that JJ Abrams will be directing Episode IX and not Rian Johnson, though obviously Abrams isn’t perfect. This film also continues Star Wars’ penchant for gorgeousness; so many scenes and shots were absolutely breathtaking in their beauty. This might be my favorite film when it comes to that.

Spoilers below the cut! (Also, fair warning! I have a lot of thoughts)

I wasn’t a fan of the limited interactions between our main trio, especially Finn and Rey -- whose relationship literally drives the narrative of this trilogy. Don’t get me wrong, that hug at the end literally made me squeal with joy it was so pure and sweet, but that is seriously all we got and like??? I DO ship Finnrey but I also just enjoy watching their friendship so this was a major downside.

Speaking of ships, I am VERY anti Rose/Finn. I feel like the kiss at the end of the film was incredibly forced and awkward, and came out of nowhere. They have okay chemistry, but I didn’t get a romantic vibe from them at all, so for her to swoop in with this huge romantic gesture and pull out the “I love you” before passing out was very out of place. I feel like they barely know each other, and Rose’s feelings are heavily impacted by her initial view of Finn as this Rebel Hero, and that her jump from awe to fury to love is just a natural progression of her fangirling, and not actual love. Not to mention the fact that Finn literally just froze when she kissed him, it wasn’t reciprocated at all. I hope that they have an adorable “WOW that was awkward” moment in the next film but that they remain friends only.

I really enjoyed Rey’s arc over the film. I think she is more powerful than we realize and I really hope we get to see that power as she trains to be an actual jedi (I’m sure we will). I also really enjoy her parallel’s to Luke in that she is insistent that Kylo can be turned and tries to sway him against her mentor’s wishes, that she is just SO GOOD inside (I, like others, was afraid they may try to tease her switching to the dark side, but I’m glad this film just reiterated how good she is), but I also love that where Luke succeeded, Rey did not. I think it would be very predictable and boring for Rey to “save” Kylo the way Luke “saved” Vader.

Branching off of that, the trailers had a lot of people spouting that whole, “ohhh this is just another copy cat/rehash of Empire, just like TFA was identical to ANH” (which is bullshit anyway, TFA had many homages to ANH but the story was different in a few key ways) crap that I am glad was destroyed immediately. All this chatter about the AT-ATs and the rebels trying to escape a base and Degobah and blah blah blah. None of it was founded, the film was actually VERY different from ESB. Which isn’t necessarily a good thing.... but I digress.

I am a tad miffed that Finn’s force sensitivity wasn’t touched on AT ALL. As far as I’m aware, someone has to be force sensitive to use a lightsaber and Finn used Luke’s at the end of TFA. I hope they touch back on that in Episode IX.

A big thing I am distressed about is the fact that one of the original trio is basically going to be killed off in each film. Han in TFA, now Luke in TLJ, and obviously Leia will need to be killed off in Episode IX... It’s really fucking depressing. Part of me hopes that they will write IX in a way that Leia doesn’t need to die but never appears on screen -- I feel like of the three, she would be the one to survive. It’s possible, narratively, but I doubt they’ll do that. Still.... Also, seeing as Luke became one with the force or whatever, I feel like he will train Rey from beyond, the same way Obiwan often advised him after his death. So maybe we’ll at least have that.

Upon further reflection, I feel like the Casino excursion was very misplaced and unneeded. It was hectic and rushed and urgent, the whole movie was, and I wasn’t a huge fan of that. Star Wars movies ebb and flow with their pace, usually taking place over a moderate amount of time, but obviously this film had a very short time span and I gotta say, I’m not digging it. I prefer the story building, character building pace of the other films.

Humor was out of place a lot of times. The other movies were funny, yes, but the humor in this one was much too....modern? Even in TFA the humor was more classic, in this film it was annoyingly snappy. I really hated the opening scene and its “joke” with Poe pretending he couldn’t hear Hux. Hux should be scary and looming and menacing but that scene just made a fool out of him, and for that to be the OPENING scene is just.... no. Turned me off immediately. Some of the humor was spot on, like Chewie being watched by the family/friends of the bird thing he was trying to eat. THAT was good. Even Rey knocking that giant piece of rock over the cliff and annihilating those aliens’ cart of stuff was good. But most of the other humor was off.

My favorite moment/shot, and I’m sure it’s a lot of people’s, was Holdo hyperspacing into Snoke’s ship. Everything about that was GLORIOUS. The quick burst shots of the lightning blue spikes cracking the ship, the DEAD SILENCE -- no music, no sound effects, nothing -- until the delayed noise of the explosion, I was AWED. The ENTIRE THEATRE gasped and then hushed in the same awed silence as myself. What an amazing idea and execution.

Other favorite shots, Kylo and Luke standing on opposite sides of the screen, waiting to battle -- the colors and composition were beautiful. Crap, there are more but I can’t remember them now.

Mother fucking LEIA ORGANA, using the force to survive being blown into space. SHE DID THAT, Y’ALL. Do you have any idea how powerful she has to be to do that kind of shit??? I seriously thought they were gonna kill her off.

Luke Skywalker being a sassy shit during his astral projection gave me so much life. I love him.

I’ve seen a lot of disparaging comments about Yoda showing up but I actually liked that bit. I think it was one of the times when the humor was on point, and they had to have used a puppet because he looked great.

After a lot of discussion with my ex, we came to the conclusion that Leia must have known Luke wasn’t really there at the old rebel base. Initially I thought it was a vision/wonder twin connection like Kylo and Rey were having (which..... wtf???? Why was that happening? Could it not?) but then everyone else saw him so.... still, I think Leia knew it wasn’t really him. I think that’s why she didn’t touch him/hug him -- because they are VERY huggy twins -- and why she left Han’s dice behind. I think she knew she wouldn’t see him again, which breaks my heart. Because how alone is Leia now? She lost the love of her life, she lost her son, she lost her brother. Ughhhh.

So yeah, this stupid “connection” between Rey and Kylo the film was trying to force on us just.... irked me. I have heard that R*ylos are fangirling over the movie, which boggles my mind because Rey literally hates his guts?? She was disgusted by his naked chest and demanded he clothe himself?? She literally tried to save him because she’s a good person, not because he’s ever done anything to deserve it or because there’s some kind of “love connection” there?? He fucking mind raped her, guys. He almost killed the first person to ever COME BACK FOR HER. (again, why did this movie focus on the Rey/Kylo shit when there is a goldmine with Rey/Finn??????) Oh he’s also a fucking pyscho murderous asshole who killed Rey’s friend and hero in cold blood.

Anyway.

Snoke as a villain: Disappointing. Boring. Anticlimactic. I pity that we didn’t get backstory on him, though I suppose we never got any for the Emperor until the prequels. Still.... Snoke was a very thin and half assed master villain. Shouldn’t there be waaaaaaaaay more lore about the Knights of Ren? Is that going to come into play in Episode IX, seeing as Kylo is now the Supreme Leader? Also, how the fuck am I supposed to take Kylo seriously as the next major villain when he continues to throw temper tantrums and be easily manipulated by outside forces?

On that note, did he choose to spare Leia because of that conflict inside of him, or did Leia force sense him and mind influence him to not shoot?? WE’LL NEVER KNOW.

Second to last point: Not enough Chewie.

Final point: I liked the examination of perspective. Luke’s story of what happened the night Kylo went crazy, Kylo’s story, and finally the truth. How we twist things to feel better/to get what we want. How every story is biased. I thought that was neat.

I lied, one last thing: I am on the fence but leaning towards hating Rey’s parents being “nobodys”. I think it’s an interesting choice but not one that lends anything to the narrative. I think the hype around her parentage was stoked just so they could say, “HAHA she actually isn’t anyone special, you were speculating for nothing!”. Speculating is fun. Bloodlines are fun. Let nerds discuss! A big part of me hopes that Kylo was lying to Rey to make her more upset and thus “more likely” to swing to the dark side. To encourage her fear that she really was abandoned for no reason. BUT it would also be unique to have her be so special despite coming from nothing.

Alright, I’m done. I may think of more but that’s it for now. My rating would probably be like.... 6.5/10. In the top 5 but not the top 4. Enjoyable and beautiful but nothing special and a let down in regards to story and character development.